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NTTD & Corona

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  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,541
    People need time to adjust to the idea that we might have to live like this for a few years. They need to feel safe before they can visit theatres. Tenet wasn't a really a great film, although i am not aware if they promote or market it well enough to get the word out? This wasn't the film people were expecting so much to visit theatres for.

    Another thing to consider, can theatres chain's suffer loss for a few months, hoping people might come up to see film's when they feel safe, you know suffer loss for a few months to gain benefit after that? I don't have much idea on that.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,380
    Eon isn't stupid. They know they have a good product (even SP did well, despite the reviews) and they will wait to release Craig's final film when the moment is right.

    Clearly, anything indoors (aside from staying at home) is more risky than being outside, for now. Anyone who doesn't see that is denying reality. Wear a mask and stay away from other people.

    WB/Tenet did Eon a huge favor by showing them that it is too soon for NTTD.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2020 Posts: 15,723
    The Fast & Furious guys, in hindsight, might end up being the smartest people in Hollywood. They immediately delayed Fast 9 by 1 whole year. Which makes it possible they could be the only major 2020* blockbuster (from those affected by the pandemic) to be delayed only once.

    * As in originally due for release this year, pre-Covid.
  • petergreenhill5petergreenhill5
    edited September 2020 Posts: 824
    Whoever greenlighted the current marketing campaign imo made a huge mistake. Releasing NTTD into the Winter period, when respiratory illnesses thrive, with no vaccine available until mid 2021 at the earliest and case numbers rising in Europe, as schools and colleges go back, is asking for trouble. A delay until November 2021 would reduce the risk and improve the box office outlook. I'm glad it's not my money on the line.
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,582
    echo wrote: »
    Eon isn't stupid. They know they have a good product (even SP did well, despite the reviews) and they will wait to release Craig's final film when the moment is right.

    Clearly, anything indoors (aside from staying at home) is more risky than being outside, for now. Anyone who doesn't see that is denying reality. Wear a mask and stay away from other people.

    WB/Tenet did Eon a huge favor by showing them that it is too soon for NTTD.

    EON has little or no say when a movie is released,they just produce the film.

    The distributors and banks decide when movies are released.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited September 2020 Posts: 4,078
    An estimated 50,000 people died from the flu epidemic in the UK in the winter months between 2017-2018. 23,000 of those apparently in a 3 month period.

    I don't believe it affected cinemas or anything else, but if the media had done a 'rolling death count' who knows...
  • RogerJonMoorePertweeRogerJonMoorePertwee UK
    Posts: 348
    The best compromise solution right now seems to be letting the US go - be it delaying a film there specifically, or going PVOD (again, only there), or just accepting the tiny box office if it opens theatrically at that time.
    This is part of Antovolk's post regarding this issue and I agree with it.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2020 Posts: 15,723
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    The best compromise solution right now seems to be letting the US go - be it delaying a film there specifically, or going PVOD (again, only there), or just accepting the tiny box office if it opens theatrically at that time.
    This is part of Antovolk's post regarding this issue and I agree with it.

    And again you refuse to understand this may not be a solution for big budget films. There is a reason why PVOD numbers for Mulan have yet to be made public - the reason being those numbers are likely to not be encouraging at all for blockbusters.

    So I ask: what solution do you offer for US blockbusters that are domestic heavy at the box office? You can't release them in theaters, you can't release them on PVOD, thus further delays becomes the only available option for studios. Unless you have a better idea.

