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Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I know it sucks that NTTD took six years to finally come out. These things aren’t taken lightly. I’m sure EON would have liked to have had it out by 2019, and they could have possibly put something out by this year had things worked out differently. But it is what it is. No sense complaining about how things aren’t like what they used to be under Cubby’s reign. Hell, plenty of Bond fans were complaining even during his reign so let’s not pretend his run from 62-89 was a perfect golden era for Bond where nothing went wrong and everything was great.

    And honestly, IF Cubby were alive today, do you think he would have been able to do what he did back in the 60s in today’s climate? Would all of the behind the scenes stuff that’s keeping Bond films from coming every other year had just magically vanished? Would COVID have just said “oh, I’m sorry Cubby, I didn’t know you wanted a Bond film out this year, I’ll just back off and let you release this films so fans don’t loose their minds over waiting another year”?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    All good points @MakeshiftPython (and funny too!).

    Although I love the films from the 80s, the fact is that the health of the franchise wasn’t doing well at all. One of the reasons was because Cubby didn’t know how to compete against a new crop of action films and characters/superstars, from Indy, to Riggs and Murtaugh, to John McLean, to Batman and John Rambo…

    No one can say EoN hasn’t been competing very well in the present day, in a much more crowded space.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,473
    I think most of us believe NTTD was an anomaly due to multiple factors. It was a very unfortunate process, and I was admittedly extremely frustrated during it, but I’m not bitter or anything anymore. I’m quite optimistic once Bond 26 is figured out and released, we’ll have more regular releases again, 2-4 years apart.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I always figured that we would at least get it by 2025, due to the Amazon purchase and how things are being shuffled around as a result.

    Also because there was a four year gap between DAD and CR, so I figure we would see a similar gap.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I know it sucks that NTTD took six years to finally come out. These things aren’t taken lightly. I’m sure EON would have liked to have had it out by 2019, and they could have possibly put something out by this year had things worked out differently. But it is what it is. No sense complaining about how things aren’t like what they used to be under Cubby’s reign. Hell, plenty of Bond fans were complaining even during his reign so let’s not pretend his run from 62-89 was a perfect golden era for Bond where nothing went wrong and everything was great.

    Plus even the sainted Cubby found himself unable to make the movies when legal problems arose.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I always figured that we would at least get it by 2025, due to the Amazon purchase and how things are being shuffled around as a result.

    Also because there was a four year gap between DAD and CR, so I figure we would see a similar gap.

    ain't gonna happen. :-<
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    I always figured that we would at least get it by 2025, due to the Amazon purchase and how things are being shuffled around as a result.

    Also because there was a four year gap between DAD and CR, so I figure we would see a similar gap.

