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I'm not with you. I was quoting Boris in response to Jobo's "How do we do it?"
Boris? He wouldn't know a woman if one came up and sat on his head
Ok. I wasn’t attempting humour either. Not a day for wind ups or joviality.
A bunch of wild American football fans is still a bad analogy for the average UK voter I would say. I don't see any comparison at all, "like" or otherwise.
In any event the people have let their voice be heard at the ballot box and they weren't backing either Jeremy Corbyn or Jo Swinson (who actually lost her seat). So the second People's Vote, renegotiation and revocation were all utterly rejected at the ballot box.
Just watching a couple of interviews with voters makes it abundantly clear how confused many of them are. Their reasoning is often either completely non existent or as nonsensical as the plotline of a Mankiewicz Bond film.
Yes people were tricked. They were misled. But they don't care. Cameron overestimating the intelligence of the public got us into this mess and now Labour have lost their chance of getting us out of it by doing the same thing again with their second referendum promise. Makes perfect sense on paper. Bring together the divided country with a credible EU trade deal vs remain. But people don't care about sense. They want to "make Britain great again". Laughable.
Brexit is the single worst thing to have ever happened to the British working class. Former mining towns have gone Tory. Interviews come out where Boris absoloutely slates the working class, sings the praises of inequality, and yet Labour strongholds have gone Tory. That's how badly people just want to leave and how little they care about the consequences.
David Cameron deserves stringing up for what he's done to this country. As do anyone who's sold their soul working for Murdoch's propaganda empire. The BBC too. Ridiculously biased throughout this whole election. And now we're going to get five more years of bluster from that horrible fat racist sexist classist psychopath and five more years of billionaires getting richer while more and more children literally starve. Don't forget the nice little trade deal with America too. Ridiculously expensive drug prices (because people were too thick to realise what "selling the NHS" meant and thought it wasn't happening, they're literally stripping it for parts, Boris is on record slagging off the NHS and singing the praises of privatisation in interviews, not that the biased media bothered reporting that) here we come. Oh but at least we'll be helping contribute to the end of the world, because part of the leaked talks with America were carbon emissions off the table, because they're so thick they genuinely don't believe in climate change.
But we're just as bad. We've got a Trump of our own leading us fairly unopposed back into the dark days of Thatcherism. And we voted for it because of blind nationalism and xenophobia. I'm so ashamed to be British today.
An Anglo Saxon white persons birth defect surely.
How am I deranged for not supporting him? He's a scarily racist narssistic psychopath. All he does is lie (50,000 new nurses, 40 new hospitals, no Irish border checks, hahaha) and cower away from any challenge or scrutiny (shutting down parliament, not doing the Neil interview, not doing the climate debate, running away from Piers Morgan, not surprising from a man who bottled raising his own kids). He politicised the death of the lad on London Bridge, against the wishes of the victim's family, even though he voted against Labour's post 9/11 7/7 anti-terrorism laws. He called the working class drunk criminal morons and said inequality was essential. Us blacks got the watermelon smiles and piccaninnies comments. Letterbox comparisons for muslims. He might be the most blatantly prejudiced leader we've ever had. John Major campaigned against him while Nigel Farage, Katie Hopkins and Tommy Robinson backed him. Hopkins is celebrating on twitter now about putting British people (i.e. white, British ancestry, we're all immigrants to them whether we were born here or not) first. Johnson talked the other day about immigrants treating the UK "as if it's their own country" (ironic given that the same thick racist EDL types who love that speil are the same sorts who holiday in the embarassing little England communities we've got over in Benidorm etc). For minorities like me (son of a Jamaican and Nigerian immigrant) this is genuinely terrifying.
He's the most openly prejudiced leader we've ever had, a spineless narcissistic psychopath, and after we leave the EU with a terrible deal or no deal, we're relying on him to stick up for us with America? Good luck. He's going to bend over and spread his cheeks for his idol Trump. The NHS isn't safe with him. Dominic Cummings the current man behind the throne has told us the Tories hate the NHS. Former Tory PM John Major told us not to trust Boris with the NHS. Boris himself has told us over the years that the NHS is a religion (i.e. people glorify it when it should be criticised) that's been letting people down and that we should look to the private healthcare models of other countries (like his idols America). Drs and Nurses begged us to vote Labour. But instead we trusted that fat waste of life, a man who's criticised the NHS, advocated privatisation and is famous for lying, with his promise that it was safe. Good luck to us. Hopefully climate change will kill us before the rising NHS costs do though because Trump was very clear: NHS on the table, carbon emissions off it. Christ.
