Who Still Has a Difficult Time Getting Into Craig?

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    Univex wrote: »
    To be fair, about Craig's Bond not being a "savour faire" kind of guy, he did know what a 1948 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith was. In what probably is my favourite part in SP (just them waiting and then the rolls coming in from the desert and taking them into the massive crater). He also knew that the DB5 was from 1964, in CR. So he knows his classic cars. He also has good taste in fashion and knows his drinks.

    Not the same as going to a concert in Vienna, or knowing his beluga. Still...

    And a lot of times the filmmakers intentionally made a joke out of that aspect, most notably Hamilton, Gilbert, Mankiewicz. Lines like...

    Bond: “I like sake. *sips* Especially when it’s served at the correct temperature. 98.4 degrees like this is.”

    Bond: “‘51, I believe.”
    M: “There is no year for sherry.”
    Bond: “I was referring to the original vintage in which the sherry is based... 1851, unmistakable.”

    I love lines like these, but only for those type of films. They stepped away from that since Moore’s remark on a rare plant in MR. I don’t think even Dalton and Brosnan were shown to have insane knowledge of obscure facts and accurate taste buds.
  • Posts: 6,710
    Univex wrote: »
    To be fair, about Craig's Bond not being a "savour faire" kind of guy, he did know what a 1948 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith was. In what probably is my favourite part in SP (just them waiting and then the rolls coming in from the desert and taking them into the massive crater). He also knew that the DB5 was from 1964, in CR. So he knows his classic cars. He also has good taste in fashion and knows his drinks.

    Not the same as going to a concert in Vienna, or knowing his beluga. Still...

    And a lot of times the filmmakers intentionally made a joke out of that aspect, most notably Hamilton, Gilbert, Mankiewicz. Lines like...

    Bond: “I like sake. *sips* Especially when it’s served at the correct temperature. 98.4 degrees like this is.”

    Bond: “‘51, I believe.”
    M: “There is no year for sherry.”
    Bond: “I was referring to the original vintage in which the sherry is based... 1851, unmistakable.”

    I love lines like these, but only for those type of films. They stepped away from that since Moore’s remark on a rare plant in MR. I don’t think even Dalton and Brosnan were shown to have insane knowledge of obscure facts and accurate taste buds.

    Which really is a shame. I always loved that aspect of it. They should do it more with Craig. It suits his Bond better than the one liners. Vesper set it straight, he's got a chip on the shoulder, and so he likes to know these obscure pedantic facts to gain instant power over snobbish people, or even to set them off, depending on his objective.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    I’m fine with showing that side of Craig, as long as they don’t go too absurd. I like OHMSS, but the times they have Lazenby doing something like showing his expertise as a lepidopterist felt too much like a carryover from the Hamilton/Glibert approach.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,901
    matt_u wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    He was bang out of order with the way he spoke to M though,that wasn't necessary.
    This is true, but I like to think that even if he clearly respect Mallory since the SF events he was still working for the late M, which for him is still an higher authority than Mallory.
    To me it was M that was out of line. And later in the film in the restaurant confronted by Q and Moneypenny that's made clear--he's learned the true utility of OO7, and truly takes on the role of M.

    Knowing what Bond knew at the start would have cocked it all up.

  • OOWolfOOWolf Savannah
    edited July 2019 Posts: 140
    That’s because after Craig’s breakthrough in CR he was immediately lauded as the “best since Connery” (though to be fair Brosnan go the same treatment after GE came out) and everyone fawned over him as something of a “second coming”. Craig-fawning went through the roof, Brosnan-bashing became the norm and quite fashionable, and any criticism of Craig or CR was immediately ridiculed or mocked. If you didn’t absolutely love Craig you must have been a Brosnan lover or were told to “go back to watching DAD”. Well, fast-forward a decade later and we see that Craig indeed was not the second coming and even has 2 major turkeys under his belt. Not exactly the sterling run that was expected a la DN-FRWL-GF-TB.

    Bottom line is that everyone has their preferences and should be entitled to them. Not caring for Craig’s performance doesn’t mean there is something wrong with you or that you are “wrong”. I still maintain that Connery at his worst and most bloated is still better than Craig at his best. Just personal preference. And it’s a perfectly legitimate opinion. Craig just can never hope to possess that special something that Connery possessed. Or Moore for that matter. Or even Brosnan.

    Absolutely. It's like a trend whenever an actor is Bond. I just know that I'll never have the true appreciation for Craig, even when he leaves. I feel that his casting was based on Barbara Broccoli alone and to me that's not enough. I cannot agree more that even at their worst, Connery, Moore and Brosnan possessed more pizzaz than Craig could only dream of. The only true credit I give to Craig -as Bond- is when he made his debut in 'CR,' but even then, you had the best modern Bond director and a classic novel to go from. So, the material that was already there was stronger than Craig, Purvis and Wade combined.

