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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    The more I think of it, the dumber the decision to add Martian Manhunter is. It feels like Snyder just wanted to go for a cool visual capper for the ending but didn’t even bother to think of the implications of making such a retcon. It just makes MM look horrible.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,425
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember the previous film - was the scene with Luthor and Deathstroke the last scene before the credits or was it a mid-credits scene?

    Suicide Squad had a mid-credits scene with Wayne and Waller, if I remember that one correctly too.

    In JL the mid-credits are Flash and Superman commencing a race, and then the post-credits is the scene with Luthor and Deathstroke.

    Whedon wisely ended the film exactly where it needed with Superman flying up into the sky. I’m actually amazed that ending montage was mostly Snyder’s work, because it SHOUKD be how you end the film and yet they were immediately followed by those scenes that should have been relegated mid/post-credits.

    I don’t think I’ve seen those before. I must’ve turned it off! :)
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The more I think of it, the dumber the decision to add Martian Manhunter is. It feels like Snyder just wanted to go for a cool visual capper for the ending but didn’t even bother to think of the implications of making such a retcon. It just makes MM look horrible.

    In what way? He seems (curiously) interested in Lois’ well-being, but I didn’t think he was horrible..? Because he didn’t join in with the fights against Zod and Steppenwolf? Unless you mean he literally looks ugly?

    Another thing I didn’t quite get: they had such a tight plan for reviving Superman, but they didn’t make a plan for picking up the Motherbox afterwards? The thing which was about to destroy the world? I get that they were distracted by Superman having to be ‘restrained’ (which was a dumb idea) but they forgot about the thing that could destroy the world. Just a bit stupid.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    mtm wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember the previous film - was the scene with Luthor and Deathstroke the last scene before the credits or was it a mid-credits scene?

    Suicide Squad had a mid-credits scene with Wayne and Waller, if I remember that one correctly too.

    In JL the mid-credits are Flash and Superman commencing a race, and then the post-credits is the scene with Luthor and Deathstroke.

    Whedon wisely ended the film exactly where it needed with Superman flying up into the sky. I’m actually amazed that ending montage was mostly Snyder’s work, because it SHOUKD be how you end the film and yet they were immediately followed by those scenes that should have been relegated mid/post-credits.

    I don’t think I’ve seen those before. I must’ve turned it off! :)
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The more I think of it, the dumber the decision to add Martian Manhunter is. It feels like Snyder just wanted to go for a cool visual capper for the ending but didn’t even bother to think of the implications of making such a retcon. It just makes MM look horrible.

    In what way? He seems (curiously) interested in Lois’ well-being, but I didn’t think he was horrible..? Because he didn’t join in with the fights against Zod and Steppenwolf? Unless you mean he literally looks ugly?

    Another thing I didn’t quite get: they had such a tight plan for reviving Superman, but they didn’t make a plan for picking up the Motherbox afterwards? The thing which was about to destroy the world? I get that they were distracted by Superman having to be ‘restrained’ (which was a dumb idea) but they forgot about the thing that could destroy the world. Just a bit stupid.

    I don't think they planned for the Mother Box to get blown out of the ship. Yes, someone (say, the Flash) should have gone looking for the thing, but when your sun soaking plot device has just flown the coop, apparently he becomes a priority. At the very least, it landed next to someone who knew what to do about it.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    .....which is a big improvement on it simply being left in the carpark in the previous cut, I would say. And I found the scene that followed genuinely quite affecting, so there's that too!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,425
    Agent007391 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember the previous film - was the scene with Luthor and Deathstroke the last scene before the credits or was it a mid-credits scene?

    Suicide Squad had a mid-credits scene with Wayne and Waller, if I remember that one correctly too.

    In JL the mid-credits are Flash and Superman commencing a race, and then the post-credits is the scene with Luthor and Deathstroke.

    Whedon wisely ended the film exactly where it needed with Superman flying up into the sky. I’m actually amazed that ending montage was mostly Snyder’s work, because it SHOUKD be how you end the film and yet they were immediately followed by those scenes that should have been relegated mid/post-credits.

    I don’t think I’ve seen those before. I must’ve turned it off! :)
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The more I think of it, the dumber the decision to add Martian Manhunter is. It feels like Snyder just wanted to go for a cool visual capper for the ending but didn’t even bother to think of the implications of making such a retcon. It just makes MM look horrible.

    In what way? He seems (curiously) interested in Lois’ well-being, but I didn’t think he was horrible..? Because he didn’t join in with the fights against Zod and Steppenwolf? Unless you mean he literally looks ugly?

    Another thing I didn’t quite get: they had such a tight plan for reviving Superman, but they didn’t make a plan for picking up the Motherbox afterwards? The thing which was about to destroy the world? I get that they were distracted by Superman having to be ‘restrained’ (which was a dumb idea) but they forgot about the thing that could destroy the world. Just a bit stupid.

