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No Time To Die - Safin's Plot (Spoilers!)

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  • ertertertert
    Posts: 490
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Nectoux wrote: »
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    Ok.....hear me out.

    Safin says something like 'You're going to die one day, but I'll live forever.'

    I think it means that...
    Safin is an old dude, who has been using some kind of science to either clone himself or stay young. He is Madeline's secret. Therefore, Safin is the man at the lake who confronts her when she's a child. But he is also the man terrorising her today...........

    Also, Rami Malek doing the 'Bond villain evil accent' is lit.

    Well, I beg to differ...

    I've felt like he was initially saying that the history of violence from Bond is similar to his past too, but that and all Bond's physical skills will eventually fade away with his body, while Safin's legacy sustained by his intelligence and knowledge will live forever. He's calling Bond, like M in CR, a blunt instrument - a tool that will be forgotten.

    I hope you're right @Nectoux as other theories here seem to step far too much into scifi territory.

    I agree that the "history of violence....reflection" part was in reference to his own sordid past. I have no idea what the second part means. The "die with your body" line does seem to hint at something though.

    I think they could pull off cloning though if done right. Skyfall & Spectre both had very modern plots about surveillance and technology but still managed to feel like old-fashioned films, at least to me. I have faith on Cary & Co to pull it off if that's the direction they go in.
  • Tuck91Tuck91
    Posts: 1,680
    I think safins plan is to design genetically altered mercenaries to do the work and acts of violence for him. There’s something about his calm demeanor and his history of past violence hinting he’s no longer that way.
  • ertertertert
    Posts: 490
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    I think safins plan is to design genetically altered mercenaries to do the work and acts of violence for him. There’s something about his calm demeanor and his history of past violence hinting he’s no longer that way.

    That would mean the cabin scene is indeed a flashback. hmm.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,123
    ertert wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Nectoux wrote: »
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    Ok.....hear me out.

    Safin says something like 'You're going to die one day, but I'll live forever.'

    I think it means that...
    Safin is an old dude, who has been using some kind of science to either clone himself or stay young. He is Madeline's secret. Therefore, Safin is the man at the lake who confronts her when she's a child. But he is also the man terrorising her today...........

    Also, Rami Malek doing the 'Bond villain evil accent' is lit.

    Well, I beg to differ...

    I've felt like he was initially saying that the history of violence from Bond is similar to his past too, but that and all Bond's physical skills will eventually fade away with his body, while Safin's legacy sustained by his intelligence and knowledge will live forever. He's calling Bond, like M in CR, a blunt instrument - a tool that will be forgotten.

    I hope you're right @Nectoux as other theories here seem to step far too much into scifi territory.

    I agree that the "history of violence....reflection" part was in reference to his own sordid past. I have no idea what the second part means. The "die with your body" line does seem to hint at something though.

    I think they could pull off cloning though if done right. Skyfall & Spectre both had very modern plots about surveillance and technology but still managed to feel like old-fashioned films, at least to me. I have faith on Cary & Co to pull it off if that's the direction they go in.

    I don't think they can pull cloning convincingly. It's too far off into scifi territory. There's a difference between a modern plot and a futuristic one.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216

    I can understand some being uncomfortable with the possible plot element involving cloning; while it may seem like science fiction, the fact is it is proven science and has been utilized to replicate plants and animals for some time now.
    Starting with Dr. No, the Bond films have featured science and technology which are a generation, or more, ahead of what is currently possible. It is highly probable that human cloning has already been done but is being kept in the shadows. I don’t see it as a stretch, even for Craig’s Bond.
    Handled poorly, cloning as a story element could come off as silly; handled week it could be intriguing, exciting and even frightening.
    The talents assembled for NTTD are too smart to let it be silly.
    Seek out “The Boys from Brazil“
  • LawrenceVulcan__1976LawrenceVulcan__1976 motherwell
    Posts: 40
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    I think safins plan is to design genetically altered mercenaries to do the work and acts of violence for him. There’s something about his calm demeanor and his history of past violence hinting he’s no longer that way.

