Skyfall Considered the Most Overated film of all.

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  • Posts: 3,333
    Milovy wrote: »
    @bondsum To be fair, he doesn't shoot the extinguisher to cause an explosion, but rather to flood the room with chemical, which diminishes Silva's field of view and allows M to escape.
    It's been awhile since I've rewatched SF, but surely it's the same outcome however way you demonstrate it. Bond shoots something that's combustible and manages to confuse the enemy combatants and make his escape. I might have been more forgiving towards this if we hadn't already seen the same trick in CR in the embassy showdown, but here in SF it just looks way too convenient and repetitious. Not to mention it had also followed quick on the heels of the MI6 building explosion via a computer hack (go figure) and gas mains supply, if I remember the sequence of events correctly? And I must remember that if ever I'm called to defend myself, or my actions at a public hearing, all I need to do is whip out a poem as my final defence; it's bound to do the trick.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    This critic, whoever he is, does have some fair points about everything he says. Also regarding other films on his list. He is spot on about I Vitelloni being a better Fellini film than Amarcord. At least in my book. Inception, Million Dollar Baby and Slumdog Millionaire masterpieces? I would agree they are not. On the other hand, I do like Videodrome a lot.

    We can dismiss him for calling a Bond film overrated but in the same breath he also calls one underregarded. To be quite honest I would rather watch TLD over SF as well. Sure SF is nowhere near as overrated as, say, Avatar. But this critic doesn't shout irrelevant statements and leaves it at that. His choices are argumented and he presents us with an alternative.

    Nobody says we have to agree with him, but I don't think he should be dismissed as someone who knows nothing of cinema either.
  • Posts: 11,425
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    This critic, whoever he is, does have some fair points about everything he says. Also regarding other films on his list. He is spot on about I Vitelloni being a better Fellini film than Amarcord. At least in my book. Inception, Million Dollar Baby and Slumdog Millionaire masterpieces? I would agree they are not. On the other hand, I do like Videodrome a lot.

    We can dismiss him for calling a Bond film overrated but in the same breath he also calls one underregarded. To be quite honest I would rather watch TLD over SF as well. Sure SF is nowhere near as overrated as, say, Avatar. But this critic doesn't shout irrelevant statements and leaves it at that. His choices are argumented and he presents us with an alternative.

    Nobody says we have to agree with him, but I don't think he should be dismissed as someone who knows nothing of cinema either.

    +1
  • Posts: 4,615
    Overated and undererated are meaningless words when applied to works of art. What I would say is that SF does not get the respect it deserves for its massive box office. Those who dont like it are perfectly entitled to that opinion but I have not respect for the sour grapes re Olympics, anniversary etc.
  • Posts: 11,425
    This isn't true. Over time it's very common for a work of art that was initially acclaimed as a masterpiece to be downgraded and even forgotten. SF is not going to be forgotten but after DC has moved on it will inevitably be reassessed. Who knows how it will be regarded in 20 or 30 years.

    OHMSS was once regarded as an embarassment to the series (i.e. it was underrated), but is now widely seen as one of the best. Things change.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 4,615
    So as it is downgraded, others then claim it is underated? its all relative and based on personal opinion
  • Posts: 11,425
    I've never believed in the 'it's all relative' theory.

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    As far as I'm concerned a film doesn't need to be respected because of good box office results. Some great films did well at the box office, some great ones didn't. But most importantly, there are turds that made tons of money. Almost every Michael Bay film proves that point.

    Nevertheless, this is indeed all opinion and you are right about that. I'm not saying this critic is right by default, I just wanted to point out that this bloke does know something about cinema and that he does give reasonable arguments to back up what he says.

    I also agree with @Getafix that overrated and underrated are terms that can be applied when used sparingly. You can't call a film underrated when it is praised by the majority of critics and public.
  • Posts: 4,615
    Hollywood is a private entity, it exists to make profit . If any movie makes a profit, it has ticked the most important box of all (and created wealth and employment plus created the finance to make the smaller movies). I will always give any movie some level of resepct for ticking that box, even though I dont actually like it.
    How long would Hollywood last if it made a series of movie that critics and buffs loved but made a loss at the box office?
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,120
    You're right about all that, but that doesn't mean the film in question is any good.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Making money has always been integral to the Bond movies. I don't have a problem with that in the slightest. I like the fact Bond movies are supposed to pack in the punters and satisfy a mass audience. I do recognise what SF achieved in this respect.
  • Posts: 15,117
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    This critic, whoever he is, does have some fair points about everything he says. Also regarding other films on his list. He is spot on about I Vitelloni being a better Fellini film than Amarcord. At least in my book. Inception, Million Dollar Baby and Slumdog Millionaire masterpieces? I would agree they are not. On the other hand, I do like Videodrome a lot.

