Pierce Brosnan admits he can't bear to watch himself as Bond

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Craig is an amalgam Bond just like Brosnan was. Brosnan wove together Connery and Moore as many have stated, and Craig weaves together Lazenby and Dalton. The next Bond will be another amalgam, this time of Craig and Brosnan - thus containing elements from each of the previous actors via proxy of amalgamation. It could be see as the ultimate distillation of onscreen Bond - the 007th actor to play the part, bringing things full circle. I look forward to that.

    @Mendes4Lyfe, a bold statement there, and nothing something we can readily predict with any accuracy. As you yourself just said, "It's a case of not jumping the gun and having the patience." Well, let's be patient and wait and see, then, 'cause I don't think Danny is done yet.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Gumbold wrote: »
    Craig is an amalgam Bond just like Brosnan was. Brosnan wove together Connery and Moore as many have stated, and Craig weaves together Lazenby and Dalton. The next Bond will be another amalgam, this time of Craig and Brosnan - thus containing elements from each of the previous actors via proxy of amalgamation. It could be see as the ultimate distillation of onscreen Bond - the 007th actor to play the part, bringing things full circle. I look forward to that.

    What apects of Craigs acting remind you of Lazenby? Genuinely curious

    The vulnerability and sensitivity, coupled with the very rough and tumble action.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2017 Posts: 8,395
    Craig is an amalgam Bond just like Brosnan was. Brosnan wove together Connery and Moore as many have stated, and Craig weaves together Lazenby and Dalton. The next Bond will be another amalgam, this time of Craig and Brosnan - thus containing elements from each of the previous actors via proxy of amalgamation. It could be see as the ultimate distillation of onscreen Bond - the 007th actor to play the part, bringing things full circle. I look forward to that.

    @Mendes4Lyfe, a bold statement there, and nothing something we can readily predict with any accuracy. As you yourself just said, "It's a case of not jumping the gun and having the patience." Well, let's be patient and wait and see, then, 'cause I don't think Danny is done yet.

    The difference is, mine's built on predictable patterns that are readily identifiable, if one cares to look. Brosnan and Craig are both amlagams, so it makes sense that that trend continues. Imagine it like puzzle with one piece missing - you know the exact shape of the missing peice based on the shape of the ones surrounding it. Brosnan and Craig are the only ones yet to be combined.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    The big difference is, neither Moore, Dalton or Brosnan tried to be Connery. Craig does, desperately so at times and is helped by EON who obviously realised early Craig has no own Bond identity.

    Craig redefined the role. To suggest he had no identity is just another laughable and baseless comment in the long list you appear to be racking up.

    There are lots of those niche opinions that gain traction over time, and the fact that Craig is still Bond is distorting things. Once someone new is in the role, then the "Craig is the second coming of Connery" theories can truly be tested out. Ultimately its not just a matter of how brightly the candle burns, but for how long. You can guess that Craig will be just as popular in 20 years from now, but ultimately its just a guess. There were plenty who thought Brosnan was the best Bond ever when he left the role - I remember that being a distinct sentiment. How do we know that in 20 years the Craig films won't have lost their lustre and become viewed as boring melodramas? It's a case of not jumping the gun and having the patience.

    I don't think @RC7 is jumping the gun, he's just noting a change I see too. I think it's undeniable to say that the series post-06 has changed in the eyes of the public in many ways, and has sent ripples through its own industry. The golden time of the series was the 60s, and that was kind of it. After that point we got workman directors and decent casts, though nothing truly interesting was being done amidst the attempts to make GF over and over again or to try and give an actor new material without supporting them all the way. At some point, we hit DAD and it's the perfect example of thinking bigger is always better, and that audiences will accept anything you throw at them, as seemed to be the mantra for a while anyway.

    With Craig on board Bond is actually viewed as a character for the first time in a long time, beyond a mere action man or blank slate that entertainment is created with. He develops from film to film and Dan has been able to play an ever-changing Bond beautifully in a way that was never tried (nor would it have been as successful regardless). He was the perfect Bond to lead the change of movie heroes in films that took their source material serious and wanted to tell actual stories with credibility and depth. Since Dan has been Bond you can't avoid hearing about big stars and directors of the A-list variety clawing at a chance to direct one of these movies because they see that Bond is actually worth their time now, and that the movies can transcend simple minded entertainment to become really impressive stories. Christopher Nolan wouldn't be eager to direct Brosnan in a Bond movie, for instance, but in a post-Craig world where a Bond taken seriously shows proven success? You're damn right he'd love the keys to that castle. It's not just Dan that was able to redefine what Bond is today, however, it's the whole team. The cinematographers that've created some of the most, if not the most, beautiful Bond films ever, providing an artistry and power of visual storytelling not seen since-you guessed it-the 60s. The directors and writers who dared to tell stories with an emphasis on character, theme and motif that we hadn't seen done properly since-you know what's coming-the 60s.

    If you asked people what they thought Bond was from 1995 to 2002, you'd get the regular blanket statements that pop culture expects Bond to be, which are really just copy and pastes of stuff Sean did. He's the action man, he sleeps with a lot of women, yada yada. I think the notions of Bond and who he is have changed since 2006, however, and in a much more gratifying way for me, because the character I love has his urgency and importance back that I don't feel was deserved for patches in his legacy. People think Bond is too above having films that aren't afraid to be actual films, but I think it's quite frankly a bullshit statement.

    The Craig era has made a very conscious decision to return to what worked at the very beginning of the series in movies like DN, FRWL, TB and OHMSS before it all lost its way and became a mere entertainment vehicle. Before the big change the scripts used character and theme in a shockingly ahead of its time way in entertainment cinema. The Bond women had actual dimension to them, despite their obvious beauty, and were treated seriously in the plots. Bond as a man was given actual time to be a dimensional character on screen, and react to the events that were happening to him in credible ways. It was an enterprise that was built on strong actors, strong writers, directors (essentially Young and Hunt with minor sprinkles of Hamilton), cinematographers and choreographers who created the most pure films that there has ever been. With parts of GF, most of YOLT and all the rest some of this this vision was lost, but at its core Bond started as true cinema that was shockingly mature, well crafted and, dare I say it, intellectual and rich. The films didn't treat their audiences as fools, and presented stories that were lurid, dangerous and rich in theme and motif, trusting that people would get the extra depth to the story that was there if they wanted to look deeper.

