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NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,401
    When I left SP for the first time I loved it. The film pulled the wool over my eyes, and it wasn't until later that started to see flaws. No such luck with B25 - I knew straight away this one was a dud.
  • GetCarterGetCarter
    Posts: 386
    Spectre has some rewatchable scenes at least. The Spectre meeting in Rome, for example.

    Here they actually reheat that scene in Cuba and I ain’t buyin’ it. The action here is cartoonish and the villains remind me of the goofy goons from that bar in TWINE where everyone is carrying.

    Also, great point on this thread about the last act. They could’ve gone with a YOLT or TSWLM platoon assault on Safin’s hideout but in the end it’s an interminable slog.

    So many disappointing aspects to NTTD.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,401
    GetCarter wrote: »

    Also, great point on this thread about the last act. They could’ve gone with a YOLT or TSWLM platoon assault on Safin’s hideout but in the end it’s an interminable slog.

    So many disappointing aspects to NTTD.

    The movie could have been saved by a truly epic finale. The era started with two guys having a fight in a bathroom, imagine, to send off Craig, they just went all out with balls to the wall action, Bond theme blaring...

    Even OHMSS had a base assault...
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    edited November 2021 Posts: 4,247
    I wonder if The Nephew's "007 is gonna die" song in 2010 inspired EON to end NTTD in that fashion.
  • DoubleOhDaltonDoubleOhDalton
    Posts: 65


    Little edit I did.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    One little moment I love, is when Bond is fighting Logan Ash, when Bond steps back, stands up and looks at Logan Ash then throws himself at him. Like the gloves are off
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    In another few months no one will remember anything about NTTD beyond it being "the one where he dies at the end", except for diehard Craig fans who will defend it just like QoS and SP.
    The movie simply doesn't have anyway near the impact they were going for. They were so desperate for another OHMSS, that they killed off half the cast and the only death that had any weight to it was Felix. I cared more about felix dying than about Bond, how is that even possible? (And I'm not even as attached to Jeffery Wrights portrayal as most fans seem to be.)

    The story was all over the place after a certain point, like they couldn't just pick a plot and stick with it. It's one of the biggest cases of "too much s#@$ going on" I've seen in recently years. Nothing has any room to breathe or develop correctly. It's like they want to make big flashy statements, and don't care about how it's gonna impact the story, and then just forget about it and move on. The entire "Nomi is 007" feels like it was left in from an earlier draft, it doesn't DO ANYTHING in the story, and there's no resolution to it. I can think of so many examples of "rivals to allies" plotlines in other Bond films that were done so much better.

    Something I actually really enjoyed was the opening scene, because it felt a classic mystery thriller set up. But its just another pointless scene, in the end. Like, there's no reason we needed to see a flashback of Madeline as a child. They build it up like Madeline and Safin are gonna have this bond, the fact that he saved her, and his family was killed etc. But what does any of that mean for the story? Nothing, it just gets tossed aside like everything else. Madeline speaks to Safin exactly as she would if he was a complete stranger, so just like Bond and Blofeld relationship from the previous film, what was the point? I thought it would make an interesting dynamic that the Bond girl and villain have this connection, and safin keeps talking about it, even blofeld says "once you discover her secret it'll be the death of you". And then in the end, he's just another bad guy, and I like Rami Maleks performance a lot, the scene in the psych office might be my favourite scene in the movie. I just wished it went somewhere, ultimately.

    And nothing is worse than Blofelds death, I mean that was the worst moment I have seen in a cinema in 10 years at least. In almost 60 years we've never actually seen Blofeld die on screen before. Okay falling down the chimney came close, but still. And remember this is the guy who, just one film prior was the author of all of Bonds pain, everything was leading up to him, they were like brothers, bound together forev- oh, wait no, he just died offscreen whilst Bond has his back turned, moving right along I guess... like seriously, what the F was that?! Bonds arch nemesis and most iconic villain in the series dies, and its just like hes some minor stooge in a Roger Moore film or something. Pathetic really.

