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Yeah, and too often, Gunn’s look isn’t too hot when he starts debating and belittling and demeaning the mouth breathing fans— whether they deserve it, or no.
It’s best to keep fans at arm’s length and worry about your job, not trying to please everyone all of the time (focus on pleasing some people most of the time if you can, and ignore the noise. The noise being us).
If there is no news until 2027, the only news we can expect is the sale of the rights.
The IP is in fine state, except EON don't have anything to do with the novels. Video games I'm not sure. Also if there is a reason to have not moved at all, then I'm sure a "we're waiting for the right team to give the best possible film" will do lovely. That's an update in itself.
I didn't specify anything like this. For the most part I don't think I have been complaining too much about the lack of updates. EON can update us when they update us, just preferably sooner rather than later as this process is taking especially long. But the reason they update people is because they do owe us something. The entertainment business owes itself to its fans by definition. Saying EON don't owe us anything is like saying a sports team shouldn't announce disclose any preseason matches (and play all behind closed doors) because they owe nothing to the fans.
"When the season starts, you'll all buy tickets for at least one match anyway."
There are many acceptable reasons for not making a film right now, and maybe BB and MGW have touched on that and I haven't been aware (I only really follow Bond media through here). But "we don't owe anything" isn't an acceptable reason (especially when by saying James Bond will Return, they have essentially promised us a film which they now owe to us)
We don't need lists of directors. Or minute details. Perhaps I suggested that but I all I meant was "work on Bond 26 has commenced," or a "we're formulating ideas."
For you that’s fine, for someone else, it’s a cop-out.
To another it’s “Babs lying “.
To yet another “Babs is holding back”.
They can’t win.
No, best to keep we frothing fans at arms length. There’s absolutely zero value in engaging us and feeling responsible in delivering us news.
Their only job is to make the best possible film.
Period.
When you say it's unacceptable, in what manner do we not accept it? It's just something we have to accept, surely. We don't have any power in this, and it's up to a company whether they sell us a product or not, we can't force them.
I don't really see the point in getting frustrated; it's just a film and it'll come when it comes. A lot of people here seem to complain about all the recent films so I often get the impression a new one wouldn't be that welcome anyway!
I think they'd have problems with even that to be honest.
They could say 'we're coming up with ideas' or 'we're waiting for the right people' but why would that receive any less criticism from some fans on here? They'd still say they're working too slow, that it's been x number of years since the last Bond film wrapped etc. Worse yet, it'd give non-fans/casual viewers who read that quote a false sense of expectation for a new Bond film than they can/will deliver. At the very least it'd be effectively the same for them as what BB has said (namely that no official work has begun).
Like I said, we're not customers in the traditional sense of the concept, and even if you argue this we're really a very small part of the audience who pay to see these films (I know it's not nice to think like that, but it's true unfortunately. They do not make these films thinking about us, and thank God for that as they'd be worse off trying to cater to us alone). EON make these films for the widest audience possible, and clearly want to make them to the best quality they can manage. They've taken a more active role in the game too and may have incorporated it into their strategy for introducing the next era.
Don't we want to give the producers the time to find the right actor for the role? "Good enough" won't do. Almost every rumour inexorably leads to instant hatred. They're not going to settle for next-door's mister Good Lookin'. They need to find that special actor, who looks the part, can act well, shows commitment, has an untainted reputation (very important these days), isn't boring, meets contemporary expectations, and so on. They're looking for a needle in a haystack. Let's give them the time to find it.
Don't we also want to give them the time to write a great movie? Seeing how critical we have become over the years, and how films like SP and NTTD have been called pieces of trash over a handful of moments that some here disagree with, the pressure must be enormous. Surely we don't want P&W or anyone else to just bake us a sponge cake and call it a first-rate pie.
And then there's the remaining 90% of a Bond production that has to be taken care of. Honestly, how BB and MGW still find sleep, is beyond me.
"Just dig up unused Fleming material." "Just cut the budget." "Just do it like they did it in the old days." Yes, people, if it were that easy, they'd have done it already. More Bond films means more cash, so why not? The problem is this. They can make a film that looks like a Bond film, completes the checklist of things that need to be in a Bond film, has a score that makes it sound like a Bond film, and still end up with something that isn't a Bond film. Yes, it looked so easy back in the day (even though it never was). But surely, another TMWTGG or AVTAK wouldn't satisfy anyone in 2024. It's going to cost time to make a film that pleases most people.