    ain't gonna happen. :-<

    I can wait longer. It’s not like my life depends on it.
  • Kojak007Kojak007
    Posts: 133
    Watched the new Dungeons & Dragons movie in the cinema last week. Although I don't now anything about the game it's based on, I had a lot of fun - to be honest, more than with most Bond movies during the last decade. The film was entertaining, surprisingly funny and had a lot of creativity and energy - aspects I mostly missed in the latest Bond movies, with the expection of CR and (probably) SF.
    I hope the new era will bring back some energy into the series. And I hope the tone will be lighter, although I doubt that will happen.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited April 2023 Posts: 8,216
    In anticipation of the next entry, I’ve recently rewatched the MI films; for Bond 26 I want Rogue Nation. It really is an awesome film that balances all of the ingredients beautifully. The tone is perfect, with just the right amount of comic relief.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    edited April 2023 Posts: 1,033
    Given recent success of the John Wick series and The Batman… I could actually see them going in a sort of dark noir style direction. It’s been a while since we’ve had a “detective” style Bond film, which lends itself to the noir sensibilities of the above films (I suppose also the Shanghai scenes in Skyfall). Further, where The Batman portrayed Bruce Wayne as potential mentally ill, I wonder how audiences would feel about exploring Bond’s vices — not necessarily moody like Craig, but more in terms of Bond’s questionable coping mechanisms being an assassin. This would also be one route to bring back the promiscuity and heavy drinking of the older eras. Of course, the humor would have to be neatly balanced with this style.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    I like that idea @Junglist_1985
    It would be a way to keep the darkness and inner psyche of the Craig films, without copying the Craig era. If they really wanted to be bold, they could explore Bonds substance abuse. But show why Bond has chosen to really on this in order to do his job as a spy, an assassin.
    Could be an interesting avenue, that hasn't been looked at yet.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 2023 Posts: 8,399
    I feel your pain kojak. The truth is many Bond fans feel this way. In a way, I can forgive people for forgetting what the meaning of "classic bond" is. Afterall, it's been so long since we saw it on screen. All we see nowadays is echoes, reproduction of imagery from a begone era. Listen to Arnold's swashbuckling 90's scores, listen to Barry. Listen to the james bond theme, and wait for that swell to loom up and feel the hairs on your neck stand up. For me, "classic" bond just means the bond in which nobody truly does it better. Who peels off a wetsuit to reveal perfectly pressed tuxedo underneath. Who careens around the streets of St petersburg in a tank and pauses to adjust his tie. Who always has a quip no matter how ensnared in the enemies trap he may be. When you watch the recent films, how many moments stand out as truly memorable, truly exhilarating? The plane chase down the alps? The cars doing weird flips over bonds head in the woods? The nighttime chase through Rome? Back in the days of 1962 - 2002 bond films were inventive, and they actually put in some effort to think of unique and novel situations that take advantage of the locations and get the most out of them. Although the old films are viewed as simple by some, there's so much invention and creativity that went into those scripts. The Craig films do nothing unique or different. The whole point is that Craig is a real agent, and as such he does what any other agent would do in the situation, and therefore theirs nothing special about him, he gets into chases and fights just like Jason bourne would, and wins because he has bigger muscles than the other guy. There's nothing that sets him apart, and that's the point, the "classic" nobody does it better bond is no more. This is why they barely use the bond theme anymore - because there's nowhere really to use it. The bond theme only really makes sense to play when there's a triumphant moment in the film to accompany it. The news hardly ever have a moment of genuine relief, all the action is supposed to be gritty and in your face. And what about the stunts? Back in the day bond was THE series to beat when it came to bold, unique and impressive stunts. Each film had at least one or two showstopper moments, which the audience would erupt in applause. I think the last time I saw an audience applaud one of the Craig films it during skyfall, and that was just seeing the db5 show up again. The modern films just aren't as exhilarating, and as long as bond is supposed to be a real person in the real world it'll stay that way. Sooner or later EON have to accept that the Bond lives in a heightened world where fantastical things happen and that's okay. It doesn't disminish him as a character, he can still have emotions and depth. But the early 00's post 9/11 obsession with realism and groundedness has really run its course at this point. They've really squeezed that idea dry, and they need to move on and let Bond find its playful side again. It's annoying when people act like classic bond today could never work since there are several other franchises around which have been pulling this off for years and making BANK at the boxoffice. Clearly there's no reason why a more irreverent bond wouldn't work today, it just takes EON finding the creativity and drive from somewhere to actually pull it off...
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    I'm getting the feeling, you're not a Daniel Craig fan? :-?
    And who is this bond? At least use a capital when referring to the title characters name.
    Bond. ;)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    Benny wrote: »
    I'm getting the feeling, you're not a Daniel Craig fan? :-?
    And who is this bond? At least use a capital when referring to the title characters name.
    Bond. ;)

    Toućhe, Benster :)>-
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    But the “many Bond fans feel this way” line @Mendes4Lyfe always uses to justify his opinion…

  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 1,993
    I don't share the opinion other franchises have pulled off classic Bond. Certain elements, yes. But not the whole package. I like the MI series, but it's not classic Bond.

    @Peter said classic Bond was a magical time. Lightning in a bottle. Fleming, Maibaum, Young, Barry, the art direction... It can't be recaptured.......