    Bond also acts really bizarrely out of character at a couple moments in this movie, just for plot convenience sake. Like when he randomly gets furious at blofeld and starts choking him, when the whole point of the ending to SP was finally letting go of his past. Like why would Blofeld being able to get under his skin now, it doesn't make any sense, but we need Bond to put the nanobots on him somehow, so...
    Also the moment when Bond decides to grovel at the feet of Safin and Safin doesn't realise that he's being played. Firstly, not even Bond from the books would do that, even as a ruse. The filmic Bond certainly wouldn't. And Craigs Bond absolutely, positively would not did that. Its so out of leftfield. And Safin reveals himself to be an idiot for letting the guy sitting across from him to put his hands hidden under his body without being remotely suspicious.
    It's clear from Craig performance that he no longer cares about the consistency of the character he's playing. Which is not to say he isn't putting effort in, and enjoying himself in the role. I think Craig is have a wail of the time in this film, and he gets a lot more Bondian one liners to work with (which is a massive bonus), but from CR to SF he played his Bond more or less the same and you could tell he was careful to keep it consistent across the continuity, like it was one story. Then in SP he let his hair down a bit more, and now he's just full blown going with the flow. Like the character he created at the beginning is a distant ghost at this point. The Craig from CR would never make a "cats come with hair nowadays" joke, and I think even in SF he would have questioned that line, but by now he's just on a "just give me the lines and I'll say them" type beat.

    Weird complaint to make, but all of the action in this was just average. There really wasn't much tension in a lot of the chases, tbh. Not bad, just nothing standout or spectacular. Some of the scenery is nice, but that's kinda expected with Bond and the final base assault was straight up lame. I loved that plane sub thing they flew that was classic Bond coolness, but why does every Craig film end with just one or two people running around a facility and taking out everyone one by one? Seriously they just did this in the last film and it the most boring sequence ever, why do they keep doing it??? What is so exciting and epic about Bond running around an empty cavernous room and picking off targets like a training simulator. Over the course of 5 films they have reinstated virtually every single trope in Bonds library, except for the classic ending of two sides waging battle. And this was the perfect opportunity, they had a end of world scenario set up, a big elaborate villains base on a remote island with gangways and pools of toxic water. IT WAS PERFECT!!! Did they run out of budget or something? How cool would it have been to have like 20 troops drop in and act as a distraction whilst Bond and nomi make their way to the production centre and plant the mines?

    Anyway, I only saw the movie yesterday for the first time, so I'm probably missing stuff. Performance were good all around, Craig actually manages to pull off "breezy" in some parts which is neat. Ralph and Ben are good, but don't get much especially ben which is a really disappointment considering he carried SP. Moneypenny is barely in it. Nomi is surprising tolerable, Lea knocks it out of the park considering she has to do so much of the heavy lifting for a clunky script. Safin would be seriously underrated if he character amounted to anything, but he's still menacing and creepy regardless. I wanted more of him, honestly. Paloma was a breathe of fresh air and a throwback to classic Bond girls of old, she rocked. Overall I give it 4/10.

    Apart from introducing Safin, and Madeleine witnessing the traumatic murder of her mother? And her relation zu Safin? Which was hinted at in SP?
  • UnivexUnivex
    edited November 2021 Posts: 6,709
    For the most part, I find myself agreeing with @Mendes4Lyfe :P
    Can't help it. It's just the truth.

    Damn it. I really want to like this film :((
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited November 2021 Posts: 1,261
    Univex wrote: »
    For the most part, I find myself agreeing with @Mendes4Lyfe :P
    Can't help it. It's just the truth.

    Damn it. I really want to like this film :((

    It's your opinion. But it is NOT the truth. Taste is something individual.
  • MrsAuralSectsMrsAuralSects
    Posts: 214
    The 4/10 review.....yawn
  • BirdlesonBirdleson
    Posts: 2,161
    MrsAuralSects wrote: »
    The 4/10 review.....yawn

    Like everything you write is so captivating? No need to be rude just because you disagree.
  • MrsAuralSectsMrsAuralSects
    edited November 2021 Posts: 214
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Like everything you write is so captivating? No need to be rude just because you disagree.

    Try heeding your own advice, as worthless as it was.

  • StamperStamper
    Posts: 387
    No trying to slam anyone, but I've got a feeling this is how it goes for James Bond with some fans:

    Fans - "We are tired of single mission and detached Bond character, we wish EON did something more like OHMSS for a change! No more Moore style! Get Bond back to earth and reality!"

    EON does OHMSS again with CR, QOS, Skyfall.

    Fans - "We're tired of exploring the layers of the character, bring back single missions and carefree Bond Moore style who make quips and get out of situations with a single blow! Put Bond into space like SW!"

    EON does SPECTRE where Bond doesn't get hurt, recover from torture in 5 seconds, shoot all the bad guys like in a videogame and make quips.

    Fans - "That Moore stuff doesn't work! Bring back CR!"

    EON makes NTTD.

    Fans - "Where are the quips and the single missions and the carefree Bond who gets out of impossible situations with a somersault?"

    Etc. Etc.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson
    edited November 2021 Posts: 2,161
    MrsAuralSects wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Like everything you write is so captivating? No need to be rude just because you disagree.

    Try heeding your own advice, as worthless as it was.