And even if they haven't even started yet, so what? Is the world coming to an end? Are over two dozen Bond films not enough? Are we postponing big decisions until we've gotten word of a new Bond project? Some of this "owe" stuff creeps me out.
I'm just saying that I'd love to know we're they're at. What are their expectations for the foreseeable future of their franchise. And if they still have the desire to proceed.
And having 'James Bond will return' in the credits means very little.
In fact, a short message of good will towards the fans wouldn't be something I'd feel owed, I'd actually feel pleasantly surprised and appreciative. But yes, it's their call, not mine, not ours. As they are, they are worse than Rusty in Ocean's 12: "Look - it's not in my nature to be mysterious. But I can't talk about it, and I can't talk about why."
Total radio silence for years, and selling bow ties for small animals, and themed socks just don't cut it for me, I'm sorry. It's not that I'm impatient. If they want to wait 10 years to do it right, I'll get behind that decision. I'm just not that confident in their resolve, these days. I actually think the entire industry doesn't know their heads from their tails at this point.
I just find that back in, say, 92, I had no one to talk about the angst Bond fans felt during that particular break and reinvention. And now that we do have forums to talk about it, we can't, because of a "we are not owed taboo/dogma" policy. It's just not about that. It's mainly about not knowing were our beloved franchise goes next, and if the producers are still eager for the reinvention and risk.
On my part, I hope they are gagging for it.
Sadly my other top picks Aidan Turner and seemingly Theo James (unfortunately) are perhaps too old now
I can't see the next Bond being over 35ish, at this moment, given the lack of progress on Bond 26.
My feelings exactly. And thanks for your kind words earlier, my friend. Cheers.
If EoN were to roll right now , Theo James is the obvious choice, shoulder with him is Leo Suter; as time moves forward, Suter becomes the stronger choice.
I don’t think they could go wrong with either.
EON will never satisfy everyone in any respect. I would say though that updates and transparency will please more people than leaving all in the dark, which will please none. Value in engaging is by generating buzz, exciting people beyond just the Bond fandom. That's why people snatched at the ATJ rumour and by announcing to world Bond 26 is coming, you immediately whet the appetite and put Bond if not on the public's mind, then in their subconscious. And I also don't see the harm in sharing beyond this people will hate, which they will do with everything. Unless they really haven't started at all and not thought about Bond in 4 years (not even strategically waiting), which they probably have good reason to stay shut.
Because if EON come out with concrete news, these moaners will moan about the past: "B26 should have been casted before, BB should have acted quicker," against the moaning of the present and future (on top of the past) we're getting now, "Oh, BB's wants to kill the series, nothing's happening, the film will never come." Surely one type is obviously better than the other?
"We don't owe anything" is an unacceptable reason because number one its false (no entertainer that relies on a fanbase can say that) and number two it probably isn't the reason for no news. As a defence against people asking about updates I think it quite poor. There's nothing concrete to update, or it could jeopardise EON's position with certain players, or they don't want the limelight is a better reason.
The thing is that people are getting frustrated (no matter how nonsensically) and some word would alleviate that. I remember when it was claimed filming was two years away in 2022. People are getting annoyed that the deadline was missed. An explanation like "the strike slowed us down" is again probably enough to placate a lot of people.
OK, here's what I'm on about. EON believe they owe fans and moviegoers a good film (or their best effort). And I mean that's what all production companies owe moviegoers. That is, it potentially could be better to produce a cash trap and put low effort and generate hype but they don't do that because the public are owed better than that. And I'm sure fans can appreciate that.
Now EON could leave radio silence until B26. But that won't happen will it? They'll do things like trailers and interviews so they communicate the film's completion/near completion and people can get excited. EON could wait until publicity to announce anything about the film. But that also won't happen. Upon the completion of casting they'll also be publicity and people will get excited etc.
So my point is that why doesn't this extend to things such as saying "Casting has started for Bond 26," or "story ideas are being developed." The announcement of work being done, at least to start, gets people excited. Most were excited about Bond news in 2022. A projected release date, like BB did then, fires people up and gets the message across that Bond will return.
I want to reiterate that I am not claiming that EON should speed up production of the film because they owe to the fans. I'm saying that if some sort of positive announcement hasn't appeared when they have one, that's a gaffe because #1 it helps them and #2 they are fufilling the "please fans" checklist that all production companies have.