    I wonder if the film makers understand classic Bond as well as the fans do.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    I feel your pain kojak. The truth is many Bond fans feel this way. In a way, I can forgive people for forgetting what the meaning of "classic bond" is. Afterall, it's been so long since we saw it on screen. All we see nowadays is echoes, reproduction of imagery from a begone era. Listen to Arnold's swashbuckling 90's scores, listen to Barry. Listen to the james bond theme, and wait for that swell to loom up and feel the hairs on your neck stand up. For me, "classic" bond just means the bond in which nobody truly does it better. Who peels off a wetsuit to reveal perfectly pressed tuxedo underneath. Who careens around the streets of St petersburg in a tank and pauses to adjust his tie. Who always has a quip no matter how ensnared in the enemies trap he may be. When you watch the recent films, how many moments stand out as truly memorable, truly exhilarating? The plane chase down the alps? The cars doing weird flips over bonds head in the woods? The nighttime chase through Rome? Back in the days of 1962 - 2002 bond films were inventive, and they actually put in some effort to think of unique and novel situations that take advantage of the locations and get the most out of them. Although the old films are viewed as simple by some, there's so much invention and creativity that went into those scripts. The Craig films do nothing unique or different. The whole point is that Craig is a real agent, and as such he does what any other agent would do in the situation, and therefore theirs nothing special about him, he gets into chases and fights just like Jason bourne would, and wins because he has bigger muscles than the other guy. There's nothing that sets him apart, and that's the point, the "classic" nobody does it better bond is no more. This is why they barely use the bond theme anymore - because there's nowhere really to use it. The bond theme only really makes sense to play when there's a triumphant moment in the film to accompany it. The news hardly ever have a moment of genuine relief, all the action is supposed to be gritty and in your face. And what about the stunts? Back in the day bond was THE series to beat when it came to bold, unique and impressive stunts. Each film had at least one or two showstopper moments, which the audience would erupt in applause. I think the last time I saw an audience applaud one of the Craig films it during skyfall, and that was just seeing the db5 show up again. The modern films just aren't as exhilarating, and as long as bond is supposed to be a real person in the real world it'll stay that way. Sooner or later EON have to accept that the Bond lives in a heightened world where fantastical things happen and that's okay. It doesn't disminish him as a character, he can still have emotions and depth. But the early 00's post 9/11 obsession with realism and groundedness has really run its course at this point. They've really squeezed that idea dry, and they need to move on and let Bond find its playful side again. It's annoying when people act like classic bond today could never work since there are several other franchises around which have been pulling this off for years and making BANK at the boxoffice. Clearly there's no reason why a more irreverent bond wouldn't work today, it just takes EON finding the creativity and drive from somewhere to actually pull it off...

    It sounds more like what you’re asking for is the comforting blanket of your childhood. That’s something Eon is never going to deliver.
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 1,993
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »

    It sounds more like what you’re asking for is the comforting blanket of your childhood. That’s something Eon is never going to deliver.

    Comforting blanket of childhood? I didn't get that impression at all. I read it as an appreciation of the original.
  • WhyBondWhyBond USA
    Posts: 69
    Craig was a great Bond still don't like the idea of his ending. It felt forced and it became a parody of the Austin Powers character Mustafa where he gets shot and mangled up but is somehow still alive. If they want to do that this should be the end of the franchise. It feels like EON are treading into the popular in thing of multiverses in the Bond timeline.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    WhyBond wrote: »
    It feels like EON are treading into the popular in thing of multiverses in the Bond timeline.

    How? None of Craig’s films ever elaborate on the presence of multi-verses at any point.
  • delfloriadelfloria
    Posts: 1,860
    Well said Mendes4lyle. I agree that Bond has lost what made the series different from it's competitors. A classic style Bond would surprise and thrill a new audience because most are just not familiar with that older era now.

    Comforting blanket of childhood? Perhaps Craig's era may be thought of that way some day.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 2023 Posts: 8,399
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    I feel your pain kojak. The truth is many Bond fans feel this way. In a way, I can forgive people for forgetting what the meaning of "classic bond" is. Afterall, it's been so long since we saw it on screen. All we see nowadays is echoes, reproduction of imagery from a begone era. Listen to Arnold's swashbuckling 90's scores, listen to Barry. Listen to the james bond theme, and wait for that swell to loom up and feel the hairs on your neck stand up. For me, "classic" bond just means the bond in which nobody truly does it better. Who peels off a wetsuit to reveal perfectly pressed tuxedo underneath. Who careens around the streets of St petersburg in a tank and pauses to adjust his tie. Who always has a quip no matter how ensnared in the enemies trap he may be. When you watch the recent films, how many moments stand out as truly memorable, truly exhilarating? The plane chase down the alps? The cars doing weird flips over bonds head in the woods? The nighttime chase through Rome? Back in the days of 1962 - 2002 bond films were inventive, and they actually put in some effort to think of unique and novel situations that take advantage of the locations and get the most out of them. Although the old films are viewed as simple by some, there's so much invention and creativity that went into those scripts. The Craig films do nothing unique or different. The whole point is that Craig is a real agent, and as such he does what any other agent would do in the situation, and therefore theirs nothing special about him, he gets into chases and fights just like Jason bourne would, and wins because he has bigger muscles than the other guy. There's nothing that sets him apart, and that's the point, the "classic" nobody does it better bond is no more. This is why they barely use the bond theme anymore - because there's nowhere really to use it. The bond theme only really makes sense to play when there's a triumphant moment in the film to accompany it. The news hardly ever have a moment of genuine relief, all the action is supposed to be gritty and in your face. And what about the stunts? Back in the day bond was THE series to beat when it came to bold, unique and impressive stunts. Each film had at least one or two showstopper moments, which the audience would erupt in applause. I think the last time I saw an audience applaud one of the Craig films it during skyfall, and that was just seeing the db5 show up again. The modern films just aren't as exhilarating, and as long as bond is supposed to be a real person in the real world it'll stay that way. Sooner or later EON have to accept that the Bond lives in a heightened world where fantastical things happen and that's okay. It doesn't disminish him as a character, he can still have emotions and depth. But the early 00's post 9/11 obsession with realism and groundedness has really run its course at this point. They've really squeezed that idea dry, and they need to move on and let Bond find its playful side again. It's annoying when people act like classic bond today could never work since there are several other franchises around which have been pulling this off for years and making BANK at the boxoffice. Clearly there's no reason why a more irreverent bond wouldn't work today, it just takes EON finding the creativity and drive from somewhere to actually pull it off...

