Biggest change in opinion regarding anything Bond-y?

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,716
    Birdleson wrote: »
    As @Birdleson once said, Connery and Moore (the 2 longest serving Bond) are the only 2 actors to never have personal missions, go rogue, or let anything get under their skin.

    Yes. Connery did get irked at M (DN and GF), but those two never went rogue. Lazenby did when he went behind M's back and used Draco to invade Piz Gloria, Dalton did so famously in LTK, Brosnan in DAD and Craig in QOS.

    Yes, Connery/Moore had moment of emotions (as noted, Connery's reaction to Kerim's death, being angry at M, killing Grishka for 009), but those moments were over in a heartbeat, and they went back to their respective mission straight away.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Birdleson wrote: »
    As @Birdleson once said, Connery and Moore (the 2 longest serving Bond) are the only 2 actors to never have personal missions, go rogue, or let anything get under their skin.

    Yes. Connery did get irked at M (DN and GF), but those two never went rogue. Lazenby did when he went behind M's back and used Draco to invade Piz Gloria, Dalton did so famously in LTK, Brosnan in DAD and Craig in QOS.

    Yes, Connery/Moore had moment of emotions (as noted, Connery's reaction to Kerim's death, being angry at M, killing Grishka for 009), but those moments were over in a heartbeat, and they went back to their respective mission straight away.

    In the novel OHMSS, M is behind Bond's idea to go to Draco, but M "can't go to the P.M about it" - i.e, not officially sanctioned. But M gives Bond his blessing. He and Bond "didn't mind getting sacked, but we (M and Bond) don't want the Government mixed up in another U2 fiasco."

    Yet in the film Bond goes rogue. I suppose the "anti - hero" was in vogue in 1969. Having Bond disobey the "man". See, the Bond series was doing the "going rogue" aspect before anyone else in the spy genre. Bourne my ass.

  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    I wonder why that is? Perhaps the producers wanted Bond to be more proactive.
  • Posts: 1,631
    Used to think that LALD was one of the better Bond films. Over the last couple of years, I've gone from that to realizing just how awful it is.

    OP and AVTAK have made similar reversals, only going in the opposite direction.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 4,622
    royale65 wrote: »
    I wonder why that is? Perhaps the producers wanted Bond to be more proactive.
    I think its a subtle point. Bond definitely defys Bond's orders in OHMSS movie, although didn't he reach out to Draco in an unofficial capacity - more as future son-in-law?
    Technicality maybe.
    I'm thinking the filmmakers wanted to keep things simple ie have M uphold the official party line, yet have Bond display an independent utilitarian streak that boss M could not display.
    Later, make it clear, that M was not very arsed about Bond's decision, as long as Bond pulled it off, and didn't make M look bad.
    Anyway, for theatregoers, I think it all jived nicely. Bond's actions seemed very bold and clever, while M played his role too.
    We have seen M give Bond a little nudge-nudge wink-wink. Even in CR, Dench manipulated Bond into going to Bahamas, but avoided giving him the order.
    M has suggested Bond take holidays a few times with a nudge-nudge wink. This went down in the TMWTGG office briefing.
    There are probably other movie examples.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Obviously the 'going rogue' element has been done to death since DAD - but I remember LTK's whole thrust, particularly in publicity and marketing was 'he's gone rogue!' And that moment in LTK when he tenders his resignation to M was dramatic and it still holds up (I really like Robert Brown in this scene - his finest work in the role).

    But now Craig is resigning, going rogue, escaping British secret service capture, breaking into M's house, hacking Mi6 computers and playing dead all the time. So it's easy to forget how LTK was a break with a lot of what we had known and experienced as Bond fans up to that point.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    timmer wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    I wonder why that is? Perhaps the producers wanted Bond to be more proactive.
    I think its a subtle point. Bond definitely defys Bond's orders in OHMSS movie, although didn't he reach out to Draco in an unofficial capacity - more as future son-in-law?
    Technicality maybe.
    I'm thinking the filmmakers wanted to keep things simple ie have M uphold the official party line, yet have Bond display an independent utilitarian streak that boss M could not display.
    Later, make it clear, that M was not very arsed about Bond's decision, as long as Bond pulled it off, and didn't make M look bad.
    Anyway, for theatregoers, I think it all jived nicely. Bond's actions seemed very bold and clever, while M played his role too.
    We have seen M give Bond a little nudge-nudge wink-wink. Even in CR, Dench manipulated Bond into going to Bahamas, but avoided giving him the order.
    M has suggested Bond take holidays a few times with a nudge-nudge wink. This went down in the TMWTGG office briefing.
    There are probably other movie examples.