All EoN needs to do is cast a new actor; release a trailer; unveil the poster, and the buzz will grow and grow. Authentically and genuinely.
There’s zero value engaging with fans. Apart from die hards, no one out there is feeling shafted because they don’t know what’s happening on B26. Nobody.
I do feel a tad concerned, and would like to address it in a forum. Isn't that what being a fan is?
@Univex , I was replying to @Reflsin2bourbons .
Oh I didn’t realise it was on Netflix; will give it a go.
But you say it’s ‘unacceptable’ as if you have a choice to do anything else but accept it. When you can’t do anything about a situation, and it’s something pretty trivial anyway, I find it’s best not to worry about it. It’ll come when it comes.
Frankly, I don't trust every "fan" to have their act together.
@Univex
Please, my friend, let's continue this conversation. I'm all for it. :-)
Oh, alrighty then :) But I do think we should indent the term "to owe" from the conversation, as we'll be driving circles around it.
The word "fan" derives from "fanatic", so, no, I suppose most of fans will be a tad obsessed ;)
As for keeping the discussion up, how do we really feel about their silence? Do we think that they are really taking a break? Watching the industry unfold from afar and thinking it through? To keep it on the topic, do we think there are really no suitable candidates? Or maybe there's no shade of a script or main idea yet, and so, no castings going on? Would they prolongue an hiatus for this long because of Michael's health and age? Are they changing their inside gears? Are they just collecting the fruits of their works and thinking about retiring? I suppose many of us have ideas on this. And some will have some sort of inside knowledge or better guesses. So, this is what I propose to discuss, probably in the "where does Bond goes next" topic, of course. But here we could talk about the lack of young leading men in the cinema industry nowadays, perhaps.
So, who are the best leading men nowadays, in their 30s and 40s? Who here is in the veins of what's come before, particularly carisma wise. Who has it? Are we facing a crisis in that department? Would Indy be shot today without the carisma of Ford? Would Bond thrive without Connery's or Craig's? Or even Pierce's screen presence? Is Cruise really the last film star? And why? Where have all the men gone, to quote Dame Shirley ;)
Something to keep the week going:
;)
Cheers fellas, let's keep the discussion going.
I don't think there's a lack of candidates at all. As I said, it's not a case of waiting around for that 'chosen one' to come along, and it never has been. It's a case where there is a very large pool of actors available to them and they have to pick the best one out of that. Similarly I don't think they'd wait around for any actor to age into the part.
As for why there's been this 'delay' (at least from our end) I suspect it's for a few reasons. The writer's strike and the state of the film industry nowadays haven't helped, and as I've said many times it's not clear exactly where they should go creatively for the next film. But it's quite telling that EON have taken a more active role in the recent non-film Bond projects (in this case the reality show and the new video game) which implies to me they're thinking about the future of this franchise and are working on it. The game itself incidentally is about Bond getting his 00 status, and thematically that'd be very much a 'new beginning' approach. That concept might not translate into a film, but for a game released before a new era it's significant and appropriate.
We also have to keep in mind it really is a pivotal point for Bond behind the scenes. BB and MGW are in their 60s and 80s respectively. They won't be helming this franchise forever, and for two producers who have run it for so long I suspect making sure everything and everyone within EON is lined up for the new era is a priority.
Basically it could be part of a loose but long term plan - get the game released, get the pieces for the new film together in the meantime, and drum up excitement for Bond (especially for new audiences). I could be wrong, but it's likely as simple as that.
;)
I don't have the link handy, but there was an industry article that did a deep dive on the state of Amazon / MGM and pointed out one the major problems is that they hired a bunch of execs who only have experience working on $20-$30 million dollar projects, and much to Amazon / MGM's surprise, they haven't instantly worked out how to run projects with $200-$300 million budgets, and it shows.
BB/MGW are right to wait until Amazon/MGM prove that they have competent execs who can steer a big budget project.
My thoughts exactly. Probably infighting over Prime distribution.
I would be more concerned about the movies going in the wrong direction than casting the wrong guy at the moment.
Both are equally valid concerns, aren't they? I'm not sure what you mean by "the wrong direction", but in theory, yes, the movies going the wrong way with the right guy or the movies going the right way with the wrong guy, are both things we'd rather not see happen, surely.