    You are not going to be lasting here too much longer with that attitude.
  • MrsAuralSectsMrsAuralSects
    Posts: 214
    Please go away Birdleson. Thank you
  • BirdlesonBirdleson
    Posts: 2,161
    Nice.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    MrsAuralSects wrote: »
    The 4/10 review.....yawn
    MrsAuralSects wrote: »
    Please go away Birdleson. Thank you

    @MrsAuralSects, please understand that @Birdleson's evaluation of NTTD is his own and does not necessitate any bitterness from you. If you disagree, you can always submit counterarguments, but you will do so respectfully. "Yawn" and "Please go away"...? Birdleson is not a troll; he deserves better.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson
    Posts: 2,161
    Thank you @DarthDimi , and it wasn't even my review. Just looking for civility.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,401
    Thank you @Birdleson @DarthDimi
  • MrsAuralSectsMrsAuralSects
    Posts: 214
    DarthDimi wrote: »

    @MrsAuralSects, please understand that @Birdleson's evaluation of NTTD is his own and does not necessitate any bitterness from you. If you disagree, you can always submit counterarguments, but you will do so respectfully.

    His responses to me were less than respectful....something not pointed out.

    Too bad this forum doesn't seem to have a block or ignore feature.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 7,553
    @Mendes4Lyfe I loved the film so I don't agree with many of your points, but I'm with you 100% on Blofeld's death. My least favourite part of the film for the reasons you outline.
    Great writeup, too, it's always nice to read thoughts that don't mirror your own.

    Please don't go away @Birdleson!
  • SignedByRogerMooreSignedByRogerMoore
    Posts: 30
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    In another few months no one will remember anything about NTTD beyond it being "the one where he dies at the end", except for diehard Craig fans who will defend it just like QoS and SP.
    The movie simply doesn't have anyway near the impact they were going for. They were so desperate for another OHMSS, that they killed off half the cast and the only death that had any weight to it was Felix. I cared more about felix dying than about Bond, how is that even possible? (And I'm not even as attached to Jeffery Wrights portrayal as most fans seem to be.)

    The story was all over the place after a certain point, like they couldn't just pick a plot and stick with it. It's one of the biggest cases of "too much s#@$ going on" I've seen in recently years. Nothing has any room to breathe or develop correctly. It's like they want to make big flashy statements, and don't care about how it's gonna impact the story, and then just forget about it and move on. The entire "Nomi is 007" feels like it was left in from an earlier draft, it doesn't DO ANYTHING in the story, and there's no resolution to it. I can think of so many examples of "rivals to allies" plotlines in other Bond films that were done so much better.

    Something I actually really enjoyed was the opening scene, because it felt a classic mystery thriller set up. But its just another pointless scene, in the end. Like, there's no reason we needed to see a flashback of Madeline as a child. They build it up like Madeline and Safin are gonna have this bond, the fact that he saved her, and his family was killed etc. But what does any of that mean for the story? Nothing, it just gets tossed aside like everything else. Madeline speaks to Safin exactly as she would if he was a complete stranger, so just like Bond and Blofeld relationship from the previous film, what was the point? I thought it would make an interesting dynamic that the Bond girl and villain have this connection, and safin keeps talking about it, even blofeld says "once you discover her secret it'll be the death of you". And then in the end, he's just another bad guy, and I like Rami Maleks performance a lot, the scene in the psych office might be my favourite scene in the movie. I just wished it went somewhere, ultimately.

    And nothing is worse than Blofelds death, I mean that was the worst moment I have seen in a cinema in 10 years at least. In almost 60 years we've never actually seen Blofeld die on screen before. Okay falling down the chimney came close, but still. And remember this is the guy who, just one film prior was the author of all of Bonds pain, everything was leading up to him, they were like brothers, bound together forev- oh, wait no, he just died offscreen whilst Bond has his back turned, moving right along I guess... like seriously, what the F was that?! Bonds arch nemesis and most iconic villain in the series dies, and its just like hes some minor stooge in a Roger Moore film or something. Pathetic really.