    Like MR and Bond's hankering to go to Rio, for example.

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,119
    royale65 wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    I wonder why that is? Perhaps the producers wanted Bond to be more proactive.
    I think its a subtle point. Bond definitely defys Bond's orders in OHMSS movie, although didn't he reach out to Draco in an unofficial capacity - more as future son-in-law?
    Technicality maybe.
    I'm thinking the filmmakers wanted to keep things simple ie have M uphold the official party line, yet have Bond display an independent utilitarian streak that boss M could not display.
    Later, make it clear, that M was not very arsed about Bond's decision, as long as Bond pulled it off, and didn't make M look bad.
    Anyway, for theatregoers, I think it all jived nicely. Bond's actions seemed very bold and clever, while M played his role too.
    We have seen M give Bond a little nudge-nudge wink-wink. Even in CR, Dench manipulated Bond into going to Bahamas, but avoided giving him the order.
    M has suggested Bond take holidays a few times with a nudge-nudge wink. This went down in the TMWTGG office briefing.
    There are probably other movie examples.

    Like MR and Bond's hankering to go to Rio, for example.

    I think that was a beautiful scene. Given that this was one of Lee's last moments on screen as M, I really like his affectionate "I know you're the best and I'm just going to trust you"-attitude of him towards Bond.

    "I think I can recall you mentioning it." Love that moment.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    As @Birdleson once said, Connery and Moore (the 2 longest serving Bond) are the only 2 actors to never have personal missions, go rogue, or let anything get under their skin.
    That's very true and I'm extremely thankful to both of them for that. That could be why they remain my two favourite Bonds!
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    I used to dislike Skyfall and found it totally boring.
    Now I detest Skyfall and find it utterly bland.

    I really do need to watch Skyfall again. I've only seen it once all the way through. I fell asleep on my second viewing attempt (granted, that was after a long day at work), so I think it might drop in my rankings too.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I used to dislike Skyfall and found it totally boring.
    Now I detest Skyfall and find it utterly bland.

    I really do need to watch Skyfall again. I've only seen it once all the way through. I fell asleep on my second viewing attempt (granted, that was after a long day at work), so I think it might drop in my rankings too.

    Except the PTS and the Macau Casino scene the film is an endless bore. And once Silva enters the screen it gets additionally annoying and borderline Bond parody like.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    royale65 wrote: »
    I wonder why that is? Perhaps the producers wanted Bond to be more proactive.
    I think its a subtle point. Bond definitely defys Bond's orders in OHMSS movie, although didn't he reach out to Draco in an unofficial capacity - more as future son-in-law?
    Technicality maybe.
    I'm thinking the filmmakers wanted to keep things simple ie have M uphold the official party line, yet have Bond display an independent utilitarian streak that boss M could not display.
    Later, make it clear, that M was not very arsed about Bond's decision, as long as Bond pulled it off, and didn't make M look bad.
    Anyway, for theatregoers, I think it all jived nicely. Bond's actions seemed very bold and clever, while M played his role too.
    We have seen M give Bond a little nudge-nudge wink-wink. Even in CR, Dench manipulated Bond into going to Bahamas, but avoided giving him the order.
    M has suggested Bond take holidays a few times with a nudge-nudge wink. This went down in the TMWTGG office briefing.
    There are probably other movie examples.

    Like MR and Bond's hankering to go to Rio, for example.

    I think that was a beautiful scene. Given that this was one of Lee's last moments on screen as M, I really like his affectionate "I know you're the best and I'm just going to trust you"-attitude of him towards Bond.

    "I think I can recall you mentioning it." Love that moment.

    I quite agree. Really touching scene between Bond and M. Such understated trust and respect. A quite fitting way to say goodbye to Lee's definitive M.

  • Posts: 1,386
    Lately the biggest change in opinion for me has been Octopussy. I had the movie in my bottom 5 when I came here--largely because of it having so many moments similar to earlier Bond films. I don't know if it's in top 10 territory for me yet, but it's definitely grown on me. The movie has a lot of plot elements taken from other Bond films but I think that can be said for many Bond films. Much like TND, OP sticks to established 007 formula but I just find myself enjoying the ride. Steven Berkoff and Jonathan Pryce just seem to relish playing these obsessive and driven villains that lend themselves so well to larger than life performances, the action scenes are so well done and the movies never seem to let up in terms of action. All of the elements come together so well in these movies that I find it very easy to overlook any problems the script/story might have. I don't always want to watch intricately plotted Bond films trying to re-invent the franchise. Sometimes I just want to see something that does the formula well--like Octopussy.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    In the last six months or so I've completely changed my stance on Pierce Brosnan; I used to loathe his Bond, but he's really sneaked up the charts.