    What like Iron Man 3?
  • Tuck91Tuck91
    Posts: 1,680
    LawrenceVulcan__1976 wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    I think safins plan is to design genetically altered mercenaries to do the work and acts of violence for him. There’s something about his calm demeanor and his history of past violence hinting he’s no longer that way.

    What like Iron Man 3?

    Never saw it.
    Part of safins lair looks like a meditation room with the table and tree. The way he is sitting with bond. The garb like robe he wears.

    He seems different compared to the lake scene
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,123
    talos7 wrote: »
    I can understand some being uncomfortable with the possible plot element involving cloning; while it may seem like science fiction, the fact is it is proven science and has been utilized to replicate plants and animals for some time now.
    Starting with Dr. No, the Bond films have featured science and technology which are a generation, or more, ahead of what is currently possible. It is highly probable that human cloning has already been done but is being kept in the shadows. I don’t see it as a stretch, even for Craig’s Bond.
    Handled poorly, cloning as a story element could come off as silly; handled week it could be intriguing, exciting and even frightening.
    The talents assembled for NTTD are too smart to let it be silly.
    Seek out “The Boys from Brazil“

    But The Boys from Brazil is scifi. Yes, sometimes in Bond movies there are far fetched elements especially when it comes to Doomsday machines. But when they have deus ex machina it never works and stretches credibility way too far. People complain about the Brothergate and that it sent Bond in Austin Power territory. Now they think Minime is OK? Cloning Blofeld, Safin, Madeleine (why?), eventually Bond I guess cheapen the characters.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Ludovico wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    I can understand some being uncomfortable with the possible plot element involving cloning; while it may seem like science fiction, the fact is it is proven science and has been utilized to replicate plants and animals for some time now.
    Starting with Dr. No, the Bond films have featured science and technology which are a generation, or more, ahead of what is currently possible. It is highly probable that human cloning has already been done but is being kept in the shadows. I don’t see it as a stretch, even for Craig’s Bond.
    Handled poorly, cloning as a story element could come off as silly; handled week it could be intriguing, exciting and even frightening.
    The talents assembled for NTTD are too smart to let it be silly.
    Seek out “The Boys from Brazil“

    But The Boys from Brazil is scifi. Yes, sometimes in Bond movies there are far fetched elements especially when it comes to Doomsday machines. But when they have deus ex machina it never works and stretches credibility way too far. People complain about the Brothergate and that it sent Bond in Austin Power territory. Now they think Minime is OK? Cloning Blofeld, Safin, Madeleine (why?), eventually Bond I guess cheapen the characters.

    At the time o BFB it was science fiction, now it is viable, proven science . As far as the rest, anything can be presented in a way that a parody .
  • battleshipgreygtbattleshipgreygt
    Posts: 1,220
    After watching the trailer I’m inclined to believe the rumour that the genetic warfare isn’t with regards to cloning, but
    Safin using genetics to breed a form of malicious algae that will destroy the worlds oceans and cause catastrophic ecological damage. You can see in this image that behind Nomi are some tanks containing some sort of marine plant life.
    W6rU4DHs_o.png
    This is in keeping with the theme of current/zeitgeisty villain schemes during the Craig era. A plot like that is the perfect blend of a high-stakes, world threatening danger, while being rooted in current, real world issues and threats.
    2006 - Post 9/11 terrorism
    2008 - Corrupt political influence/lobbying
    2012 - Cyberterrorism/Julian Assange
    2015 - Mass Surveillance/Edward Snowden
    2020 - Climate Change/Ecology/Biological Warfare
    I don’t think the young Madeleine piece has much to do with cloning but is moreso about establishing her personal connection to Safin. In a sense Safin is to Madeleine what Blofeld is to Bond.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    edited December 2019 Posts: 15,123
    talos7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    I can understand some being uncomfortable with the possible plot element involving cloning; while it may seem like science fiction, the fact is it is proven science and has been utilized to replicate plants and animals for some time now.
    Starting with Dr. No, the Bond films have featured science and technology which are a generation, or more, ahead of what is currently possible. It is highly probable that human cloning has already been done but is being kept in the shadows. I don’t see it as a stretch, even for Craig’s Bond.
    Handled poorly, cloning as a story element could come off as silly; handled week it could be intriguing, exciting and even frightening.
    The talents assembled for NTTD are too smart to let it be silly.
    Seek out “The Boys from Brazil“