This is pretty much the end of the UK as we know it too. Scotland will get sick of us dragging them down and gain independance eventually, and Johnson's deal would be terrible for peace in Ireland (ironic after all the crap Corbyn got for being an IRA "sympathiser").
But you enjoy your miserable Tory nationalist little Britain, accusing anyone who criticises it of being deranged, while Tory austerity policies continue to kill the poorest in society (oh wait they're ending it aren't they, never heard that before!) and those of us who had the nerve to be born black or brown live in fear.
Public not following their political advice ! ;-)
Oh, we believe in climate change. We just have oil and gas interests lobbying Trump...and succeeding.
Bojo put his spell on you mate! I think you should have used the term "narcissistic psychopath" a few more times.
You'd be surprised how many people actually care about the effect of politics on their daily lives. As far as I can fathom @thelivingroyale is making some fair points.
In hindsight, he probably should have stood down after last time. But he didn't get a spanking for doing his job badly. I still think the main reason is how ridiculously biased the media is and how entrenched the old boy establishment is within the UK. He's a genuinely decent honest and principled socialisr but they painted him as an anti-semetic communist. Others might say it's his policies, maybe people genuinely just don't want that sort of government. Maybe people just wouldn't like him even without the ridiculously biased media campaign against him (but we'll never know, because the establishment media came for him harder than anyone before, hard to judge how popular he'd have otherwise been). And Labour underestimating how badly people wanted Brexit, that definitely played a role.
But whatever the reasons, I think it's very unfair to say he's bad at his job. He worked tirelessly travelling around the country and actually engaging with people. Faced all the debates and interviews with composure and dignity. Boris can't say the same. He ran and hid all election. For example, look at the Andrew Neil interview. It was rough. Corbyn didn't look good. But he did it. He was the first one to do it, and all the other leaders eventually did. Except Boris. Now that's a man who's bad at his job. So bad at his job, so little of substance to actually say (he could have been replaced by a robot, all he ever went on about was "getting brexit done", and sadly that was somehow enough for people), the Tories had to hide him from public view for pretty much the whole campaign.
Corbyn also got a generation of young people engaged with politics. Loads more registered to vote thanks to Corbyn. My nephew isn't old enough to vote yet but he was asking me about politics a lot the last time I saw him, because Corbyn has been great at getting the youth on side.
He lost, and he might not have been the right candidate. Might not even be leader material to be fair (I've long since said that we don't deserve someone like him as a leader, he's too good for us, we'd never elect him). But bad at his job? I think that's unfair. He's untouchable in his seat as an MP, he's defied the Labour whip hundreds of times because he's usually on the right side of history. He's not just some terrible career politician being parachuted in somewhere and making a mess of it.
I'm still in mourning personally. He's the only politician I've ever really 100% rooted for and the only party leader I've ever really felt was a genuinely honest and good man. I'll miss him.
Because that's what he is. If the shoe fits and all that. If you voted for him then I hope you're well off enough to benefit.
But you're right that he gets under my skin even more than the usual Tory. Never thought I'd hate a politician as much as Thatcher but I think I do. Thatcher, at least, from my vague distant memories, seemed to me to believe in what she was doing, she was commited to her own perverse version of helping the country. I really don't even understand why Boris wants the job apart from having the job, getting that respect from all his old school mates. The only thing he seems passionate about and commited to is Brexit, but there was a time when he wanted to remain, I think he's just used that to keep him in power (and of course probably stands to make a few quid as a rich person in a ruined economy). He doesn't care about us "drunk" "feckless" "hopeless" "chavs" and "criminals", like the rest of the Tories don't, but he also doesn't even seem to care about serving the country as a whole. He's the worst politician of my lifetime and I'm terrified.
