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Biggest change in opinion regarding anything Bond-y?

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  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Samuel001 I'd have to strongly disagree with you. CR was a wonderful use of Craig and Craig was wonderful in it. Shows not only what a more character based script can do, but what a great actor can do with his choices. And CR certainly used his physicality well in the action scenes.

    Apparently I'm not alone in my opinion - Craig was nominated for a BAFTA for CR.
    Don't get me wrong, Daniel Craig is the sole, best thing about Casino Royale, I just feel like the scripts could have given us more and allow Craig to shine even more as Bond. In that film the unnecessary ending and action sequences detract from what Craig could have given performance wise. Quantum Of Solace wasn't any better.

    This next film needs to really shake things up.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    The actor Daniel Craig like Pierce Brosnan shuldn't be left with working average movies but have their swansong everytime.
    Right you are @SaintMark. So far you could argue Craig has been as wasted with the series as Brosnan was. I really hope his talents are put to use in his remaining films - Craig is such as good actor it would be unforgivable not to.
    Craig was given countless opportunities to shine in CR, and took them completely. Even in QoS which barely slowed down long enough for Craig to draw breath, he had enough charisma to carry large parts of the film.

    As for Brosnan, I would argue that within his four films he was given ample opportunity to show what he was capable of. Despite an arguable 'handicap' of being so damned good looking he was given alot of scope to act and truly deliver. His films varied in quality, but so did Connerys, yet Connery was magnificent even when the films weren't.

    Brosnan's performances lacked focus. Never has it been more evident that movie scenes are never filmed in sequence. It's as if Peirce simply didn't follow the script and develop the character as he went along. Moments after losing Paris and killing Heir Doctor, he was goofing around with the remote control BMW like a kid with a toy. It just sits uncomfortably.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    Connery was magnificent even when the films weren't.
    Que?? All the Connery films are magnificient !! What are you on about ?? :-))

    As for Brosnan - he got better when each film got worse.
    GE: best film, worst Brosnan performance
    DAD - worst film, best Brosnan performance
    The exception is TWINE - Amazingly horrible performance from Brosnan and pathetic film.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    Craig has had one great film and one dud. My opinion on him is still relitively mixed and Id be lying if I said I've completely warmed to him in the part. One thing he lacks (which in my mind is crucial) is gentlemanly sophistication. The original character was a disciplined, sophisticated, experienced agent with a certain degree of Etonian poise.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    I honestly don't understand how I always agree with BAIN123's portrait of Bond and Bond movies... but seem to totally disagree on Pierce Brosnan and his movies !!

    But I disagree with you on CR. It is 21st in my ranking, with QOS 22nd.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    The original character was a disciplined, sophisticated, experienced agent with a certain degree of Etonian poise.
    I think this wasn't meant to be in the films though as it was Bond's beginning. We'll see more of this I think from Bond 23 onwards and Craig will really show us what he can do as James Bond!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Royale is #7 for me atm, its a great film but not quite a favourite...yet. Royale benifitted not only from Craig but from a director who could competantly blend drama AND action.
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    The original character was a disciplined, sophisticated, experienced agent with a certain degree of Etonian poise.
    I think this wasn't meant to be in the films though as it was Bond's beginning. We'll see more of this I think from Bond 23 onwards and Craig will really show us what he can do as James Bond!
    I agree with Samuel001. Starting with Connery's performance in Dr. No the "movie Bond" had sophisticated tastes but was also a two-fisted man's man. One of the many things I love about Craig's performance is that it's a throwback to that image. And I do think that he's perfectly credible when eating caviar and toast points after beating Le Chiffre at poker.