    But The Boys from Brazil is scifi. Yes, sometimes in Bond movies there are far fetched elements especially when it comes to Doomsday machines. But when they have deus ex machina it never works and stretches credibility way too far. People complain about the Brothergate and that it sent Bond in Austin Power territory. Now they think Minime is OK? Cloning Blofeld, Safin, Madeleine (why?), eventually Bond I guess cheapen the characters.

    At the time o BFB it was science fiction, now it is viable, proven science . As far as the rest, anything can be presented in a way that a parody .

    No, it's still scifi. Otherwise they'd have cloned Hitler, Napoleon, Ramses II, Washington, Einstein or what have you already.

    Oh and Stepford Wives is still scifi as well and Rosemary's Baby still horror.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Ludovico wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    I can understand some being uncomfortable with the possible plot element involving cloning; while it may seem like science fiction, the fact is it is proven science and has been utilized to replicate plants and animals for some time now.
    Starting with Dr. No, the Bond films have featured science and technology which are a generation, or more, ahead of what is currently possible. It is highly probable that human cloning has already been done but is being kept in the shadows. I don’t see it as a stretch, even for Craig’s Bond.
    Handled poorly, cloning as a story element could come off as silly; handled week it could be intriguing, exciting and even frightening.
    The talents assembled for NTTD are too smart to let it be silly.
    Seek out “The Boys from Brazil“

    But The Boys from Brazil is scifi. Yes, sometimes in Bond movies there are far fetched elements especially when it comes to Doomsday machines. But when they have deus ex machina it never works and stretches credibility way too far. People complain about the Brothergate and that it sent Bond in Austin Power territory. Now they think Minime is OK? Cloning Blofeld, Safin, Madeleine (why?), eventually Bond I guess cheapen the characters.

    At the time o BFB it was science fiction, now it is viable, proven science . As far as the rest, anything can be presented in a way that a parody .

    No, it's still scifi. Otherwise they'd have cloned Hitler, Napoleon, Ramses II, Washington, Einstein or what have you already.
    Oh my, you need to do a little research into cloning, it’s present day applications and what is possible today but not done by ethical scientists.

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,123
    talos7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    I can understand some being uncomfortable with the possible plot element involving cloning; while it may seem like science fiction, the fact is it is proven science and has been utilized to replicate plants and animals for some time now.
    Starting with Dr. No, the Bond films have featured science and technology which are a generation, or more, ahead of what is currently possible. It is highly probable that human cloning has already been done but is being kept in the shadows. I don’t see it as a stretch, even for Craig’s Bond.
    Handled poorly, cloning as a story element could come off as silly; handled week it could be intriguing, exciting and even frightening.
    The talents assembled for NTTD are too smart to let it be silly.
    Seek out “The Boys from Brazil“

    But The Boys from Brazil is scifi. Yes, sometimes in Bond movies there are far fetched elements especially when it comes to Doomsday machines. But when they have deus ex machina it never works and stretches credibility way too far. People complain about the Brothergate and that it sent Bond in Austin Power territory. Now they think Minime is OK? Cloning Blofeld, Safin, Madeleine (why?), eventually Bond I guess cheapen the characters.

    At the time o BFB it was science fiction, now it is viable, proven science . As far as the rest, anything can be presented in a way that a parody .

    No, it's still scifi. Otherwise they'd have cloned Hitler, Napoleon, Ramses II, Washington, Einstein or what have you already.
    Oh my, you need to do a little research into cloning, it’s present day applications and what is possible today but not done by ethical scientists.

