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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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Comments

  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    I have no hope that Bond survived. If anything it would make the story even worse. I just wish they hadn’t killed him off. Even if it’s a reboot with new stories / a much younger Bond etc, for me the damage is already done.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 942
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I'd really like to her people's thoughts on Madeleine and Mathilde as a mother and daughter, because I was personally extremely convinced by it. Seydoux, and even the child actress, really sold the close relationship they had.

    I thought they were very good together.
  • thetruththetruth
    Posts: 28
    Belinus wrote: »
    I have no hope that Bond survived. If anything it would make the story even worse. I just wish they hadn’t killed him off. Even if it’s a reboot with new stories / a much younger Bond etc, for me the damage is already done.

    I agree. What made Bond special is gone and can't come back. The magic has been broken.
  • muzz100muzz100
    Posts: 82
    There won’t be a period piece. It’s being spoofed by Kingsman already.

    I hope they keep the Mi6 gang btw. They’ve spent several films developing them, and they’re thoroughly fantastic actors. Some sort of continuity will be needed. It’s a balanced team. But it wound be easy. But it’s Bond. Anything is possible.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,205
    Madeline and Daughter were great they brought an extra dimension to what was going on, as DC's last film it works in the context of everything that led up to the reveal.

    We were tipped of subtly in the Pre Title sequence that Madeline was pregnant

    There was a lot of good visual story telling in NTTD.
  • JB770721JB770721
    edited October 2021 Posts: 11
    AgentM72 wrote: »

    Absolutely! So many wonderful callbacks and payoffs to Craig's era in this film, honestly. It's one of the most deep and self-aware Bond scripts we've had, certainly up there in the league with Casino and Skyfall. Maybe surpassing, just in terms of its sheer ambition as well.

    I beg to differ, it's this obsession with nods and the past that has hamstrung and made the films worse. Before the underground scene in DAD there were essentially no real nods or references in the films. The two most acclaimed Craig era films CR and SF feature no real nods or dwelling on the bond past 'mythos' aside from the DB5 garage scene (which i'm sure was added because of the 50th anniversary)

    Like I said earlier in this thread most acclaimed films by casual goers, fans and critics were CR and SF and they featured none of this, or the arcing story attempts

    NTTD like SP felt like they tried to glue in straight scenes from previous bonds to flesh it out e.g the car tip scene ala FYEO

  • LibrarianLibrarian
    edited October 2021 Posts: 312
    thetruth wrote: »
    Belinus wrote: »
    I have no hope that Bond survived. If anything it would make the story even worse. I just wish they hadn’t killed him off. Even if it’s a reboot with new stories / a much younger Bond etc, for me the damage is already done.

    I agree. What made Bond special is gone and can't come back. The magic has been broken.

    I don't agree. I still feel the magic and NTTD was quite good. Maybe not as good as Skyfall but really, really good.

    And Bond could be still alive... He could be found in next movie badly injured and undergo plastic surgery which would explain the new actor.
  • bondywondybondywondy Uk
    Posts: 346
    Okay, maybe Bond is dead.

    If Bond is dead.... every fan will have to decide if they want to continue supporting the franchise. I can't see a valid reason to see Bond 26 if Eon destroyed the magic of Bond, his heroic status etc. You'll be giving Eon and Amazon money they don't deserve.

    But the best reason you may be wrong about the death is the huge marketing potential of Bond returning from the dead. Seems a no-brainer golden marketing opportunity to me. Barbara Broccoli and Amazon will surely consider the marketing potential of Bond escaping death. That is the most compelling reason why everyone may be wrong about the demise of Mr James Bond. 😉
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    I haven't even seen the film yet but it seems obvious that Craig's era is its own, self-contained thing, and in turn, his journey from rookie 00 agent to death concludes the story. Surely the next era will start fresh with a new actor stepping into 007's shoes, without question of how Bond survived, where's Swann, etc. I think there's too much worry regarding the future here when Craig's voyage was one and done.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I haven't even seen the film yet but it seems obvious that Craig's era is its own, self-contained thing, and in turn, his journey from rookie 00 agent to death concludes the story. Surely the next era will start fresh with a new actor stepping into 007's shoes, without question of how Bond survived, where's Swann, etc. I think there's too much worry regarding the future here when Craig's voyage was one and done.

