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Which films have received the biggest reappraisal since release?
M16_Cart
Craig fanboy?
This thread is NOT about our personal individual opinions of the film. But moreso the overall consensus from audiences and critics when the movie came out, vs. how many people view the films now.
If there are any hardcore Bond fans that want to do a write-up on every film's reputation on release vs. now, I'm game for it. I'm only 30; I wasn't around for most of the film releases.
Which films got more praise as time went on? Which got less praise?
More Praise
OHMSS and License to Kill were examples of 2 films that were seen as the black sheep of the series at the time, but are now considered to be some of the better films; and a sizeable portion of Bond fans consider OHMSS a classic.
Less Praise
Never Say Never Again. In 1983, Connery returning was such a historic event to the point where critics were willing to overlook the films flaws. But people watching it on dvd or streaming services now will just see a mediocre film.
If there are any hardcore Bond fans that want to do a write-up on every film's reputation on release vs. now, I'm game for it. I'm only 30; I wasn't around for most of the film releases.
Which films got more praise as time went on? Which got less praise?
More Praise
OHMSS and License to Kill were examples of 2 films that were seen as the black sheep of the series at the time, but are now considered to be some of the better films; and a sizeable portion of Bond fans consider OHMSS a classic.
Less Praise
Never Say Never Again. In 1983, Connery returning was such a historic event to the point where critics were willing to overlook the films flaws. But people watching it on dvd or streaming services now will just see a mediocre film.
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Comments
A good barometer of eighties attitudes is Raymond Benson's Bedside Companion. NSNA is praised highly, but the likes of Moonraker. . . oh dear!
QOS for instance is held in pretty high regard by Bond fans, at least if this site is anything to go by. Among wider audiences I think it will always be the ‘Bourne knock off shaky cam migraine edited’ lesser movie. I don’t think that will change.
One thing I have noticed is a bit of a backlash against Skyfall. At first I thought it was hipsters / contrarians coming into pile on a much lauded movie, but it continues unabated and seems to be becoming more pronounced.
Among Bond fans the line is something along the lines of ‘doesn’t hold up to rewatches; action not that great; it was 50th nostagia & Deakins & Adele that blinded people to its faults”. More generally among the public, criticism is still some of the lazy old “Dark Knight / Home Alone rip off” shtick,
It’s hard to know if the consensus on the movie has changed or if it’s just that the people who are down on it like to say so and the majority who like it don’t feel the need to say so.
I think Moore’s movies have been positively reappraised in light of Brosnan’s tenure, and are given a lot more credit for what they did well and Brosnan’s movies maybe less well:
Humour that is naughty but also gentle, kind of innocent and totally unforced. E.g the ‘Attempting Re-entry” gag from Moonraker is made inadvertently by Q, whilst looking at another monitor. Compare that to the much more heavy handed and deliberate (in character) lines such as ‘Christmas only comes once a year’; ‘cunninglinguist’ and ‘pump her for information’ not to mention the Moneypenny masturbation from DAD.
The other area where I think people appreciate that Moore’s films shine is in the amazing, sense defying stunt work that peppers his films. DAD is known for a CGI stunt.
If you look at Rotten Tomatoes, a slew of Moore movies rank below DAD: AVTAK, OP, TMWTGG. I wouldn’t have thought that is the consensus now.
Wasn't this always a polarizing film though? Fans of the more serious Bond films hated it. But fans of Moore and the humor enjoyed. Nonetheless, it sold very well and was remembered for its villains, gadgets and lair. It left a mark.
On Rotten Tomatoes, the critics rated significantly higher than the general audience.
I think this film is getting reappraised by core Bond fans. But amongst the general public, it's not really talked about much.
The difference between MR vs OP. Octopussy came late in Moore's career. Moore's earlier films left their mark on the franchise. But 6-7 films in, there's inertia in public interest.
It's kind of like when a band or musician releases an album decades into their career. Even if it's good, it usually doesn't get nearly as much press as their older material.
Are they claiming that it's subpar or just that it's good but overrated? Maybe there are people who feel like this film is in the top 12 instead of the top 5, but still enjoy it.
A bit of both probably, but more so the later - they don’t think it deserves the elevated and lofty heights in which it is perceived to reside
And maybe NTTD will only solidify OHMSS’s place in the firmament, given that the producers have gone all out to pay homage to it whilst reimagining it
I think at least in DAD Brosnan gives his best performance - he’s the best thing about that film IMO. I feel that in previous movies he struggled a bit with the tonal shifts between the ‘pained emo it’s personal’ vibe and the lighter Mooresque elements. Here I thought it worked dramatically thanks to Brosnan. Pity about the rest of the movie…
In terms of reassessment, I’m sure the similarly outlandish Moonraker has benefited from comparisons to DAD
There are people who feel like it's the worst thing that ever happened to the series. But I'm sure there are also people who feel like its a decent average silly big-budget action movie, that may not have the most original plot, but has entertaining moments.