A part of me wants to be smug when it all goes wrong so I can say I told you so to those that voted for this nightmare.
Although it is a case of we are all in the same bed and a good majority of the bed decided to shit in it and now despite some us not doing the defalcating we've all go to live in it.
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/general-election-results-labour-heartlands-working-class-tory-voters-a9245561.html
Also this below, sounds like some episode of Black Mirror but no these people have been elected to represent their constituencies.
If you voted Tory I hope you are exceptionally proud of yourselves.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-controversial-new-conservative-mps-johnson-islamophobia-a9246476.html
Luckily, people are also quick to adjust. The consequences of Brexit will be felt soon enough. Some will be good, some will be bad. If the bad gets bad enough, a newly organised EU might result from that. I'm definitely not opposed to that. The EU itself needs liposuction, a facelift and a visit to a health spa. Perhaps Brexit is the catalyst we needed for that to happen.
All I'm saying is, whatever hopes people may have that they'll return to the 'Great' Britain of a century ago, they better understand that those days are long gone. The geopolitical and economical focal points are swimming ever farther away from us. The 'West' mustn't automatically assume that it'll forever be able to retain its stronghold on the rest of the world. In that sense, I'm worried. Will a splintered-off Britain become the appendix of the USA--one major force against Russia with the EU squeezed in between like a hotdog between two halves of a sandwich? Or has Britain rendered itself even more isolated than before, at the mercy of a fickle American president who says one thing now and another thing tomorrow?
Boris has his majority now. He'll be able to deliver whatever Brexit he sees fit. I think it's going to be catostrophic, but I'm at a point now where I think it has to happen for people to realise how bad it'll be. And then hopefully, after five more years of the Tories, with nobody/nothing else to blame for their poverty, the same heartlands that turned Tory will turn back.
Labour just need to be ready to capitalise. The leader is everything right now. I love Corbyn to bits and he's been great at showing that a harder left is possible (I think they announced far too many policies, but in general, that sort of direction wasn't the problem imo, it was Brexit and the media smears about him loving terrorists etc). He's also got a whole generation voting Labour (look at the demographic maps, 18-24 is pretty much all Labour). But it's time to hand that over to a leader with less baggage. Someone who the biased media won't be able to smear so easily. Corbyn was too outspoken and principled for his own good. The next leader can't have skeletons like peacefully negotiating with extremists, supporting Palestine, stuff that is actually completely innocent and even arguably just but that was weaponised against Corbyn to a really damaging extent.
I don't think they have to be too much more centrist though. We don't need another Blair. A harder left was a necessary change in direction imo. Run a more focused campaign instead of promising to nationalise something new every week, but lets not have another red Tory please. Look at the Lib Dems. They were wiped out even worse than Labour. Johnson's victory shows that the political climate is too extreme for centrism now. A hard(er) left is necessary to counter the harder right. Maybe Corbyn was too extreme, but we definitely don't want to slip back to the days of New Labour. There's a middle ground there.
Something I read on twitter that sums this up nicely: people want to get Brexit done so the UK can assume its rightful place in the world, but they're going to be disappointed once they realise what that place actually is.
We're irrelevant and are going to be completely at America's mercy. If you didn't laugh you'd cry.
Now we need a "no deal" brexit so we can truly take back the reins from the Elites in Brussels.
Yes, but what does that mean? I understand the resentment towards Brussels; I'm feeling it myself. But "taking the reins back" will result in what precisely?
Sovereignty for Great Britain.
I agree that offering the second referendum was a terrible idea, and I get the sovereignty argument for leaving, but I just don't see why anyone would actually want no deal. All the predictions seem to think it'd be terrible for our economy, and wouldn't we end up needing to negotiate the same trade deals with European countries anyway, except from a much weaker position? Doesn't help that Boris' solution to that seems to be to sell us out to America. Sorry but I don't trust that the NHS would be safe in those talks (doesn't help that austerity has already damaged it and that Tories, past and present, have told us not to trust Boris with it, and then there's Boris' own comments). The Americans were very clear about full market access being the "baseline" of those talks, and Trump's later defence of that was "no I don't want the NHS, I don't know where that came from" (him. It came from him. He said NHS would absolutely be on the table in trade). Then there's Farage, the northern regional town's man of the people, another advocate of insurance based healthcare.
