Skyfall Considered the Most Overated film of all.

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  • Posts: 19,339
    Tom Hardy,Nicole Kidman,Stanley Tucci,Reece Witherspoon,Dennis Quaid,but to name a few who have been in TV series recently..
  • Posts: 11,425
    NicNac wrote: »
    You can watch a fine actor like John Lithgow be every bit as good on TV (in Dexter for example) as he is on the big screen.

    Pretty interchangeable these days.

    These days may be. TV is a lot better now than it used to be.

    Still not totally sure tho. Look at John Hamm in Mad Men - excellent. But in everything else he's rather forgetable. I suppose that's casting as much as medium, but I don't think everyone can make the transition.

    Btw, I'm not saying Brosnan can't do big screen - just that as Bond, particualrly in GE, I don't feel he was right. After that he became more sure of himself, but that just came across as cocky.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    @suavejmf, Brosnan's not great either, no. It's the dorky running, and I've pointed out many a time that his fight with Renard at the end of TWINE looks like two geriatric retirees fighting over the last drop of prune juice.

    It is hard to match Sean, George and Dan, though. All three of them looked like they could kill, especially Dan. Some parts of his movies feel like snuff films for crying out loud.

    Agreed.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Getafix wrote: »
    Not denying Craig brings a more confident portrayal. I have always been a fan of DC and am happy for him to stay as long a he wants. But for me I still find Dalton's performance in the first half of TLD to be one of the most compelling Bond performances in the series. Dramatically I find it much more satisfying than anything we've had from Dan.

    That's not so say I don't rate DC's performance - just that I'd argue Dalton is underrated.

    For me Dan's Bond has tended to lack vulnerability. Even Roger seemed more in peril than Dan does. Dan's Bond is confident, even when he's supposedly in the doldrums, that I find it hard to really get behind him.

    What about drinking on the plane thinking about Vesper in QoS? Or the crying at M's death in SF? I agree that Dalton is underated though.

    Daniel's Bond is the most vulnerable....E.g.

    Whatever is left of me - whatever is left of me - whatever I am - I'm yours. This is the real Bond.

    Vesper Lynd: You love me?

    James Bond: Enough to travel the world with you until one of us has to take an honest job... which I think is going to have to be you, because I have no idea what an honest job is.

    This is the real Bond.

    Vesper Lynd: You can switch off so easily, can't you? It doesn't bother you? Killing those people?

    James Bond: Well I wouldn't be very good at my job if it did.

    This is an act and suppressing emotion.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »

    @BAIN123 is constantly banging on about Dalton being a TV actor or better on stage or some such. But for me, Brosnan as Bond, especially in GE, is the epitome of lightweight TV acting not translating onto the big screen.

    Well Dalton's filmography seems to suggest that he's better fitted to the small screen than the big. It's mainly appearances in television shows and TV films. That's not exactly a bad thing but he's not really made much of an impact cinematically. I think it's fair to say that he doesn't have the reputation of some of his contemporaries.

    As has previously been said, most of the top actors can switch between the two.

    Broz is essentially a lightweight B-movie actor. That I agree with. But his looks and charisma have obviously helped propel him into larger leading roles - or at least they did in the 90s/2000s (now he seems to be going back to B-movie territory bar the odd more interesting role). To be fair he's probably pushed for a lot of that himself, but surely you wouldn't get to that level if others didn't see something in you.

    Also, another little thing: I remember when Brozza's step-daughter sadly passed away. I remember that story made the news headlines. Unfortunately, I very much doubt that, had Dalton experienced such a sad event, it wouldn't be as "big" in terms of news.
  • Posts: 7,418
    I think the point is missed! Plenty of actors started on TV (Bruce Willis!) and plenty of actors go between the two these days! My point was that Brosnan looks out of his depth on the big screen, particularly in Bond! Roger, of course isn't the greatest of actors, but Moore knew his limitations, and played Bond his own way. Brosnan, as some critics have said, was a mish mash of other actors, and never really put his own stamp on the role. At least Dalton had a clear goal, to return to Fleming and bring some of the elements from the written page to the part, not seen before.
    Re Brosnan, Getafix mentions the word cocky, I would class him as smarmy (that opening scene of GE in the car race!), definitely not a trait i would assosciate with 007! He got worse as the films went on, culminating in the abominable DAD!
  • Posts: 11,189
    I do agree that Broz does tend to sometimes over-stretch his abilities. But the fact remains, like it or not I'd say he has a bigger reputation as an actor than Dalton (as does Roger and as does Sean). For an limited actor he's certainly done well for himself and personally I do genuinely enjoy watching him if he's in a new film.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I do agree that Broz does tend to sometimes over-stretch his abilities. But the fact remains, like it or not I'd say he has a bigger reputation as an actor than Dalton (as does Roger and as does Sean). For an limited actor he's certainly done well for himself and personally I do genuinely enjoy watching him if he's in a new film.

    Spot on...Brosnan has a much bigger reputation and influence in the film world...especially thanks to films like The Matador,Tailor of Panama,The Ghost,Seraphim Falls,The Thomas Crown Affair etc.