    It sounds more like what you’re asking for is the comforting blanket of your childhood. That’s something Eon is never going to deliver.

    Not at this rate... I-)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Nah, they shouldn’t resort to making Bond films for children. Leave that behind with Moore and Brosnan.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I don't share the opinion other franchises have pulled off classic Bond. Certain elements, yes. But not the whole package. I like the MI series, but it's not classic Bond.

    @Peter said classic Bond was a magical time. Lightning in a bottle. Fleming, Maibaum, Young, Barry, the art direction... It can't be recaptured.......

    I wonder if the film makers understand classic Bond as well as the fans do.

    Of course they do: they were there.
  • WhyBondWhyBond USA
    Posts: 69
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    WhyBond wrote: »
    It feels like EON are treading into the popular in thing of multiverses in the Bond timeline.

    How? None of Craig’s films ever elaborate on the presence of multi-verses at any point.

    Driving the same DB5, carrying the same Walther, introducing himself as Bond, the same 00. Have him killed and brought back alive by a new actor. It's a bit far fetched.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited April 2023 Posts: 8,188
    WhyBond wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    WhyBond wrote: »
    It feels like EON are treading into the popular in thing of multiverses in the Bond timeline.

    How? None of Craig’s films ever elaborate on the presence of multi-verses at any point.

    Driving the same DB5, carrying the same Walther, introducing himself as Bond, the same 00. Have him killed and brought back alive by a new actor. It's a bit far fetched.

    What does any of that have to do with multi-verse?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    As much as Roger Moore playing Ian Fleming's Bond in the 80s does.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 693
    @Mendes4Lyfe
    I agree that the Craig era suffered from a lack of imagination. The model for a great action sequence is something like the Cortina chase in FYEO: motorcyclists pursuing Bond on skis, and then it ups the ante by having them go down a luge. It's something you'd only ever see in a Bond movie. In the Craig movies, though, for the most part a fight scene is just a fight scene, a shootout is just a shootout, it's the kind of stuff you'd see in any Taken or Bourne movie that's made with half the budget. The rope fight in QOS was the last time it felt like the filmmakers attempted a truly Bondian action sequence, but it suffered from the hectic editing.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @slide_99 what about the Matera sequence in NTTD? Oh wait… you didn’t see the film, that’s right…
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 2023 Posts: 8,399
    slide_99 wrote: »
    @Mendes4Lyfe
    I agree that the Craig era suffered from a lack of imagination. The model for a great action sequence is something like the Cortina chase in FYEO: motorcyclists pursuing Bond on skis, and then it ups the ante by having them go down a luge. It's something you'd only ever see in a Bond movie. In the Craig movies, though, for the most part a fight scene is just a fight scene, a shootout is just a shootout, it's the kind of stuff you'd see in any Taken or Bourne movie that's made with half the budget. The rope fight in QOS was the last time it felt like the filmmakers attempted a truly Bondian action sequence, but it suffered from the hectic editing.

    To put it bluntly Barbara and Craig seem more interested in the emotional/dramatic story than they are in creating unique and inventive action set pieces. Superb action has always been the signature hallmark of the series, it's sad to see EON be knocked off their perch by other franchises, namely mission impossible and john wick.
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