    In fact, I'm currently placing the later three Bonds above the first three, and I never thought I would put johnny-come-latelys Brosnan and Craig ahead of Connery and Laz.
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    In the last six months or so I've completely changed my stance on Pierce Brosnan; I used to loathe his Bond, but he's really sneaked up the charts.

    In fact, I'm currently placing the later three Bonds above the first three, and I never thought I would put johnny-come-latelys Brosnan and Craig ahead of Connery and Laz.

    Welcome to the dark side.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    My initial opinions rarely alter very much. If I love a Bond film on first viewing it usually levels off and survives.

    Having said that, of the last two I was unsure of Skyfall on first viewing and loved Spectre. A couple of viewings later Spectre dropped, Skyfall went up and they have swapped over in my affections.

    Like @Agent_99 the recent Bondathon has made me see Brosnan in a different light and I was, on balance quite impressed with how he handled the role.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,119
    I've changed opinion massively on FYEO. Always thought of it to be quite dull, last time I saw it I was blown away how good it looks. Absolutely loved it. Top 5 now.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    I massively changed my opinion about OHMSS. I was not a fan for ages - and only quite recently re-discovered it and enjoyed it very much since then. For me, the Craig era paved way for this change of opinion.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,028
    My biggest change of opinion has been my appreciation of MOONRAKER. When it first came out in the cinemas in 1979, I found the idea of Bond going into space and shooting laser battles ludicrous and no more than an obvious, blatant rip-off of the STAR WARS craze, incompatible with my perception of the Bond character. I even refused to see it then and only watched it in the 90s, on VHS, for the very first time...not really liking it then, either. But it has grown on me over time to a degree I had not thought possible. It is now one of my favourite Moore films, about on par with LALD (that is meant positively) and poised to surpass TSWLM for me. It is good fun, has a far better villain and a much more capable actress for the Bond girl than its predecessor, brilliant cinematography and one of my favourite John Barry scores. It does descend into camp more than most, but then one just ought to resign oneself to the notion that it's really the closest thing to a spoof of all things Bond that is part of the official series. Relax and enjoy.
  • GBFGBF
    edited March 2017 Posts: 3,197
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I've changed opinion massively on FYEO. Always thought of it to be quite dull, last time I saw it I was blown away how good it looks. Absolutely loved it. Top 5 now.

    That is very nice to hear. Since you are a Dalton fan it is not surprising that you also like FYEO. I guess FYEO is Moore's best film but it would have worked very well with Dalton, too. I think it is quite similar to TLD in many ways:

    Both are more serious films that brought Bond down to earth again.
    Both have a plot twist with reard to the main villain.
    The henchmen do play a bigger part, especially in the first half of the film when it is not yet clear who the main villain is. Both henchmen die in a very memorable way.
    Both are Cold War thrillers and have adapted quite a big share from Flemming's novels.
    Both have some lighthearted actions scenes (Citroen chase vs. cello chase)
    Both rely on a European setting.
    Bond is more serious and is with reagard to the Bond girl more protective.
    The Bond girls are very essential to the plots and have a rich back story.
    A relatively high share of sacrificial lambs.






  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I've changed opinion massively on FYEO. Always thought of it to be quite dull, last time I saw it I was blown away how good it looks. Absolutely loved it. Top 5 now.
    I'm reassessing it more favourably these days as well. You're right that it looks absolutely fantastic on blu ray. I'm not too keen on the finale or the underwater Neptune sub section, but other than that I've really grown to like this film over the years.

    @GBF, it's interesting that you mention the parallels to TLD, because I was actually reminded of FYEO as I watched TLD a few nights back. They both are cut from the same cloth & are from the same universe.