    Bond also acts really bizarrely out of character at a couple moments in this movie, just for plot convenience sake. Like when he randomly gets furious at blofeld and starts choking him, when the whole point of the ending to SP was finally letting go of his past. Like why would Blofeld being able to get under his skin now, it doesn't make any sense, but we need Bond to put the nanobots on him somehow, so...
    Also the moment when Bond decides to grovel at the feet of Safin and Safin doesn't realise that he's being played. Firstly, not even Bond from the books would do that, even as a ruse. The filmic Bond certainly wouldn't. And Craigs Bond absolutely, positively would not did that. Its so out of leftfield. And Safin reveals himself to be an idiot for letting the guy sitting across from him to put his hands hidden under his body without being remotely suspicious.
    It's clear from Craig performance that he no longer cares about the consistency of the character he's playing. Which is not to say he isn't putting effort in, and enjoying himself in the role. I think Craig is have a wail of the time in this film, and he gets a lot more Bondian one liners to work with (which is a massive bonus), but from CR to SF he played his Bond more or less the same and you could tell he was careful to keep it consistent across the continuity, like it was one story. Then in SP he let his hair down a bit more, and now he's just full blown going with the flow. Like the character he created at the beginning is a distant ghost at this point. The Craig from CR would never make a "cats come with hair nowadays" joke, and I think even in SF he would have questioned that line, but by now he's just on a "just give me the lines and I'll say them" type beat.

    Weird complaint to make, but all of the action in this was just average. There really wasn't much tension in a lot of the chases, tbh. Not bad, just nothing standout or spectacular. Some of the scenery is nice, but that's kinda expected with Bond and the final base assault was straight up lame. I loved that plane sub thing they flew that was classic Bond coolness, but why does every Craig film end with just one or two people running around a facility and taking out everyone one by one? Seriously they just did this in the last film and it the most boring sequence ever, why do they keep doing it??? What is so exciting and epic about Bond running around an empty cavernous room and picking off targets like a training simulator. Over the course of 5 films they have reinstated virtually every single trope in Bonds library, except for the classic ending of two sides waging battle. And this was the perfect opportunity, they had a end of world scenario set up, a big elaborate villains base on a remote island with gangways and pools of toxic water. IT WAS PERFECT!!! Did they run out of budget or something? How cool would it have been to have like 20 troops drop in and act as a distraction whilst Bond and nomi make their way to the production centre and plant the mines?

    Anyway, I only saw the movie yesterday for the first time, so I'm probably missing stuff. Performance were good all around, Craig actually manages to pull off "breezy" in some parts which is neat. Ralph and Ben are good, but don't get much especially ben which is a really disappointment considering he carried SP. Moneypenny is barely in it. Nomi is surprising tolerable, Lea knocks it out of the park considering she has to do so much of the heavy lifting for a clunky script. Safin would be seriously underrated if he character amounted to anything, but he's still menacing and creepy regardless. I wanted more of him, honestly. Paloma was a breathe of fresh air and a throwback to classic Bond girls of old, she rocked. Overall I give it 4/10.

    This is a fair and honest review.

    Craig Fans seem intolerant to the fact not every Bond fan likes his portrayal of Bond or his movies.

    Diversity of opinion and all that 😉
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 7,553
    SignedByRogerMoore wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    In another few months no one will remember anything about NTTD beyond it being "the one where he dies at the end", except for diehard Craig fans who will defend it just like QoS and SP.
    The movie simply doesn't have anyway near the impact they were going for. They were so desperate for another OHMSS, that they killed off half the cast and the only death that had any weight to it was Felix. I cared more about felix dying than about Bond, how is that even possible? (And I'm not even as attached to Jeffery Wrights portrayal as most fans seem to be.)

    The story was all over the place after a certain point, like they couldn't just pick a plot and stick with it. It's one of the biggest cases of "too much s#@$ going on" I've seen in recently years. Nothing has any room to breathe or develop correctly. It's like they want to make big flashy statements, and don't care about how it's gonna impact the story, and then just forget about it and move on. The entire "Nomi is 007" feels like it was left in from an earlier draft, it doesn't DO ANYTHING in the story, and there's no resolution to it. I can think of so many examples of "rivals to allies" plotlines in other Bond films that were done so much better.

    Something I actually really enjoyed was the opening scene, because it felt a classic mystery thriller set up. But its just another pointless scene, in the end. Like, there's no reason we needed to see a flashback of Madeline as a child. They build it up like Madeline and Safin are gonna have this bond, the fact that he saved her, and his family was killed etc. But what does any of that mean for the story? Nothing, it just gets tossed aside like everything else. Madeline speaks to Safin exactly as she would if he was a complete stranger, so just like Bond and Blofeld relationship from the previous film, what was the point? I thought it would make an interesting dynamic that the Bond girl and villain have this connection, and safin keeps talking about it, even blofeld says "once you discover her secret it'll be the death of you". And then in the end, he's just another bad guy, and I like Rami Maleks performance a lot, the scene in the psych office might be my favourite scene in the movie. I just wished it went somewhere, ultimately.

