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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • ThepastykidThepastykid
    Posts: 553
    Madeleine was based in London, so it is likely the child is bilingual, but speaks French at home. She can understand James just fine though
  • JimjambondJimjambond
    Posts: 328
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    One thing that struck me about Mathilde, is that she is obviously French, but Bond talks to her in English and she replies in French. Would it have alienated general audiences too much, if Bond had spoken French to her?

    A minor gripe I know but it stood out to me upon last viewing. The girl who played Mathilde was great though and she looked like Lea and Daniel's child
    You know, even though we've seen Craig's Bond speak Spanish and ostensibly understand and say a few words in Italian, the character, at least cinematically is known to be able to speak several languages but I just never bough Craig's Bond as a multi linguistic like say, Brosnan's Bond for example.
  • AstonLotusAstonLotus
    Posts: 1,394
    Does anyone think they should have had a tribute to Sean and Roger in the credits?
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    The girl who played Mathilde was great though and she looked like Lea and Daniel's child
    +1
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    Thepastykid wrote: »
    Madeleine was based in London, so it is likely the child is bilingual, but speaks French at home. She can understand James just fine though

    Then again she watches Norwegian children's TV... So she's probably trilingual. (If that's a word).
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    edited October 2021 Posts: 1,351
    Smeets wrote: »
    ImpertinentGoon wrote: »
    That's the good part about NTTD and the ending of SP: Let time take it's toll and forget everything about NTTD. You want Bond driving away into the sunset? Well there's the end of SP for you. I am sure you can still buy the Blu-Ray collection of CR up to SP. Just consider that the Craig run and you're done. There will be no direct sequel to NTTD. At most there might be a few allusions to it somewhere in the future. Absolutely no need to ever engage again with a film that seems to cause some here such considerable emotional pain.
    Maybe someone will even do a fan edit of just taking the few seconds of Bond and Madeleine on the road in Italy in the PTS of NTTD up until Bond says "We have all the time in the world." and sticks it on the end of SP and everyone can be happy that James Bond has found a happy ending, got the girl and will just drive around the Italian countryside for eternity because nothing bad ever happens and he will never, ever die.

    So you think they went to the effort to put a daughter in and then won't bring that up in the subsequent film? I hope you're right but I suspect they have opened a can of worms here with the whole daughter thing.

    I don't think him having a daughter will come up again, no. I don't think they could make it work to just have a mention of a daughter, but her not being a plot element. In a way, him dying ties that off quite nicely. Had he somehow gotten off the island and then the recast happens, I personally would have been very confused as to whether he just abandoned his family or what just happened. That is why Tracy dies at the end of OHMSS. So that the story is tied-up and in the future they can just drop "He was married once, but she died" and that's that and don't have to do a whole "He was married once, but they seperated. She now lives in LA and has re-married. It's all a bit complicated." and then his ex-wife becomes a MacGuffin at some point or something like that.
    And if we want to do the whole bit that NTTD is the canonical death of James Bond in any incarnation (which I absolutely do not subscribe to), him meeting his daughter would be a canary in the coalmine situation. Once he meets her, he is going to get blown up shortly after...
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    One thing that struck me about Mathilde, is that she is obviously French, but Bond talks to her in English and she replies in French. Would it have alienated general audiences too much, if Bond had spoken French to her?

    A minor gripe I know but it stood out to me upon last viewing. The girl who played Mathilde was great though and she looked like Lea and Daniel's child

    I kind of bumped on that as well. That and Madeleine suddenly speaking English to her in the final scene so that the last moment of Craig's tenure isn't in French.

    BTW, new headcanon: Every story from here on out and possibly everything that has come before is Madeleine telling stories to her daughter. Craig is Bond Prime everyone else is just a figment of Madeleine's imagination. :))
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    My wife is French and we live in the Uk. Our son was brought up with English as a first language but his comprehension of French has always been excellent. As a 5 year old (he’s now 20) he would happily watch French or Uk Tv and would equally understand people talking to him in either language, but he always replied in English. I guess what I’m saying is that Mathilde’s behaviour in that concern seems entirely expected given her circumstances
  • ThepastykidThepastykid
    Posts: 553
    jobo wrote: »
    Thepastykid wrote: »
    Madeleine was based in London, so it is likely the child is bilingual, but speaks French at home. She can understand James just fine though

    Then again she watches Norwegian children's TV... So she's probably trilingual. (If that's a word).