    I've recently begun to look more favourably on Brosnan's contribution to Bondom. I've always thought he was a bit of a lightweight, but my disappointment with SP ( since that last film reminds me of a poor man's Brosnan entry) has made me reassess his tenure more favourably. He's much better than I remembered, although some of his acting idiosyncrasies & characterization continue to annoy me.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited March 2017 Posts: 7,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I've changed opinion massively on FYEO. Always thought of it to be quite dull, last time I saw it I was blown away how good it looks. Absolutely loved it. Top 5 now.
    I'm reassessing it more favourably these days as well. You're right that it looks absolutely fantastic on blu ray. I'm not too keen on the finale or the underwater Neptune sub section, but other than that I've really grown to like this film over the years.

    @GBF, it's interesting that you mention the parallels to TLD, because I was actually reminded of FYEO as I watched TLD a few nights back. They both are cut from the same cloth & are from the same universe.

    I've recently begun to look more favourably on Brosnan's contribution to Bondom. I've always thought he was a bit of a lightweight, but my disappointment with SP ( since that last film reminds me of a poor man's Brosnan entry) has made me reassess his tenure more favourably. He's much better than I remembered, although some of his acting idiosyncrasies & characterization continue to annoy me.

    I agree on both accounts. As I'm a Dalton defender I used to think I wasn't allowed to like Pierce. I've grown nostalgically fond of him however. Maybe it's the Mendes episodes that make me grow towards the fun of films such as GE. Also, I like how elegant Brosnan moves and dresses, a far cry from Craig in that regard.
  • GamesBond007GamesBond007 Golden Grotto
    Posts: 66
    The biggest changes occurred with age. I have always been a Brosnan/Connery fan, however their worst entries for me when I was younger were TWINE and Thunderball... more than 15 years later and those happen to be my favourite films from each actor.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited March 2017 Posts: 7,119
    Love both TB and TWINE a lot! Both top 8 for me.
  • GamesBond007GamesBond007 Golden Grotto
    Posts: 66
    @GoldenGun Great to see another supporter of TB and TWINE. Both make it into my top 5 along with the majestic TLD.
  • Jazz007Jazz007 Minnesota
    Posts: 257
    I used to write off most of the Roger Moore films as "campy" and therefore subpar films in the series - however, years of rewatches have proved Moore and his films as tons of fun and absolutely addicting with a lot to appreciate and love, not to mention they're usually beautifully photographed and scored. I've realized that the strength of the Bond series is its variety of films and, although I still generally prefer the thrillers to the more straight-up adventures or action films, I have come to appreciate all of the films in their own way.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,176
    Welcome to the dark side.

    I was told there would be cookies?
  • BMW_with_missilesBMW_with_missiles All the usual refinements.
    Posts: 3,000
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    Welcome to the dark side.

    I was told there would be cookies?

    We have cake. This may or may not be a lie.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I've changed opinion massively on FYEO. Always thought of it to be quite dull, last time I saw it I was blown away how good it looks. Absolutely loved it. Top 5 now.

    I'm glad to hear it. It certainly is a great looking film. After the 60's classics, it's probably the one that benefits the most from the blu ray upgrade.
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    My biggest change of opinion has been my appreciation of MOONRAKER. When it first came out in the cinemas in 1979, I found the idea of Bond going into space and shooting laser battles ludicrous and no more than an obvious, blatant rip-off of the STAR WARS craze, incompatible with my perception of the Bond character. I even refused to see it then and only watched it in the 90s, on VHS, for the very first time...not really liking it then, either. But it has grown on me over time to a degree I had not thought possible. It is now one of my favourite Moore films, about on par with LALD (that is meant positively) and poised to surpass TSWLM for me. It is good fun, has a far better villain and a much more capable actress for the Bond girl than its predecessor, brilliant cinematography and one of my favourite John Barry scores. It does descend into camp more than most, but then one just ought to resign oneself to the notion that it's really the closest thing to a spoof of all things Bond that is part of the official series. Relax and enjoy.

    That is a great story @j_w_pepper! Despite its well known flaws, there really are many things to appreciate about MR. Like you said, it's all about one's mindset going in.
    Jazz007 wrote: »
    I used to write off most of the Roger Moore films as "campy" and therefore subpar films in the series - however, years of rewatches have proved Moore and his films as tons of fun and absolutely addicting with a lot to appreciate and love, not to mention they're usually beautifully photographed and scored. I've realized that the strength of the Bond series is its variety of films and, although I still generally prefer the thrillers to the more straight-up adventures or action films, I have come to appreciate all of the films in their own way.

    Truer words were never spoken. I'm in absolute agreement with you there.
  • I too have to say I never thought much of FYEO, or even OHMSS when I was younger. But watching them now, you can't help but think that they are some really tremendous movies.
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