    And nothing is worse than Blofelds death, I mean that was the worst moment I have seen in a cinema in 10 years at least. In almost 60 years we've never actually seen Blofeld die on screen before. Okay falling down the chimney came close, but still. And remember this is the guy who, just one film prior was the author of all of Bonds pain, everything was leading up to him, they were like brothers, bound together forev- oh, wait no, he just died offscreen whilst Bond has his back turned, moving right along I guess... like seriously, what the F was that?! Bonds arch nemesis and most iconic villain in the series dies, and its just like hes some minor stooge in a Roger Moore film or something. Pathetic really.

    Bond also acts really bizarrely out of character at a couple moments in this movie, just for plot convenience sake. Like when he randomly gets furious at blofeld and starts choking him, when the whole point of the ending to SP was finally letting go of his past. Like why would Blofeld being able to get under his skin now, it doesn't make any sense, but we need Bond to put the nanobots on him somehow, so...
    Also the moment when Bond decides to grovel at the feet of Safin and Safin doesn't realise that he's being played. Firstly, not even Bond from the books would do that, even as a ruse. The filmic Bond certainly wouldn't. And Craigs Bond absolutely, positively would not did that. Its so out of leftfield. And Safin reveals himself to be an idiot for letting the guy sitting across from him to put his hands hidden under his body without being remotely suspicious.
    It's clear from Craig performance that he no longer cares about the consistency of the character he's playing. Which is not to say he isn't putting effort in, and enjoying himself in the role. I think Craig is have a wail of the time in this film, and he gets a lot more Bondian one liners to work with (which is a massive bonus), but from CR to SF he played his Bond more or less the same and you could tell he was careful to keep it consistent across the continuity, like it was one story. Then in SP he let his hair down a bit more, and now he's just full blown going with the flow. Like the character he created at the beginning is a distant ghost at this point. The Craig from CR would never make a "cats come with hair nowadays" joke, and I think even in SF he would have questioned that line, but by now he's just on a "just give me the lines and I'll say them" type beat.

    Weird complaint to make, but all of the action in this was just average. There really wasn't much tension in a lot of the chases, tbh. Not bad, just nothing standout or spectacular. Some of the scenery is nice, but that's kinda expected with Bond and the final base assault was straight up lame. I loved that plane sub thing they flew that was classic Bond coolness, but why does every Craig film end with just one or two people running around a facility and taking out everyone one by one? Seriously they just did this in the last film and it the most boring sequence ever, why do they keep doing it??? What is so exciting and epic about Bond running around an empty cavernous room and picking off targets like a training simulator. Over the course of 5 films they have reinstated virtually every single trope in Bonds library, except for the classic ending of two sides waging battle. And this was the perfect opportunity, they had a end of world scenario set up, a big elaborate villains base on a remote island with gangways and pools of toxic water. IT WAS PERFECT!!! Did they run out of budget or something? How cool would it have been to have like 20 troops drop in and act as a distraction whilst Bond and nomi make their way to the production centre and plant the mines?

    Anyway, I only saw the movie yesterday for the first time, so I'm probably missing stuff. Performance were good all around, Craig actually manages to pull off "breezy" in some parts which is neat. Ralph and Ben are good, but don't get much especially ben which is a really disappointment considering he carried SP. Moneypenny is barely in it. Nomi is surprising tolerable, Lea knocks it out of the park considering she has to do so much of the heavy lifting for a clunky script. Safin would be seriously underrated if he character amounted to anything, but he's still menacing and creepy regardless. I wanted more of him, honestly. Paloma was a breathe of fresh air and a throwback to classic Bond girls of old, she rocked. Overall I give it 4/10.

    This is a fair and honest review.

    Craig Fans seem intolerant to the fact not every Bond fan likes his portrayal of Bond or his movies.

    Diversity of opinion and all that 😉

    Even this comment is divisive. "Craig Fans" versus, what, "Reasonable People"? Craig Bond fans such as myself can find value in negative reviews, just as people who don't like Craig's portrayal or his films could find value in positive reviews.

    We're all meant to be Bond fans, all on the same team!
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,401
    Wow thanks guys, appreciate it! ;)
    @SignedByRogerMoore @NickTwentyTwo
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    DoubleOhDalton wrote: »


    Little edit I did.

    I'm sad this darling fanedit got lost in the scuffle of internet drama. Great work, @DoubleOhDalton! I always felt this song was rather good for what amounted to a practical joke by Boy George.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,553
    Minion wrote: »
    DoubleOhDalton wrote: »


    Little edit I did.

    I'm sad this darling fanedit got lost in the scuffle of internet drama. Great work, @DoubleOhDalton! I always felt this song was rather good for what amounted to a practical joke by Boy George.