    No kidding! This isn’t rocket science!
  • BBallyBBally Cairo, Egypt
    Posts: 6
    I kind of wish Skyfall was Craig's final film so that his era wouldn't have ended on such a divisive note.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited October 2021 Posts: 8,188
    BBally wrote: »
    I kind of wish Skyfall was Craig's final film so that his era wouldn't have ended on such a divisive note.

    But it’s more fun this way!
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    Even if Barbara cared what moaning fans think, the math is simple:

    Fans who dislike ad hoc retcons > fans who dislike NTTD
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    thetruth wrote: »
    Belinus wrote: »
    I have no hope that Bond survived. If anything it would make the story even worse. I just wish they hadn’t killed him off. Even if it’s a reboot with new stories / a much younger Bond etc, for me the damage is already done.

    I agree. What made Bond special is gone and can't come back. The magic has been broken.

    Why??
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Re the ending, if you take all hope from the character, you also take it from the audience. Is the correct interpretation of the ending that Bond is a broken man and has given up fighting? given up hope? My interpretation could be wrong and I'm missing something. I was trying to think of iconic movie deaths where you can see the character still trying up to their last gasp (is this not the defintion of tense drama?) - Khan ("For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee") and, ironically, Malone ("what are you prepared to do?")

    The moment Bond is shot in the side, it's clear he's a dead man. Then he's poisoned, so even if he gets out, he can never touch Madeleine or his daughter ever again. So the scene is about Bond facing his death at the end, and I found that personally very emotional and powerful. Craig's performance here is superb. A man who wants to live, wants a future with a wife and a child, but he will never have that in the end. He's given his all for duty and country. So it's tragic and, in that way, very poignant.

    This is exactly how I felt, how I interpreted the ending, watching this film for the first time (I have seen it twice and will go again next weekend). I certainly felt Bond died giving his all ... for duty, for his country, and for his family. For me, throughout this ending, Bond was noble, heroic, tragic, and true to himself. It is gut wrenching. But appropriate, in my opinion; and Daniel's acting was superb.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Yeah, I don't really understand this idea that that franchise is now ruined. If you think about it, if Brosnan's James Bond died at the end of Die Another Day, we still would've got Casino Royale?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited October 2021 Posts: 12,480
    thelivingroyale wrote: »
    Yeah absolutely no chance they reverse it. Craig’s Bond is dead, we’ll get a reboot next.

    And if you don’t like that then cool, but can we not embarass ourselves with hyperbolic predictions over the death of one of the biggest moneymakers in cinema? NTTD is shaping up to be a big hit. Good reviews and it’s outdoing box office predictions. MGM has just been accquired by Amazon, who will definitely be seeing 007 themed dollar signs (and no chance are Amazon now considering pulling out of that deal over the ending, sorry but that’s “my uncle works at nintendo” territory) and there’s even a new video game on the way.

    If you didn’t enjoy it, I feel bad for you (genuinely, I’ve been there myself, a disappointing Bond film always hits you hard), but that doesn’t mean the series is failing.
    JB770721 wrote: »
    TheQueensPeace wrote: »
    There IS a cultural trend at work here: unearned, rushed, mawkish hero deaths in haste, onscreen, thereby one by one toppling the kind of escapist symbols that punctuated life's mundanities via vicarious fix of escapism

    It's the modern social media 'buzz' trend is what all movies are after. People will go to see him die. I remember the people who weren't massive marvel fans rushing to the cinema because they heard Iron Man dies at the end. In fact the past two Bond films have felt almost like they have tried to mimic Avengers, bring more of 'team' into action sequences M (even fighting in Spectre), Moneypenny etc, the deaths of major characters, the arcing story etc.