    The Craig era has been motivated further by a time in the industry that values the approach the best of the 60s films had, and has then been able to really take it to the next level and push that vision more and more. Once again, the scripts treat Bond as an actual character: a sphere, not a circle. Once again, stories with actual theme and motif and messages are being told that are fully committed to by the team without embarrassment or restraint. Once again, a certain prestige and power has been restored to what we see on the screen. I think we can see some of this in the bits of backlash some critics had for SP. They saw a series that'd innovated in the past films partially reverting to some aspects of Bond's cinematic past, and they hated the film for it. Like a grown up trying to fit into the clothes they wore as an infant, it was apparent that a shocking majority felt Bond has outgrown a lot of the formula that he'd had to coast on for so long. People don't want to see the same old same old anymore, as the films in the past decade have proven that he has more to give. The character, the depth, the stories, all of it. And I'm glad the team at EON weren't embarrassed to embrace that opportunity to truly do something that has caused a reconsideration of the function of James Bond as a part of cinema.

    I don't doubt it, Brady, everything you mention here is true, I expect. There are objective measures by which the films have improved and matured, however I think its jumping the gun to say "Craig reinvented the franchise". It paints a picture of Craig being a leading force in the changes that were made, and I just don't see that connection. EON hired Craig because they had determined to make those changes already, not the other way around. They already knew that the formula they had been working from for 40 years needed a rest, and they would have to step out of their comfort zone. That wasn't something that Craig brought to the table, in my eyes.

    I find the many manifold similarities between the Craig and Brosnan eras fascinating, but even more fascinating are the ways in which they are opposites. When Brosnan entered the scene, EON were solely focused on making Bond commercially viable again. Despite how Brosnan felt, they weren't interested in taking risks - not proper ones. If Craig had somehow landed the role back then, he would've been in the exact same position as Brosnan was. However, by the time of 2005 Bond's commercial viability was more than assured. If Brosnan had stepped in then, with EON ready to take the risks - nay, HAVING to take the risks, then he would be being credited now with reinventing things.

    What annoys me is the idea that Craig came in and orchestrated his Bond better than the other actors did. If that is true, it is only down to the fact that he had the good fortune to arrive when he did. Because if he had arrived in 1995, he would have gotten stonewalled just as Brosnan did. This supposed ability he posesses to reinvent the franchise would have been entirely neutured. That's why I view the constant comparisons to Connery a little embarrassing for those voicing them. Connery had a extremely limited team, low budget and created a phenomenon. Craig was not in an anyway near comparable position when he started.

    Who said 'reinvented the franchise'? Because I didn't. I said, 'redefined the role'. Which is exactly what he did post-Brosnan. You're doing some incredible bullshit gymnastics to stiff Craig out of the kudos he completely deserves.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    The big difference is, neither Moore, Dalton or Brosnan tried to be Connery. Craig does, desperately so at times and is helped by EON who obviously realised early Craig has no own Bond identity.

    Craig redefined the role. To suggest he had no identity is just another laughable and baseless comment in the long list you appear to be racking up.

    There are lots of those niche opinions that gain traction over time, and the fact that Craig is still Bond is distorting things. Once someone new is in the role, then the "Craig is the second coming of Connery" theories can truly be tested out. Ultimately its not just a matter of how brightly the candle burns, but for how long. You can guess that Craig will be just as popular in 20 years from now, but ultimately its just a guess. There were plenty who thought Brosnan was the best Bond ever when he left the role - I remember that being a distinct sentiment. How do we know that in 20 years the Craig films won't have lost their lustre and become viewed as boring melodramas? It's a case of not jumping the gun and having the patience.

    I don't think @RC7 is jumping the gun, he's just noting a change I see too. I think it's undeniable to say that the series post-06 has changed in the eyes of the public in many ways, and has sent ripples through its own industry. The golden time of the series was the 60s, and that was kind of it. After that point we got workman directors and decent casts, though nothing truly interesting was being done amidst the attempts to make GF over and over again or to try and give an actor new material without supporting them all the way. At some point, we hit DAD and it's the perfect example of thinking bigger is always better, and that audiences will accept anything you throw at them, as seemed to be the mantra for a while anyway.

    With Craig on board Bond is actually viewed as a character for the first time in a long time, beyond a mere action man or blank slate that entertainment is created with. He develops from film to film and Dan has been able to play an ever-changing Bond beautifully in a way that was never tried (nor would it have been as successful regardless). He was the perfect Bond to lead the change of movie heroes in films that took their source material serious and wanted to tell actual stories with credibility and depth. Since Dan has been Bond you can't avoid hearing about big stars and directors of the A-list variety clawing at a chance to direct one of these movies because they see that Bond is actually worth their time now, and that the movies can transcend simple minded entertainment to become really impressive stories. Christopher Nolan wouldn't be eager to direct Brosnan in a Bond movie, for instance, but in a post-Craig world where a Bond taken seriously shows proven success? You're damn right he'd love the keys to that castle. It's not just Dan that was able to redefine what Bond is today, however, it's the whole team. The cinematographers that've created some of the most, if not the most, beautiful Bond films ever, providing an artistry and power of visual storytelling not seen since-you guessed it-the 60s. The directors and writers who dared to tell stories with an emphasis on character, theme and motif that we hadn't seen done properly since-you know what's coming-the 60s.

    If you asked people what they thought Bond was from 1995 to 2002, you'd get the regular blanket statements that pop culture expects Bond to be, which are really just copy and pastes of stuff Sean did. He's the action man, he sleeps with a lot of women, yada yada. I think the notions of Bond and who he is have changed since 2006, however, and in a much more gratifying way for me, because the character I love has his urgency and importance back that I don't feel was deserved for patches in his legacy. People think Bond is too above having films that aren't afraid to be actual films, but I think it's quite frankly a bullshit statement.

    The Craig era has made a very conscious decision to return to what worked at the very beginning of the series in movies like DN, FRWL, TB and OHMSS before it all lost its way and became a mere entertainment vehicle. Before the big change the scripts used character and theme in a shockingly ahead of its time way in entertainment cinema. The Bond women had actual dimension to them, despite their obvious beauty, and were treated seriously in the plots. Bond as a man was given actual time to be a dimensional character on screen, and react to the events that were happening to him in credible ways. It was an enterprise that was built on strong actors, strong writers, directors (essentially Young and Hunt with minor sprinkles of Hamilton), cinematographers and choreographers who created the most pure films that there has ever been. With parts of GF, most of YOLT and all the rest some of this this vision was lost, but at its core Bond started as true cinema that was shockingly mature, well crafted and, dare I say it, intellectual and rich. The films didn't treat their audiences as fools, and presented stories that were lurid, dangerous and rich in theme and motif, trusting that people would get the extra depth to the story that was there if they wanted to look deeper.

