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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,407
    DCisared wrote: »
    imranbecks wrote: »
    Belinus wrote: »
    First post here and I’ll make it short but have to get it off my chest… the first Bond film I saw in the cinema was Moonraker. I’ve been a massive fan ever since. I have loved the Daniel Craig films and the Bond that he’s portrayed but having now seen No Time To Die I feel betrayed. I loved the pre titles scene and enjoyed the first two hours. I like the Madeleine character and was happy that in DC’s last film that Bond had a child however the last part of the film killed any love for that film I could ever have. To me, it was an ego trip for Daniel Craig and it has not only killed this version of Bond but soured a lot of the love I have for the whole franchise. I am totally devastated at the ending, I maybe naively never saw it coming but for Bond to not only die but to do so by simply giving up is unforgivable. I may change my mind over time but for the moment I am not sure I could even watch another Bond film again. I get that’s over dramatic but it’s how I feel. Rant over :)

    Exactly how I feel. Devastated. I loved the Daniel Craig era. But to kill his Bond off like that in his final film is like a betrayal to the fans, old and new, who supported the franchise during Craig's tenure as Bond. Right now I'm still contemplating to even watch it again. Maybe I'll leave before the explosion takes him out. Urggh that scene is just too painful to relive again.

    I would urge anyone to take in more viewings. I felt like you right up until seeing it for the second time but Im really coming round to thinking it's a poetic finale to Craig's Bond. As dark as everything he, Madeline and Mathilde have been through, I think it's true to this interpretation of Bond. Even if it's not the path I would have chosen.

    Ye, I am hoping to go again, possibly Tuesday, with the Missus! I didnt like SF on first viewing, (and subsequent viewings unfortunately), but am hoping this will be different! Actually, reading some of the positive views on here and listening to critic Mark Kermodes opinion has given me a bit of a different slant!
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    edited October 2021 Posts: 3,327
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    Well, it would be fruitless to point it out you haven't noticed anything else. But only a couple pages ago someone complained about the Jack London quote that was used in the film and in Ian Fleming's You Only Live Twice, because they felt they had a better idea that would be more in line with Ian Fleming's Bond, because they didn't know very much about Ian Fleming or his work.
    There's no need to be a jerk @ProfJoeButcher. You're hardly endearing yourself to the community. I told you I'd read YOLT a long time ago, probably before you were even born. It's easy to forget a Jack London reference.

    Sorry to have sounded salty. But I mean, imagine you're writing these movies, the fans want Fleming, you put in Fleming, the fans don't recognize it and suggest you should have put some Fleming in instead. You'd start banging your head against the wall. It was just about fan demands and whether they know what they want.

    Again, where was one, just ONE Fleming adapted scene in NTTD (other than the poisonous garden)?

    And when I say Fleming adapted scene, I mean something like the scenes in LTK or FYEO, or TLD, or even OP. Entire moments used and adapted fairly closely. Not a subtle blink-and-you-miss-it nod or reference name check.
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,711
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    This film had an ending I did not think possible to pull off; I was against it. It is in my top 5 of all time for now, will probably stay in the top 10 for sure. And I'm happy with the box office stats at the moment. I hope it does great worldwide. Cheers! B-)

    I can relate to all of this. I didn't like the idea on paper, but it worked for me just fine in the film. And I walked into the cinema hoping for NTTD to make it into my top 20 somehow, but it's in the same top 5-10 region you describe.

  • muzz100muzz100
    Posts: 82
    Maybe one way EON can spin the YOLT and OHMSS references is - and bear with me - something around the fact the films reversed the order of the books, he didn’t die then of course, he hasn’t died now. They’ve loaded this film with references which make it a bit of a nostalgia fest, but give them the chance later to rely on them to get themselves out of a continuity nightmare. Impossible on the face of it, of course. But it will have to be improbable, while having some connection with the canon. Hence the use of the Jack London quote. And whilst retooling the end of OHMSS the film for this film was on one level touching, it also felt to me a little unreal, especially that shot of the sunlight into the car. Who’s to say it’s not later just discarded as an alternative possible world ending. Yes that would jar, but if James Bond Will Return, there will have to be some quite outrageous tricks played. He will look different, he will spend a lot of the film proving to Mi6 it’s really him, etc. I’m still processing this one, btw.
  • UnivexUnivex
    Posts: 6,709
    Aren't we all, @muzz100, aren't we all...? :D
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I don't think a continuity nightmare awaits. There is no need, and hasn't been in the whole franchise's history, for the "next Bond film" to cohesively fit with the previous one or anywhere in the series. Options are wide open.
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    I can't wait for all the fan art to come from this film. I'm imagining all the ways our members can use bond and Dou dou to be creative =((
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    I don't think a continuity nightmare awaits. There is no need, and hasn't been in the whole franchise's history, for the "next Bond film" to cohesively fit with the previous one or anywhere in the series. Options are wide open.