    It’s fine not to like the ending, but I don’t get how it was rushed or unearned. The whole film built up to that point perfectly imo, and they did a good job of making it feel natural in the context of the Craig era, by tying it into his ongoing themes.

    And I thought the MI6 regulars had nicely sized roles in this one. They had roles in the story, but imo it felt more organic than in SP. We didn’t have them running around in the field or anything like that.
    SpectreNumberTwo wrote: »
    No good or well known actor worth his salt is going to take the next movie except for money or if the script is banging.

    The next film will offer someone a chance to join a prestigious long running series, that’s been making more money and getting more critical acclaim than ever, playing one of the most iconic heroes in cinema (and a cultural icon in Britain), for obscene amounts of money, working with all sorts of big names and Oscar winners, and even getting free Aston Martin privileges. There isn’t a single actor in the world who would turn that down because they didn’t like the ending of the last film (and plenty do like it anyway, the film is doing well).

    It’s fine not to like the film, but please can we not project our opinions like this.

    I agree with all your points here. Just being clear-eyed and practical. The series will continue. I look forward to it all: much to talk about (the new Bond, new director, when will the next one hit the theatres, etc.). Meanwhile, I am very moved by and appreciate NTTD. I feel it was the fitting finale for Craig's Bond - and such a well crafted, beautiful film.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,205
    I am baffled by all the negative reviews on IMDb, there were loads of Fleming references and great Bond moments in this film though many reviews claim the opposite.

    Also complaints of being long and boring, personally I thought the pacing was good and despite its run time the film flew by.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Yeah, I don't really understand this idea that that franchise is now ruined. If you think about it, if Brosnan's James Bond died at the end of Die Another Day, we still would've got Casino Royale?

    “BUT NO ITS RUINED FOREVERRRR”
  • thetruththetruth
    Posts: 28
    I'm not sure why people are confused why I, and others, feel that this irrevocably changes/undermines Bond. 24 films in 60 years and Bond never dies. Think about that. How can Bond dying not change the character completely. The whole point of Bond is he's a fantasy figure that always finds a way out. We're not talking about Fellini/Bergman/Tarkovski films here. We don't need to work on developing and closing a narrative arc. Once the curtain has been pulled back and we can see the wizard, there's no going back to believing in Bond.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    thetruth wrote: »
    I'm not sure why people are confused why I, and others, feel that this irrevocably changes/undermines Bond. 24 films in 60 years and Bond never dies. Think about that. How can Bond dying not change the character completely. The whole point of Bond is he's a fantasy figure that always finds a way out. We're not talking about Fellini/Bergman/Tarkovski films here. We don't need to work on developing and closing a narrative arc. Once the curtain has been pulled back and we can see the wizard, there's no going back to believing in Bond.

    I disagree with this take. One of the appeals of Bond is that he’s human, and there’s nothing more human than facing your own mortality.
  • jobojobo
    edited October 2021 Posts: 7,507
    thetruth wrote: »
    I'm not sure why people are confused why I, and others, feel that this irrevocably changes/undermines Bond. 24 films in 60 years and Bond never dies. Think about that. How can Bond dying not change the character completely. The whole point of Bond is he's a fantasy figure that always finds a way out. We're not talking about Fellini/Bergman/Tarkovski films here. We don't need to work on developing and closing a narrative arc. Once the curtain has been pulled back and we can see the wizard, there's no going back to believing in Bond.

    So the "magic" of James Bond is the fact that he is immortal, invincible, indestructable?? Come on...
  • SimonSimon Keeping The British End Up...
    edited October 2021 Posts: 154
    thetruth wrote: »
    I'm not sure why people are confused why I, and others, feel that this irrevocably changes/undermines Bond. 24 films in 60 years and Bond never dies. Think about that. How can Bond dying not change the character completely. The whole point of Bond is he's a fantasy figure that always finds a way out. We're not talking about Fellini/Bergman/Tarkovski films here. We don't need to work on developing and closing a narrative arc. Once the curtain has been pulled back and we can see the wizard, there's no going back to believing in Bond.