    We can dismiss him for calling a Bond film overrated but in the same breath he also calls one underregarded. To be quite honest I would rather watch TLD over SF as well. Sure SF is nowhere near as overrated as, say, Avatar. But this critic doesn't shout irrelevant statements and leaves it at that. His choices are argumented and he presents us with an alternative.

    Nobody says we have to agree with him, but I don't think he should be dismissed as someone who knows nothing of cinema either.

    If he had said SF was the most overrated Bond movie he may have had a point, albeit I would disagree with this. If he had said SF was overrated I would even tend to agree even if I loved the movie. But THE most overrated movie ever? A little perspective would not hurt.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    OHMSS was once regarded as an embarassment to the series (i.e. it was underrated), but is now widely seen as one of the best. Things change.
    I think we have to make the distinction between the general public and fans of the series. I don't believe OHMSS has had any reappraisal by the general public at large. The same goes for TLD, LTK & QoS. As far as I'm aware, these films have been largely forgotten. I expect SP to join them shortly.

    One usually gets one chance to get it right, and that is at initial cinematic release. In this respect, SF knocked it out of the park.

    While I agree that Craig's era will undergo a critical reassessment after he retires (probably with negative implications, as is usually the case for all of the actors bar Connery post-tenure), I still think SF & CR will be held up as his key achievements (just like LALD & TSWLM are for Roger Moore). I actually think SF will be Craig's GF or TSWLM, with CR being more his FRWL, DN or LALD.
  • Posts: 11,189
    As I've said before on here OHMSS even got a mention in the ITV Best Ever Bond documentary in 2002 (the documentary featured the 10 best Bond moments as voted for by the public). The only era to not get a mention at all was Dalton's.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited March 2017 Posts: 7,120
    Ludovico wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    This critic, whoever he is, does have some fair points about everything he says. Also regarding other films on his list. He is spot on about I Vitelloni being a better Fellini film than Amarcord. At least in my book. Inception, Million Dollar Baby and Slumdog Millionaire masterpieces? I would agree they are not. On the other hand, I do like Videodrome a lot.

    We can dismiss him for calling a Bond film overrated but in the same breath he also calls one underregarded. To be quite honest I would rather watch TLD over SF as well. Sure SF is nowhere near as overrated as, say, Avatar. But this critic doesn't shout irrelevant statements and leaves it at that. His choices are argumented and he presents us with an alternative.

    Nobody says we have to agree with him, but I don't think he should be dismissed as someone who knows nothing of cinema either.

    If he had said SF was the most overrated Bond movie he may have had a point, albeit I would disagree with this. If he had said SF was overrated I would even tend to agree even if I loved the movie. But THE most overrated movie ever? A little perspective would not hurt.

    It is in fact not the most overrated film ever. You're right about that. I also implied that I did not agree with that (see Avatar comment). I'd say we more or less agree, my friend ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    As I've said before on here OHMSS even got a mention in the ITV Best Ever Bond documentary in 2002 (the documentary featured the 10 best Bond moments as voted for by the public). The only era to not get a mention at all was Dalton's.
    Outside England, I suspect few of the general public even know of the film.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    As I've said before on here OHMSS even got a mention in the ITV Best Ever Bond documentary in 2002 (the documentary featured the 10 best Bond moments as voted for by the public). The only era to not get a mention at all was Dalton's.

    That's a shame too, because the Czechoslovakia section of TLD alone is some of the best character building for Bond, showing how he acts on a mission and his own principles when it comes to his life and job.

    And LTK is packed with amazing and dire moments, especially that finale.
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    As I've said before on here OHMSS even got a mention in the ITV Best Ever Bond documentary in 2002 (the documentary featured the 10 best Bond moments as voted for by the public). The only era to not get a mention at all was Dalton's.

    That's a shame too, because the Czechoslovakia section of TLD alone is some of the best character building for Bond, showing how he acts on a mission and his own principles when it comes to his life and job.

    And LTK is packed with amazing and dire moments, especially that finale.