    I don't think they planned for the Mother Box to get blown out of the ship. Yes, someone (say, the Flash) should have gone looking for the thing, but when your sun soaking plot device has just flown the coop, apparently he becomes a priority. At the very least, it landed next to someone who knew what to do about it.

    Yeah, considering how cautious they were about using it and how they knew they'd attract attention, you'd think one (of the five!) could've had a look around for it :D Batman just disappears for ages anyway!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,186
    mtm wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    I'm trying to remember the previous film - was the scene with Luthor and Deathstroke the last scene before the credits or was it a mid-credits scene?

    Suicide Squad had a mid-credits scene with Wayne and Waller, if I remember that one correctly too.

    In JL the mid-credits are Flash and Superman commencing a race, and then the post-credits is the scene with Luthor and Deathstroke.

    Whedon wisely ended the film exactly where it needed with Superman flying up into the sky. I’m actually amazed that ending montage was mostly Snyder’s work, because it SHOUKD be how you end the film and yet they were immediately followed by those scenes that should have been relegated mid/post-credits.

    I don’t think I’ve seen those before. I must’ve turned it off! :)
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The more I think of it, the dumber the decision to add Martian Manhunter is. It feels like Snyder just wanted to go for a cool visual capper for the ending but didn’t even bother to think of the implications of making such a retcon. It just makes MM look horrible.

    In what way? He seems (curiously) interested in Lois’ well-being, but I didn’t think he was horrible..? Because he didn’t join in with the fights against Zod and Steppenwolf? Unless you mean he literally looks ugly?

    Another thing I didn’t quite get: they had such a tight plan for reviving Superman, but they didn’t make a plan for picking up the Motherbox afterwards? The thing which was about to destroy the world? I get that they were distracted by Superman having to be ‘restrained’ (which was a dumb idea) but they forgot about the thing that could destroy the world. Just a bit stupid.

    You don't need a plan with Superman on your side. ;-)
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,848
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Now with two different cuts, I think I could actually make my own alternate cut that blends the two versions because there’s additions by Whedon that I actually miss in the Snyder cut, such as Batman calming down a nervous Flash.

    Flash: “I don’t know what to do, I’ve never been in battle, I don’t know if I can help these people.”
    Batman: “Save just one.”
    Flash: “Which one?”
    Batman: “Don’t think, just do it. Get in, get out.”
    Flash: “And then what do I do next?”
    Batman: “You’ll know.”

    It’s a good bit because it shows Batman’s experience with having worked with Robin before and that it shows him as a natural team leader, even if he doesn’t see himself like that.

    I wouldn’t use all the Whedon material of course. There’s aspects Snyder pulled off better “he’s never faced us, not together”.

    It also goes without saying I would trim the crap out of all the excessive fat. I actually want to watch this again, but I don’t want to endure 4 freaking hours. That’s just insane.
    Is there enough for two films?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,186
    The way I see it, The Snyder Cut is a film as well as a clip show for DC fans. I won't argue with the "excessive fat" comment, but I want to point out that I'm licking my fingers during and after the film because the fat tastes good.

    Perhaps I'm not really seeing this "film" as a "film" in the purest narrative sense; perhaps I am rather seeing it as a montage of fan-service moments, despite the fact that I also want to compliment this film for being far more cohesive and narratively "fleshed-out" than the theatrical cut.

    Four hours of this is still perfectly enjoyable in my book. And yes, I have seen the film three times now, and still no complaints. I guess I'm just a kid in a candy store, looking for a sugar rush. ;-)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited March 2021 Posts: 8,188
    I pretty much think of it like the extended versions of the LOTR films. Peter Jackson himself views the theatrical cuts as his director cuts, and that the extended versions are really just for he fans that want to bask in the world of Middle Earth regardless of pacing and practicality to releasing a film in theaters since its regelated to home video.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,161
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.superherohype.com/movies/494944-hbo-max-confirms-zack-snyders-justice-league-justice-is-gray-is-coming/amp
    I heard a rumour Justice League: Justice is Gray has 20 minutes additional scenes.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    God, why? 4 hours is long enough.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Hell, the movie is already desaturated as it is.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,425
    I don’t get the appeal of b/W versions of colour films, but I guess if people enjoy it then fair enough. I’d be amazed if there were any scenes he edited out though, it doesn’t feel like it.

    Any excitement about Superman wearing a black version of his costume will be deleted won’t it? There’ll be no way of telling! :)
    They’d have to take out that scene where he ignores one version of his costume to pick an identical one! :D
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    mtm wrote: »
    I don’t get the appeal of b/W versions of colour films, but I guess if people enjoy it then fair enough. I’d be amazed if there were any scenes he edited out though, it doesn’t feel like it.

