"Did i overcomplicate the plot ?" - Skyfall Appreciation & Discussion

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  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,020
    patb wrote: »
    Iv'e been on a few writing classes and spoken to a few writers about this ellement of action films. The concensus is, as long as you dont push your luck too far, then it really does not matter. SF clearly has many issues with weaknesses (as an IT security guy, I have to look away when Q plugs the laptop into the network) BUT (you know this is coming), the punters loved it and clearly did not care. They bought in both to the tone of the movie, the themes and the character arc. It would be easier to make a Bond movie that was 100% watertight re the plot but utterly dreadful in other areas and a flop

    It would be interesting for fans to point to any Bond movie (or indeed any classic action movie) that had a 100% watertight plot. They are few and far between. Writing a decent Bond script as hard enough without insisting on pure reality.
    I think Octopussy comes pretty close, come to think of it.

    Having said that, I do agree the plot of a film is not everything. The thing is, apparently some punters did feel Skyfall pushed its luck too far. Me, I can watch it and not be too bothered about its plot shortcomings, but they are there. Of course, it's not the only Bond film that has problems in that respect, but its higher artistic aspirations do make them a bit more noticeable.

    patb wrote: »
    Consistancy of tone is a key factor IMHO. It totally commits itself. I dont think there is one scene or one piece of dialogue that seems out of place compared to the rest of the movie. Obviously not everyone likes this but it should be respected for its clear and commited excecution.
    Personally, in a Bond film, I don't look so much for absolute consistency of tone, though of course I do want the film to have a tone that it generally sticks to. I do look for a sense of slightly exaggerated reality, and of inventiveness. Even Licence to Kill, a down-to-earth entry, has iguanas, drugs hidden along worms, etc. Similarly, Skyfall has Komodo dragons, skyscrapers with Jellyfish billboards and abandoned Japanese islands.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited November 2017 Posts: 4,583
    On this, the fifth year anniversary of Skyfall's U.S. release, I offer the following:

    Five years later: Why SKYFALL might be the best Bond film

    Enjoy!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    An article which is pretty much in line with my thinking, celebrates SF and which gives some opinions on how they may approach marketing for B25.

    Birth Movies Death: Return to Skyfall - by Phil Noble Jr.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Required reading, and also shows insight into the development of films (and the unrealistic opinion Bond films can crank one out every other year). It also shows the passion behind the scenes (a certain star and his director combing over all Fleming's novels).
  • Posts: 4,603
    As I had hoped, SF is moving towards The Great Escape etc as a Xmas favourite.

    Surfing the channels last light. Hopeless selection, Morcombe and Wise re-runs, chatty man junk, strangers baking xmas cakes etc etc, but on ITV2 , SF !! a family favourite,

    accessable for kids and Bond geeks alike ; "Welcome to Scotland" shouts the family and Kincade dishes out the action. It really is a classic IMHO.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,512
    Finaly Hazard is back with atleast 3 parter of SF:



  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    edited January 2018 Posts: 2,005
    I love this Appreciation threads. Is there one for every Bond film?

    I've reviewed Skyfall already in the Bondathon thread. So what can I add.

    Daniel Craig's run as Bond is probably saved by this film. Another QoS disaster and with SP following it, Craig probably would be forgotten fast, I would assume.

    I love Bond scruffy. Craig spends quite some time with the scruffy look and I really wish he would have kept it until the end of the film.

    The DoP has created a masterpiece.

    For me the Gold lies in the lengthy Skyfall sequence in Scotland. That whole part is original, unique (to Bond) and gripping, dramatic, action-loaded and in the end very moving.
    Dench, Finney and Craig deliver performances that are unforgettable. Bardem comes across as menacing, dangerous and psychotic. The over the top act from earlier scenes is gone, which in my opinion helps a lot.

    I've heard that SF was the most successful Bond film ever. I'm not surprised. This film ticks all the right boxes.

    If anything then the film may take itself too seriously, the usual balance of fun, wit and action/drama isn't delivered here. This is a regular drama/thriller. But why not.
    Bond is a lot of things, which is proven by 27 films. Even if you only count the EoN films Bond never stays the same and there are many variations on the theme. And I would guess, that's why it is so successful, even after 50 years.