    Was it Norwegian? Was it her or the young Madeleine watching The Wrong Trousers?
  • MalloryMallory
    edited October 2021 Posts: 2,165
    Thepastykid wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Thepastykid wrote: »
    Madeleine was based in London, so it is likely the child is bilingual, but speaks French at home. She can understand James just fine though

    Then again she watches Norwegian children's TV... So she's probably trilingual. (If that's a word).

    Was it Norwegian? Was it her or the young Madeleine watching The Wrong Trousers?

    Young Madeleine for The Wrong Trousers.

    Also it is somewhat amusing that the actor portraying Madeleine’s mother is Mathilde Bourbin.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    Thepastykid wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Thepastykid wrote: »
    Madeleine was based in London, so it is likely the child is bilingual, but speaks French at home. She can understand James just fine though

    Then again she watches Norwegian children's TV... So she's probably trilingual. (If that's a word).

    Was it Norwegian? Was it her or the young Madeleine watching The Wrong Trousers?

    Madeleine was watching W&G, Mathilde was watching "Fantorangen", a children's show on Norwegian television. If there was one thing I never expected to see in a Bond film... haha :P
  • PG007PG007
    Posts: 4
    Long time lurker here. Used to be on the forums way back before they changed it over.

    I've mixed feelings. The first time I was horrified by the ending. But the second viewing was much better. As many posters have said, the first hour is brilliant; then once it hits London it loses it's way a bit.

    Bit of a random question but does anyone know why Bond was using a phone simliar to a Nokia 3310 at the start of the film. It was supposed to be 2015 not 1995 :D
  • ThepastykidThepastykid
    edited October 2021 Posts: 553
    Possibly a burner phone - he did 'drop so far off the grid, we thought you were dead'
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    PG007 wrote: »
    Long time lurker here. Used to be on the forums way back before they changed it over.

    I've mixed feelings. The first time I was horrified by the ending. But the second viewing was much better. As many posters have said, the first hour is brilliant; then once it hits London it loses it's way a bit.

    Bit of a random question but does anyone know why Bond was using a phone simliar to a Nokia 3310 at the start of the film. It was supposed to be 2015 not 1995 :D

    I believe Fleming wrote something about Bond being a purist, preferring old Nokias to the modern Samsungs. ;)
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    PG007 wrote: »
    Long time lurker here. Used to be on the forums way back before they changed it over.

    I've mixed feelings. The first time I was horrified by the ending. But the second viewing was much better. As many posters have said, the first hour is brilliant; then once it hits London it loses it's way a bit.

    Bit of a random question but does anyone know why Bond was using a phone simliar to a Nokia 3310 at the start of the film. It was supposed to be 2015 not 1995 :D

    He is off the grid and he is an old school guy and most importantly Nokia wanted to promote their non-smartphone range ^^. Madeleine also uses one of their "feature phones" in the PTS...
  • PG007PG007
    Posts: 4
    jobo wrote: »
    PG007 wrote: »
    Long time lurker here. Used to be on the forums way back before they changed it over.

    I've mixed feelings. The first time I was horrified by the ending. But the second viewing was much better. As many posters have said, the first hour is brilliant; then once it hits London it loses it's way a bit.

    Bit of a random question but does anyone know why Bond was using a phone simliar to a Nokia 3310 at the start of the film. It was supposed to be 2015 not 1995 :D

    I believe Fleming wrote something about Bond being a purist, preferring old Nokias to the modern Samsungs. ;)
    ImpertinentGoon wrote: »
    PG007 wrote: »
    Long time lurker here. Used to be on the forums way back before they changed it over.