    ----

    Variety just posted an article that the US box office situation is looking extremely grim for the rest of 2020.

    https://variety.com/2020/film/news/tenet-movie-theaters-coronavirus-no-time-to-die-1234771424/
  • RogerJonMoorePertweeRogerJonMoorePertwee UK
    Posts: 348
    The thing is, the completed films which have been delayed to Spring or Summer 2021, you can say "Oh well, fair enough. What can you do" and leave it at that.
    If / when those films are pushed back to Autumn or Winter 2021 or possibly into 2022, doesn't the general reaction from audiences at that point become more justifiably annoyed or angry? At what point does it feel like potential audiences are being taken for fools / insulted for actively looking forward to seeing any of these films?
  • Escalus5Escalus5
    Posts: 628
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    The NY Times has just posted an article that states the following:

    “The industry needs New York to open as soon as possible,” said Ken Thewes, Regal Cinemas’ chief marketing officer. “Governor Cuomo has done a great job getting it under control, but we really need him to give cinemas the same thought that he’s given to the restaurant industry and let us resume operations.”

    If those markets don’t open, and the studios get skittish, theater operators may have to take some dramatic steps to weather the storm. Shawn Robbins, chief analyst at Box Office Pro, said cinemas may start reducing operating hours to minimize expenses — perhaps going down to 7 p.m. and 9 p.m. screenings only, and foregoing matinees and early-evening screenings. In some cases, theaters have leases that require them to operate seven days a week. For those that don’t, showing movies only on weekends may be an option.'

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/business/media/tenet-movie-theaters-coronavirus.html

    I'm predicting Cuomo will announce within the next week the reopening of movie theaters in New York State. As I noted in another post, theaters have been open in neighboring New Jersey and Connecticut for weeks, and as Cuomo has already given the greenlight for indoor dining, casinos and gyms, theaters are next.

    I'm also predicting that NTTD will keep its November release date.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2020 Posts: 15,723
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    The thing is, the completed films which have been delayed to Spring or Summer 2021, you can say "Oh well, fair enough. What can you do" and leave it at that.
    If / when those films are pushed back to Autumn or Winter 2021 or possibly into 2022, doesn't the general reaction from audiences at that point become more justifiably annoyed or angry? At what point does it feel like potential audiences are being taken for fools / insulted for actively looking forward to seeing any of these films?

    How about you actually pay attention to the current situation. Or are you being oblivious on purpose?

    Why do you think films are being delayed again this past week?

    Answer: The domestic box office numbers for Tenet are a disaster because almost no-one is showing up at the cinema.

    The total box office gross of all films combined last weekend is so bad that US cinemas are operating at a loss.

    Now can you please explain what your following statement means:
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    "At what point does it feel like potential audiences are being taken for fools / insulted for actively looking forward to seeing any of these films?".

    They already aren't showing up! So why would they feel insulted?
  • 007InAction007InAction Australia
    Posts: 2,582
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    An estimated 50,000 people died from the flu epidemic in the UK in the winter months between 2017-2018. 23,000 of those apparently in a 3 month period.

    I don't believe it affected cinemas or anything else, but if the media had done a 'rolling death count' who knows...

    You wo
    Escalus5 wrote: »
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    The NY Times has just posted an article that states the following:

    “The industry needs New York to open as soon as possible,” said Ken Thewes, Regal Cinemas’ chief marketing officer. “Governor Cuomo has done a great job getting it under control, but we really need him to give cinemas the same thought that he’s given to the restaurant industry and let us resume operations.”

    If those markets don’t open, and the studios get skittish, theater operators may have to take some dramatic steps to weather the storm. Shawn Robbins, chief analyst at Box Office Pro, said cinemas may start reducing operating hours to minimize expenses — perhaps going down to 7 p.m. and 9 p.m. screenings only, and foregoing matinees and early-evening screenings. In some cases, theaters have leases that require them to operate seven days a week. For those that don’t, showing movies only on weekends may be an option.'

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/15/business/media/tenet-movie-theaters-coronavirus.html

    I'm predicting Cuomo will announce within the next week the reopening of movie theaters in New York State. As I noted in another post, theaters have been open in neighboring New Jersey and Connecticut for weeks, and as Cuomo has already given the greenlight for indoor dining, casinos and gyms, theaters are next.

    I'm also predicting that NTTD will keep its November release date.