    Any excitement about Superman wearing a black version of his costume will be deleted won’t it? There’ll be no way of telling! :)
    They’d have to take out that scene where he ignores one version of his costume to pick an identical one! :D

    It depends on the film; the B/W versions of “ The Mist” and Logan” are outstanding .

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,425
    I watched a bit of the Logan one; to me it was the same but with less colour: it didn't add anything for me. If it does for you that's totally cool.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    mtm wrote: »
    I watched a bit of the Logan one; to me it was the same but with less colour: it didn't add anything for me. If it does for you that's totally cool.

    Thanks for allowing me to enjoy it. ;)

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,425
    I don't know what you want me to say..? Was I being unreasonable in some way?

    My experience isn't the same as yours. But you're hardly alone in thinking the b/w versions are good so it's not for me to say that everyone is wrong, just that it's something that doesn't work for me. Why that invites a snarky reply I don't know.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    I have generally enjoyed the B&W versions of any of the films that I've seen, but there's a part of me that wishes they were a bit more experimental with it - especially in the case of comic-book films where strong, vivid illustrations are ingrained in the public's perception of them. In the case of Logan, which was (finally) our first bloodily violent film with Hugh Jackman in character and had a lot of hype surrounding that fact, the black and white version takes away the sadistic novelty of seeing severed limbs and bloody adamantium claws for the first time. Now, a black and white version which kept the reds, in a sort of Sin City-style palette? That's something I would have liked to see, personally. Just something a bit more creative, I guess.

    Snyder is renowned for his visuals, so I would have enjoyed an even more indulgent grade similar to the above idea with his version of JL. One thing I will say about a B&W grade is that the VFX will likely be less flawed or at least less noticeable, as it's often the grading on those elements (as much as detail) that make them stick out as much as they do.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    https://www.comicbookmovie.com/justice_league/justice-league-zack-snyder-reveals-plans-for-batgirl-and-harley-quinn-in-his-snyder-cut-sequels-a183395#gs.wan4ad

    https://www.comicbookmovie.com/justice_league/justice-league-3-would-have-served-as-zack-snyders-long-awaited-man-of-steel-sequel-a183400#gs.wan5jl
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    mtm wrote: »
    I don't know what you want me to say..? Was I being unreasonable in some way?

    My experience isn't the same as yours. But you're hardly alone in thinking the b/w versions are good so it's not for me to say that everyone is wrong, just that it's something that doesn't work for me. Why that invites a snarky reply I don't know.

    Lighten up Francis , it was just a good natured poke.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,425
    If it were good natured you'd say sorry for it appearing to be otherwise. I was actually trying to be nice and not say you're wrong to enjoy it and yet you had to be snarky about it. Tiring.
  • RogerJonMoorePertweeRogerJonMoorePertwee UK
    Posts: 348
    I followed some of the discussion on here and some other websites about the Snyder Cut for a while now and I just wanted to ask a question.

    I've been meaning to get into the DCEU films for a while now - up till now I've only seen Suicide Squad (the theatrical cut) when it came out in cinemas because I was interested in the concept. As films, I'm most interested in seeing the Wonder Woman films, Aquaman and Shazam but I do want to see all of the films in order (just like how I've done so for the MCU).

    In terms of Justice League, should I watch the theatrical cut in between Wonder Woman and Aquaman and watch the Snyder Cut later as an extra / alternative viewing of the film (and compare the two), or should I just watch the Snyder Cut in place of the theatrical cut?
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    mtm wrote: »
    If it were good natured you'd say sorry for it appearing to be otherwise. I was actually trying to be nice and not say you're wrong to enjoy it and yet you had to be snarky about it. Tiring.

    Sigh... have you tried adding fiber to your diet?
    Now that is snark and I’m moving on.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    I followed some of the discussion on here and some other websites about the Snyder Cut for a while now and I just wanted to ask a question.

    I've been meaning to get into the DCEU films for a while now - up till now I've only seen Suicide Squad (the theatrical cut) when it came out in cinemas because I was interested in the concept. As films, I'm most interested in seeing the Wonder Woman films, Aquaman and Shazam but I do want to see all of the films in order (just like how I've done so for the MCU).

    In terms of Justice League, should I watch the theatrical cut in between Wonder Woman and Aquaman and watch the Snyder Cut later as an extra / alternative viewing of the film (and compare the two), or should I just watch the Snyder Cut in place of the theatrical cut?
    It is all subjective, but I think the Snyder cut is the better one. As for the continuity, it doesn t really matter. Why not watch both, if you have the time?
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    I followed some of the discussion on here and some other websites about the Snyder Cut for a while now and I just wanted to ask a question.