    Skyfall is my No 10 Bond film. That may not seem very high but in my ranking only 4 films in the Top 13 are newer than 1977 !
    And only CR and GE is higher than SF.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    @Andi1996Ruegg one of the reasons I have such appreciation for SF is because of the humour and wit. I think it's really well done, unlike in the successor film. I'm referring primarily to the Q intro scene at the museum, Bond/M, Bond/Mallory, Silva/Bond and even Kincaide. It's all a bit sarcastic, but quite satisfying for me. The only part where it didn't work for me is Bond/MP (I don't think Harris works with Craig - it seems forced).

    I agree that it's definitely an 'action-lite' film, and if recent reports are to be believed, B25 will be similar. I wouldn't be surprised, because I can't see Craig jumping around like he did in CR/QoS in the next one. In fact, I think SF was a response of sorts to QoS (which was very action heavy), just as CR was a response to DAD.

    So that begs the question which is on everyone's mind: What lessons will EON take from SP and how will B25 be tweaked to respond?
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    What lessons will EON take from SP and how will B25 be tweaked to respond?

    Hopefully no more personal drama and a more thriller type of vibe. I'm OK with the "action lite" thing. Action is boring, on repeat viewings, but riveting dialogue is, well, riveting. Personally I will take small scale, tense and claustrophobic film over an action heavy, spectacular one.

    Oh, and I agree with your Harris comments. The only one of the Scooby Gang I can't stand.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    royale65 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What lessons will EON take from SP and how will B25 be tweaked to respond?

    Hopefully no more personal drama and a more thriller type of vibe. I'm OK with the "action lite" thing. Action is boring, on repeat viewings, but riveting dialogue is, well, riveting. Personally I will take small scale, tense and claustrophobic film over an action heavy, spectacular one.

    Oh, and I agree with your Harris comments. The only one of the Scooby Gang I can't stand.
    I definitely agree. I'm all for a FRWL type tight scale gritty thriller. I agree on your point on action as well. I think EON was smart not to go too action heavy with SF, but rather focus on suspense. The limited action they had in that film was quite well done imho (I realize some disagree).

    I'm looking forward to the director announcement because that will really give us a strong hint about the direction they are going to take with this film. The script 'doctor' will be quite important too. I'd like Haggis back because I thought his contributions to CR/QoS were quite good.
  • Posts: 7,653
    For me SF is disappointing as the outcome with 007 death or 007 alive would be the same M would die at the end. The Mendes touch is really a bit too much of it has too look coll regardless of anything, even if the tale loses any sense or tension. Hannibal Lector with a dash of LOTR in the cell scene of Silva, trains thrown at 007, the planned computer hack way ahead of being caught which happened because 007 went kinda rogue. The #metoo moment was a bit too much. Silva a two dimensional character after e promising start. And please the Scotland scene proved the daftness of the whole story, looked cool for some total illogical for others. (where were the SAS boys to back 007 and most certainly M up?)
    SF the first true disappointment in the Craig season, it made QOS look good.
  • Posts: 4,603
    Some people see and get the deepr characterisations, themes and tone of SF (this goes beyond logic) and some don't. I can imagine that if you don't get them, them the other stuff could be annoying.

    SF is very different from any Bond movie. Some love it for that and some don't.
  • Posts: 7,653
    patb wrote: »
    Some people see and get the deepr characterisations, themes and tone of SF (this goes beyond logic) and some don't. I can imagine that if you don't get them, them the other stuff could be annoying.

    SF is very different from any Bond movie. Some love it for that and some don't.

    The argument about some people seeing the "deeper themes" always struck me as quite pretentious and very amusing as the Fleming series is anything but an series of adventure novels.

    For me Mendes did film a beautiful movie but he did know diddly about creating a plot that makes some sense. The characterization of 007 and other character do feel a bit forced and did make no sense at all. But it is hard to admit that perhaps an actor does so well and seems to get such shite movies to work with. And while SF has some moments that are really decent the SP movie that followed was a sheer mockery of anything to do with a decent movie.
    If the next Craig installment is close to this one I would rather that they picked a new guy and enter a less pretentious era where we get workman directors instead of pretentious folks like Mendes or Nolan. We need a decent installment that combines fun, action with a decent plot, something the last two movies did not offer at all.