    As a Bond fan, it irritates me to know that there's an instance from EON to keep Craig around as long as possible -though I'm not losing any sleep over it (hehe). It bothers me even more to know that Craig is over the role, yet accepting a 5th film because he could get as much money as he wants. On top of that, he has no humility and says he wishes that he could afford a DB5. Really? Not very funny, even if he meant it to be humorous.

    Maybe it's good that Craig is getting a 5th film, because perhaps after him, there will be a proper facelift and rejuvenation of the series; or, Barbara Broccoli will make another famous judgment call and we'll get Tom Hiddleston or Carrot Top as the next Bond, Purvis and Wade will come back, yet again, and we'll just continue to get a lackluster entry, perfect for millennials.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    Why would it be “perfect for Millennials”?
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    OOWolf wrote: »
    That’s because after Craig’s breakthrough in CR he was immediately lauded as the “best since Connery” (though to be fair Brosnan go the same treatment after GE came out) and everyone fawned over him as something of a “second coming”. Craig-fawning went through the roof, Brosnan-bashing became the norm and quite fashionable, and any criticism of Craig or CR was immediately ridiculed or mocked. If you didn’t absolutely love Craig you must have been a Brosnan lover or were told to “go back to watching DAD”. Well, fast-forward a decade later and we see that Craig indeed was not the second coming and even has 2 major turkeys under his belt. Not exactly the sterling run that was expected a la DN-FRWL-GF-TB.

    Bottom line is that everyone has their preferences and should be entitled to them. Not caring for Craig’s performance doesn’t mean there is something wrong with you or that you are “wrong”. I still maintain that Connery at his worst and most bloated is still better than Craig at his best. Just personal preference. And it’s a perfectly legitimate opinion. Craig just can never hope to possess that special something that Connery possessed. Or Moore for that matter. Or even Brosnan.

    Absolutely. It's like a trend whenever an actor is Bond. I just know that I'll never have the true appreciation for Craig, even when he leaves. I feel that his casting was based on Barbara Broccoli alone and to me that's not enough. I cannot agree more that even at their worst, Connery, Moore and Brosnan possessed more pizzaz than Craig could only dream of. The only true credit I give to Craig -as Bond- is when he made his debut in 'CR,' but even then, you had the best modern Bond director and a classic novel to go from. So, the material that was already there was stronger than Craig, Purvis and Wade combined.

    As a Bond fan, it irritates me to know that there's an instance from EON to keep Craig around as long as possible -though I'm not losing any sleep over it (hehe). It bothers me even more to know that Craig is over the role, yet accepting a 5th film because he could get as much money as he wants. On top of that, he has no humility and says he wishes that he could afford a DB5. Really? Not very funny, even if he meant it to be humorous.

    Maybe it's good that Craig is getting a 5th film, because perhaps after him, there will be a proper facelift and rejuvenation of the series; or, Barbara Broccoli will make another famous judgment call and we'll get Tom Hiddleston or Carrot Top as the next Bond, Purvis and Wade will come back, yet again, and we'll just continue to get a lackluster entry, perfect for millennials.

    We had enough lacklustre entries between 97 - 2002 thanks. Maybe the next guy will be more to your liking. This exactly how I felt during that time period. Also what is this millennials bollocks?
    I'm 47 and bar SPECTRE I love this era and plenty my age group do.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    It’s like how in the 90s GenXers used to be accused of being slackers, lacking a quality of previous generations. 20 years before that, such dismissals were applied to Baby Boomers.

    It all comes down to this: fear. When old men are facing their mortality and worry that the next generation will screw it all up. This is a trend that has been a part of humanity since its birth. I have no doubt Millennials years down the line will complain about how scary it will be when their children come of age.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,198
    Univex wrote: »
    To be fair, about Craig's Bond not being a "savour faire" kind of guy, he did know what a 1948 Rolls Royce Silver Wraith was. In what probably is my favourite part in SP (just them waiting and then the rolls coming in from the desert and taking them into the massive crater). He also knew that the DB5 was from 1964, in CR. So he knows his classic cars. He also has good taste in fashion and knows his drinks.

    Not the same as going to a concert in Vienna, or knowing his beluga. Still...

    And a lot of times the filmmakers intentionally made a joke out of that aspect, most notably Hamilton, Gilbert, Mankiewicz. Lines like...

    Bond: “I like sake. *sips* Especially when it’s served at the correct temperature. 98.4 degrees like this is.”

    Bond: “‘51, I believe.”
    M: “There is no year for sherry.”
    Bond: “I was referring to the original vintage in which the sherry is based... 1851, unmistakable.”

