The World War II Discussion Thread.

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  • Posts: 19,339
    It will indeed be interesting.
    If they are allowed to take it then will the British Government step and try to take a sizeable chunk,i wonder ?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    You've got taxes for that, don't you ;-)
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    I love learning about WWII. So much in fact that I hope we get a sequel to it...

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    @QsAssistant don't worry, the Americans are working on that too. I'm just not very convinced they got the right one to play dictator though. And there's a continuity error on who's the goodies and the baddies, but no doubt these are just small problems ;-)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,344
    @QsAssistant don't worry, the Americans are working on that too. I'm just not very convinced they got the right one to play dictator though. And there's a continuity error on who's the goodies and the baddies, but no doubt these are just small problems ;-)

    Yes, I'm sure we can get those small matters ironed out in time for the fireworks show!
  • Posts: 19,339
    This may be truer than we think :/
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    I'm a big WW2 history buff. I look forward to contributing to the thread.

    Speaking of ignorance - anyone remember the story about the survey which was carried out a couple of years ago. People were asked who Churchill was - the overwhelming response that he was the dog from the insurance adverts!

    Another one - someone was asked Hitlers Christian name - they replied Heil!
  • Posts: 19,339
    This doesn't surprise me at all.....it's disgusting how history is treated in this country and others now.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    Well if you ask me it's education on the whole. Same with mathematics: children leanr to calculate on machines, but haven't got a clue if it is actually an answer that fits. So mistakes are missed. Personally I regret not learning it better, as it's often that I can't calculate quick enough or make a proper estimate. It costs me too much time (and money).

    Same with history. If you're aware of what happened before somewhere it's easier to connect to people, nad not make stupid mistakes. We're supposed to learn from eachother's experiences, also those of our deceised ancestors. Alas, though, apparently we prefer to look back to an era we hardly know anything about and long for that instead of learning from what went wrong and build a bright future.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    I grew up in the company of a lot of WW2 veterans. my dad was one but, like most, he never spoke about his experiences. What riles me up is that if we as a species don't learn from the mistakes and issues which led us to war, we are destined to repeat those same mistakes.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    I remember asking my niece if she knew about Dunkirk. She replied saying that it was the place where a madman went on the rampage and shot some schoolchildren. I corrected her by informing her that she was speaking about Dunblane. She had never heard of Dunkirk and she was at secondary school at the time.
  • Posts: 19,339
    stag wrote: »
    I remember asking my niece if she knew about Dunkirk. She replied saying that it was the place where a madman went on the rampage and shot some schoolchildren. I corrected her by informing her that she was speaking about Dunblane. She had never heard of Dunkirk and she was at secondary school at the time.

    Ow...that's worrying.
  • edited August 2017 Posts: 19,339
    This just in :

    German prosecutors: ex-Auschwitz guard, 96, fit for prison.

    German prosecutors say they consider a 96-year-old former Auschwitz death camp guard who was convicted as an accessory to murder fit to go to prison.

    Oskar Groening was convicted in July 2015 of being an accessory to the murder of 300,000 Jews and sentenced to four years in prison. In November, a federal court rejected his appeal.

    Groening has remained free pending the appeal and a decision on his fitness for prison.

    On Wednesday, Kathrin Soefker, a spokeswoman for prosecutors in Hannover, told news agency dpa they have rejected a defense application for a reprieve on serving the sentence.

    She said a doctor considers Groening fit to go to prison so long as there's appropriate medical care. There's been no formal summons yet for him to start serving his sentence.


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    If you do the crime then you do the time,you old shithead.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    Should have been locked up (or better still hung) many years ago.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Damn right.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    Absolutely. Still, the more judgement is served, the better.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,344
    Absolutely. Still, the more judgement is served, the better.

    Yes, and naturally enough time is running out for it to be delivered on those responsible for horrific war crimes and crimes against humanity. Sadly, many of the Nazis simply got away with it.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,920
    And some Japanese soldiers of WWII.
    And depraved perpetrators of horrific war crimes who fought alongside true heroes. On all sides.
    A lot to pay for.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    And some Japanese soldiers of WWII.
    And depraved perpetrators of horrific war crimes who fought alongside true heroes. On all sides.
    A lot to pay for.

