It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
^ Back to Top
The MI6 Community is unofficial and in no way associated or linked with EON Productions, MGM, Sony Pictures, Activision or Ian Fleming Publications. Any views expressed on this website are of the individual members and do not necessarily reflect those of the Community owners. Any video or images displayed in topics on MI6 Community are embedded by users from third party sites and as such MI6 Community and its owners take no responsibility for this material.
James Bond News • James Bond Articles • James Bond Magazine
Comments
true. but as a plot device in films it had its time - and that was a long time ago....
please keep B25 away from laptops and tedious technology. there s nothing more mundane or depressing than the sight of a laptop in bond movie
I don't normally say this kind of thing, but I do genuinely believe that the members of this forum could have come up with more plausible and interesting ways to progress the SF plot than what P&W and co came up with.
The "I mean, seriously!" test can be held and lost against most (if not all) in the series. It's still all fantasy.
PS the "breadcrumbs" scene? that's one of the more reality based scenes IMHO.
But I have heard people argue that because SF sets itself a higher standard, it only makes sense that audiences expect more - such as a working plot.
For me it just boils down to me not being entertained. I'd probably rather watch DAD, which at least has a bit of insane energy to it.
When I got back home, on a Monday, I went straight to the movie theater from the airport and saw it again. I appreciated it even more.
And it didn't hurt that Berenice Marlohe is just oh so...ah, words can't describe it.
Spoilt partly and undermined by rebuilding it.
I will admit that I liked seeing it at Bond's storage facility in SF with the Bond theme blaring. It looked great parked there, but I'm over it.
RE: The DB5 - I felt a sense of disappointment when I heard they were going there again, but I was largely accepting of the its usage in CR, which, at best, was a neat twist. Had they retained that narrative - ‘Bond’s personal vehicle’ (which had Fleming overtones) I’d have been fine with its inclusion in SF, but Mendes wanted his cake and ate it.
At a push, I’d have taken the flipping of the gear nob. At the premiere the roar of laughter at this exact moment was so great that it drowned out Dench’s, ‘Go on then, eject me’ line, which tells you exactly where the joke is and that the audience don’t always need things signposted or spelt out.
When I saw it the day after, and heard the Dench line, it completely blew the gag.
Basically, I thought Mendes was smarter than that and so when the car turned out to genuinely gadget-laden it completely took me out of the film.
It’s muddled and symbolically schizophrenic. SP only adds to its mishandling.
Prop or not, it just shouldn’t be there anymore.
To be fair the instrumental of Writing's on the Wall is among the most Bondian pieces of music we got since Barry's departure.
It's ok but I think Arnold was Bondian without using the theme in CR and QOS. I just find it too on the nose, pastiche is how I would describe it with or without Smith's whining on it.
That's a great point to touch upon, by the way-- the risk a Bond song runs of sounding like too much of a homage. The "classic" Bond song sound --apparent in Goldfinger and Thunderball-- is simultaneously dramatic, seductive and cool in a jazzy way. In creating a Bond song in the "classic" style there must be a certain care in not striking too earnest and dramatic a tone, but not being excessively and almost cartoonishly "cool" either. I think several musical spoofs of Bond songs overplay (deliberately, of course) that jazzy coolness.
Of course, plenty of fine Bond songs don't really aim for that "classic" style, which is a good way of avoiding the problem, not to mention keeping things fresh. Nobody Does It Better and FYEO are some examples. They try and arrive at a feel of Bondian coolness from a different place.
Being a global smash hit doesn't mean it doesn't have its flaws and doesn't invite discussion and criticism, especially from Bond fans. I wasn't on this board at the time, so I couldn't be counted on for that support even in 2012. I don't hate SF, just find it vastly overrated and very little fun at all.
I find myself thinking along the same lines as Getafix regarding SF's problems and general lack of enthusiasm (sorry to be late to the discussion). I especially share the feeling about having an entire film where Dench's M seems to be the lead character instead of Bond himself. My only question is regarding the previous films and her questionable decisions, what took so long to finally call her actions into question?
I won't hesitate to declare SP's precredits much more fun and involving than the slog that is SF's. The line from the first MI film kept going through my mind "The NOC list is in the open!" I just don't like MP shouting things out. Bond doesn't need a partner.