    The Craig era has been motivated further by a time in the industry that values the approach the best of the 60s films had, and has then been able to really take it to the next level and push that vision more and more. Once again, the scripts treat Bond as an actual character: a sphere, not a circle. Once again, stories with actual theme and motif and messages are being told that are fully committed to by the team without embarrassment or restraint. Once again, a certain prestige and power has been restored to what we see on the screen. I think we can see some of this in the bits of backlash some critics had for SP. They saw a series that'd innovated in the past films partially reverting to some aspects of Bond's cinematic past, and they hated the film for it. Like a grown up trying to fit into the clothes they wore as an infant, it was apparent that a shocking majority felt Bond has outgrown a lot of the formula that he'd had to coast on for so long. People don't want to see the same old same old anymore, as the films in the past decade have proven that he has more to give. The character, the depth, the stories, all of it. And I'm glad the team at EON weren't embarrassed to embrace that opportunity to truly do something that has caused a reconsideration of the function of James Bond as a part of cinema.

    I don't doubt it, Brady, everything you mention here is true, I expect. There are objective measures by which the films have improved and matured, however I think its jumping the gun to say "Craig reinvented the franchise". It paints a picture of Craig being a leading force in the changes that were made, and I just don't see that connection. EON hired Craig because they had determined to make those changes already, not the other way around. They already knew that the formula they had been working from for 40 years needed a rest, and they would have to step out of their comfort zone. That wasn't something that Craig brought to the table, in my eyes.

    I find the many manifold similarities between the Craig and Brosnan eras fascinating, but even more fascinating are the ways in which they are opposites. When Brosnan entered the scene, EON were solely focused on making Bond commercially viable again. Despite how Brosnan felt, they weren't interested in taking risks - not proper ones. If Craig had somehow landed the role back then, he would've been in the exact same position as Brosnan was. However, by the time of 2005 Bond's commercial viability was more than assured. If Brosnan had stepped in then, with EON ready to take the risks - nay, HAVING to take the risks, then he would be being credited now with reinventing things.

    What annoys me is the idea that Craig came in and orchestrated his Bond better than the other actors did. If that is true, it is only down to the fact that he had the good fortune to arrive when he did. Because if he had arrived in 1995, he would have gotten stonewalled just as Brosnan did. This supposed ability he posesses to reinvent the franchise would have been entirely neutured. That's why I view the constant comparisons to Connery a little embarrassing for those voicing them. Connery had a extremely limited team, low budget and created a phenomenon. Craig was not in an anyway near comparable position when he started.

    Who said 'reinvented the franchise'? Because I didn't. I said, 'redefined the role'. Which is exactly what he did post-Brosnan. You're doing some incredible bullshit gymnastics to stiff Craig out of the kudos he completely deserves.

    I'm not the one arguing semantics. My argument still stands - Brosnan and Dalton would've killed to get the script and direction of Casino when they were Bond. It's exactly what they were hoping for and never got. If Craig did reinvent the role, it was because an actor was finally afforded the opportunity.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    The big difference is, neither Moore, Dalton or Brosnan tried to be Connery. Craig does, desperately so at times and is helped by EON who obviously realised early Craig has no own Bond identity.

    Craig redefined the role. To suggest he had no identity is just another laughable and baseless comment in the long list you appear to be racking up.

    There are lots of those niche opinions that gain traction over time, and the fact that Craig is still Bond is distorting things. Once someone new is in the role, then the "Craig is the second coming of Connery" theories can truly be tested out. Ultimately its not just a matter of how brightly the candle burns, but for how long. You can guess that Craig will be just as popular in 20 years from now, but ultimately its just a guess. There were plenty who thought Brosnan was the best Bond ever when he left the role - I remember that being a distinct sentiment. How do we know that in 20 years the Craig films won't have lost their lustre and become viewed as boring melodramas? It's a case of not jumping the gun and having the patience.

    I don't think @RC7 is jumping the gun, he's just noting a change I see too. I think it's undeniable to say that the series post-06 has changed in the eyes of the public in many ways, and has sent ripples through its own industry. The golden time of the series was the 60s, and that was kind of it. After that point we got workman directors and decent casts, though nothing truly interesting was being done amidst the attempts to make GF over and over again or to try and give an actor new material without supporting them all the way. At some point, we hit DAD and it's the perfect example of thinking bigger is always better, and that audiences will accept anything you throw at them, as seemed to be the mantra for a while anyway.

    With Craig on board Bond is actually viewed as a character for the first time in a long time, beyond a mere action man or blank slate that entertainment is created with. He develops from film to film and Dan has been able to play an ever-changing Bond beautifully in a way that was never tried (nor would it have been as successful regardless). He was the perfect Bond to lead the change of movie heroes in films that took their source material serious and wanted to tell actual stories with credibility and depth. Since Dan has been Bond you can't avoid hearing about big stars and directors of the A-list variety clawing at a chance to direct one of these movies because they see that Bond is actually worth their time now, and that the movies can transcend simple minded entertainment to become really impressive stories. Christopher Nolan wouldn't be eager to direct Brosnan in a Bond movie, for instance, but in a post-Craig world where a Bond taken seriously shows proven success? You're damn right he'd love the keys to that castle. It's not just Dan that was able to redefine what Bond is today, however, it's the whole team. The cinematographers that've created some of the most, if not the most, beautiful Bond films ever, providing an artistry and power of visual storytelling not seen since-you guessed it-the 60s. The directors and writers who dared to tell stories with an emphasis on character, theme and motif that we hadn't seen done properly since-you know what's coming-the 60s.

    If you asked people what they thought Bond was from 1995 to 2002, you'd get the regular blanket statements that pop culture expects Bond to be, which are really just copy and pastes of stuff Sean did. He's the action man, he sleeps with a lot of women, yada yada. I think the notions of Bond and who he is have changed since 2006, however, and in a much more gratifying way for me, because the character I love has his urgency and importance back that I don't feel was deserved for patches in his legacy. People think Bond is too above having films that aren't afraid to be actual films, but I think it's quite frankly a bullshit statement.