    I know it's being used. I know cloning is a reality. But not like in freaking Boys from Brazil. Hence my comment. (Beside if human cloning could work just as well in real life as in BFB, it is very debatable that the scheme set up in this story could even work, but that is another debate).
  • GatecrasherGatecrasher Classified
    Posts: 265
    Tbh, cloning isn’t that farfetched, if that’s indeed the plot of NTTD. I mean, Roger Moore’s Bond went to space and Pierce’s Bond delved a little into sci-fi territory with gene therapy. My point is cloning seems to be more “grounded” on the spectrum of sci-fi/thriller elements, so I’m keeping an open mind.
  • The_Bleeding_HeartThe_Bleeding_Heart Oakland, CA
    Posts: 34
    Rami's style is just....*swoon*

    Anyway, I can't help shake the feeling that he's a reimagined Dr. No. Honestly, I wouldn't mind it. Dr. No's one of the more - in my view, anyway, - one of the underrated Bond villains. So to modernize him would be kind of cool.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    This may have been proposed,
    When Blofeld says, “...it’ll be the death of him” could he be talking about Safin ? Possibly Swann holds the key to defeating him.
  • The_Bleeding_HeartThe_Bleeding_Heart Oakland, CA
    Posts: 34
    talos7 wrote: »
    This may have been proposed,
    When Blofeld says, “...it’ll be the death of him” could he be talking about Safin ? Possibly Swann holds the key to defeating him.

    Ohhh the plot thickens... I rewatched the trailer awhile ago, and it sounds like Blofeld's saying "him" (referencing Safin, perhaps) but his lips appear to be saying "you" - to Bond. I could definitely be wrong though.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited December 2019 Posts: 5,970
    Least this isn't like what we thought Mr. White said when he said "kite" haha :D
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Least this isn't like what we thought Mr. White said when he said "kit" haha :D
    😳😆

  • The_Bleeding_HeartThe_Bleeding_Heart Oakland, CA
    Posts: 34
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Least this isn't like what we thought Mr. White said when he said "kite" haha :D

    Ohhhhhh I remember that! A *kite* dancing in a hurricane...not the other thing, lol.
  • duke_togoduke_togo france
    Posts: 138
    Why Nomi was in Matera if she's a 00 since 2 years ? I'm starting to think that she could be a traitor...
  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    Posts: 4,409
    Here’s my hot take……
    • I think Safin is a ‘myth.’
    • An assassin who has cheated death and will live forever.
    • He’s the type of ‘ghost story’ that spies hear about but don’t believe.
    • Bond will spend the whole film believing that he is chasing either someone pretending to be the mythic Safin or believing that hte myth may be true.
    • I’m unsure what the actually truth will be……but all indications point towards Safin having in some say defied death and having found a way to live forever.
    • Essentially, he is Dr Frankenstein and the monster rolled into one.

    8mtob.jpg
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited December 2019 Posts: 3,333
    Yeah, I posted something similar about Safrin being a modern-day Victor Frankenstein on the trailers thread as well. Looks like we've both come to a similar conclusion that Safrin is using the algae to help 'purify' the water contaminated from nuclear waste but it's just an environmental cover story for his own nefarious, diabolical plan, which is the rejuvenation of dead human skin cells. In part, resurrecting the dying or the now deceased. It might explain the use of "Die" in the title and it's themes, plus why the scaring on Safrin's face doesn't look as severe as it does from the earlier scenes by the ice. It's the whole Gods and Monsters thing taken from Mary Shelley that I think Bond is referring to in that trailer clip.
  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    Posts: 4,409
    bondsum wrote: »
    Yeah, I posted something similar about Safrin being a modern-day Victor Frankenstein on the trailers thread as well. Looks like we've both come to a similar conclusion that Safrin is using the algae to help 'purify' the water contaminated from nuclear waste but it's just an environmental cover story for his own nefarious, diabolical plan, which is the rejuvenation of dead human skin cells. In part, resurrecting the dying or the now deceased. It might explain the use of "Die" in the title and it's themes, plus why the scaring on Safrin's face doesn't look as severe as it does from the earlier scenes by the ice. It's the whole Gods and Monsters thing taken from Mary Shelley that I think Bond is referring to in that trailer clip.