    Not a bad run of films for a B-Actor .
    (Which he isn't,Brosnan is an A-movie actor IMO)

  • Posts: 11,189
    I think Broz is at heart a B-movie actor with A-movie looks. He kind of reminds me a bit of Bill Paxton or 80s Kurt Russell to be honest.
  • Posts: 19,339
    I think we better continue this debate in the Bond vs Bond thread which I have bumped ack onto the timeline chaps..this thread is seriously de-railing !!

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    I think the point is missed! Plenty of actors started on TV (Bruce Willis!) and plenty of actors go between the two these days! My point was that Brosnan looks out of his depth on the big screen, particularly in Bond! Roger, of course isn't the greatest of actors, but Moore knew his limitations, and played Bond his own way. Brosnan, as some critics have said, was a mish mash of other actors, and never really put his own stamp on the role. At least Dalton had a clear goal, to return to Fleming and bring some of the elements from the written page to the part, not seen before.
    I agree.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I do agree that Broz does tend to sometimes over-stretch his abilities. But the fact remains, like it or not I'd say he has a bigger reputation as an actor than Dalton (as does Roger and as does Sean). For an limited actor he's certainly done well for himself and personally I do genuinely enjoy watching him if he's in a new film.
    I agree here too.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think Broz is at heart a B-movie actor with A-movie looks. He kind of reminds me a bit of Bill Paxton or 80s Kurt Russell to be honest.
    I quite agree again.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    I think we better continue this debate in the Bond vs Bond thread which I have bumped ack onto the timeline chaps..this thread is seriously de-railing !!
    Agreed!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    If we compare bankability, Brosnan would probably win, but if we looked beyond and just saw the work itself, I'd day Dalton would win out. Think of it as legacy versus marketability.

    In his young days Dalton was already working with some of the best around, even the almighty Ms. Kate Hepburn, and he could hold his own with great power. He was a respected colleague and was a lad working amongst the gods and goddesses of his art form.

    I get into this with people all the time, but acting on the stage seems to be utterly dismissed in favor of film work, which is a crying shame. Stage is a far more challenging and demanding thing for an actor, as they put everything out there and there's no chance to go back and do another take. The art lives and dies in that moment, and that art's quality rests on the shoulders of the actors moment to moment. Movies can edit things to look better and choose the one cut of one hundred where an actor doesn't look like an idiot, but on the stage you only have that one shot and screw-ups mean something. And when a film comes out, you can buy it and watch it two hundred times in a row if you want, and enjoy it. With stage performance, you get one shot to see an actor work and that's it, as the next night the mood could be completely different. Film never changes, stage work must always change by its very nature.

    That world is Dalton's arena, and it shows. He knows how to play to an audience, but I think part of the problem for some people is that on a movie set that audience became the camera (there was nothing else for him to look at, really), leading to the belief that he was really over-performing because he was addressing us behind the screen in moments. There's those instances, yes, but Dalton's stage tendencies trained him from early on to really emote with power and draw eyes in a very visceral way, and I feel so much of that when I watch him in Bond.

    Brosnan gets a big benefit as a "star" because he's more movie friendly and that's largely all people care about. People want to go out and see a movie, then be able to see that same movie when it releases digitally and on the disc. Dalton's finest work is work many or even most of us have never seen, because we haven't gone to the stage and watched him act. The same could be said for Daniel, whose stage work in the past few years, including the most recent Othello, has been acclaimed across the board.

    Brosnan does okay to great work, and we see it all. Dalton does okay to great work that we see, and rousing things we never will.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Also, another little thing: I remember when Brozza's step-daughter sadly passed away. I remember that story made the news headlines. Unfortunately, I very much doubt that, had Dalton experienced such a sad event, it wouldn't be as "big" in terms of news.

    A very strange comment. The reason that was such a big thing is because Brosnan's daughter died from the same inherited condition her mother had also died of. It was less a case of just one sad and random loss and more a tragic continuation of an illness that carried across family genes and that had long been signaled to be a risk, which is all the more tragic considering the two beautiful lives it silenced.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    A good post 0Brady.

    I was just trying to point out in my last comment that even now the media seems more interested in a story* featuring Brosnan than a story featuring Dalton. The same thing happened when Broz was caught with a knife in his luggage at the airport.

    *obviously a death is more than a "story" but not in the eyes of the press.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @BAIN123, I just think in that case above the tragedy of it all was the real driving force behind the story.

    But you're right, Dalton would be the less featured Bond media-wise, and he's not in the habit of making himself a public fixture either, which makes him feel all the more private. Dan's a very private person too, but I think the media get their jollies off making him a public thing. The great thing about Dan is he can dish out double what he takes, to amusing effect.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    As @barryt007 previously mentioned, let's get this back on topic and save the Brosnan/Dalton comparisons for the appropriate thread.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Yes indeed. Presumably Dalton has had some bad experiences in the past so deliberately keeps a low profile. In turn the press have lost interest.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Yes indeed. Presumably Dalton has had some bad experiences in the past so deliberately keeps a low profile. In turn the press have lost interest.