    The Craig era has made a very conscious decision to return to what worked at the very beginning of the series in movies like DN, FRWL, TB and OHMSS before it all lost its way and became a mere entertainment vehicle. Before the big change the scripts used character and theme in a shockingly ahead of its time way in entertainment cinema. The Bond women had actual dimension to them, despite their obvious beauty, and were treated seriously in the plots. Bond as a man was given actual time to be a dimensional character on screen, and react to the events that were happening to him in credible ways. It was an enterprise that was built on strong actors, strong writers, directors (essentially Young and Hunt with minor sprinkles of Hamilton), cinematographers and choreographers who created the most pure films that there has ever been. With parts of GF, most of YOLT and all the rest some of this this vision was lost, but at its core Bond started as true cinema that was shockingly mature, well crafted and, dare I say it, intellectual and rich. The films didn't treat their audiences as fools, and presented stories that were lurid, dangerous and rich in theme and motif, trusting that people would get the extra depth to the story that was there if they wanted to look deeper.

    The Craig era has been motivated further by a time in the industry that values the approach the best of the 60s films had, and has then been able to really take it to the next level and push that vision more and more. Once again, the scripts treat Bond as an actual character: a sphere, not a circle. Once again, stories with actual theme and motif and messages are being told that are fully committed to by the team without embarrassment or restraint. Once again, a certain prestige and power has been restored to what we see on the screen. I think we can see some of this in the bits of backlash some critics had for SP. They saw a series that'd innovated in the past films partially reverting to some aspects of Bond's cinematic past, and they hated the film for it. Like a grown up trying to fit into the clothes they wore as an infant, it was apparent that a shocking majority felt Bond has outgrown a lot of the formula that he'd had to coast on for so long. People don't want to see the same old same old anymore, as the films in the past decade have proven that he has more to give. The character, the depth, the stories, all of it. And I'm glad the team at EON weren't embarrassed to embrace that opportunity to truly do something that has caused a reconsideration of the function of James Bond as a part of cinema.

    I don't doubt it, Brady, everything you mention here is true, I expect. There are objective measures by which the films have improved and matured, however I think its jumping the gun to say "Craig reinvented the franchise". It paints a picture of Craig being a leading force in the changes that were made, and I just don't see that connection. EON hired Craig because they had determined to make those changes already, not the other way around. They already knew that the formula they had been working from for 40 years needed a rest, and they would have to step out of their comfort zone. That wasn't something that Craig brought to the table, in my eyes.

    I find the many manifold similarities between the Craig and Brosnan eras fascinating, but even more fascinating are the ways in which they are opposites. When Brosnan entered the scene, EON were solely focused on making Bond commercially viable again. Despite how Brosnan felt, they weren't interested in taking risks - not proper ones. If Craig had somehow landed the role back then, he would've been in the exact same position as Brosnan was. However, by the time of 2005 Bond's commercial viability was more than assured. If Brosnan had stepped in then, with EON ready to take the risks - nay, HAVING to take the risks, then he would be being credited now with reinventing things.

    What annoys me is the idea that Craig came in and orchestrated his Bond better than the other actors did. If that is true, it is only down to the fact that he had the good fortune to arrive when he did. Because if he had arrived in 1995, he would have gotten stonewalled just as Brosnan did. This supposed ability he posesses to reinvent the franchise would have been entirely neutured. That's why I view the constant comparisons to Connery a little embarrassing for those voicing them. Connery had a extremely limited team, low budget and created a phenomenon. Craig was not in an anyway near comparable position when he started.

    Who said 'reinvented the franchise'? Because I didn't. I said, 'redefined the role'. Which is exactly what he did post-Brosnan. You're doing some incredible bullshit gymnastics to stiff Craig out of the kudos he completely deserves.

    I'm not the one arguing semantics. My argument still stands - Brosnan and Dalton would've killed to get the script and direction of Casino when they were Bond. It's exactly what they were hoping for and never got. If Craig did reinvent the role, it was because an actor was finally afforded the opportunity.

    And that fact remains, Craig 'was' afforded that opportunity. This is the old, 'If only me auntie 'ad bollocks, she'd be me uncle' argument. Flaccid and agenda driven.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited May 2017 Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote: »
    The big difference is, neither Moore, Dalton or Brosnan tried to be Connery. Craig does, desperately so at times and is helped by EON who obviously realised early Craig has no own Bond identity.

    Craig redefined the role. To suggest he had no identity is just another laughable and baseless comment in the long list you appear to be racking up.

    There are lots of those niche opinions that gain traction over time, and the fact that Craig is still Bond is distorting things. Once someone new is in the role, then the "Craig is the second coming of Connery" theories can truly be tested out. Ultimately its not just a matter of how brightly the candle burns, but for how long. You can guess that Craig will be just as popular in 20 years from now, but ultimately its just a guess. There were plenty who thought Brosnan was the best Bond ever when he left the role - I remember that being a distinct sentiment. How do we know that in 20 years the Craig films won't have lost their lustre and become viewed as boring melodramas? It's a case of not jumping the gun and having the patience.

    I don't think @RC7 is jumping the gun, he's just noting a change I see too. I think it's undeniable to say that the series post-06 has changed in the eyes of the public in many ways, and has sent ripples through its own industry. The golden time of the series was the 60s, and that was kind of it. After that point we got workman directors and decent casts, though nothing truly interesting was being done amidst the attempts to make GF over and over again or to try and give an actor new material without supporting them all the way. At some point, we hit DAD and it's the perfect example of thinking bigger is always better, and that audiences will accept anything you throw at them, as seemed to be the mantra for a while anyway.

    With Craig on board Bond is actually viewed as a character for the first time in a long time, beyond a mere action man or blank slate that entertainment is created with. He develops from film to film and Dan has been able to play an ever-changing Bond beautifully in a way that was never tried (nor would it have been as successful regardless). He was the perfect Bond to lead the change of movie heroes in films that took their source material serious and wanted to tell actual stories with credibility and depth. Since Dan has been Bond you can't avoid hearing about big stars and directors of the A-list variety clawing at a chance to direct one of these movies because they see that Bond is actually worth their time now, and that the movies can transcend simple minded entertainment to become really impressive stories. Christopher Nolan wouldn't be eager to direct Brosnan in a Bond movie, for instance, but in a post-Craig world where a Bond taken seriously shows proven success? You're damn right he'd love the keys to that castle. It's not just Dan that was able to redefine what Bond is today, however, it's the whole team. The cinematographers that've created some of the most, if not the most, beautiful Bond films ever, providing an artistry and power of visual storytelling not seen since-you guessed it-the 60s. The directors and writers who dared to tell stories with an emphasis on character, theme and motif that we hadn't seen done properly since-you know what's coming-the 60s.