    If the next film is good enough, you won't care what happened in NTTD. I depised what DAD did with the entire concept of Bond, but after CR all was well again. One film shouldn't undermine the other 24, even if this one doesn't personally sit well in your own head canon. I don't like NTTD, and my reasons are as valid as those who do, but one film shouldn't ruin a series. NTTD doesn't 'fit' for me, but GoldenEye will still be my rose-tinted favourite, and the PTS of TSWLM will still be epic.

    At least I hope that's the case for you as well.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I respect those whose opinions are complete opposite of mine. But I do hope that people are not clogging up social media sites and film sites like IMDb and others to skew things negatively in a spamming way ... like trolls just write hateful reviews for fun and rating it 1 star or something everywhere they can. I guess some people would do that. I simply prefer the film to shake out to an honest level of genuine reactions overall. It will be interesting to see where this film sits one month from now. I think critics in the U.S. will be split, but I expect about half will really like the movie a lot.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,205
    After Bond surfs a Tsunami in DAD honestly if Bond can come back from that he can come back from any 'perceived' situation. :))
  • vittoriacolonavittoriacolona Canada
    Posts: 25
    bondywondy wrote: »
    Okay, maybe Bond is dead.

    If Bond is dead.... every fan will have to decide if they want to continue supporting the franchise. I can't see a valid reason to see Bond 26 if Eon destroyed the magic of Bond, his heroic status etc. You'll be giving Eon and Amazon money they don't deserve.

    Let me guess....you hate the Star Wars sequel trilogy and think that Kathleen Kennedy should be fired as well?
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    I am baffled by all the negative reviews on IMDb, there were loads of Fleming references and great Bond moments in this film though many reviews claim the opposite.

    Also complaints of being long and boring, personally I thought the pacing was good and despite its run time the film flew by.

    (Adopts old woman loosing her teeth voice as she thoughtfully rubs her chin)

    It's one thing I have learned in all my years on the internet. Is that you need to learn to dismiss and ignore certain comments. Many of the negative comments are coming from beta males who just see Bond as a personal stand in, and represent a time when the hero wins without any or little effort. These are often the kind of people who have no purpose and thrust in life and think that the only way that they can succeed is that everyone else looses. And they become resentful and angry if anyone outshines them.

  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,205
    vittoriacolona wrote: »
    bondywondy wrote: »
    Okay, maybe Bond is dead.

    If Bond is dead.... every fan will have to decide if they want to continue supporting the franchise. I can't see a valid reason to see Bond 26 if Eon destroyed the magic of Bond, his heroic status etc. You'll be giving Eon and Amazon money they don't deserve.

    Let me guess....you hate the Star Wars sequel trilogy and think that Kathleen Kennedy should be fired as well?
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    I am baffled by all the negative reviews on IMDb, there were loads of Fleming references and great Bond moments in this film though many reviews claim the opposite.

    Also complaints of being long and boring, personally I thought the pacing was good and despite its run time the film flew by.

    (Adopts old woman loosing her teeth voice as she thoughtfully rubs her chin)

    It's one thing I have learned in all my years on the internet. Is that you need to learn to dismiss and ignore certain comments. Many of the negative comments are coming from beta males who just see Bond as a personal stand in, and represent a time when the hero wins without any or little effort. These are often the kind of people who have no purpose and thrust in life and think that the only way that they can succeed is that everyone else looses. And they become resentful and angry if anyone outshines them.

    Oh I dismiss them though still there is a lot, possibly review bombing.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    Regardless of whether you like all the decisions made in NTTD, I think nobody can make a serious argument it is not a significantly better film quality wise than DAD. The PTS alone is worth maybe two or three repeated cinema viewings.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Just saw the film again, I have more questions than answers this time if I'm honest.

    So M was categorically against even horrified by the government spying on citizens in Spectre, but not the same government altering DNA against enemies of the state to kill them with a virus?
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,025
    I like the way the ending was in the spirit of Ian Fleming. Loved the use of his quote at the end.
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