Skyfall Considered the Most Overated film of all.

1141517192023

Comments

  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    I dont think its OTT to call Dalton compelling! Whenever he was in a scene, even when he wasn't speaking, you felt his presence in the room (The Blayden |House debriefing scene in TLD, for example!). You can actively see him listening to other actors, and reacting accordingly. Compare this to Brossa, who in a lot of scenes, when the camera was on other actors, you forgot he was in the scene! For me its Brosnan who never made the transition from TV to Cinema successfully. He's a mediocre actor struggling on the big screen to make an impression!. I loved Connery, huge screen presence, terrific actor, but he was emotionally cold at times, films like OHMSS and TLD wouldn't have worked with him as Bond!

    ...and yet he's worked with the likes of Tim Burton, John McTiernan, John Boorman, Richard Attenborough, Roman Polanski, Susan Sarandon and Meryl Streep and is playing characters like Gerry Adams.

    I admit he's far from the greatest of actors but to say that he hasn't successfully transferred from the small to big screen is really stretching it.

    Dalton's the one who has stayed mainly in tv territory and appears rarely in films. When he does its usually small/lightweight roles.

  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    I agree BAIN, saying Brosnan hasn't made that transition successfully barely stands up to scrutiny.
  • Posts: 676
    bondjames wrote: »
    You understand what I'm looking for in a Bond actor perfectly @Milovy. I've always felt that Dalton and Brosnan were two opposite ends of the spectrum. One was quite genuine and sincere, but relatively lacking in style/panache (it was almost like he didn't give a damn about it). The other was all surface level gloss without much substance. Both lacked something that I personally thought Connery and Moore had in spades, which was that combination of both (although they played to their different strengths).
    Indeed. I have always admired this approach on Dalton's part, but I'm not sure it was the right choice.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I've felt for a while now that Dalton has a "tv-drama" sort of presence about him. Whether its due to how he's lit or what he's wearing i'm not sure but I do think there's something missing in comparison to most if not all of the other actors. In the scene when he's sitting down on the table opposite Dario in the bar in LTK for example, Del-Toro is always the one I'm watching.
  • Posts: 676
    Brosnan fans vs. Dalton fans. The eternal debate. ;)
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Basically, this comes down to how you view Brosnan and Dalton as actors.

    I admire Dalton a lot for his genuine dedication to the role. He seemed to really study the character and tried to bring out the more interesting aspects of James Bond. Brosnan by contrast seemed to just be happy to be there and used Bond as a means to develop his own career. BUT I do think Brosnan has more screen charisma.

    I also agree that you could sometimes sense Dalton pulling out his dramatic acting chops, which I think weakens him a bit.

    Bottom line, I think Dalton is probably the "deeper" actor but he's also the more stagey actor of the two. His style doesn't translate well to film.

    I've also noticed the way he annunciates certain words and syllables at times. He speaks maybe a little too clearly on occasions ("it was instinct, better make tha-T two, "sal-T corrosion" "Who's got your 500 mill-ion" etc)
  • Posts: 11,425
    I find the idea Brosnan has presence as Bond laughable. He's the most lightweight of all the actors to play Bond. He has all the presence of a puff of wind.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    I find the idea Brosnan has presence as Bond laughable. He's the most lightweight of all the actors to play Bond. He has all the presence of a puff of wind.

    Its a fact though that Brosnan is a more popular actor, star and person never mind Bond.

    Whether you agree with it is another matter but you can't dispute the man has had his fair share of starring roles.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,425
    That's not under dispute here. We're talking Bond.

    I've said many times I don't care that much for Dalton's non Bond stuff and that I've enjoyed Pierce in other stuff.

    But as Bond Dalton is far more compelling.

    So what if he's a bit stagey. He brings some conviction and danger to the screen.
  • Jazz007Jazz007 Minnesota
    Posts: 257
    Getafix wrote: »
    That's not under dispute here. We're talking Bond.

    Absolutely. Seraphim Falls, The Ghost Writer, The Matador.... Brosnan is a good actor. It's not his fault that he was miscast as James Bond in an era that saw the producers groping for a coherent direction with each new film.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Jazz007 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    That's not under dispute here. We're talking Bond.

    Absolutely. Seraphim Falls, The Ghost Writer, The Matador.... Brosnan is a good actor. It's not his fault that he was miscast as James Bond in an era that saw the producers groping for a coherent direction with each new film.

    I'm inclined to agree.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I don't buy that Dalts brought danger, if I'm honest. If I had to scrap with one Bond I'd definitely pick Tim.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    to be fair I do think Dalton sold the darker scenes well (Pushkin's interrogation and putting a knife to Lupe's throat in LTK). His bar scuff in LTK isn't bad either but Connery, Laz and Craig all come off as more authentically dangerous and threatening to me.