    I also agree with what Nic Nac says. Brosnan was given tremendous acting opportunities in his films. While I don't think that he ever gave a bad performance as such, he never took it to the next level like Craig. Compare the torture scenes in CR and TWINE. Or Bond's reactions to the death of a love interest in CR and TWINE (or TND). I think part of what differentiates Craig and Brosnan is their choices in line readings. Brosnan always seemed to go for the obvious, whereas Craig makes interesting choices that reveal a lot about the character. One of my favourite Craig moments was in CR when he puts a brave front up to M when shown Solange's body. When M says to him "I'd ask you to keep your personal feelings out of this, but that doesn't seem to be a problem for you, does it Bond?" his flat, matter-of-fact way of saying "No." was brilliant. So much character and meaning revealed in a single syllable! Not to be unfair to Brosnan but I would think he would have played the scene overly mawkish - a long, sad look at Solange, a look down to the ground as he thinks, and then "No." with heavy regret in his voice. We'll never know as he never got to do the scene but I think that would be in keeping with his other acting choices.

    I felt bad for whoever took over for Brosnan because he was such a star - I felt the same way about Tennant leaving Doctor Who. But both actors who took over those roles proved that acting chops can be even better than pure "star power", or *only* star power.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited June 2011 Posts: 11,189
    I felt bad for whoever took over for Brosnan because he was such a star - I felt the same way about Tennant leaving Doctor Who. But both actors who took over those roles proved that acting chops can be even better than pure "star power", or *only* star power.

    I agree with you there and I think "acting chops" AND "star power" are both very important when it comes to Bond. Craig has certainly proved he has both. I just can't (yet) put Craig above Pierce as Bond - despite his superior acting chops. Brosnan left SUCH a big impression on me and I genuinely picture him or Connery when it comes to imagining 007. Brosnan made me fall in love with James Bond - not Connery, Lazenby, Moore or Dalton.

    I think also its the fact that I wasn't very satisfied with Craig's last film. It was less entertaining than any of Brozza's efforts IMHO (yep, even DAD which at least had a few good action sequences and a potentially exciting story).

    I like Craig and certainly agree that he has potential but I just haven't "warmed" to him as of yet. However I agree that he was excellent in CR particularly.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    Brosnan made me fall in love with James Bond - not Connery, Moore.

    8-X
  • myworldisenoughmyworldisenough
    Posts: 1,143
    I really enjoyed the likes of DAD & QOS at first viewing in the cinema but the cracks appear more and more on each viewing. However movies I dismissed as a boy, such as FRWL and OHMSS are now amongst my favourites.
  • JBFan626JBFan626
    edited June 2011 Posts: 1,497
    CR is slipping down the ranks for me too. The opening scene is still phenomenal and probably one of the best scenes of the franchise. The action is top notch...but perhaps there is too much of it for the first 30 minutes of the film. Yeah, the free style running is cool, but then Body Works, then the airport scene, and then again with the Venice scene at the end....yawn. Some of the dialogue between Vesper and Bond starts to make me cringe now: their first meeting, or Vesper's "It feels like there’s blood on my hands and it won’t come off" WTF? And all that product placement is wearing thin on me and looks worse everytime I see the film. So Campbell isn't completely off the hook. That said, CR on the whole is still a satisfying Bond experience--once the movie really gets going after the first 30 minutes of action is over that is... It will be curious to see how CR holds up 20 years from now. 5 years in, it's not looking that great.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Great thread idea!

    Hmm, let’s think…. I rediscovered a list, when rummaging about one day, when Die Another Day came out, of my rankings…

    1. Twine
    2. FRWL
    3. TND
    4. GF
    5. DN
    6. GE
    7. DAD!
    8. TB
    9. Spy
    10. TLD
    11. OHMSS
    12. LTK
    13. OP
    14. FYEO
    15. YOLT
    16. LALD
    17. DAF
    18. AVTAK
    19. TMWTGG
    20. MR

    And here my list now…

    1. FRWL
    2. OHMSS
    3. LTK
    4. TLD
    5. CR
    6. DN
    7. Twine
    8. TB
    9. QOS
    10. GF
    11. TND
    12. OP
    13. FYEO
    14. GE
    15. Spy
    16. YOLT
    17. LALD
    18. AVTAK
    19. TMWTGG
    20. MR
    21. DAD
    22. DAF

    I used to love Conners and Brosnan, in fact I still do, but this has been levied up by my respect for Dalton and Lazenby, propelling the three films, between them, into my top five. I still have a very high esteem for Brosnan, but, as you can see, his films have slipped, not because of Brosnan, but from the packages he was given; i.e. too much action and not very good boner gags.