    Worse still, the Japanese have never officially accepted or apologized for their use of women as 'comfort girls'. Women from all occupied territories, of all backgrounds, were used as sex slaves in the way ISIS is doing now too.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,344
    And some Japanese soldiers of WWII.
    And depraved perpetrators of horrific war crimes who fought alongside true heroes. On all sides.
    A lot to pay for.

    Worse still, the Japanese have never officially accepted or apologized for their use of women as 'comfort girls'. Women from all occupied territories, of all backgrounds, were used as sex slaves in the way ISIS is doing now too.

    The Japanese have never accepted their war guilt, period. The Japan of today is very different of course, a sort of mini America, not surprising given their influence.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
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  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,920
    It's also back to the misuse of power by governments and leaders. Individuals are responsible for their actions, sure, justice should prevail. But there's also the "Gale of the World" persons are swept up in beyond their control. I don't know how that Nazi jailer at the concentration camp came to be there to likely perpetrate horrific crimes, but he couldn't have imagined and implemented it himself.
    So beyond simple hatred of the involved Nazis and Japanese soldiers there should be some understanding of the events. And still, heavy punishments laid. Though the time is coming where none will remain anyway. If there should have been war guilt, the current population of Japan are even less likely to take that on.
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=eJJYVORSP_w
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    There are enough people committing heinous war crimes today that should be dealt with before going after someone who did bad 75 years ago.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited August 2017 Posts: 18,344
    There are enough people committing heinous war crimes today that should be dealt with before going after someone who did bad 75 years ago.

    The thing is there's no Statute of Limitations for murder, be it mass murder or plain old murder. So why should the writ of a court be time barred?

    It also sends out the message to those who have committed such crimes in more recent times (or are thinking of doing so) that you can run but you can't hide forever from the ever-turning wheels of justice.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Looks like they got another one :

    Ex-SS officer investigated for 1944 Nazi massacre .

    Public prosecutors in the German town of Celle have opened an investigation into a former SS man believed to have been involved in a 1944 massacre in France. The SS Panzerdivision of the Hitlerjugend killed 86 people.

    A 94-year-old man from Nordstemmen, Lower Saxony, is under investigation for murder, Bernd Kolkmeier, spokesman for the local prosecution authority, confirmed on Monday after a report in the Hildesheimer Allgemeine Zeitung newspaper.

    The prosecutors are examining whether the man will be charged with the shooting of women, men and children on the night of the April 2, 1944, in the village of Villeneuve d'Ascq near the city of Lille. On that date, the 12th SS Panzerdivision of the "Hitlerjugend" killed 86 men and women aged 15 to 75 years.

    The spokesman could not say what exactly the suspect had done during the action in Villeneuve d'Ascq. "I do not want to anticipate the investigation," he said.

    The general public prosecutor responsible, Jens Lehmann, was also involved in the trial of the so-called "Auschwitz accountant" Oskar Gröning in Lüneburg.

    Gröning was convicted of accessory to murder for his part in the so-called "Hungarian action," when hundreds of thousands of Jewish people from Hungary were murdered at Auschwitz.




    The conviction was confirmed by the Federal Court of Justice at the end of 2016. Other SS officers involved in the Holocaust have also been put on trial in recent years in an attempt to rectify decades of failure by the German judiciary to bring people directly involved in the Holocaust to justice.

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    @Thunderfinger they don't just try to get everyone who happened to be appointed to a job, but they try to get those who had an active, or should i say pro-active stance. Those who did far more then the situation asked of them, those who went out of their way to get these heinous crimes done.

    And that, I think, is a very good thing. They'll have to do the same with ISIS now.

    In my own home town they had a faschist mayor. He was prosecuted only for collaboration with the enemy, and sentenced to 5 years in prison. He wasn't actually actively persuing all the bad things the occupying forces (nazi's) expected him to do, he didn't go any further then what was asked of him.
  • Posts: 19,339
    This just in :

    Restored Prisoner's Letter Uncovers Horrific Details Of Life At Auschwitz Death Camp.