    Bond hasn’t died in any of the previous films though…
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes, but the new Bond is still Bond. I just don't have a problem with it and I think general audiences can accept that.
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    I’m not so sure. They just need to drop a small percentage of revenue to have a big impact on the future of the films
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    jetsetwilly wrote: »
    ProfJoeButcher wrote: »
    jetsetwilly wrote: »

    Where was the loaded Fleming material in NTTD, other than a garden with some poisonous plants?

    Well, it would be fruitless to point it out you haven't noticed anything else.
    Sorry, you still have given no explanation of loaded Fleming material in NTTD. To me, loaded Fleming material accurately done, even if not taken directly as an adaptation from the novel, would be something like LTK. That film has a few adapted scenes, and feels very Fleming throughout.

    Had NTTD given us not just the garden of death, but then Bond escaping the island with amnesia, not knowing anymore who he is, or that he has a child, and sailing off to Russia because it sounds familiar to him - then yes. I would call NTTD having some Fleming material.

    And oh boy would that ending have been more satisfying than the one they gave us instead. It would still be a tragic ending, but they wouldn't be going for a cheap shock tactic to keep the Marvel fans happy.

    Yes the proper YOLT ending would have been infinitely preferable to what we got. It still would have ended Craig's era decisively with a proper piece of Fleming material, but still gave everyone an out.

    There we go. I liked some elements of the film, but Babs, Wilson and Craig have gone way too far this time.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,480
    This series can weather it. Look at the whole history of the films.
    With CR it surged again and, like Goldeneye before it, "saved the franchise" (some exaggeration in that, but that was an attitude and impression it seems many fans had and has some merit) ... and now with this strong ending for Daniel's Bond, it gives a solid footing for going forward. Much better than ending it with Spectre. Bodes well for the next future. And the whole "Who will be the next Bond?" excitement and buzz will be building up in 2022, no doubt about that.
  • muzz100muzz100
    Posts: 82
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    Yes, but the new Bond is still Bond. I just don't have a problem with it and I think general audiences can accept that.
    Belinus wrote: »
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    I don't think a continuity nightmare awaits. There is no need, and hasn't been in the whole franchise's history, for the "next Bond film" to cohesively fit with the previous one or anywhere in the series. Options are wide open.

    Bond hasn’t died in any of the previous films though…
    Continuity in the credibility sense. And yes he’s died. And that will have to be dealt with. Else it’s all a bit too Dr Who for me, thanks. But hey, all part of the ride. Not only have I finally bought some Bond blu rays, I’ll be looking for some more books ;)
  • CowleyCowley
    Posts: 486
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    And the whole "Who will be the next Bond?" excitement and buzz will be building up in 2022, no doubt about that.

    Oh absolutely. That'll engage, and no doubt probably enrage, fandom once again. The Craig era has been sealed off and we'll be starting afresh. Bond 26 could go anywhere and it's an exciting prospect.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I am very psyched to get the full extras on whatever DVD comes out; all the commentary! :)
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    This series can weather it. Look at the whole history of the films.
    and now with this strong ending for Daniel's Bond, it gives a solid footing for going forward. Much better than ending it with Spectre. Bodes well for the next future. And the whole "Who will be the next Bond?" excitement and buzz will be building up in 2022, no doubt about that.

    That’s opinion though. At this moment I couldn’t care less who the next Bond is, for me it’s over

  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,582
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Why is everyone so impressed by a film making them feel sad? I don’t have a problem with people crying but this obsession with “emotion” in everything from tv baking shows to feature films is like some type of addiction used to mask narrative faults and inability to engage an audience through other means.

    I prefer things like Raiders, Goldfinger, jaws. You know just balls out entertaining thrill rides that can exist without negative cheap shots.

    I think you are forgetting that what made Jaws work was the emotional connection the audience had with the characters.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Of course it is my opinion. And all members here have their own take.

    Also, I don't think it is particularly important for the next film to reference how the last Bond died. I haven't given it much thought, but I think they will find a way that is suitable. Personally, I'm happy if it's not mentioned, just intro a new Bond. I can see now full threads will be devoted to how the next Bond should be introduced, whether to tell the story connected to Craig's Bond dying, etc. Well, it should be interesting; the next 2 years. Never a dull moment. ;)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    If you were the writer and you had to kill Bond, and you had no option to keep him alive, how would you do it?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yeah, I am just not into creating my own scenarios in any way at the moment. Just enjoying the final film for what it is. Over the next week I'll start thinking of various new scenarios for the future, but going over how else to kill Bond just doesn't interest me. I know other members will be happy to write about that.
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    4EverBonded wrote: »
    Of course it is my opinion. And all members here have their own take.