    Or...he just values his privacy.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Disregarding the above story, Brosnan still features quite regularly in British tabloids. He obviously has enough of a profile in UK to still warrant column inches - however banal the stories may be.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I do agree that Broz does tend to sometimes over-stretch his abilities.

    Never more than in The Greatest! :D But I don't care, love Brosnan! And Dalton!
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    mattjoes wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I do agree that Broz does tend to sometimes over-stretch his abilities.

    Never more than in The Greatest! :D But I don't care, love Brosnan! And Dalton!

    Yeah I've seen The Greatest. Dodgy acting in that clip there from Pierce indeed. You can see him trying to cry.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Wow @Bain and @mattjoes...! I didn't know anything about THE GREATEST... and now I can't unsee that! Some of the worst acting ever... I felt embarrassed for Pierce... Holy crap! Not the way i wanted to wake up this morning...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    That was fun.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2017 Posts: 23,883
    re: The Greatest: I just youtubed a dramatic scene from it. Oh dear. Horrid. Poor Sarandon.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I'll take Dalton over Brosnan personally every time but I can't deny mass audiences warmed to Pierce much more, he feels more what they wanted from Bond and a much safer choice, Dalton just didn't click with joe public.

    Now when Dalton appeared I was one of the few that loved his portrayal and felt TLD was definitely a step up from what we'd had previously, then 2 years later when he returned I initially loved LTK but over the years that film has dated terribly.

    Dalton does have a stagey feel to his portrayal, I think he actually seemed better in TLD in hindsight. Dalton fans have a tendency to fawn over his LTK performance but it's a real mixed bag, some moments when he's great and others where he feels awkward and there is something off.

    You can go on about him ushering in the hard edged emotional Bond before Craig but there is a great distance between the confidence Daniel displays from the get go in CR to what Dalton did.

    Craig never feels awkward or not confident, there is a conviction in his acting, he commands the screen like no other actor since Connery.

    Craig for me is considerably a better Bond to Tim and I prefer Dalton to both Moore and Brosnan.

    If Dalton had done Skyfall I very much doubt TD fans would be slagging it off like they do now, a lot of Dalton fans have sour grapes that their favourite never got the material Craig did.

    Until then they hadn't found an actor dramatically confident enough that would be able to convey what Craig does, neither Dalton or Brosnan could have pulled those films off as well as Craig.

    He does it so naturally that there is a tendency to think there is no effort but it's not just in the way speaks but the way he carries himself and those extraordinary blue eyes he has.

    Neither Dalton or Brosnan had any of that.

    I didn't really buy into Dalton's performance in TLD, other than a few fleeting moments (bursting the balloon after Saunders death, getting ready to shoot the sniper), but in LTK he really nails the Fleming character, far more than any actor before or since.

    Sometimes Craig gets close to the Fleming Bond, but this is more down to the script itself, rather than Craig actively pursuing the Fleming Bond. Dalton became obsessive about it, wanting his hair and eyebrows to match the literary description as much as possible, and throughout LTK this is entirely obvious in his performance. Even his wardrobe matches closer to the literary character.

    As for SF, to me it doesn't really resemble anything from Fleming the way LTK does. The closest Craig has got to Fleming is the second half of CR.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Are you saying the Dracula hair is from Fleming?
  • Posts: 3,327
    Are you saying the Dracula hair is from Fleming?

    :))

    No, that Dracula hairstyle in the casino scene really didn't suit Dalton, did it. I did think his hair throughout the rest of the film looked pretty much spot on though (thick comma over the right eyebrow).
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 11,189
    I find Dalton's performance in LTK a bit hit-and-miss. The reaction to Della hinting at Bond marrying after the wedding is excellent and probably one of my favourite moments from him. On the other hand, I don't think he quite delivers in the scene when he finds Della and Felix (Della particularly). You can just sense him trying to sell it with that dramatic look of surprise. It's certainly not on the same level as Craig at the end of SF.

    There's also the scene when he's with Lupe in the casino and he dramatically orders her to "take me to him". That's a moment that's bugged me for a while as it feels over-played with the pause and quick movement.
  • Posts: 3,327
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Dalton's performance in LTK a bit hit-and-miss. The reaction to Della hinting at Bond marrying after the wedding is excellent and probably one of my favourite moments from him. On the other hand, I don't think he quite delivers in the scene when he finds Della and Felix (Della particularly). You can just sense him trying to sell it with that dramatic look of surprise. It's certainly not on the same level as Craig at the end of SF.

    There's also the scene when he's with Lupe in the casino and he dramatically orders her to "take me to him". That's a moment that's bugged me for a while as it feels over-played with the pause and quick movement.
    Really? I think Dalton in LTK is the single best performance we've ever had by an actor playing the role. He absolutely nails it throughout the entire film for me.

  • Posts: 11,189
    Better than Connery in his early films or Craig during the torture scene? To quote Dalton himself "NO WAY!"
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Dalton's very good in LTK. I do like his performance, but for me early Connery, Moore & Craig surpass him.
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