    [/i]
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    to be fair I do think Dalton sold the darker scenes well (putting a knife to Lupe's throat in LTK).
    "You'd better find yourself a new lover!"
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    to be fair I do think Dalton sold the darker scenes well (putting a knife to Lupe's throat in LTK).
    "You'd better find yourself a new lover!"

    It's funny, after watching Benicio Del Toro in Sicario (he also plays a vengeful character) it made me re-think Dalton's performance in LTK. Del Toro in this film makes LTK Dalton look weak in comparison.


  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    to be fair I do think Dalton sold the darker scenes well (Pushkin's interrogation and putting a knife to Lupe's throat in LTK). His bar scuff in LTK isn't bad either but Connery, Laz and Craig all come off as more authentically dangerous and threatening to me.
    [/i]

    For me, again, it just boils down to him 'acting' rather than exuding a sort of natural presence or menace in some scenes. Don't get me wrong he's excellent in others; alongside Thomas Wheatley in those openings scenes he's awesome.
  • Posts: 11,189
    RC7 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    to be fair I do think Dalton sold the darker scenes well (Pushkin's interrogation and putting a knife to Lupe's throat in LTK). His bar scuff in LTK isn't bad either but Connery, Laz and Craig all come off as more authentically dangerous and threatening to me.
    [/i]

    For me, again, it just boils down to him 'acting' rather than exuding a sort of natural presence or menace in some scenes. Don't get me wrong he's excellent in others; alongside Thomas Wheatley in those openings scenes he's awesome.

    I get your point. Essentially Dalton IS acting all the time.
  • Posts: 26
    RC7 wrote: »
    I don't buy that Dalts brought danger, if I'm honest. If I had to scrap with one Bond I'd definitely pick Tim.
    but which Bond would you pick to hug. i think I would be Tim in this case i wouldn't fight any of them maybe roger i could beat himcause hes so old

  • Posts: 26
    also she wnats to sleep with Brosnan can you blame her, i mean can you blame her






    007_goldeneye_pierce_brosnan_martin_campbell_017_jpg_cwjd.jpg
  • Posts: 11,425
    By danger I mean an edginess that wasn't they before. Dalton's bond feels less predictable.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Getafix wrote: »
    I find the idea Brosnan has presence as Bond laughable. He's the most lightweight of all the actors to play Bond. He has all the presence of a puff of wind.

    Brosnan had 100% more presence than Dalton...he can command a screen when he needs to ,and his films since Bond have ,on the whole,been very good or at least entertaining.

    Dalton needs to stay on the small screen and the theatre,that is where he is most suited.

    I would grab a Brosnan film to watch over Dalton's any day of the week.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    To avoid being called a Dalton apologist, two things did certainly hold him back from being a "screen item," so to speak.

    One being his lack of proper physicality (moments of him running in the TLD pre-titles chase are embarrassing). Dalton's Bond doesn't feel as physical a threat at many moments, and his movements can sometimes be very unnatural and very stagey. He never had the brutish refusal to lay down and die that Sean had, his gun never felt like an extension of himself as you sensed with Roger's version, and he certainly didn't have the crazy swiftness and power of Lazenby.

    The other "missing element" being a lack of style in comparison to the previous actors (and those after, actually). He had some goods suits, no doubt, but the fits seemed off the rack and not really tailored (pun intended) to him. I've argued in the past that his Bond just put on what he had around him without fussing, which is a nice character detail, but that style choice doesn't exactly make his take on the character a vibrant on screen persona. Part of why Sean is so engrossing to watch is because he was dressed in the best suits of that time, while Dalton physically had nothing to really attract the eye.

    That lack of coordination and style are the things that I think stopped him from being better than he was, which I still think was pretty great. I have to be impartial though, and those are the issues I find with his performances at this stage.

    This is a good post. Yes Dalton was certainly understyled in the clothes department. But.....in terms of physicality......have you seen Brosnan running......its hilarious!!!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @suavejmf, Brosnan's not great either, no. It's the dorky running, and I've pointed out many a time that his fight with Renard at the end of TWINE looks like two geriatric retirees fighting over the last drop of prune juice.

    It is hard to match Sean, George and Dan, though. All three of them looked like they could kill, especially Dan. Some parts of his movies feel like snuff films for crying out loud.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I'll take Dalton over Brosnan personally every time but I can't deny mass audiences warmed to Pierce much more, he feels more what they wanted from Bond and a much safer choice, Dalton just didn't click with joe public.

    Now when Dalton appeared I was one of the few that loved his portrayal and felt TLD was definitely a step up from what we'd had previously, then 2 years later when he returned I initially loved LTK but over the years that film has dated terribly.