Boris shows his true colours. Hard not to believe he wants to strip the NHS for parts when he sees it as such a failure in comparison to private health care. He's certainly not going to invest in it. The hospitals and nurses figures he campaigned with were immediately debunked as lies and they've said they're ending austerity how many times now?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-raab-brexit-nhs-privatisation-trump-us-drugs-price-increase-a9230661.html
Raab admits that the US could raise our drug prices.
There's definitely an issue with the current Labour party (I'm from Hackney, but where I live now "metropolitan elite" is definitely how a lot of people see them, there's been a big shift really, the old industrial towns that used to back them now see them as the bourgeoisie) and that's why they've lost so much support. But the Tories don't have the interests of the poor and disadvantaged at heart. They might both want Brexit, but it's not for the same reasons. I think over the next few years people will realise that. Labour just need a leader who's more relate-able to the people in the seats they've lost so they can capitalise. Because nobody actually likes Boris do they, nobody trusts him. They voted for him because he promised to deliver Brexit and because they hated Corbyn more. But past that, he's ridiculously elitist and classist even for a Tory. He's outright called the working class drunk criminal morons for a start.
I refuse to believe that Labour have lost the working class for good and that people won't eventually wise up to how terrible Boris is for anyone but the rich once Brexit is over. If Labour regroup effectively then I think he'll be easy to beat. That's why, as terrified as I am for the next few years, I'm not completely hopeless. A northern leader might be an idea. People will say that can't matter too much if the north voted for Boris Johnson, but I think it could be easy shorthand for "we listened, we want you back".
And they need to be more ruthless. Get a leader more willing to lower themselves to personal attacks (Boris left several open goals that Corbyn was too principled to capitalise on) and have a shadow alternative to Cummings' disinformation campaign. 88% of Tory ads were found to be misleading compared to 0% of Labour's. Then there were those sock puppet social media accounts (remember the photo of the little boy forced to wait on the floor that Boris stole a journalist's phone to avoid looking at? I had friends tell me it was faked, I looked into it, it wasn't, the hospital confirmed it, but the Tories used fake accounts to try and debunk it as fake https://vip.politicsmeanspolitics.com/2019/12/10/fact-checking-the-fake-claims-over-the-leeds-hospital-story/).
You can argue those tactics, the lies and disinformation, were morally wrong. But they clearly bloody worked. The Tories won. Lying won. Taking the high road didn't work. Murdoch's empire will always be against them unless they get another Blair type, and even the BBC have shown themselves to be ridiculously biased in this election (editing footage of Boris so he looks better, Jewish Chronicle on their newspaper review one week but not the Mirror the week they report Boris' working class comments, etc). The odds are always going to be stacked against Labour. Time to fight dirty.
Do you live in one of those industrial towns that have gone Tory @Mendes4Lyfe? I'd be interested to hear whether you thought the policies were the problem or just Brexit and Corbyn himself. Because where I am, some of them seemed very popular, and I really believe in a lot of those socialist policies, I think they're just what we need. The Green New Deal idea in particular seemed like a masterstroke to me (help save the planet while creating new jobs in former industrial areas the Tories left behind). I think it'd be a shame to ditch them all for a more centrist position. It got a bit silly eventually, they seemed to be promising too much and throwing everything at the wall and seeing what stuck (once he started going on about football etc a lot of people I know just stopped believing him, should have run a more focused campaign), but I feel that there has to be a middle ground between Corbyn and Blair.
So naturally, if the Scottish desire independence and sovereignity, they can have it, no?
I feel that's now just a matter of time, and I honestly don't blame them. And then there's Ireland. It's ironic given all the crap Corbyn got for being an IRA sympathiser how bad Boris' deal would be for the peace process over there. I feel that a united Ireland is more unlikely than the Scots breaking free because of the hard-line unionists, but things could get pretty grim again. Guess we'll just have to wait and see how that develops.