    I agree. November or bust :)>-
  • RogerJonMoorePertweeRogerJonMoorePertwee UK
    Posts: 348
    They already aren't showing up! So why would they feel insulted?
    My statement also applies to people (like myself) who have actually been going back to the cinema.
    Why do you think films are being delayed again this past week?

    Answer: The domestic box office numbers for Tenet are a disaster because almost no-one is showing up at the cinema.

    The total box office gross of all films combined last weekend is so bad that US cinemas are operating at a loss.
    I realize why this is the case, I'm not an idiot. On the other hand, these films can only be delayed so long for a multitude of reasons.

  • familymottofamilymotto Spain
    Posts: 24
    Wow people need to chill lol!

    Ok we get it, Tenet was a DISASTER!!!!! Give it a rest.

    It will be out when it is out.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    They already aren't showing up! So why would they feel insulted?
    My statement also applies to people (like myself) who have actually been going back to the cinema.

    And they aren't enough people who actually have returned to the cinema. Your movie going activity is irrelevant in this situation as the box office gross is already too low. If you want to 'feel insulted', then blame those that won't return to the cinemas. Don't blame studios who are unwilling to release films to insufficient audience members.
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    I realize why this is the case, I'm not an idiot. On the other hand, these films can only be delayed so long for a multitude of reasons.

    You just proved you still won't admit there is no other solution than to delay again and again until audience attendance are big enough. Tenet failed. It showed the US box office numbers are hopeless. You can't release blockbusters, and even if you do, no-one is showing up for them. So you may not like it, but delays are inevitable.
  • RogerJonMoorePertweeRogerJonMoorePertwee UK
    Posts: 348
    I just find it equally depressing / ridiculous that despite this being a James Bond forum, and that new posters and a new trailer for a brand new Bond film have come out - for a film that itself is coming out less than 2 months from now (in the UK) - that some people are still expecting / wanting the film to be delayed again. Call me naivelly optimistic if you want, but considering that the marketing (at least online) seems to have gone back into full swing again, it would seem that EON are determined to release NTTD in November no matter what, wouldn't it? Otherwise, if they were considering moving it again, why bother marketing the film at this point and spending even more money to promote it?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2020 Posts: 15,723
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    I just find it equally depressing / ridiculous that despite this being a James Bond forum, and that new posters and a new trailer for a brand new Bond film have come out - for a film that itself is coming out less than 2 months from now (in the UK) - that some people are still expecting / wanting the film to be delayed again.

    I do not know what to say to such an insane post.

    1. To expect the film to be delayed isn't ridiculous, considering there is an ongoing global pandemic. It means being cautiously optimistic.
    2. To state that anyone on these forums actually want NTTD to be delayed is, quite frankly, insulting and is the only truly ridiculous thing I've read in this thread. So it is very rich coming from you to look down on others like you are the only true Bond fan on this website.

    It is quite frankly becoming very tedious to answer someone that refuses to understand anything, and who makes the exact ridiculous statements he wrongfully accuses others of doing.
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    Otherwise, if they were considering moving it again, why bother marketing the film at this point and spending even more money to promote it?

    Do you know who (or more specifically, what), couldn't care less how much money EON is spending to promote NTTD? Answer: coronavirus. The global situation on September 16th may be very different to where we will be in November.
  • RogerJonMoorePertweeRogerJonMoorePertwee UK
    Posts: 348
    To expect the film to be delayed isn't ridiculous, considering there is an ongoing global pandemic. It means being cautiously optimistic.
    Expecting that something that you're looking forward to experiencing is going to be delayed isn't being optimistic in any sense of the word, it's pessimistic because you're expecting something to go wrong and for a delay to happen.
  • RogerJonMoorePertweeRogerJonMoorePertwee UK
    Posts: 348
    I genuinely think that a February bump is necessary. I understand that the marketplace probably won't be much different at all from November. We will still have social distancing, capacity restrictions and masks.