    For me the fact that James Bond decided to protect his boss and the service ends up getting her killed, he could just as well stayed in his beach bar and drunk himself into a stupor and she would have died at the hand of Silva s well, makes this movie poorly thought out.
    It felt like the director thought that the opening of the TMWTGG where Bond is returned from the dead and is aimed at his own boss was just not good enough, it would have been a Fleming opening at least and shows that Mendes and Craig just have no affection with Fleming whatsoever. They want to prove that they can do better and their effing trainwreck of a movie showed it. The Apocalypse Now moment in the movie was just a show how poor Mendes understood the characters and the movie that including the Aston Morgan DB in every movie for popular and easy scoring.

    SF & SP show how a popular character is taken into an alley and get the living daylights kicked out of him.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    Something that I realized watching QoS and SF again, is that Craigbond actually fails in all of his missions.
    On the other hand he miraculously survives the most certain deaths all the time.

    But I think the films still work fine. Bond is fantasy and Craigbond is fantasy depicted "realistically", not sure how I can word this better.
  • Posts: 4,603
    @SaintMark SF was balistic at the box office and joe public are not pretencious. Why did they like it so much?
  • Posts: 7,653
    patb wrote: »
    @SaintMark SF was balistic at the box office and joe public are not pretencious. Why did they like it so much?

    Perhaps the Olympic bit with Craig and the Queen was just fantastic and the best ad they could ever make.
    The measure of box-office never woed me, I saw Blade Runner in its original release and it was not as loved as it is today. The reverse is also true if certain movie were released today they would bomb incredible at the box office..

    For me the popularity of a movie can be flash fire and is not determined by quality. CR is the far better made 007 movie and deserved a far better BO IMHO. The general audience is fickle mistress that makes little sense. Did not Mamma Mia outperform CR at the British BO?- If only Craig had sung the title song I would say. ;)
  • Posts: 3,333
    Brilliant. Just watched the third HaphazardStuff video. Love this guy's reviews. Can't wait to see the fourth one.

    Here's the missing third one below...



  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The Olympics had nothing to do with it. How many times will that be repeated?
  • Posts: 7,653
    The Olympics had nothing to do with it. How many times will that be repeated?

    It will always be repeated because the denial has just less ground to defend. ;)
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    Craig was at the olympics??
  • Posts: 19,339
    Craig was at the olympics??

    You didnt see the mini-film with CraigBond and our Queen ..the real Queen ?
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Craig was at the olympics??

    You didnt see the mini-film with CraigBond and our Queen ..the real Queen ?

    NO! To be honest, I never knew about Bond at all before early 2017 :)
  • Posts: 19,339
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Craig was at the olympics??

    You didnt see the mini-film with CraigBond and our Queen ..the real Queen ?

    NO! To be honest, I never knew about Bond at all before early 2017 :)
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Craig was at the olympics??

    You didnt see the mini-film with CraigBond and our Queen ..the real Queen ?

    NO! To be honest, I never knew about Bond at all before early 2017 :)

    Get on Youtube and ENJOY !!
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    OMG seriously.....THAT should have been the pts to Skyfall!
  • Posts: 19,339
    Good eh ?
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    It's incredible. I can see now why Skyfall sold a couple of tickets more than the other films.
  • Posts: 19,339
    It's incredible. I can see now why Skyfall sold a couple of tickets more than the other films.

    That made SF the most pro-British Bond film ever....and why i love it and created this thread Andi.
    And why i love my Queen's spirit to join in with our national hero.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I don't think the Jubilee had anything to do with SF's success in North America. It was more about Silva (who was lauded as a return to the classic charismatic larger than life villains of old), the look/style of the film and the tension between M/Silva which did it based on what I remember. A lot of the general public went back for repeat viewings, and that was on account of the positive impact the film had on them.
  • Andi1996RueggAndi1996Ruegg Hello. It's me, Evelyn Tremble.
    Posts: 2,005
    @bondjames
    I was referring to the UK naturally. Isn't it the most successful film ever in the UK?

    Skyfall ticks all the right boxes, definitely. And I think coming after QoS, helped a lot too. The Craig era desperately needed SF and it got it.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2018 Posts: 23,883
    @Andi1996Ruegg , sorry I missed that. Yes, definitely SF benefited in the UK from British pride and patriotism. The whole film is drenched in that. It was the most successful film there for a very short while. SW-TFA took it out a few months later.

    I just don't believe that had anything to do with its success outside of the UK.
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