    )

    Apologies if I came across as aggressive. I am just shocked at how upset I am about this film. I didn’t see the ending coming and feel it was a sun Bond-like as ending as you could get. The Romantic in me just wanted to see him finish the film, retired, with Madeline and Mathilde with him (which is also very un bond like)
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    No worries. We are on this forum because we are huge Bond fans. I think it near impossible for fans not to have strong opinions about this one. It is definitely an emotional, moving film. We will just vary whether we feel positive or negative.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited October 2021 Posts: 3,274
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    If you were the writer and you had to kill Bond, and you had no option to keep him alive, how would you do it?
    Getting shot by intruders while bedding an asian girl talking about Peking duck! :-)

    At least in NTTD he died as "007" and not just "commander Bond."
  • BondBond
    Posts: 503
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    If you were the writer and you had to kill Bond, and you had no option to keep him alive, how would you do it?
    Have him accidentally kill himself while tinkering around with one of Q's gadgets (Llewellyn's Q of course).

    Funeral eulogy: "He didn't pay attention, 007"
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,179
    Bond wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    If you were the writer and you had to kill Bond, and you had no option to keep him alive, how would you do it?
    Have him accidentally kill himself while tinkering around with one of Q's gadgets (Llewellyn's Q of course).

    Funeral eulogy: "He didn't pay attention, 007"

    Funnily, Peter Hunt did a prank on the producers where in FRWL he has Bond opening the brief case the wrong way then cuts to a massive explosion and credits.
  • HerrBondHerrBond Berlin
    Posts: 50
    I have really loved all the Craig movies. I even think QOS is a fantastic Bond movie. And I did also like NTTD until the last 15 minutes.
    They killed Felix - OK,
    they killed Ernst - OK, why not,
    they gave away his 007 - I don't care,
    Bond has a child - OK.
    But then letting Bond DIE in the easiest and dumbest pseudo-hero way is just too much. Thats not Fleming, that's just bullshit, sorry.
    I always wanted Craig back for another movie after SP - but with this ending he should have just left after SP. They have absolutely no idea how they are damaging the character of James Bond, who is much bigger than one movie or a couple of movies. They have ruined a legacy of 60 years in the silliest way. Why? To give Craig one last big blast? Are you f*** kidding me?
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited October 2021 Posts: 4,582
    Worth mentioning that Chris Cornell's lyrics, as we see the 007 status given to Bond, are "Are you willling to die?" Also, that the title of that song begins with two words: "You know."

    Bond is introduced in the blackest of blacks and goes out in the whitest of whites.

    Food for thought.

  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    HerrBond wrote: »
    I have really loved all the Craig movies. I even think QOS is a fantastic Bond movie. And I did also like NTTD until the last 15 minutes.
    They killed Felix - OK,
    they killed Ernst - OK, why not,
    they gave away his 007 - I don't care,
    Bond has a child - OK.
    But then letting Bond DIE in the easiest and dumbest pseudo-hero way is just too much. Thats not Fleming, that's just bullshit, sorry.
    I always wanted Craig back for another movie after SP - but with this ending he should have just left after SP. They have absolutely no idea how they are damaging the character of James Bond, who is much bigger than one movie or a couple of movies. They have ruined a legacy of 60 years in the silliest way. Why? To give Craig one last big blast? Are you f*** kidding me?

    Could do with a like button here but in its absence I couldn’t agree more

  • BondBond
    Posts: 503
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Bond wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    If you were the writer and you had to kill Bond, and you had no option to keep him alive, how would you do it?
    Have him accidentally kill himself while tinkering around with one of Q's gadgets (Llewellyn's Q of course).

    Funeral eulogy: "He didn't pay attention, 007"

    Funnily, Peter Hunt did a prank on the producers where in FRWL he has Bond opening the brief case the wrong way then cuts to a massive explosion and credits.
    Never heard that... Hilarious :))
  • StirredNotShakenStirredNotShaken Toronto
    Posts: 2,402
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Bond wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    If you were the writer and you had to kill Bond, and you had no option to keep him alive, how would you do it?
    Have him accidentally kill himself while tinkering around with one of Q's gadgets (Llewellyn's Q of course).

    Funeral eulogy: "He didn't pay attention, 007"

    Funnily, Peter Hunt did a prank on the producers where in FRWL he has Bond opening the brief case the wrong way then cuts to a massive explosion and credits.

    Hahahahahaha I never knew that. I'd love to see that. I get some fan could just make it in Premiere, but I'd love to see Hunt's version.
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