    Here's a post supporting a delay.
  • RogerJonMoorePertweeRogerJonMoorePertwee UK
    Posts: 348
    November 2021 has to be better than the very risky November 20. By this time next year a vaccine may have been rolled out. Case numbers are increasing in UK and there is talk of increasing lockdown measures if the group of six strategy doesn't work. It's not as if interest is accumulating on the $200 million. By next November, we're just a month away from the 60th anniversary which will be a valuable marketing tool.
    Here's another one.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2020 Posts: 15,723
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    To expect the film to be delayed isn't ridiculous, considering there is an ongoing global pandemic. It means being cautiously optimistic.
    Expecting that something that you're looking forward to experiencing is going to be delayed isn't being optimistic in any sense of the word, it's pessimistic because you're expecting something to go wrong and for a delay to happen.

    No point in answering you anymore. You are just a sad troll. Thanks for wasting my time yet again with your gibberish.

    Keep believing you are the only worthy Bond fan. It is quite sad to witness. As is your failure to understand anything anyone ever tells you on this website.

    ----

    Now, can we please return to the discussion at hand now that the trolls are identified and can be ignored?

    After ‘Tenet’ stumbles and ‘Wonder Woman 2’ moves, movie theaters brace for rough fall.

    https://variety.com/2020/film/news/tenet-movie-theaters-coronavirus-no-time-to-die-1234771424/
  • RogerJonMoorePertweeRogerJonMoorePertwee UK
    Posts: 348
    Expecting something to be delayed is hardly an optimistic point of view, is it? Thinking that that is being 'cautiously optimistic' is gibberish in my mind.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,231
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    I genuinely think that a February bump is necessary. I understand that the marketplace probably won't be much different at all from November. We will still have social distancing, capacity restrictions and masks.

    Here's a post supporting a delay.

    There is a difference between something maybe being necessary and wanting it to happen though. Nobody wants a delay. Everyone here would have wanted NTTD in theatres this time last year. In a perfect world that's what we would have gotten. But unfortunately, the world sucks at the moment and studios need it to be less sucky for their films to thrive. It's just how it is.

    And I say this as someone who believes that EoN/Universal will stick to their guns regarding NTTD in November.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2020 Posts: 15,723
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    I genuinely think that a February bump is necessary. I understand that the marketplace probably won't be much different at all from November. We will still have social distancing, capacity restrictions and masks.

    Here's a post supporting a delay.

    There is a difference between something maybe being necessary and wanting it to happen though. Nobody wants a delay. Everyone here would have wanted NTTD in theatres this time last year. In a perfect world that's what we would have gotten. But unfortunately, the world sucks at the moment and studios need it to be less sucky for their films to thrive. It's just how it is.

    And I say this as someone who believes that EoN/Universal will stick to their guns regarding NTTD in November.

    I posted in the NTTD trailer thread when the second trailer dropped that November can't come soon enough. How can I live with myself being so pessimistic? I should stop calling myself a Bond fan too.

    And yes, with Wonder Woman and Black Widow being delayed yet again this past week, it is perfectly reasonable to assume another NTTD delay isn't impossible to happen. That does not make you or me pessimistic. Only the utter fruitcake that you quoted in your post would claim that. ;-)
  • RogerJonMoorePertweeRogerJonMoorePertwee UK
    Posts: 348
    And yes, with Wonder Woman and Black Widow being delayed yet again this past week, it is perfectly reasonable to assume another NTTD delay isn't impossible to happen. That does not make you or me pessimistic. Only the utter fruitcake that you quoted in your post would claim that.
    With what I have read, Black Widow hasn't actually been delayed yet, it's been reported but it hasn't been officially delayed yet. I haven't jumped the gun with that.
  • RogerJonMoorePertweeRogerJonMoorePertwee UK
    Posts: 348
    There is a difference between something maybe being necessary and wanting it to happen though. Nobody wants a delay. Everyone here would have wanted NTTD in theatres this time last year. In a perfect world that's what we would have gotten. But unfortunately, the world sucks at the moment and studios need it to be less sucky for their films to thrive. It's just how it is.