    I love lines like these, but only for those type of films. They stepped away from that since Moore’s remark on a rare plant in MR. I don’t think even Dalton and Brosnan were shown to have insane knowledge of obscure facts and accurate taste buds.

    Dalton has a few of them in TLD, most notably changing champagnes for Koskov's food basket. Then again, TLD might be the last of the classic Bonds in many regards.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,356
    OOWolf wrote: »
    That’s because after Craig’s breakthrough in CR he was immediately lauded as the “best since Connery” (though to be fair Brosnan go the same treatment after GE came out) and everyone fawned over him as something of a “second coming”. Craig-fawning went through the roof, Brosnan-bashing became the norm and quite fashionable, and any criticism of Craig or CR was immediately ridiculed or mocked. If you didn’t absolutely love Craig you must have been a Brosnan lover or were told to “go back to watching DAD”. Well, fast-forward a decade later and we see that Craig indeed was not the second coming and even has 2 major turkeys under his belt. Not exactly the sterling run that was expected a la DN-FRWL-GF-TB.

    Bottom line is that everyone has their preferences and should be entitled to them. Not caring for Craig’s performance doesn’t mean there is something wrong with you or that you are “wrong”. I still maintain that Connery at his worst and most bloated is still better than Craig at his best. Just personal preference. And it’s a perfectly legitimate opinion. Craig just can never hope to possess that special something that Connery possessed. Or Moore for that matter. Or even Brosnan.

    Absolutely. It's like a trend whenever an actor is Bond. I just know that I'll never have the true appreciation for Craig, even when he leaves. I feel that his casting was based on Barbara Broccoli alone and to me that's not enough. I cannot agree more that even at their worst, Connery, Moore and Brosnan possessed more pizzaz than Craig could only dream of. The only true credit I give to Craig -as Bond- is when he made his debut in 'CR,' but even then, you had the best modern Bond director and a classic novel to go from. So, the material that was already there was stronger than Craig, Purvis and Wade combined.

    As a Bond fan, it irritates me to know that there's an instance from EON to keep Craig around as long as possible -though I'm not losing any sleep over it (hehe). It bothers me even more to know that Craig is over the role, yet accepting a 5th film because he could get as much money as he wants. On top of that, he has no humility and says he wishes that he could afford a DB5. Really? Not very funny, even if he meant it to be humorous.

    Maybe it's good that Craig is getting a 5th film, because perhaps after him, there will be a proper facelift and rejuvenation of the series; or, Barbara Broccoli will make another famous judgment call and we'll get Tom Hiddleston or Carrot Top as the next Bond, Purvis and Wade will come back, yet again, and we'll just continue to get a lackluster entry, perfect for millennials.

    You seem to dislike BB above all else.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    Come on, echo, Craig is Bond only because of Barbara Broccoli having a lady boner for him. Has NOTHING to do with his popularity in the role or the fact his films were hits for the franchise.

    Clearly she’s mad, and now the franchise is in worse shape than it’s ever been.
  • I feel similar about Craig and agree with several points made by OOWolf. I didn’t dislike him when he was cast, I was just a bit dubious/surprised but still positive because Bond had never been miscast up until then. CR was a great film and as he was playing a young Bond, the way he looked and carried himself made sense to me or at least I accepted it. After that I expected him to become and look more Bond like and he didn’t, and overall he became too similar to other contemporary spy thriller heroes and lost his uniqueness as Bond.
    Still, I think it was extremely hard to transition Bond into our times, it was never going to be trauma-free in my opinion. I give Craig credit for getting the job done, he did as well as he could have done.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,586
    He’s definitely a unique Bond, and his films / overall story is also unique within the Bond saga. It makes sense to me that not everyone would take to him as Bond.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Pay more attention to your chef
    Posts: 7,054
    Definitely my least favorite era of Bond. And despite that, I love two of its films, flaws and everything (CR and SP) and very much enjoy another one (NTTD).

    QoS's main shortcoming for me is Craig's acting-- my least favorite Bond performance in any Bond film. Alright, he is meant to be stoic and with a heart that's partially turned into stone, as he is still healing from Vesper's death, but even so, he plays too much of the role on the same note. Everything appears to be happening inside of the man, and on his impassive face I see too little to hold on to. There is no character like Vesper around either, someone to bring out a warmer side of him. This stands in dramatic contrast to the three films I mentioned before, as I very much enjoy watching him in those. If Craig's acting was different, my appreciation for QoS would be much higher-- it's the most significant flaw of the film.