    I've mixed feelings. The first time I was horrified by the ending. But the second viewing was much better. As many posters have said, the first hour is brilliant; then once it hits London it loses it's way a bit.

    Bit of a random question but does anyone know why Bond was using a phone simliar to a Nokia 3310 at the start of the film. It was supposed to be 2015 not 1995 :D

    He is off the grid and he is an old school guy and most importantly Nokia wanted to promote their non-smartphone range ^^. Madeleine also uses one of their "feature phones" in the PTS...


    Haha thanks everyone :)
  • TheQueensPeaceTheQueensPeace That's Classified
    Posts: 74
    genuinely surprised by the lack of collective mourning and shock and the sympathy deficit for those touched by it all. Yes, it is fiction. Yes, they can reboot. But the timing, symbolism and tonal irregularity it creates in the sacrosanct craig era now? baffling. I am genuinely in shock, even though i need a kick in the arse for that.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Thank God there was no cloning in NTTD, the nanobots and bionic eye was enough to digest. Cloning would have been a step too far

    @TheQueensPeace I'm still shocked mate, struggling to process it but what outweighs that for me is how conclusive it is and how the producers didn't think the ending may overshadow the overall feeling towards the film
  • thetruththetruth
    Posts: 28
    TheQueensPeace wrote: »
    genuinely surprised by the lack of collective mourning and shock and the sympathy deficit for those touched by it all. Yes, it is fiction. Yes, they can reboot. But the timing, symbolism and tonal irregularity it creates in the sacrosanct craig era now? baffling. I am genuinely in shock, even though i need a kick in the arse for that.

    Totally agree. I'm still shocked/upset and angry about it. To an extent that has surprised me. All my life watching and enjoying Bond, with the conviction/knowledge that one of the major things making him unique was that he'd always find a way out. Almost 60 years of Bond films and he's just been killed. It just seems really callous and unnecessary. They should have stopped after Spectre and let him find some happiness.
  • TheQueensPeaceTheQueensPeace That's Classified
    edited October 2021 Posts: 74
    Thanks, Jordo. Thanks, thetruth.
    Look: there is a very divisive tone on here at the moment and a lack of tolerance of the passion that binds us: Bond!

    So thanks for being kind.
    We all love this series, this character or why else be here?
    None of us has the definitive take. None has a hot line to EON and nobody gets points for sycophancy anymore than they do hating the film.

    I will reiterate: had Daniel's Bond died in Quantum of Solace? Ok. Even Casino! But the fact is Casino Royale WAS meant yes as hard reboot but NOT necessarily the start of an 'arc'. At its end, the experiment was done and Bond was Bond, having explained why he is why he is, he could just 'be', with or without Craig.

    Skyfall, though I adore it, muddied those waters by beginning us on a course to resume the fun and it was self contained, too. End it there: Craig and if need be, yes, the series. When he is on that rooftop at the end, amidst a sea of union jacks: anything was possible from there on and showing what came 'next' is arguably the mistake they made, much as I get why everyone wanted more after a billion dollar gross! But in 2012: the world felt better, so did the UK, and so did Bond. Now? all 3 feel a bit weaker, in parallel. So the new film has failed me.

    And SPECTRE + NTTD really just feel tonally illiterate and the death therefore, to my mind, anyway, at odds with BOTH the Craig take AND the series ethos of yes, be bold and thrilling and even dark on occasion, but no actor or era, let alone 007 itself, gets definitive 'end'.
  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »

    You were talking about how upsetting it was that EON decided to make a Bond film that gave audiences a downer ending.

    They did that with OHMSS and now with NTTD.