    I've been meaning to get into the DCEU films for a while now - up till now I've only seen Suicide Squad (the theatrical cut) when it came out in cinemas because I was interested in the concept. As films, I'm most interested in seeing the Wonder Woman films, Aquaman and Shazam but I do want to see all of the films in order (just like how I've done so for the MCU).

    In terms of Justice League, should I watch the theatrical cut in between Wonder Woman and Aquaman and watch the Snyder Cut later as an extra / alternative viewing of the film (and compare the two), or should I just watch the Snyder Cut in place of the theatrical cut?

    I'd watch Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman 1984, Man Of Steel, Batman v Superman, the Snyder Cut, and then Aquaman in that order if you wanted to be timeline strict about it.

    As for the Whedon vs Snyder cut - the latter is more consistent in characterisation with the films around it and is generally just a better film overall, so it's for those reasons alone I'd go with that over the Whedon film.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited March 2021 Posts: 8,188
    Should be kept in mind that future DCEU films aren’t beholden to the Snyder cut, so it won’t align as far as continuity goes. Such as how Mera is depicted with her different accent and her saying her parents are dead, even though we see her father alive and well in AQUAMAN.

    Snyder had confirmed that his cut isn’t necessarily canon, which is why his fans have been calling for #RestoreTheSnyderVerse because now it’s not enough that we got Snyder’s version of JL, we need him back in charge of DCEU.

    Given his treatment of Superman, NO THANKS. I’m glad he left. I’ve liked the movies much more after he left.
  • RogerJonMoorePertweeRogerJonMoorePertwee UK
    Posts: 348
    I'd watch Wonder Woman, Wonder Woman 1984, Man Of Steel, Batman v Superman, the Snyder Cut, and then Aquaman in that order if you wanted to be timeline strict about it.
    Thanks although I know the rough timeline of the films. I meant as in watching them in release order (which is how I've always watched the MCU films).
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,161
    https://geekositymag.com/hbo-max-and-netflix-offering-zack-snyder-exclusivity-deals/
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    https://www.comicbookmovie.com/dc_films/zatanna-movie-taps-promising-young-woman-director-emerald-fennell-to-pen-the-script-a183417#gs.wb2iul

    It seems that DC is going from Zack Snyder and The Stone Quarry to JJ Abrams and Bad Robot.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,425
    RogerJonMoorePertwee wrote: »
    I followed some of the discussion on here and some other websites about the Snyder Cut for a while now and I just wanted to ask a question.

    I've been meaning to get into the DCEU films for a while now - up till now I've only seen Suicide Squad (the theatrical cut) when it came out in cinemas because I was interested in the concept. As films, I'm most interested in seeing the Wonder Woman films, Aquaman and Shazam but I do want to see all of the films in order (just like how I've done so for the MCU).

    In terms of Justice League, should I watch the theatrical cut in between Wonder Woman and Aquaman and watch the Snyder Cut later as an extra / alternative viewing of the film (and compare the two), or should I just watch the Snyder Cut in place of the theatrical cut?

    I'd say the Snyder cut is the superior: as others have mentioned there are one or two scenes in the Whedon one which are nice to have, but the Snyder one makes more sense- if you're up for four hours of it I wouldn't bother with the theatrical one.
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    https://geekositymag.com/hbo-max-and-netflix-offering-zack-snyder-exclusivity-deals/

    That's a confusingly written article :)

    "As I have previously reported, the Snyderverse being restored theatrically is not impossible.

    However, there is a chance if Zack Snyder’s Justice League knocked it out of the park."

    Does he mean 'however'?
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Should be kept in mind that future DCEU films aren’t beholden to the Snyder cut, so it won’t align as far as continuity goes. Such as how Mera is depicted with her different accent and her saying her parents are dead, even though we see her father alive and well in AQUAMAN.

    Snyder had confirmed that his cut isn’t necessarily canon, which is why his fans have been calling for #RestoreTheSnyderVerse because now it’s not enough that we got Snyder’s version of JL, we need him back in charge of DCEU.

    Given his treatment of Superman, NO THANKS. I’m glad he left. I’ve liked the movies much more after he left.

    From watching these films and some of the other ones over the last couple of weeks, it has weirdly left me with a hunger (and not a desire to never see again as you might expect!) for a really good Superman film. After all these years it's only really happened once (or twice, arguably): it must be possible to make a good Superman film? I'd be keen to see it.

    I was watching quite a good documentary on YouTube about the history of the Superman films through the 80s and 90s and I did think that just maybe the Kevin Smith version of Superman Lives might have actually been alright. Seemed to be slightly light on an emotional story for the main characters, but with a bit of work it might have been fun. I'd always thought the various versions of that film were supposed to be terrible, and Nic Cage seemed all wrong, but now I think it might have been okay. Brendan Fraser was another suggestion which I think probably could have been good too.

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