    And SF is my least favorite Bond film. I find it a bit sterile, a bit clinical, despite enjoying several aspects of it. Craig himself is much more engaging to me than in QoS, despite not reaching the heights of the three films I prefer the most of his era.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 698
    @OOWolf
    In my eyes, 'Casino Royale' was his peek and everything else weak in general. I felt that in each successive film he started to look less Bond-like, especially in 'Skyfall' and 'Spectre.'

    Yeah agreed.

    When Craig was announced back in 2005 I was all for him. I liked how aloof he was at the press conference, not letting the media hype get to him, and I hated the CraigNotBond people. When CR was finally released it was the first Bond movie I watched twice in theaters.

    QOS was a massive disappointment at first, but it stayed with me, and upon subsequent viewings it became a personal favorite of mine. I had criticisms of it, but I was fully on-board with the "Bond in the real world" aesthetic.

    Then Skyfall happened. I'd never been so bored watching a Bond movie in theaters. All the vitality and energy of CR and QOS had been replaced by a sterile, lifeless, overly-composed theatricality courtesy of Sam Mendes. The imagery and mood were all wrong. Mendes kept framing Bond as if he were Batman, standing on a roof of London with his black walking coat, etc. Craig didn't look or act like Bond anymore. He wasn't the same character he was in CR and QOS but he also didn't seem like a traditional Bond, either. Spectre only continued this trend.

    Mendes derailed the Craig era by obsessing over the trappings of Bond movies- the ivory tuxedo, the Aston Martin, the ejector seat, martinis- instead of getting Bond himself right. Skyfall feels like a Batman movie masquerading as a Bond movie (or vice versa) whereas Spectre feels like a Bond movie without James Bond.

    Getting Bond's image and attitude is critical. Bond, like Rambo, Indy, or McLane, should be an instantly-recognizable character. Otherwise you'll end up with this:
    no-time-to-die-massimo-alba-duster-rag-and-bone-henley.jpg
  • I think the man is a great Bond, and one who I’ve had the pleasure of experiencing 3 of his 5 films in the theaters, in fact Casino Royale was the first one I saw in theaters, so my nostalgia for Craig will always be there. I just think it fails at connected storytelling on a large scale. There was no pre-planned arc for him, which you should probably have if you want to connect the films flawlessly, and several of the creative decisions just came across as more baffling than anything previous era’s had done. I can go on and on about the issues I have with the Craig era, but that’s what the review section is for ;)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,201
    slide_99 wrote: »
    @OOWolf
    In my eyes, 'Casino Royale' was his peek and everything else weak in general. I felt that in each successive film he started to look less Bond-like, especially in 'Skyfall' and 'Spectre.'

    Yeah agreed.

    When Craig was announced back in 2005 I was all for him. I liked how aloof he was at the press conference, not letting the media hype get to him, and I hated the CraigNotBond people. When CR was finally released it was the first Bond movie I watched twice in theaters.

    QOS was a massive disappointment at first, but it stayed with me, and upon subsequent viewings it became a personal favorite of mine. I had criticisms of it, but I was fully on-board with the "Bond in the real world" aesthetic.

    Then Skyfall happened. I'd never been so bored watching a Bond movie in theaters. All the vitality and energy of CR and QOS had been replaced by a sterile, lifeless, overly-composed theatricality courtesy of Sam Mendes. The imagery and mood were all wrong. Mendes kept framing Bond as if he were Batman, standing on a roof of London with his black walking coat, etc. Craig didn't look or act like Bond anymore. He wasn't the same character he was in CR and QOS but he also didn't seem like a traditional Bond, either. Spectre only continued this trend.

    Mendes derailed the Craig era by obsessing over the trappings of Bond movies- the ivory tuxedo, the Aston Martin, the ejector seat, martinis- instead of getting Bond himself right. Skyfall feels like a Batman movie masquerading as a Bond movie (or vice versa) whereas Spectre feels like a Bond movie without James Bond.

    Getting Bond's image and attitude is critical. Bond, like Rambo, Indy, or McLane, should be an instantly-recognizable character. Otherwise you'll end up with this:
    no-time-to-die-massimo-alba-duster-rag-and-bone-henley.jpg

    I actually like that Bond changes throughout the movies. There’s actual growth with his Bond that we only saw minimally with his predecessors (Connery was probably the most extreme).

    If Craig’s three latter films were just repeats of CR and especially the dreadful QOS, I’m not sure I would have been too excited over his run.

    I like that in SF he’s a far less impulsive, and more morose and cynical. He’s closer to the latter Fleming novels in that respect. Then with SP it’s basically Craig playing up cinematic Bond that’s cool as a cucumber. Casually walking the rooftops of Mexico City like it’s just another day. No longer having the chip on his shoulder from the first three films. Then with NTTD we cut to him into retirement years later when he’s learned to be more open and not as reserved with his thoughts and feelings like in the first four films, which I understand is a controversial approach.
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