    If you asked people what they thought Bond was from 1995 to 2002, you'd get the regular blanket statements that pop culture expects Bond to be, which are really just copy and pastes of stuff Sean did. He's the action man, he sleeps with a lot of women, yada yada. I think the notions of Bond and who he is have changed since 2006, however, and in a much more gratifying way for me, because the character I love has his urgency and importance back that I don't feel was deserved for patches in his legacy. People think Bond is too above having films that aren't afraid to be actual films, but I think it's quite frankly a bullshit statement.

    The Craig era has made a very conscious decision to return to what worked at the very beginning of the series in movies like DN, FRWL, TB and OHMSS before it all lost its way and became a mere entertainment vehicle. Before the big change the scripts used character and theme in a shockingly ahead of its time way in entertainment cinema. The Bond women had actual dimension to them, despite their obvious beauty, and were treated seriously in the plots. Bond as a man was given actual time to be a dimensional character on screen, and react to the events that were happening to him in credible ways. It was an enterprise that was built on strong actors, strong writers, directors (essentially Young and Hunt with minor sprinkles of Hamilton), cinematographers and choreographers who created the most pure films that there has ever been. With parts of GF, most of YOLT and all the rest some of this this vision was lost, but at its core Bond started as true cinema that was shockingly mature, well crafted and, dare I say it, intellectual and rich. The films didn't treat their audiences as fools, and presented stories that were lurid, dangerous and rich in theme and motif, trusting that people would get the extra depth to the story that was there if they wanted to look deeper.

    The Craig era has been motivated further by a time in the industry that values the approach the best of the 60s films had, and has then been able to really take it to the next level and push that vision more and more. Once again, the scripts treat Bond as an actual character: a sphere, not a circle. Once again, stories with actual theme and motif and messages are being told that are fully committed to by the team without embarrassment or restraint. Once again, a certain prestige and power has been restored to what we see on the screen. I think we can see some of this in the bits of backlash some critics had for SP. They saw a series that'd innovated in the past films partially reverting to some aspects of Bond's cinematic past, and they hated the film for it. Like a grown up trying to fit into the clothes they wore as an infant, it was apparent that a shocking majority felt Bond has outgrown a lot of the formula that he'd had to coast on for so long. People don't want to see the same old same old anymore, as the films in the past decade have proven that he has more to give. The character, the depth, the stories, all of it. And I'm glad the team at EON weren't embarrassed to embrace that opportunity to truly do something that has caused a reconsideration of the function of James Bond as a part of cinema.

    I don't doubt it, Brady, everything you mention here is true, I expect. There are objective measures by which the films have improved and matured, however I think its jumping the gun to say "Craig reinvented the franchise". It paints a picture of Craig being a leading force in the changes that were made, and I just don't see that connection. EON hired Craig because they had determined to make those changes already, not the other way around. They already knew that the formula they had been working from for 40 years needed a rest, and they would have to step out of their comfort zone. That wasn't something that Craig brought to the table, in my eyes.

    I find the many manifold similarities between the Craig and Brosnan eras fascinating, but even more fascinating are the ways in which they are opposites. When Brosnan entered the scene, EON were solely focused on making Bond commercially viable again. Despite how Brosnan felt, they weren't interested in taking risks - not proper ones. If Craig had somehow landed the role back then, he would've been in the exact same position as Brosnan was. However, by the time of 2005 Bond's commercial viability was more than assured. If Brosnan had stepped in then, with EON ready to take the risks - nay, HAVING to take the risks, then he would be being credited now with reinventing things.

    What annoys me is the idea that Craig came in and orchestrated his Bond better than the other actors did. If that is true, it is only down to the fact that he had the good fortune to arrive when he did. Because if he had arrived in 1995, he would have gotten stonewalled just as Brosnan did. This supposed ability he posesses to reinvent the franchise would have been entirely neutured. That's why I view the constant comparisons to Connery a little embarrassing for those voicing them. Connery had a extremely limited team, low budget and created a phenomenon. Craig was not in an anyway near comparable position when he started.

    @Mendes4Lyfe, I didn't say Craig and Craig alone redefined things. It's why I explicitly mentioned him and his team that backed him up to give the films the feeling they did. Barbara and Michael at the top, Arnold, Campbell, Lamont, Gassner, Mendes, Forster, Deakins, Hoytema, etc all the way down. Filmmaking is always a team effort, obviously, and any great actor needs a good cast and crew to support him. It's never a one man show. Which is partially why I feel the way I do about the Craig era and see it as a return to how things were done, as no teams since 1969 have shown me such results across the board.

    Dan's ability to do what he did is no doubt down to what EON want, and they were able to compromise. I don't think that invalidates anything he's done, though. He and Barbara had meetings right at the start to talk about where they could take his movies, as he wanted to experiment and do a Bond film that hadn't been seen in a long time with a different angle on Bond. It wasn't just Dan working to do what EON wanted, they built it all around what he wanted. Dan is involved in all parts of the process of making his films for a reason, and works like an actual producer (of which he's now credited in the series) to take the vision where he and the team all want it to go. So his decisions and his views do have a dramatic impact on what his movies are at the end of the day. He controls what Bond wears, he's had input on all the scripts (and even helped write here and there), he's gotten cast and crew like Bardem and Mendes to join the team, and so many more examples on top of essentially being a stuntman and member of the costume department. He's more responsible for crafting his version of Bond than any other before, easily, and the team backing him knew how to support him and really push his strengths. His dramatic ability, his physicality, his dry wit, etc. It was never about him being a slave like Brosnan was. His voice was heard the moment they auditioned him, and the era has always gone where he wanted. It's why some people get so sassy about EON these days. They're upset about all the control he has, and the unending power he's had to make his films what they are, as Cubby preferred a tighter leash.

    I also don't think it's fair to say Dan just stumbled into his position. He has the advantage he has, sure, but nobody will ever have the advantage Sean did at his beginning. He had the best composer we've had in Barry, the best directors in Young and Hunt, the best writer in Maibaum, some of the best cinematographers in Freddie Young and Ted Moore, the best tailor in Anthony Sinclair, the best set designer in Ken Adam, the definitive M, Moneypenny and Q, the most iconic Bond girls, and on and on and on. Almost everything about Connery's films and OHMSS have a team working on them where all the major players are either the far and away best person who ever worked in their department in the series, or who would easily be in the top 3 in the entire 50 years of the series. That 60s team is unlike anything we'll ever see, and they accomplished films that will never be surpassed as iconic pieces. Sean had the advantage of a perfect team, and the films came at the perfect time. Being the first in the door, EON in the 60s could do anything they wanted without the movies being called rip-offs or unoriginal, as nothing existed before them.