    A word for Sir Rog… My respect for him has grown enormously; from Spy to OP he carried those films, no other actor could off done better; and he convinced me when he was called to do some proper acting; the hotel scene in Spy and the Orlov train, in OP, scene come to mind.

    My appreciation for the films, and it was already high, has gone up. Take MR, languishing down in 20. I rate it a 7 out of 10. The OTT-ness and overt humour are still turnoffs but there are a plethora of strengths to compensate; Moore, Lonsdale, Barry, Tournier and Adam all spring to mind.


  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    Posts: 1,699
    I'm right there with you, @thelordflasheart. When I was 10 or 11, I remember going to the library and getting out - hmmm, think it was DAF - and discovering it really was too adult and serious for me and seemed to lack all the thrills, spills, humour and fun of the half a dozen or so Bond films I'd seen up to that point.

    Then at the age of 13, I read TSWLM (not necessarily Fleming's best, but nonetheless a good read) and it hooked me. After reading two or three more Flemings, a couple of years later I bought for myself a compendium of five more Fleming novels and that managed to completely turn my opinion around when it came to the literary 007.

    However, I still loved the films themselves for the thrills, spills, humour and fun - and always have. It's good to enjoy something that reminds you of how you felt as a child now and again, methinks... :)
  • ShorelineShoreline
    Posts: 251
    St George, you just said something there that really resonated with me.
    It IS always goog to enjoy something that reminds you of how you felt as a child.....
    I suppose thats something that keeps us adult Bond fans so passionate. Childhood is one of the most precious things, and Bond was part of mine.
    When I had the chance to meet Roger Moore, I was quick to tell him how many hours I`d spent in my youth trying to be him. He smiled on, like he`d heard it a billion times before, bless `im.
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    Posts: 1,699
    When I had the chance to meet Roger Moore, I was quick to tell him how many hours I`d spent in my youth trying to be him. He smiled on, like he`d heard it a billion times before, bless `im.
    Yep, when I met him and shared some words with him, he gave me a big grin - the sort that he no doubt had given many a fan before now, but it meant so much to me. He - and practically any Bond name who continue the publicity thing - know how much a part of fans' youth they and their past work is. It means a lot to them too, I suspect... :)
  • The_ReaperThe_Reaper
    edited June 2011 Posts: 1,092
    OHMSS has gone up a great deal for me. Didn't get it or like it much at all when I saw it first. Didn't hate it but it felt so strange to see Lazenby in his one film it took a few veiwings to appreciate the quality of the film and him in it. It is top ten for me now and will stay there for a long time I think.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    I used to enjoy OHMSS to a decent degree, but in the last four years or so, it's become my least favorite Bond movie of all time. In all honesty, both it and GF used to be enjoyable to me, but have now fallen to the bottom of my rankings.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited March 2014 Posts: 45,489
    Thanks for bringing this thread to attention, 00Beast. I had a very pleasant read and I wish @thelordflashheart and @DaltonCraig007 would rejoin us. Such colorful,fun and dedicated characters.

    My biggest change of opinion is about DN and FRWL, which I first saw on the big screen in 87, and thought they were slow and dull compared to later films. Never mind the colour palette, cinematography, performances or how true they were to Fleming. They are now among the best Bond films ever made imo. As for FRWL, I was a bit excused as we had a navy drill the night before and then the fire alert went off during the film, disturbing the experience. Funny thing is no one stood up and left, so everyone else must have really enjoyed it. I myself had fallen asleep, 20 y.o. brat that I was.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I think I would have to say mine is SF - first time I saw it, I really didn't like it, but I watched it more and more and started to enjoy it more and more (though part of me feels like I made myself like it because I waited four years for the film), and after it was released on blu-ray, I found myself liking it less and less once more.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Here are my biggest changes:
    DAF- my absolute favourite Bond for years. Today it's just a mindless fun flick.
    LTK- didn't think much of it in '89 due other films like Batman distracting me; today it's my #2.
    CR & QOS- Disliked CR and hated QOS on first viewings. Now I quite like CR & REALLY like QOS.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    edited March 2014 Posts: 4,762
    @Thunderfinger: No trouble at all! I enjoy reviving the old threads that have been lost in the shuffle of the forum. Some of the best discussions are hidden in the far rear of the site!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    00Beast wrote:
    @Thunderfinger: No trouble at all! I enjoy reviving the old threads that have been lost in the shuffle of the forum. Some of the best discussions are hidden in the far rear of the site!