    What the hell, this is incredible. When did this song come out?
  • SignedByRogerMooreSignedByRogerMoore
    Posts: 30
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    SignedByRogerMoore wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    In another few months no one will remember anything about NTTD beyond it being "the one where he dies at the end", except for diehard Craig fans who will defend it just like QoS and SP.
    The movie simply doesn't have anyway near the impact they were going for. They were so desperate for another OHMSS, that they killed off half the cast and the only death that had any weight to it was Felix. I cared more about felix dying than about Bond, how is that even possible? (And I'm not even as attached to Jeffery Wrights portrayal as most fans seem to be.)

    The story was all over the place after a certain point, like they couldn't just pick a plot and stick with it. It's one of the biggest cases of "too much s#@$ going on" I've seen in recently years. Nothing has any room to breathe or develop correctly. It's like they want to make big flashy statements, and don't care about how it's gonna impact the story, and then just forget about it and move on. The entire "Nomi is 007" feels like it was left in from an earlier draft, it doesn't DO ANYTHING in the story, and there's no resolution to it. I can think of so many examples of "rivals to allies" plotlines in other Bond films that were done so much better.

    Something I actually really enjoyed was the opening scene, because it felt a classic mystery thriller set up. But its just another pointless scene, in the end. Like, there's no reason we needed to see a flashback of Madeline as a child. They build it up like Madeline and Safin are gonna have this bond, the fact that he saved her, and his family was killed etc. But what does any of that mean for the story? Nothing, it just gets tossed aside like everything else. Madeline speaks to Safin exactly as she would if he was a complete stranger, so just like Bond and Blofeld relationship from the previous film, what was the point? I thought it would make an interesting dynamic that the Bond girl and villain have this connection, and safin keeps talking about it, even blofeld says "once you discover her secret it'll be the death of you". And then in the end, he's just another bad guy, and I like Rami Maleks performance a lot, the scene in the psych office might be my favourite scene in the movie. I just wished it went somewhere, ultimately.

    And nothing is worse than Blofelds death, I mean that was the worst moment I have seen in a cinema in 10 years at least. In almost 60 years we've never actually seen Blofeld die on screen before. Okay falling down the chimney came close, but still. And remember this is the guy who, just one film prior was the author of all of Bonds pain, everything was leading up to him, they were like brothers, bound together forev- oh, wait no, he just died offscreen whilst Bond has his back turned, moving right along I guess... like seriously, what the F was that?! Bonds arch nemesis and most iconic villain in the series dies, and its just like hes some minor stooge in a Roger Moore film or something. Pathetic really.

    Bond also acts really bizarrely out of character at a couple moments in this movie, just for plot convenience sake. Like when he randomly gets furious at blofeld and starts choking him, when the whole point of the ending to SP was finally letting go of his past. Like why would Blofeld being able to get under his skin now, it doesn't make any sense, but we need Bond to put the nanobots on him somehow, so...
    Also the moment when Bond decides to grovel at the feet of Safin and Safin doesn't realise that he's being played. Firstly, not even Bond from the books would do that, even as a ruse. The filmic Bond certainly wouldn't. And Craigs Bond absolutely, positively would not did that. Its so out of leftfield. And Safin reveals himself to be an idiot for letting the guy sitting across from him to put his hands hidden under his body without being remotely suspicious.
    It's clear from Craig performance that he no longer cares about the consistency of the character he's playing. Which is not to say he isn't putting effort in, and enjoying himself in the role. I think Craig is have a wail of the time in this film, and he gets a lot more Bondian one liners to work with (which is a massive bonus), but from CR to SF he played his Bond more or less the same and you could tell he was careful to keep it consistent across the continuity, like it was one story. Then in SP he let his hair down a bit more, and now he's just full blown going with the flow. Like the character he created at the beginning is a distant ghost at this point. The Craig from CR would never make a "cats come with hair nowadays" joke, and I think even in SF he would have questioned that line, but by now he's just on a "just give me the lines and I'll say them" type beat.

    Weird complaint to make, but all of the action in this was just average. There really wasn't much tension in a lot of the chases, tbh. Not bad, just nothing standout or spectacular. Some of the scenery is nice, but that's kinda expected with Bond and the final base assault was straight up lame. I loved that plane sub thing they flew that was classic Bond coolness, but why does every Craig film end with just one or two people running around a facility and taking out everyone one by one? Seriously they just did this in the last film and it the most boring sequence ever, why do they keep doing it??? What is so exciting and epic about Bond running around an empty cavernous room and picking off targets like a training simulator. Over the course of 5 films they have reinstated virtually every single trope in Bonds library, except for the classic ending of two sides waging battle. And this was the perfect opportunity, they had a end of world scenario set up, a big elaborate villains base on a remote island with gangways and pools of toxic water. IT WAS PERFECT!!! Did they run out of budget or something? How cool would it have been to have like 20 troops drop in and act as a distraction whilst Bond and nomi make their way to the production centre and plant the mines?