    Dan has had nothing similar to that despite his strong team. And despite the massive luck, perfect timing and perfect team Sean had that supported him and framed the most influential films of the series, I don't use all those unending advantages to say that he as a Bond actor doesn't deserve his acclaim or argue that he wasn't all that. If Connery came at the wrong time like Dan could've he wouldn't be in those iconic films, and wouldn't be given the massive advantage he had either. Timing works both ways. Dan arrives when EON don't want to risk anything, maybe films like CR and SF don't get made. If Sean missed out on the 60s and came in the 70s, he'd never have gotten the iconic and trend-setting films he had.

    But both are great for how they worked for their teams the way they needed to at the time. It's timing and circumstance, of course, but how the chips fell is how they fell and that's all I care about discussing. The what-is, not what-if, as hypotheticals are meaningless. And what I see is a dramatic return to a Bond I thought was dead via Craig and his team.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    The big difference is, neither Moore, Dalton or Brosnan tried to be Connery. Craig does, desperately so at times and is helped by EON who obviously realised early Craig has no own Bond identity.

    Craig redefined the role. To suggest he had no identity is just another laughable and baseless comment in the long list you appear to be racking up.

    There are lots of those niche opinions that gain traction over time, and the fact that Craig is still Bond is distorting things. Once someone new is in the role, then the "Craig is the second coming of Connery" theories can truly be tested out. Ultimately its not just a matter of how brightly the candle burns, but for how long. You can guess that Craig will be just as popular in 20 years from now, but ultimately its just a guess. There were plenty who thought Brosnan was the best Bond ever when he left the role - I remember that being a distinct sentiment. How do we know that in 20 years the Craig films won't have lost their lustre and become viewed as boring melodramas? It's a case of not jumping the gun and having the patience.

    I don't think @RC7 is jumping the gun, he's just noting a change I see too. I think it's undeniable to say that the series post-06 has changed in the eyes of the public in many ways, and has sent ripples through its own industry. The golden time of the series was the 60s, and that was kind of it. After that point we got workman directors and decent casts, though nothing truly interesting was being done amidst the attempts to make GF over and over again or to try and give an actor new material without supporting them all the way. At some point, we hit DAD and it's the perfect example of thinking bigger is always better, and that audiences will accept anything you throw at them, as seemed to be the mantra for a while anyway.

    With Craig on board Bond is actually viewed as a character for the first time in a long time, beyond a mere action man or blank slate that entertainment is created with. He develops from film to film and Dan has been able to play an ever-changing Bond beautifully in a way that was never tried (nor would it have been as successful regardless). He was the perfect Bond to lead the change of movie heroes in films that took their source material serious and wanted to tell actual stories with credibility and depth. Since Dan has been Bond you can't avoid hearing about big stars and directors of the A-list variety clawing at a chance to direct one of these movies because they see that Bond is actually worth their time now, and that the movies can transcend simple minded entertainment to become really impressive stories. Christopher Nolan wouldn't be eager to direct Brosnan in a Bond movie, for instance, but in a post-Craig world where a Bond taken seriously shows proven success? You're damn right he'd love the keys to that castle. It's not just Dan that was able to redefine what Bond is today, however, it's the whole team. The cinematographers that've created some of the most, if not the most, beautiful Bond films ever, providing an artistry and power of visual storytelling not seen since-you guessed it-the 60s. The directors and writers who dared to tell stories with an emphasis on character, theme and motif that we hadn't seen done properly since-you know what's coming-the 60s.

    If you asked people what they thought Bond was from 1995 to 2002, you'd get the regular blanket statements that pop culture expects Bond to be, which are really just copy and pastes of stuff Sean did. He's the action man, he sleeps with a lot of women, yada yada. I think the notions of Bond and who he is have changed since 2006, however, and in a much more gratifying way for me, because the character I love has his urgency and importance back that I don't feel was deserved for patches in his legacy. People think Bond is too above having films that aren't afraid to be actual films, but I think it's quite frankly a bullshit statement.

    The Craig era has made a very conscious decision to return to what worked at the very beginning of the series in movies like DN, FRWL, TB and OHMSS before it all lost its way and became a mere entertainment vehicle. Before the big change the scripts used character and theme in a shockingly ahead of its time way in entertainment cinema. The Bond women had actual dimension to them, despite their obvious beauty, and were treated seriously in the plots. Bond as a man was given actual time to be a dimensional character on screen, and react to the events that were happening to him in credible ways. It was an enterprise that was built on strong actors, strong writers, directors (essentially Young and Hunt with minor sprinkles of Hamilton), cinematographers and choreographers who created the most pure films that there has ever been. With parts of GF, most of YOLT and all the rest some of this this vision was lost, but at its core Bond started as true cinema that was shockingly mature, well crafted and, dare I say it, intellectual and rich. The films didn't treat their audiences as fools, and presented stories that were lurid, dangerous and rich in theme and motif, trusting that people would get the extra depth to the story that was there if they wanted to look deeper.

    The Craig era has been motivated further by a time in the industry that values the approach the best of the 60s films had, and has then been able to really take it to the next level and push that vision more and more. Once again, the scripts treat Bond as an actual character: a sphere, not a circle. Once again, stories with actual theme and motif and messages are being told that are fully committed to by the team without embarrassment or restraint. Once again, a certain prestige and power has been restored to what we see on the screen. I think we can see some of this in the bits of backlash some critics had for SP. They saw a series that'd innovated in the past films partially reverting to some aspects of Bond's cinematic past, and they hated the film for it. Like a grown up trying to fit into the clothes they wore as an infant, it was apparent that a shocking majority felt Bond has outgrown a lot of the formula that he'd had to coast on for so long. People don't want to see the same old same old anymore, as the films in the past decade have proven that he has more to give. The character, the depth, the stories, all of it. And I'm glad the team at EON weren't embarrassed to embrace that opportunity to truly do something that has caused a reconsideration of the function of James Bond as a part of cinema.