    See what else you can find then. Or I should do it myself, lazy as i am. But thanks again.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Thunderfinger wrote:
    00Beast wrote:
    @Thunderfinger: No trouble at all! I enjoy reviving the old threads that have been lost in the shuffle of the forum. Some of the best discussions are hidden in the far rear of the site!

    See what else you can find then. Or I should do it myself, lazy as i am. But thanks again.

    I brought several old ones back to the forefront earlier this afternoon- about four, I believe.
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    I had some serious misgivings when Timothy Dalton took over the role. Then I got to see TLD and he has been one of my top Bond actors.

    I could say the same for Daniel Craig, until I saw CR. Except that I rushed to see CR while I was in no hurry to see TLD. I finally did and was blown away by the film and TD.
  • bigladiesmanbigladiesman
    Posts: 1,009
    Here's another fella who placed OHMSS at the bottom after watching it for the first time... Now it's a top-5.
  • josiahjosiah
    Posts: 1,386
    My biggest change of opinion regarding Bond would have to be with George Lazenby in OHMSS. Connery was my first Bond and at age 12 I was watching the Bond movies on tv because there was a marathon going on. I saw OHMSS for the first time right after seeing YOLT & I just kept shouting at the tv "YOU'RE NOT CONNERY! GET OFF THE SCREEN!!!" in several scenes. I don't think I even finished the movie at the time. More recently I had a Bondathon of my own & followed up YOLT with DAF and then watched OHMSS. Lazenby's performance was passable for me at that point and I was better able to appreciate all of OHMSS's strengths. I also purchased all the Fleming Bond books and short stories & read them all 2 yr. ago and after I read OHMSS I watched the movie and loved just how close the movie stuck to the novel compared to some others. In the last few years my opinion of OHMSS has shifted from being a movie I'd have easily placed no higher than 17 or 18 in a ranking to a movie that's easily in my top 10 now.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited February 2016 Posts: 15,716
    Reading previous posts in this thread, I seem to have had a huge change of opinion about TWINE.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    Ok this is a very old thread but i liked it and make it come back again.

    Anyway my biggest change of mind when it comes to Bond is Daniel Craig as Bond but the difference is that i never saw him in the trailer of Casino Royale or pictures before the film was released so when i went to see the film i thought take this man out the franchise now and please bring Pierce back.

    but with time ive warmed up to him and with Spectre he came to my third p,ace and while re watching his previous films now i do like him in all of them.

    At the beginnings i liked the films but not him and with time while the films were playing on tv and checking Youtube i have liked him much more.

    Pierce is still my favorite Bond, will always be and i love his 4 films. But now i like Craig very much too.

    Another change is my Ranking of Pierce's films

    At first i ranked them they wey they wererealsed but with many re watches ive come up to this ranking

    The world is not enough
    Goldeneye
    Die another day
    Tomorrow never dies

    Also my Bonds ranking have changed

    First was

    Pierce Brosnan
    Connery Sean Connery
    Timothy Dalton
    Daniel Craig
    Roger Moore
    George Lazenby

    Now its

    Pierce Brosnan
    Sean Connery
    Daniel Craig
    Timothy Dalton
    Roger Moore
    George Lazenby
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    My reassessment of Dalton has been the biggest change over the years. I thought he was useless before, but have warmed considerably to him, mainly thanks to Craig's similar steely approach.

    My second biggest reassessment has been of Dench. Hated her when she was in the role, but miss her a lot now strangely. I was too harsh perhaps. Come back Judi! All is forgiven. Even if it's only in another dvd performance.
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