    The first part of TLD stands up to pretty much anything else in the series.
  • Posts: 676
    Getafix wrote: »
    The first part of TLD stands up to pretty much anything else in the series.
    I would even say the first part stands head and shoulders above most of the series. But then, I love TLD (if that wasn't obvious from the username.)
  • Posts: 11,189
    There's a slightly episodic feel to TLD I think. Certain scenes are far more memorable than the overall plot.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    There's a slightly episodic feel to TLD I think. Certain scenes are far more memorable than the overall plot.
    Definitely. I feel the same way about TND.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    As I've said before on here OHMSS even got a mention in the ITV Best Ever Bond documentary in 2002 (the documentary featured the 10 best Bond moments as voted for by the public). The only era to not get a mention at all was Dalton's.

    That's a shame too, because the Czechoslovakia section of TLD alone is some of the best character building for Bond, showing how he acts on a mission and his own principles when it comes to his life and job.

    And LTK is packed with amazing and dire moments, especially that finale.

    The first part of TLD stands up to pretty much anything else in the series.

    It's just really strong scripting. Wilson and Maibaum take a simple spy operation and through it paint a very comprehensive picture of who Dalton's Bond is. I get shivers up my spine when Dalton's eyes light in fear once he sees Kara with the gun, and when he chews out Saunders for questioning his principles as they go over the border.

    I also love Bond and M's talk about Pushkin, and how Bond is always trying to convince him that more investigation needs to be done, as he suspects the Soviet is innocent. Brown's M refuses, however, and orders the hit to go through. Bond has a history with Pushkin, which makes it hard for him, but he goes through with taking the order to give himself time to find out the truth, and if the truth is that Pushkin is guilty, at least Bond could show him mercy and end his life humanely, which another 00 might not if they took the job over him.

    For these kinds of things, TLD is so undervalued. Dalton should be mentioned along with Sean and Dan at all times, and way before Roger and Pierce, but gets forgotten at times. It's a shame, because in two films he did crazy character work with Bond that is staggering.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Yeah I think tld is a return to a more serious spy story which is fun in it self
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Yeah I think tld is a return to a more serious spy story which is fun in it self

    The parallels between it and FRWL are high in number, and I don't think that was an accident at all.
  • Posts: 7,418
    Couldn't agree more re TLD! It all comes back to Fleming, and Maibaum and Wilson used that excellent short story as a springboard for the story, and there are many wonderful sequences! And Dalton is utterly compelling as 007. I love that throwaway moment where, at the safehouse, he exhales cigarette smoke in suspicious disbelief at Koskovs story about Pushkin!
    Its well known that TLD was adapted for Daltons style, and not written specifically for him. I always wondered what Maibaum/Wilson would have changed if they were given the time?
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Does any one in the community dislike it? For me when I watched it the most recent time I thought it was incredible
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Ludovico wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    This critic, whoever he is, does have some fair points about everything he says. Also regarding other films on his list. He is spot on about I Vitelloni being a better Fellini film than Amarcord. At least in my book. Inception, Million Dollar Baby and Slumdog Millionaire masterpieces? I would agree they are not. On the other hand, I do like Videodrome a lot.

    We can dismiss him for calling a Bond film overrated but in the same breath he also calls one underregarded. To be quite honest I would rather watch TLD over SF as well. Sure SF is nowhere near as overrated as, say, Avatar. But this critic doesn't shout irrelevant statements and leaves it at that. His choices are argumented and he presents us with an alternative.

    Nobody says we have to agree with him, but I don't think he should be dismissed as someone who knows nothing of cinema either.

    If he had said SF was the most overrated Bond movie he may have had a point, albeit I would disagree with this. If he had said SF was overrated I would even tend to agree even if I loved the movie. But THE most overrated movie ever? A little perspective would not hurt.
    'Ever', for a film critic these days, means since they were born.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It doesn't help that so many don't bother to watch B&W movies anymore. A lot of big name entertainment/movie commentators I know would fail an exam on cinema history from the 30s to the 60s.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    It doesn't help that so many don't bother to watch B&W movies anymore. A lot of big name entertainment/movie commentators I know would fail an exam on cinema history from the 30s to the 60s.

    Wow, and if they love cinema they should be desperate to embrace the history of the motion picture.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    NicNac wrote: »
    It doesn't help that so many don't bother to watch B&W movies anymore. A lot of big name entertainment/movie commentators I know would fail an exam on cinema history from the 30s to the 60s.

    Wow, and if they love cinema they should be desperate to embrace the history of the motion picture.

    @NicNac many current movie commentators that are big names now were growing up in the 80s, and some of those forget that movies existed before the 70s. It's sad, but true.
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