    In 1944, Marcel Nadjari -- a Greek Jew who was forced to remove bodies from the Auschwitz gas chambers -- buried a letter in a forest near the camp. The text was rediscovered in 1980, but it was virtually unreadable. Using a new imaging technique, scientists have finally reconstructed the letter, and it's providing harrowing new details of the Holocaust -- and what it was like to work as a forced labourer in a Nazi extermination camp.


    As reported in Deutsche Welle and Spiegel, a restoration effort headed by Russian-born historian Pavel Polian has brought the handwritten text of a document buried by Auschwitz-Birkenau prisoner Marcel Nadjari back to life.

    The letter, enclosed in a thermos and wrapped in a leather binding, was buried by Nadjari in November 1944 just outside the extermination camp, where it lay buried for 36 years. It was accidentally unearthed by a student in 1980, but most of the text was unlegible.
    Using a technique called multispectral analysis, Polian, with the help of Russian IT expert Aleksandr Nikitjaev, managed to decipher upwards of 90 per cent of the document. The details of this work are set to be published by the Munich-based Institute of Contemporary History (IfZ) in November.

    Nadjari, a Jew from Thessaloniki, Greece, had the misfortune of working as a member of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Sonderkommando.

    These forced labourers had to perform the unthinkable, removing the bodies from the gas chambers, extracting teeth, shaving off their hair (which was processed into yarn), delivering the bodies to the crematorium, and disposing the ashes into rivers.

    Members of the Sonderkommando were frequently killed and replaced with new arrivals; out of the estimated 2200 Jews assigned for this task, only a few hundred managed to survive the war.

    Nadjari's secret note represents one of nine similar records written by five Sonderkommando members, though his is the only one written in Greek (the others being in Yiddish). Only 10 to 15 per cent of the surviving document was originally legible. Nikitjaev was able to read the badly smudged text by taking multi-spectral recordings of the document at various optical wavelengths.

    This non-invasive technique allows researchers to map and identify the pigments (in this case ink) on badly worn documents and visualise the reflections that characterise a letter. Working for an entire year, Nikitjaev progressed through the document, turning the blurred script into outlines of letters that could be made visible again.

    Nadjari had written the letter in the hopes that whoever found it would deliver the document to a diplomatic representative of Greece, who would subsequently hand it over to either friends or family back home. Reading the recovered text, it's clear that Nikitjaev was distraught by the nature of his work, and even contemplated suicide. But it was his thoughts of vengeance that kept him going.

    "When you read what work I did, you will say, how could I... or anyone else do this work and burn his fellow believers... many times I thought of coming in with them [into the gas chambers] to finish, but I have always kept my revenge: I wanted to live to avenge the death of Papa and Mama, and that of my beloved little sister, Nelli," wrote Nadjari in the restored document.
    His accounts of life as a member of the Sonderkommando are particularly harrowing.

    "Our work was to receive them first, most of them did not know the reason... the people I saw when their destiny was sealed, I told the truth, and after they were all naked, they went further into the death chamber, where the Germans had laid pipes on the ceiling to make them think they were preparing the bath, with whips in their hands, the Germans forced them to move closer and closer together, so that as many as possible could fit in, a true Sardinian death, then the doors were hermetically sealed," wrote Nadjari. "After half an hour, we opened the doors [of the gas chamber], and our work began. We carried the corpses of these innocent women and children to the elevator, which brought them into the room with the ovens, and they put them in there the furnaces, where they were burnt without the use of fuel, because of the fat they have."

    He also participated in the spreading of the ashes, which the Nazis did to cover their tracks. Nadjari figured that his days were numbered and that he'd eventually be killed in the gas chambers. "We have to leave the earth because we know so much," he wrote.

    Nadjari managed to survive his experience at Auschwitz-Birkenau, where around 1.1 million people, the vast majority of them Jews, were killed during the Second World War. He returned to Greece after the war, and eventually moved to the United States. Nadjari died at the age of 54 in New York, before his document was rediscovered.


  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    These techniques are getting better and better thankfully.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Yep,its vital that science can help history like this ,Rossy.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
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