    I think we are on to something......sounds more like a villain from a Pierce Brosnan film. I also wouldn't have thought CJF would take this route.

    But..........it does seem to the angle they are going down. Safin is trying to cheat death - hence why he has 'no time to die.'
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited December 2019 Posts: 3,333
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    I think we are on to something......sounds more like a villain from a Pierce Brosnan film. I also wouldn't have thought CJF would take this route.

    But..........it does seem to the angle they are going down. Safin is trying to cheat death - hence why he has 'no time to die.'
    Absolutely @Pierce2Daniel. With regard to CJF not taking themes from older literary sources, let's not forget he did something similar with True Detective and the Yellow King, which was inspired from The King in Yellow by American author Robert W. Chambers published way back in 1895. But in this instance, I'm talking Mary Shelley's Frankenstein specifically as being his jumping off point. I don't necessarily see CJF taking his inspiration from the Pierce Brosnan era, but more from the older ones, blending the weird and far-out elements of Dr No, OHMSS, LALD and even DAF together. I also think Dr No acts as an inspiration for the later narrative of NTTD. I think Rami Malek let that slip when he was first interviewed on US TV, as he clearly had recently watched that movie for his own personal research on a character that would bare many of the same character traits as his own. I think the producers told him to go watch Dr No as an idea of what sort of villain he would be playing, which was part of Broccoli's pitch in luring him for the role.

    I also agree with your Safin is trying to cheat death line of thinking - hence why he has 'no time to die. My guess would be that his "resurrection cure" is still not fully developed yet and Safrin needs the missing part of the chemical formula to make it work, but he's right on the very cusp of it when Bond steps in to thwart his plans.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    talos7 wrote: »
    This may have been proposed,
    When Blofeld says, “...it’ll be the death of him” could he be talking about Safin ? Possibly Swann holds the key to defeating him.

    This was my first thought.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    When was Nomi in Matera? @duke_togo
  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    edited December 2019 Posts: 4,409
    Denbigh wrote: »
    When was Nomi in Matera? @duke_togo

    Lashana was filming on a rocky shore by the ocean. However, it wasn't for the Matera scenes, but actually the finale in Norway.

    Lea Seydoux was there as well - Cary was wearing A Clockwork Orange t-shirt.

    So............does the plot involve both genetic engineering AND climate change? It's clear that Malek is playing God, but he's also growing algae.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited December 2019 Posts: 5,970
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    When was Nomi in Matera? @duke_togo

    Lashana was filming on a rocky shore by the ocean. However, it wasn't for the Matera scenes, but actually the finale in Norway.

    Lea Seydoux was there as well - Cary was wearing A Clockwork Orange t-shirt.

    So............does the plot involve both genetic engineering AND climate change? It's clear that Malek is playing God, but he's also growing algae.
    Oh that! Yeah @duke_togo, that was for "Norway". Nomi is wearing her attack gear, and Madeleine has her longer hair. I love both their outfits in that sequence :)

    Anyone kinda think that Cary and Lea would make a cool couple after seeing them on set together haha :D
  • duke_togoduke_togo france
    Posts: 138
    Pierce2Daniel wrote: »
    Denbigh wrote: »
    When was Nomi in Matera? @duke_togo

    Lashana was filming on a rocky shore by the ocean. However, it wasn't for the Matera scenes, but actually the finale in Norway.

    Lea Seydoux was there as well - Cary was wearing A Clockwork Orange t-shirt.

    So............does the plot involve both genetic engineering AND climate change? It's clear that Malek is playing God, but he's also growing algae.

    Oh ok ! Didn't know that ! Thx for the clarification ! Is it certified that the finale takes place in Norway ? If that is the case does anyone know if ithe Norway road sequence is part of the climax ?



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