    And I say this as someone who believes that EoN/Universal will stick to their guns regarding NTTD in November.
    Thank you for your post, you do make some very good posts. I do think if November's not possible, it's better at that EON to release it on VOD at that point rather than delay it again for another date which also isn't set in stone. It just feels like there's a lot of negative talk on here about the film being released right now. Thanks again. 🙂
  • tonesmalones09tonesmalones09 Minneapolis
    Posts: 28
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    There is a difference between something maybe being necessary and wanting it to happen though. Nobody wants a delay. Everyone here would have wanted NTTD in theatres this time last year. In a perfect world that's what we would have gotten. But unfortunately, the world sucks at the moment and studios need it to be less sucky for their films to thrive. It's just how it is.

    And I say this as someone who believes that EoN/Universal will stick to their guns regarding NTTD in November.
    Thank you for your post, you do make some very good posts. I do think if November's not possible, it's better at that EON to release it on VOD at that point rather than delay it again for another date which also isn't set in stone. It just feels like there's a lot of negative talk on here about the film being released right now. Thanks again. 🙂

    I guess I'll ask it this way. Would you still want it released to VOD if you knew that it had almost no chance to recoup its budget? I think we all want to see NTTD as soon as we can, but we also want EON/MGM to make a healthy profit from it to ensure more Bond films are made with this scope and scale right? I don't think any of us know the financial ramifications of NTTD being released to VOD and only making $200-$300M but safe to assume that would be very bad.
  • Jan1985Jan1985
    Posts: 625
    echo wrote: »
    Eon isn't stupid. They know they have a good product (even SP did well, despite the reviews) and they will wait to release Craig's final film when the moment is right.

    Clearly, anything indoors (aside from staying at home) is more risky than being outside, for now. Anyone who doesn't see that is denying reality. Wear a mask and stay away from other people.

    WB/Tenet did Eon a huge favor by showing them that it is too soon for NTTD.

    But going to the movies is not more risky than it was before corona.
    I would say that it is even more safe than it was before.
    Last winter you could get all kinds of illnesses when going to a crowded theatre.

    Now you have social distanced seating, face masks, good air condition and nothing bad will happen.
    There is no known case of an infection during a movie screening.

    This is not denying reality. This is reality.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2020 Posts: 15,723
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    echo wrote: »
    Eon isn't stupid. They know they have a good product (even SP did well, despite the reviews) and they will wait to release Craig's final film when the moment is right.

    Clearly, anything indoors (aside from staying at home) is more risky than being outside, for now. Anyone who doesn't see that is denying reality. Wear a mask and stay away from other people.

    WB/Tenet did Eon a huge favor by showing them that it is too soon for NTTD.

    But going to the movies is not more risky than it was before corona.
    I would say that it is even more safe than it was before.
    Last winter you could get all kinds of illnesses when going to a crowded theatre.

    Now you have social distanced seating, face masks, good air condition and nothing bad will happen.
    There is no known case of an infection during a movie screening.

    This is not denying reality. This is reality.

    And how about the reality of the box office numbers being too low, even if cinemas are deemed 100% safe?

    Cinemas can even be declared 200% safe, or 300% safe. It won't magically make attendance rise.

  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,278
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    And it's keeping theatres alive internationally.

    This is called 'whatsaboutism' and shows you refuse to admit Tenet is doing so catastrophically bad in the USA
    No. It shows that you don't really care to read. For the second time:
    Zekidk wrote: »
    the domestic sales are truly a disaster, I can agree with that.
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    But you can continue to ignore the US box office

    For the third time:
    Zekidk wrote: »
    the domestic sales are truly a disaster, I can agree with that.
    Zekidk wrote: »
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    that releasing a big budget film during a pandemic was a stupid idea.

    My local theatre operator strongly disagrees.
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    Again, just because Tenet is doing good in your country or in your local theaters does not mean Tenet's world-wide numbers aren't in flop territory.
    Can you please make up your mind?
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    And as I said: $200 million world-wide given the pandemic is a strong number.

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