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Most characters are. And saying those attitudes don't exist anymore would be hard argument to make - just look at the news on any given day!
Quite right.
Of course not, by all means. But you are fundamentally changing the character, that was my point. Whereas yours was that his whiteness isn't an important part of his character; it absolutely is. Whether the change is good or bad or not will ultimately be decided by audiences when it inevitably happens.
What do you mean, 'apart from'? Is his skin colour not what we are talking about?
The only thing I’m absolutely sure is that as long as Barbara is in charge she will never pick up an actor because of political correctness. If she will choose a black man for the part is because he would be the best actor for the iteration of the character they have in mind. Then, it’s up to the audience.
For example, would Craig’s era have been any different if he was black?
I explained how the two are intrinsically linked above. You say "apart from that aspect" as if it's a small one. It's fairly sizeable.
Superficially, no. They wouldn't be all that different. You'd still have a martini, an Aston Martin, a spy in a suit going after the bad guys. Subtextually, as a James Bond film featuring a character that came from the mind of a bigot, it would be. For the reasons outlined above.
They wouldn't be worse films, but they would be different. To pretend otherwise is insincere, imo.
I don't doubt Babs casting abilities in the slightest. She's proved herself more than capable in that department by casting Craig. It most certainly is up to the audience, but most audiences aren't really all that bothered about Bond beyond the tropes. Once they satisfy those, Bond will keep going regardless of how far removed the character goes from its original description.
That’s a slightly pointless question. We genuinely have zero idea how the audiences would’ve reacted to a black 007 15 years ago. Just look at the reactions for a black woman taking the double 007 codename for just a self contained picture (in 2020).
Then he stops being the person that Ian Fleming wrote about, and I agree that for most of the cinema-going audience, that wouldn't matter at all. But there are some who have an interest in the books and like to think the person on-screen is still portraying the same person who had the bloodline and heritage Fleming wrote about.
You see, it doesn't matter if you have a black, white, yellow or green dentist, bus driver, or postman as long as they can do their job. But when the film has ;Ian Fleming's James Bond' at the start, it does matter that he's able to portray that character with conviction.
Everyone's got a stick up their ass about race it's become impossible to talk about it with common sense. You can say Cillian Murphy wouldn't make a good Bond because he's a short-arse, yet you can't say Idris Elba can't be Bond because he's black.
Always a pleasure, sir.
:)>-
This is true. I guess, for perspective, it is also worth noting that Fleming didn't like the Irish either and we had an Irish James Bond from 95-02!
And you’ve still not really given me what fundamental changes? Because to me, his bloodline and heritage isn’t important. It’s never even been addressed before until Skyfall (in the films) so how does changing that or even just not addressing it, fundamentally change the whole character? Most audiences don’t even know his bloodline or heritage.
Also, no-ones saying you can’t think that, just don’t be annoyed or surprised when someone challenges you about it.
And @matt_u, I see what you’re saying but my point is about the character of Bond, not how successful it would’ve been. I know that will be a factor, but in the terms of who James Bond was in those films and the stories he was involved in, he could’ve been black.
I completely agree, and I've said as much, that the majority of people don't care if the cinematic James Bond is true to his Fleming roots or not. What's important to some, isn't important to others. If it doesn't matter to you that the films follow Fleming's back-story, you'll be a lot better of if or when they do change race.
It's like I said on here recently, Bond is in the Fleming books for me, and the continuation novels and films are fun off-shoots of that character. It's just more fun for me, when they get the details right.
I only get annoyed when it's done in a snide way, as it was on this thread. Not by you of course, you've always been a gent.
Well from this perspective - besides its origins/heritage/family stuff - yes with him being black it would’ve been the same. Perhaps Felix would’ve been white in CR! :D
You would definitely be looking at a reboot if it happened and a feeling that someone might look at it as an opportunity to re-define the character and his skin colour would be a thing.
Now if they can make a film with a black actor an he is Bond and he gets on with being Bond without drawing attention to his skin colour.
You can do different interpretations of the side characters and regulars, change their sex and skin colour but if you do it with Bond it is not the same.
Like I say I'm not dismissing it outright but I have reservations and tackling issues like racial ones in a fantasy character like Bond would be something that would definitely have me cautious.
Craig has taken the character into different areas, tackling the psychological implications of being a man that is in his world and not just a superman with little depth but then adding that extra dimension of changing his skin colour could be just too much of good thing for the script writer not to want to take advantage of.
Also if Bond became black surely those audiences that were excited about it, would they really not want that element tackled?
I don't know it is very choppy waters this direction and it isn't the actor playing him I see the issue it is the person that provides the script that makes me nervous.
Not that I am swaying one way or the other, but it's worth pointing out that Brosnan didn't play Bond as an Irishman. Hence why the objections to Bond being played by an American always strike me as absurd. As long as he plays him as British, what difference does it make if they actor is American?
I completely understand and agree; I was just being devil's advocate against my own points that I laid out above, just for some perspective.
I think with the American thing, it just comes down to talent and the ability to do a convincing English accent. Most British accents seem to be able to do the reverse, but while it's not uncommon (obviously!) for Americans to do the reverse, it is certainly rarer.
Also it’s really easy to alter his heritage in the details if they felt they needed to, just make his French mother a black woman, surely?
And more on topic, so excited for No Time to Die haha :D
Something that is helped immeasurably by the fact that they are supporting characters with minimal backstory, so there's actually not that much to change. But I take your point.
It's fiction, so they'll make whatever changes they need to make a particular iteration work.
I think if we know anything about EON, it’s that they’re very actor-led. They never seem to put an actor in a film, they make a film for the actor - when it comes to James Bond - so more reason why I think we could get anything with the next guy. The only thing we can guarantee is that he’ll be a man.
Rog came close. 😁
Now I want Rog in a mohawk in an alternate world AVTAK.
And you’re right, he’ll always be doing those things (cars, clothes, etc.) and in my opinion, his race won’t change any of that, and it wouldn’t have to change too much about him as a character. As long as he’s handsome, tall, British and a good actor, everything is down to them and EON to explore the character to their fullest potential, while recognising Fleming’s original creation and the world we live in, at the same time.
Of course Bond changes with the time. Just as one small example, he's not going around smacking girls asses and saying "Man talk".
This. =D>
It would make sense considering the origins of the James Bond theme :))
+1 One of the best post about black bond @Shardlake well said . It's the writing that will makes the difference.