    Dalton does have a stagey feel to his portrayal, I think he actually seemed better in TLD in hindsight. Dalton fans have a tendency to fawn over his LTK performance but it's a real mixed bag, some moments when he's great and others where he feels awkward and there is something off.

    You can go on about him ushering in the hard edged emotional Bond before Craig but there is a great distance between the confidence Daniel displays from the get go in CR to what Dalton did.

    Craig never feels awkward or not confident, there is a conviction in his acting, he commands the screen like no other actor since Connery.

    Craig for me is considerably a better Bond to Tim and I prefer Dalton to both Moore and Brosnan.

    If Dalton had done Skyfall I very much doubt TD fans would be slagging it off like they do now, a lot of Dalton fans have sour grapes that their favourite never got the material Craig did.

    Until then they hadn't found an actor dramatically confident enough that would be able to convey what Craig does, neither Dalton or Brosnan could have pulled those films off as well as Craig.

    He does it so naturally that there is a tendency to think there is no effort but it's not just in the way speaks but the way he carries himself and those extraordinary blue eyes he has.

    Neither Dalton or Brosnan had any of that.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Shardlake, there is definitely an effortless nature in how Dan acts. He's incredibly compelling to watch in a way that we haven't seen since Sean. They make it seem easy to convey Bond's inner life, but when lesser actors try it, their true talent is evident.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Not denying Craig brings a more confident portrayal. I have always been a fan of DC and am happy for him to stay as long a he wants. But for me I still find Dalton's performance in the first half of TLD to be one of the most compelling Bond performances in the series. Dramatically I find it much more satisfying than anything we've had from Dan.

    That's not so say I don't rate DC's performance - just that I'd argue Dalton is underrated.

    For me Dan's Bond has tended to lack vulnerability. Even Roger seemed more in peril than Dan does. Dan's Bond is confident, even when he's supposedly in the doldrums, that I find it hard to really get behind him.
  • Posts: 7,418
    My point was that no matter what top Directors Brossa worked with, he always came across as a TV actor. For me Brossa, as Bond, always came across as a supporting actor. In each of his films as 007, he had his thunder stolen by another actor. Scorupco in GE, , Vincent Schiavelli steals TND, Marceau in TWINE, and, eh, well an iceberg in DAD!! Not forgetting Judi Dench, who would have clicked much better with Dalton than Brossa!
    To say he had more screen presence than Dalton is laughable! He was a lightweight, and as was said here, needed the Bond role more than it needed him, hence his moaning to the press when he was dumped!
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 4,325
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    My point was that no matter what top Directors Brossa worked with, he always came across as a TV actor. For me Brossa, as Bond, always came across as a supporting actor. In each of his films as 007, he had his thunder stolen by another actor. Scorupco in GE, , Vincent Schiavelli steals TND, Marceau in TWINE, and, eh, well an iceberg in DAD!! Not forgetting Judi Dench, who would have clicked much better with Dalton than Brossa!
    To say he had more screen presence than Dalton is laughable! He was a lightweight, and as was said here, needed the Bond role more than it needed him, hence his moaning to the press when he was dumped!

    I disagree. Brosnan commanded the scene from the get go. From his opening moments in each film ("Beg your pardon..." / "Filthy habit!" / "If you can't trust a Swiss banker..." / planting the satellite, taking the sunglasses off Van Bierk, "show me the weapons.") he owned the screen and propelled his character forward for the rest of the film. He held his ground against the aforementioned Scorupco, Schiavelli and Marceau - and even Dench. The tension crackles in the briefing scene with M and that's because both players are bringing their A game. Even in DAD when he's letting loose in Hong Kong against M.

    And what the hell is a "TV actor" nowadays? Since the Sopranos started in the 90s, there's been less discrimination between the two formats, leading to the best actors in the world transitioning between film and television. Plenty of actors did it before Brosnan anyway - Moore being one of them who, despite being a great Bond, isn't a good actor.

    You could even say that the more interesting acting work is now on TV/streaming services rather than film.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,425
    I guess it's all in the eyes of beholder.

    My first response to Brosnan as Bond was that he was lightweight, looked uncomfortable and was constantly overshadowed by other actors.

    His entrance to Carver's party in TND still makes me cringe. It's like he doesn't really think he belongs there.

    For me it's primarily that he was miscast, becuase he's serviceable in other roles. As the slimy secret agent in TTOP, he's actually very good.

    Brozza has matured a bit over the years as well.

    @BAIN123 is constantly banging on about Dalton being a TV actor or better on stage or some such. But for me, Brosnan as Bond, especially in GE, is the epitome of lightweight TV acting not translating onto the big screen.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    You can watch a fine actor like John Lithgow be every bit as good on TV (in Dexter for example) as he is on the big screen.

    Pretty interchangeable these days.
Sign In or Register to comment.