    Anyway, I only saw the movie yesterday for the first time, so I'm probably missing stuff. Performance were good all around, Craig actually manages to pull off "breezy" in some parts which is neat. Ralph and Ben are good, but don't get much especially ben which is a really disappointment considering he carried SP. Moneypenny is barely in it. Nomi is surprising tolerable, Lea knocks it out of the park considering she has to do so much of the heavy lifting for a clunky script. Safin would be seriously underrated if he character amounted to anything, but he's still menacing and creepy regardless. I wanted more of him, honestly. Paloma was a breathe of fresh air and a throwback to classic Bond girls of old, she rocked. Overall I give it 4/10.

    This is a fair and honest review.

    Craig Fans seem intolerant to the fact not every Bond fan likes his portrayal of Bond or his movies.

    Diversity of opinion and all that 😉

    Even this comment is divisive. "Craig Fans" versus, what, "Reasonable People"? Craig Bond fans such as myself can find value in negative reviews, just as people who don't like Craig's portrayal or his films could find value in positive reviews.

    We're all meant to be Bond fans, all on the same team!

    Not divisive at all - but thank you for proving my point nonetheless.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 7,553
    SignedByRogerMoore wrote: »
    NickTwentyTwo wrote: »
    SignedByRogerMoore wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    In another few months no one will remember anything about NTTD beyond it being "the one where he dies at the end", except for diehard Craig fans who will defend it just like QoS and SP.
    The movie simply doesn't have anyway near the impact they were going for. They were so desperate for another OHMSS, that they killed off half the cast and the only death that had any weight to it was Felix. I cared more about felix dying than about Bond, how is that even possible? (And I'm not even as attached to Jeffery Wrights portrayal as most fans seem to be.)

    The story was all over the place after a certain point, like they couldn't just pick a plot and stick with it. It's one of the biggest cases of "too much s#@$ going on" I've seen in recently years. Nothing has any room to breathe or develop correctly. It's like they want to make big flashy statements, and don't care about how it's gonna impact the story, and then just forget about it and move on. The entire "Nomi is 007" feels like it was left in from an earlier draft, it doesn't DO ANYTHING in the story, and there's no resolution to it. I can think of so many examples of "rivals to allies" plotlines in other Bond films that were done so much better.

    Something I actually really enjoyed was the opening scene, because it felt a classic mystery thriller set up. But its just another pointless scene, in the end. Like, there's no reason we needed to see a flashback of Madeline as a child. They build it up like Madeline and Safin are gonna have this bond, the fact that he saved her, and his family was killed etc. But what does any of that mean for the story? Nothing, it just gets tossed aside like everything else. Madeline speaks to Safin exactly as she would if he was a complete stranger, so just like Bond and Blofeld relationship from the previous film, what was the point? I thought it would make an interesting dynamic that the Bond girl and villain have this connection, and safin keeps talking about it, even blofeld says "once you discover her secret it'll be the death of you". And then in the end, he's just another bad guy, and I like Rami Maleks performance a lot, the scene in the psych office might be my favourite scene in the movie. I just wished it went somewhere, ultimately.

    And nothing is worse than Blofelds death, I mean that was the worst moment I have seen in a cinema in 10 years at least. In almost 60 years we've never actually seen Blofeld die on screen before. Okay falling down the chimney came close, but still. And remember this is the guy who, just one film prior was the author of all of Bonds pain, everything was leading up to him, they were like brothers, bound together forev- oh, wait no, he just died offscreen whilst Bond has his back turned, moving right along I guess... like seriously, what the F was that?! Bonds arch nemesis and most iconic villain in the series dies, and its just like hes some minor stooge in a Roger Moore film or something. Pathetic really.

    Bond also acts really bizarrely out of character at a couple moments in this movie, just for plot convenience sake. Like when he randomly gets furious at blofeld and starts choking him, when the whole point of the ending to SP was finally letting go of his past. Like why would Blofeld being able to get under his skin now, it doesn't make any sense, but we need Bond to put the nanobots on him somehow, so...
    Also the moment when Bond decides to grovel at the feet of Safin and Safin doesn't realise that he's being played. Firstly, not even Bond from the books would do that, even as a ruse. The filmic Bond certainly wouldn't. And Craigs Bond absolutely, positively would not did that. Its so out of leftfield. And Safin reveals himself to be an idiot for letting the guy sitting across from him to put his hands hidden under his body without being remotely suspicious.
    It's clear from Craig performance that he no longer cares about the consistency of the character he's playing. Which is not to say he isn't putting effort in, and enjoying himself in the role. I think Craig is have a wail of the time in this film, and he gets a lot more Bondian one liners to work with (which is a massive bonus), but from CR to SF he played his Bond more or less the same and you could tell he was careful to keep it consistent across the continuity, like it was one story. Then in SP he let his hair down a bit more, and now he's just full blown going with the flow. Like the character he created at the beginning is a distant ghost at this point. The Craig from CR would never make a "cats come with hair nowadays" joke, and I think even in SF he would have questioned that line, but by now he's just on a "just give me the lines and I'll say them" type beat.