    I don't doubt it, Brady, everything you mention here is true, I expect. There are objective measures by which the films have improved and matured, however I think its jumping the gun to say "Craig reinvented the franchise". It paints a picture of Craig being a leading force in the changes that were made, and I just don't see that connection. EON hired Craig because they had determined to make those changes already, not the other way around. They already knew that the formula they had been working from for 40 years needed a rest, and they would have to step out of their comfort zone. That wasn't something that Craig brought to the table, in my eyes.

    I find the many manifold similarities between the Craig and Brosnan eras fascinating, but even more fascinating are the ways in which they are opposites. When Brosnan entered the scene, EON were solely focused on making Bond commercially viable again. Despite how Brosnan felt, they weren't interested in taking risks - not proper ones. If Craig had somehow landed the role back then, he would've been in the exact same position as Brosnan was. However, by the time of 2005 Bond's commercial viability was more than assured. If Brosnan had stepped in then, with EON ready to take the risks - nay, HAVING to take the risks, then he would be being credited now with reinventing things.

    What annoys me is the idea that Craig came in and orchestrated his Bond better than the other actors did. If that is true, it is only down to the fact that he had the good fortune to arrive when he did. Because if he had arrived in 1995, he would have gotten stonewalled just as Brosnan did. This supposed ability he posesses to reinvent the franchise would have been entirely neutured. That's why I view the constant comparisons to Connery a little embarrassing for those voicing them. Connery had a extremely limited team, low budget and created a phenomenon. Craig was not in an anyway near comparable position when he started.

    Who said 'reinvented the franchise'? Because I didn't. I said, 'redefined the role'. Which is exactly what he did post-Brosnan. You're doing some incredible bullshit gymnastics to stiff Craig out of the kudos he completely deserves.

    I'm not the one arguing semantics. My argument still stands - Brosnan and Dalton would've killed to get the script and direction of Casino when they were Bond. It's exactly what they were hoping for and never got. If Craig did reinvent the role, it was because an actor was finally afforded the opportunity.

    And that fact remains, Craig 'was' afforded that opportunity. This is the old, 'If only me auntie 'ad bollocks, she'd be me uncle' argument. Flaccid and agenda driven.

    @RC7, I was just as confused. As I mentioned in an above post, Sean had the best team of the entire series far and away, but we don't use that as an opportunity to say he wasn't great on his own. It would be a myopic and very blind statement if you argued that Sean was only great because he had the best team there to help him in every department. It's just as uneducated and bonkers to say the same about Craig.

    Why piss on the Bond actors and their obvious talents for the great people that helped them at the right time? It's hysterical.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I find the comparisons between the iconic, pop culture defining Connery and Craig a bit daft.

    By all means feel free to big up Dan, but these comparisons, similar to ones made when Brosnan were around, tend to ring hollow after a few years.

    Give it a couple of decades and then come back and reassess. I'm sure Dan will remain a popular Bond amongst many fans, but by then the dust will have settled and perspective will have allowed for some more sober judgments on his era.

    I suspect he will be seen as one of the better Bonds but perhaps not as different or radical as some now feel.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited May 2017 Posts: 28,694
    Getafix wrote: »
    I find the comparisons between the iconic, pop culture defining Connery and Craig a bit daft.

    By all means feel free to big up Dan, but these comparisons, similar to ones made when Brosnan were around, tend to ring hollow after a few years.

    Give it a couple of decades and then come back and reassess. I'm sure Dan will remain a popular Bond amongst many fans, but by then the dust will have settled and perspective will have allowed for some more sober judgments on his era.

    I suspect he will be seen as one of the better Bonds but perhaps not as different or radical as some now feel.

    @Getafix, I don't think you're reading the arguments straight. I or no other Craig supporters here are saying his movies overtake Sean's iconic ones; why bother comparing? I simply feel they are the best option since that point and excel in the same mission statement of strong characters, deeper scripts, artistic style, etc. Nowhere in there would anyone claim Craig or his films would take the place of Sean.

    I don't think it's a hard point to argue that Dan's era has been refreshing since all this time, as George was one and done, the Moore films were so far their own way they became something else, Dalton's films never had consistency or longevity, Brosnan's had no consistency or much of anything else of notes. It's not hard for Dan to come in second in that case, to me, as the handle of the series was always greasy post-OHMSS. At least in this era the films knew what they were.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Hmm. Depends how much you like the Craig era I suppose. I've enjoyed most of it and like DC but stil prefer almost everything up til 1989.

    I just think you're over egging how amazing Dan is.

    But yes I will definitley concede that in 2006 CR was refreshing. Having said that, it's dififcult to see what other direction EON could have taken. If anything they were rather slow to realise that the trajectory they were on previously was utterly tired and dated.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Getafix wrote: »
    Hmm. Depends how much you like the Craig era I suppose. I've enjoyed most of it and like DC but stil prefer almost everything up til 1989.

    I just think you're over egging how amazing Dan is.

    But yes I will definitley concede that in 2006 CR was refreshing. Having said that, it's dififcult to see what other direction EON could have taken. If anything they were rather slow to realise that the trajectory they were on previously was utterly tired and dated.

    Well, EON could've just done the same thing, without change. Basically like they did from 73 to 2002 in many ways. This isn't a series known for taking risks, as much as I wish it was.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 11,189
    DELETE
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Craig's put his own spin on the role, there's no doubt about that. So did all the other actors, including Brosnan.

    Craig was given more of a blank slate because of the reboot idea to redefine Bond, and he took the baton and ran with it. Kudos to him.

    I feel he has done a very good job of it, but he has also boxed himself in because of how good he has been. Attempts to meld his approach with the old school tradition didn't work for me precisely because I bought into his reinterpretation of the role.

    Having said that, his interpretation is precisely that. His. Once he is replaced, the next actor will bring his own, as they all have.

    In terms of the comparisons to Connery, I find them inappropriate. Sean is what made DN what it was (along with Young and Adam) and created a phenomenon. He stood out and shone bright like no actor before or since in my humble view. When I watched CR recently, I realized it really was a team effort in full flow, just like GE & TSWLM were previously. A case of EON firing on all cylinders as a team (production, direction, casting, score, title track, sets etc. etc. etc.). A statement of intent from the most beloved of long running franchises.

    That's what I want for B25. A statement of intent. A throwing down of the guantlet. A staking of territory. So that all pretenders know where they stand. I leave it to others to interpret what that can mean, because everyone will have their own interpretation based on their own preferences and biases, including most of all myself.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Getafix wrote: »
    Hmm. Depends how much you like the Craig era I suppose. I've enjoyed most of it and like DC but stil prefer almost everything up til 1989.

    I just think you're over egging how amazing Dan is.