Some are applauding the less action/spectacular action as meaning more is less, but at least give me one sequence that is memorable. CR has less action but its major sequences are at least memorable. I wouldn't add any of SF's to a best of sequence of Bondian action scenes. Come on, this is Bond.
Actually I've been waiting for the thread about what you'd change to get to SF as I have plenty.
It's nice what you write but I worship Barry and Smith's song isn't fit to lick the boots of that legacy, if you appreciate Barry I can't see how you'd let your ears be sullied with such mediocre noise.
WOTW is totally unsuitable for the film because the subject matter of the song isn't even well realised in the film.
I'm certainly not putting it in the same bracket as Simon's NBDIB, that song is an utter classic and still sounds brilliant even now, yes it does avoid the usual Bond template but it does it so well, it's just a timeless memorable tune.
LALD of course is another example where they went for something different and it worked brilliantly
WOTW has already been forgotten and so it deserves to be, the problem is that so many Bond themes since Barry stopped have just not been able to live outside of the titles. The trick with Barry's themes is they stand up with the film or without it.
I can't really say that about anything after TLD, maybe Bono & Edge's Tina Turner sung GE or Arnold & Cornell's YKMN but most certainly not that Smith dirge.
I agree on both being examples of a different approach, although I love the former and dislike the latter.
100% agree. I like Surrender, but I think Crow's song fits the opening titles better.
It's also why I don't get all the fuss around "Who can you trust", which people have often suggested should have been the title song in place of WOTW. It tries too much to sound like a Bond parody, and that's why it was written for a parody.
@Shardlake is right, WOTW's lyrics are out of place since Bond and Madeleine's relationship is so poorly developed during the movie and that's one more reason why the instrumental would have worked much better.
However I do love the film, it's in my top 5 for sure. It's beautiful to look at, M being a central character works perfectly, Silva is a memorable villain with understandable motivations, Bond's repartee with Moneypenny is good, the introduction of Q is good, the themes the movie explores are good, etc etc.
I love this. And you don’t have to be apologetic in any way. What you described is exactly what a good film is supposed to do. May not be for everyone. But it was for you.
Thanks for sharing @TripAces ....
I can only try to convey my appreciation of WOTW through the following instrumental version. There are no Sam Smith vocals to distract, and obviously, unlike the soundtrack album instrumental, the melody isn't missing here. I think I got it from YouTube at some point.
http://picosong.com/wLwEd/
I'm assuming you, like @Walecs, are referring to how the lyrics of the song exaggerate the importance of the relationship between Bond and Madeleine. This is true, but that doesn't make the song entirely unsuitable for the film, since a) what the lyrics hint at is still legitimately a part of the film, even if an undercooked one, and b) lyrics can afford to play with such ideas. Strict adherence to the film's narrative, and the importance it gives (or doesn't give) to certain aspects of its story, is not a necessity.
I do feel the term 'dirge' is inappropriate for this song. It's a slow theme, but not an especially solemn or somber one. That word would apply better to Skyfall, I think (opinions on it aside).
By the way, how do you feel about Another Way to Die in comparison to WOTW?
I enjoy Surrender, but also TND. The latter is clearly less pastiche-y than the former, and I appreciate that. It's a good song.
I do actually think WOTW is a better song technically than SF. Smith's vocals are a bit too high - there are some better female vocal covers online.
But SF is still a decent Bond song by any standards. I think it could have done with a bit extra external input. I don't know the technical terms but it feels a bit repetitive and lacks the climax it seems to be working towards.
YKMN is still the best song by a long shot from the last 25 years
Interesting thoughts. Smith's timbre is rather... "whiny".
This is one female cover of the song I absolutely adore. There are couple of minor improvements that could be made to the vocal performance but in general it's terrific:
In hearing this version, I also realize I really like that sudden leap upwards in the melody at 1:54. Just not when Smith is performing it!
I also agree that Skyfall is a good Bond song; no question about it. I enjoy Adele's voice and the song has a good orchestral arrangement. I was saying earlier the song feels a tad busy, and reading your comments, I think I can now specify what I meant by that: once the introduction is over, the song starts firing on all cylinders and keeps that general level of intensity until the end, so it can feel a bit monotone and grow slightly tiresome. By comparison, WOTW has peaks and valleys; it's more dynamic. So when you suggest the song's climax doesn't work, it might have to do with the fact the song is so intense for so long, it can't get much more intense at the end.