    And that was obviously intentional because in the official podcasts MGW brought up how Cubby always felt OHMSS was an important film in the series. So they definitely had that in mind when making NTTD in terms of how audiences will react to an emotional ending.
    I recall Peter Hunt talking about the end of OHMSS and pointing out their original intention was to close the movie on the big wedding and have DAF start with Tracy's death in the PTS. It was only when Lazenby announced he would no longer be playing Bond that they were forced to include Tracy's death in the final cut of OHMSS.
  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    If the last few seconds of seeing the missiles falling were removed from the film leaving a slight question mark over Bond’s survival would that make a difference? For me it would. Too late I know but leaving us with even 0.01% hope would have been better than none.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited October 2021 Posts: 25,108
    How awesome was Paloma, easily one of the most likeable screen characters I have seen in some time.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    Belinus wrote: »
    If the last few seconds of seeing the missiles falling were removed from the film leaving a slight question mark over Bond’s survival would that make a difference? For me it would. Too late I know but leaving us with even 0.01% hope would have been better than none.

    The only point I can make in response to this is that I think the filmmakers want to let you sit with the emotions that come from seeing a childhood hero die. I understand that some people hate that (I don't), but I think it is pretty clear that is what they wanted. They could have pulled that punch and they didn't.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited October 2021 Posts: 693
    For the people saying that this is how Craig's tenure had to end, it was all leading to this, etc., are you actually being honest or are you just trying to justify the ending post-hoc? After which previous Craig entry did you say to yourself, "They'll definitely kill off this Bond" or, "this Bond is going to end tragically, there's no other option for him?" Because I simply don't believe that. I seriously doubt that anyone was actually thinking that this is how they'd end Craig's tenure.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited October 2021 Posts: 5,970
    slide_99 wrote: »
    For the people saying that this is how Craig's tenure had to end, it was all leading to this, etc., are you actually being honest? After which previous Craig entry did you say to yourself, "They'll definitely kill off this Bond" or, "this Bond is going to end tragically, there's no other option for him?" Because I simply don't believe that. I don't think anyone was thinking that. I think you're just trying to justify the ending post-hoc.
    I'm not saying they had to end it this way @slide_99, but what I've been saying is that it's an ending that I feel fits in with his arc. Of course, this arc wasn't planned, but when you look at the ideas Casino Royale introduced about the character of Bond to then what was explored as his era went on, it makes sense that No Time To Die did what it did - in my opinion.
  • thetruththetruth
    Posts: 28
    ImpertinentGoon wrote: »
    Belinus wrote: »
    I think the filmmakers want to let you sit with the emotions that come from seeing a childhood hero die. I understand that some people hate that (I don't), but I think it is pretty clear that is what they wanted. They could have pulled that punch and they didn't.

    Yes. I think that is what makes many people feel angry.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    How awesome was Paloma, easily one of the most likeable screen characters I have seen in some time.

    Absolutely!! Thankfully Cary added her into the script last minute. Ana De Armas is a star in the making
  • PG007PG007
    Posts: 4
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    I didn’t imagine it did I, Bond refers to Madeline and Mathilda as ‘family’, but the word was muted.

    I noticed this too on my second viewing. Not sure why this was edited out :/

  • BelinusBelinus Scotland
    Posts: 48
    slide_99 wrote: »
    For the people saying that this is how Craig's tenure had to end, it was all leading to this, etc., are you actually being honest or are you just trying to justify the ending post-hoc? After which previous Craig entry did you say to yourself, "They'll definitely kill off this Bond" or, "this Bond is going to end tragically, there's no other option for him?" Because I simply don't believe that. I seriously doubt that anyone was actually thinking that this is how they'd end Craig's tenure.

    I agree. If the plan was always to kill off the DC Bond then they should have done it with SP, not because it makes sense but because at the end of SP it didn’t look as though DC would return for another film
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    PG007 wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    I didn’t imagine it did I, Bond refers to Madeline and Mathilda as ‘family’, but the word was muted.

    I noticed this too on my second viewing. Not sure why this was edited out :/

    It's strange, because in the German dub it is very clearly audible that he says "Familie"/family and it actually got a bit of a laugh in the theatre because he says it with a very incredulous facial expression. I couldn't hear him say anything, when I watched it again in the original English, which I find weird. Maybe somebody who has seen the film in another language can chime in? It seems like it is in the script and Craig clearly said it, but they decided to change it in post, but didn't tell the voice over houses producing the alternate language versions? Strange.
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