    For me it's not about over egging Dan's ability, it's about recognising the impact he had. To claim, as was stated here, that DC has no identity of his own as Bond is false.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Totally agree. Dan has brought his own take.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2017 Posts: 8,395
    delete.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 984
    Its gonna be tough for whoever comes in to replace Craig in the future after what Craig has done to the role of Bond.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    imranbecks wrote: »
    Its gonna be tough for whoever comes in to replace Craig in the future after what Craig has done to the role of Bond.

    Fully agreed
  • Posts: 11,425
    There's always scope to try something different. Or try and capture something closer to the old school movies.

    Still think period films are one option
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Getafix wrote: »
    There's always scope to try something different. Or try and capture something closer to the old school movies.

    Still think period films are one option

    I say with complete confidence it would be franchise ending.
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    I completely agree with the above poster about Craig being an amalgam of Dalton and Lazenby.

    The thing is, to criticize Brosnan for being a cross of Moore and Connery is redundant.

    By the time Broz got the role, every possible way of portraying Bond had been done.

    Connery was the arrogant, cocky Bond. Lazenby was the tough but sensetive Bond. Moore was the smooth, laid back Bond, Dalton was the cold, detached Bond. What else could Brosnan, or for that matter Craig do that hasnt already been done?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    This hag thread is back from the dead again?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Roadphill wrote: »
    I completely agree with the above poster about Craig being an amalgam of Dalton and Lazenby.

    The thing is, to criticize Brosnan for being a cross of Moore and Connery is redundant.

    By the time Broz got the role, every possible way of portraying Bond had been done.

    Connery was the arrogant, cocky Bond. Lazenby was the tough but sensetive Bond. Moore was the smooth, laid back Bond, Dalton was the cold, detached Bond. What else could Brosnan, or for that matter Craig do that hasnt already been done?

    Yes, and Bond actor 007 will be an amalgam of Craig and Brosnan, then the triangle will be complete.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Roadphill wrote: »
    I completely agree with the above poster about Craig being an amalgam of Dalton and Lazenby.

    The thing is, to criticize Brosnan for being a cross of Moore and Connery is redundant.

    By the time Broz got the role, every possible way of portraying Bond had been done.

    Connery was the arrogant, cocky Bond. Lazenby was the tough but sensetive Bond. Moore was the smooth, laid back Bond, Dalton was the cold, detached Bond. What else could Brosnan, or for that matter Craig do that hasnt already been done?
    Brosan has admitted that he was caught between Connery and Moore when he played Bond. He looked up to both of them, and wanted to capture their spirit in his performance.

    His tenure has clearly demonstrated to me the perils of this approach. It's better to find oneself early and deliver a unique take on the character which comes from within. The audience will either like one's interpretation or not, but it will at least ring true and be genuine. This is what Dalton did in his 2nd and what Craig did in his first 2 in particular, imho.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Craig is an amalgam Bond just like Brosnan. Neither really bring anything new to the table and there''s nothing wrong with that either. It's about refinement, and I think the next person to play Bond will be the ultimate blend. I believe this because, as an amalgam of Craig and Brosnan, Bond actor 007 will contain a piece of all the previous actors by proxy.
  • edited June 2017 Posts: 2,266
    bondjames wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    I completely agree with the above poster about Craig being an amalgam of Dalton and Lazenby.

    The thing is, to criticize Brosnan for being a cross of Moore and Connery is redundant.

    By the time Broz got the role, every possible way of portraying Bond had been done.

    Connery was the arrogant, cocky Bond. Lazenby was the tough but sensetive Bond. Moore was the smooth, laid back Bond, Dalton was the cold, detached Bond. What else could Brosnan, or for that matter Craig do that hasnt already been done?
    Brosan has admitted that he was caught between Connery and Moore when he played Bond. He looked up to both of them, and wanted to capture their spirit in his performance.

    His tenure has clearly demonstrated to me the perils of this approach. It's better to find oneself early and deliver a unique take on the character which comes from within. The audience will either like one's interpretation or not, but it will at least ring true and be genuine. This is what Dalton did in his 2nd and what Craig did in his first 2 in particular, imho.

    I think had Brosnan played Bond like he played other characters in other movies he's done such as The Thomas Crown Affair, The Maditator, The November Man, etc. he would have been a tough ass Bond. I like his approach to playing Bond, and one could argue the same thing of Craig, he went for the Lazenby/Dalton style performance, then he evolved into the Connery style Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Roadphill wrote: »
    I completely agree with the above poster about Craig being an amalgam of Dalton and Lazenby.

    The thing is, to criticize Brosnan for being a cross of Moore and Connery is redundant.

    By the time Broz got the role, every possible way of portraying Bond had been done.

    Connery was the arrogant, cocky Bond. Lazenby was the tough but sensetive Bond. Moore was the smooth, laid back Bond, Dalton was the cold, detached Bond. What else could Brosnan, or for that matter Craig do that hasnt already been done?
    Brosan has admitted that he was caught between Connery and Moore when he played Bond. He looked up to both of them, and wanted to capture their spirit in his performance.

    His tenure has clearly demonstrated to me the perils of this approach. It's better to find oneself early and deliver a unique take on the character which comes from within. The audience will either like one's interpretation or not, but it will at least ring true and be genuine. This is what Dalton did in his 2nd and what Craig did in his first 2 in particular, imho.

    I think had Brosnan played Bond like he played other characters in other movies he's done such as The Thomas Crown Affair, The Maditator, The November Man, etc. he would have been a tough ass Bond. I like his approach to playing Bond, and one could argue the same thing of Craig, he went for the Lazenby/Dalton style performance, then he evolved into the Connery style Bond.
    Brosnan found his footing (finally) in DAD imho. It's a very good performance by him (particularly in the earlier half). Arrogant, nonchalant, but still very smooth. Unlike others, I wouldn't have wanted him to play Bond like he did Osnard in The Tailor of Panama or Devereaux in The November Man. Those characters are more expressive and erratic (emotionally and theatrically Dalton'esque even). Bond has to remain 'cool'. Brosnan in DAD was a good Bond, and I wish he could have refined it in one more.

    I'm afraid I don't see Craig evolving into any Connery in his later performances. There was more Connery in Craig's work in CR than anything in SP, in my view. He hit it out of the park in his first two.
  • Posts: 1,165
    This discussion has gone so far off topic now. Is this thread really necessary mods?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Thought police in trying to close down discussion again? How do you define a 'necessary' discussion?
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