    Weird complaint to make, but all of the action in this was just average. There really wasn't much tension in a lot of the chases, tbh. Not bad, just nothing standout or spectacular. Some of the scenery is nice, but that's kinda expected with Bond and the final base assault was straight up lame. I loved that plane sub thing they flew that was classic Bond coolness, but why does every Craig film end with just one or two people running around a facility and taking out everyone one by one? Seriously they just did this in the last film and it the most boring sequence ever, why do they keep doing it??? What is so exciting and epic about Bond running around an empty cavernous room and picking off targets like a training simulator. Over the course of 5 films they have reinstated virtually every single trope in Bonds library, except for the classic ending of two sides waging battle. And this was the perfect opportunity, they had a end of world scenario set up, a big elaborate villains base on a remote island with gangways and pools of toxic water. IT WAS PERFECT!!! Did they run out of budget or something? How cool would it have been to have like 20 troops drop in and act as a distraction whilst Bond and nomi make their way to the production centre and plant the mines?

    Anyway, I only saw the movie yesterday for the first time, so I'm probably missing stuff. Performance were good all around, Craig actually manages to pull off "breezy" in some parts which is neat. Ralph and Ben are good, but don't get much especially ben which is a really disappointment considering he carried SP. Moneypenny is barely in it. Nomi is surprising tolerable, Lea knocks it out of the park considering she has to do so much of the heavy lifting for a clunky script. Safin would be seriously underrated if he character amounted to anything, but he's still menacing and creepy regardless. I wanted more of him, honestly. Paloma was a breathe of fresh air and a throwback to classic Bond girls of old, she rocked. Overall I give it 4/10.

    This is a fair and honest review.

    Craig Fans seem intolerant to the fact not every Bond fan likes his portrayal of Bond or his movies.

    Diversity of opinion and all that 😉

    Even this comment is divisive. "Craig Fans" versus, what, "Reasonable People"? Craig Bond fans such as myself can find value in negative reviews, just as people who don't like Craig's portrayal or his films could find value in positive reviews.

    We're all meant to be Bond fans, all on the same team!

    Not divisive at all - but thank you for proving my point nonetheless.

    Can you clarify your point then? I'm a Craig Bond fan, and feel quite tolerant towards the fact that not every Bond fan likes his portrayal of Bond or his movies.

    I just told Mendes that, though I disagreed with his review, I thought it was great and we fully agreed on a particular point in the film.

    Somehow, even doing this is causing a problem in this thread...
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    @Mendes4Lyfe I think that was a great review, and well worth the read. Several of your points are spot on.
    I’ve seen the film twice now and I do enjoy it. But I agree with you on the films plot structure being shaky. Like they abandon it and then moving on to something new. I found the scene with Bond floating in the raft and then he’s back in London rather jarring. We don’t need to see him take the trip back, but it just felt odd for some reason.
    I think they’ve ended the Craig era in a way that hasn’t been done before. He arrived as Bond with a big impact. And leaves with a big impact. Killing Bond is a first, and a bold move. With a rebooted series it bookends Craig’s films well.
    We’ve not seen Indiana Jones die.
    Ethan Hunt is still with us.
    Jason Bourne survived.
    But James Bond has saved the world one last time and died in the process.
    Only for James Bond will return.
    I don’t mind that they have. But I hope it doesn’t become the new normal.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited November 2021 Posts: 1,261
    Maybe some people should realize, that this is DISCUSSION FORUM, not a battle between those people, who think, that their opinion is the sole truth, and it is not about WINNING a competition, whether NTTD is a good or a poor movie. And please don't get back about who is a real Bond fan, and who is not. The funny thing is, that the people, who dislike NTTD (they are entitled to have their own opinion) attack the people, who like it PLUS the ending, not to be "real Bond fans". We all like Bond movies, or at least I assume that we/they do. This is getting tiresome. And to attack people, who have another opinion, is rather ... well ... NickTwentyTwo actually summed it up.
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