Surprisingly, critics on Rotten Tomatoes rate is somewhat higher than audiences; and it's not in the bottom 5 films.
But if you asked those same critics now, a lot of them would probably label it the nadir
They're comparing them to other films of that year. Or maybe based on the standards they have at that particular time.
It could also be different publications reviewing different films. Or within the same publication, a different critic reviewing the film.
I think mostly that’s the case, but often the most recent Bond film will also be used as a point of reference for comparison. So QOS was poorly compared against both Bourne and against CR. Similarly, Spectre’s muted critical response was partly a result of holding it up against MI: Rogue Nation and as it being seen as an anaemic follow up to Skyfall
Casino Royale on the other hand side was seen as washing away the stink of DAD, as well as being favourably compared to other ‘reboot’ movies like Batman Begins
But I think you’re right about how it is seem now. People talk about the first three of Connery movies as the ones to live up to. Thunderball almost gets forgotten. It’s the one between the holy trinity and the epic but flawed YOLT
I've definitely thought this before, as well, and have in the past watched TB to try and figure it out, so it's possible there's just some disconnect there for me. I may never like TB. :'(
I simply love the vibe of the movie, hanging out with Bond. And Connery just is Bond in this movie. I easily find it his most captivating and comfortable performance in the role and it is sheer heaven to watch
Yeah, Thunderball was a massive hit; a Skyfall of its time. It was when Bond went big-budget. If Goldfinger set the blueprint for the series' plots, then Thunderball set the blueprint for the series' action and over-the-topness.
I'm sure the gadgets, action and underwater scenes of TB were seen as high-tech for its time, but are kind of commonplace by today's standards. So that novelty factor isn't there anymore. And there's a segment of Bond fans who prefer the more grounded nature of the earlier films.
The more human moments of TB are what I remember fondly (i.e. the dialogue, characters, some of the quieter scenes). Art ages better than technology does.
In recent years, I've seen Thunderball all over the place in people's lists (all the way from classic, good, average and meh) with the common criticism being the underwater scenes and the length.
I can't think of any Bond who has ever been cooler than Connery in TB.
“would you mind giving me something to put on?”
Possibly Bond’s coolest moment ever
1. Skyfall
2. Tomorrow Never Dies
3. Die Another Day
4. The World Is Not Enough
5. Casino Royale
6. Quantum Of Solace
7. No Time To Die
8. Spectre
Both SF and DAD are over rated promoted. Tomorrow Never Dies second because of cameo of Daphne Deckers and Titanic was delayd till 08 January 1998. In 2002 DAD was delayd for month and 4 days till 09 January 2003. It is only Bond movie i have seen on release date and bought dvd also on release date of 7 May 2003 who was not delayd.
With Skyfall and Spectre and now NTTD the count of views go from a million to views to 1,5 - 2 million. NTTD almoost beats Spectre 22 million at Dutch boxoffice. $21,052,910 after 007 weaks (30 September - 14 November). 4 million before it beats Skyfall 25 million. Next step will The Lion King 2019 33 million. Ticket cost € 11,50 or € 14,50 those days minimal. € 2,50 more fore 3D.
QOS end second in 2008 after Mamma Mia. Madagascar 2 end 3th place. The Kite Runner wins from TDK. TDK promotion crossing or atleast same level as DAD.
Goldeneye was my first Bond movie in cinema. I remember it take 11 - 12 months before movie was released as 2 VHS in late 1996 and till March 1998 before it get his Dutch tv premiere. Back then it very normal it takes more then 14 months before movie be avaible to rental or buy on Vhs. Mission Impossible who i have seen in cinema takes till January 1998 before you can rent it.
Tomorrow Never Dies just on time for me and me and my mothers boyfriend won each 2 tickets for limited morning premiere 4 days before release on 18 December 1997 in two difrent cinema's. I go with my mom. He with my brother. Even more joy when later movie was released as 2VHS limited edition box (Limited to 12.000) include one of 12 story boards (limited to 1.000) from storyboard over view who is include too. I believe i payd fl 59,99 same money i pay later for single disc dvd of The World Is Not Enough (My first dvd).
Connery made being a bad ass look so effortlessly easy in this film. Every look and every word and every movement oozes with ice cold coolness.
I’d say that QOS going up in estimation really only applies to Bond fans. I don’t think it’s getting any re-appraisal among wider critics and movie watching public