Big Mi6 James Bond film ranking game - A few stats!

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  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,197
    Slazenger7 wrote: »
    I had DAF at #14. It’s a guilty pleasure watch for me, despite all the silly low-water stuff and confusing plotholes and editing, I enjoy it for what it is. I like the Vegas setting and the whole vibe, the soundtrack is brilliant, Connery makes a better performance than in YOLT. It’s a movie I tend to return to when I just want some fun and not pay too much attention.

    That's a good point. It has an easy-going kind of quality that makes it a perfect watch after a busy day.
  • Vinther1991Vinther1991 Denmark
    edited August 8 Posts: 64
    I ranked this dead last, though in retrospect I think I might prefer it to my number 24 slightly, it is close though.
    I don't think it is fair to judge DAF for not being a proper sequel to OHMSS, it goes for something else, a camp direction. Unfortunately it just stinks at what it is doing. The movie feels like they just slapped a bunch of scenes and ideas together and called it a day. It is so uninspired and confusing with very little creativity. Looking at the list of talented people involved here they pretty much all did their worst work this time:
    Richard Maibaum
    Ted Moore
    Ken Adam
    Sean Connery
    Guy Hamilton
    We could almost add John Barry as well

    The Shirley Bassey song is brilliant though and there are a few solid scenes early on, I like how they insert Bond into the diamond smuggling chain.

    Stupid film with terrible acting. You would almost think it is inspired by Casino Royale '67.

    23rd Diamonds are Forever - My ranking: 25th
    24th The World is not Enough - My ranking: 10th
    25th Die Another Day - My ranking: 23rd
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,662
    DAF: The sly tone is delicious - particularly when Wint & Kidd's theme creeps in. How playful is Connery in this? A far cry from the frostiness in DN - love how we get a contrasting performance from him.

    Bond clangs one mud bath guard into the other like bowling pins. Eerie and ultimately grandiose theme song from Bassey. Franks fight is awesome and raw. Slumber's strange, sitting there in silence as Bond waits for his brudder's remains. Circus Circus looks like a lot of fun. Tiffany's reaction to everything is hilarious.

    Metz and Hergersheimer are a hoot. Moon buggy and satellite are cool designs. Scaling the Whyte House with the piton is such a great moment, Vegas lights shimmering in the background. Whyte House superimposed onto a real building, complete with elevator going up the side is well done/seamless. Nice vehicles on display. Gadgets are sparse and small. Characters are memorable and dialogue so quotable. Solid performances by all. Oil rig climax is loathed by many but I find it entertaining.

    Feel like watching this one now!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,247
    I had the film at #23 too.

    DAF is a film that I can forgive for its rampant silliness, simply because it's never boring. The script is ludicrous from start to finish and in its execution, DAF underestimates our intelligence too. BUT, Barry elevates this film to something it wasn't supposed to be. Adam's sets are, once again, a pure triumph. I don't hate Charles Gray as Blofeld. Willard Whyte is a fun character. So is Sid Haid and his boys. Some scenes, while outrageously stupid, are delightful, including pretty much everything with Wint and Kidd. DAF has my favourite theme song and great OTT work by Binder.

    Alas, the competition is what it is, and this one finishes in my top 5. The oil rig and love boat climaxes belong in a Derek Flint film. Jill was great in the pilot episode of Batman but annoys the hell out of me as Tiffany Case. (That scene at the gas pump is hard to watch.) And while it's good to see Connery back, I'd prefer it if it wasn't making mud pies.
  • Posts: 2,171
    I maintain two trains of thought about DAF:

    As a sequel/follow up to OHMSS, its horrendous.

    As its own stand alone Bond film... eh, its pretty alright actually, for a lot of the aforementioned reasons. Wint & Kidd, Bassey, Barry, Willard 'BAJA?????' Whyte, Claus Hergershimer etc.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,007
    DAF was #20 for me. It has its moments, its strengths are very strong, the characters are outstanding and amongst my favorites, but as others mentioned, it's pretty poor when you consider it was an OHMSS follow-up, plus its action and finale are, mostly, massively underwhelming.

    Regardless of its placement though, I don't hate it, and I'm always down to rewatch it.
  • Posts: 4,273
    I think the problem with trying to see DAF as a sequel to OHMSS is that it was never intended to be that as such. It's something of a soft reboot in a weird way (yes, Bond tracks down Blofeld at the beginning, but that can easily be read as him simply tracking down his long time enemy, or indeed avenging Tracy).

    I actually think they do a good job with it. As much as a direct sequel to OHMSS is something fans tend to discuss, I'm not sure if it was worth doing, especially given the underwhelming reception. Perhaps if Lazenby had returned it might have worked, but I think it was best trying to wipe the slate as clean as possible with Connery's return.

    I'll also say this on a weird note - one thing I can say about this film is that I find it funnier than CR'67. Unlike that film all the jokes and witty lines actually land. It also does a weirdly good job of being camp/humorous without quite drifting into parody.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited August 8 Posts: 24,247
    @Creasy47
    Its "rewatchability" is, indeed, higher than for some other Bond films. One of the reasons I placed TWINE behind DAF is that while DAF has lower lows, it also has higher highs and those matter most. Those highpoints are, in fact, such that I never mind sitting down for DAF, while TWINE demands that I'm "in the right mood".
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited August 8 Posts: 41,007
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @Creasy47
    Its "rewatchability" is, indeed, higher than for some other Bond films. One of the reasons I placed TWINE behind DAF is that while DAF has lower lows, it also has higher highs and those matter most. Those highpoints are, in fact, such that I never mind sitting down for DAF, while TWINE demands that I'm "in the right mood".

    Yeah, sometimes an installment can be pretty weak in some key areas and yet the positives still outweigh the negatives. Hell, as low as it's ranked, I'd gladly rewatch it any day of the week over other, "stronger" films.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,800
    007HallY wrote: »
    but I think it was best trying to wipe the slate as clean as possible with Connery's return.

    But that made it worst, because it's not until in 1981 where they've acknowledge Tracy again when no one's asking for it at the time in the first place, what's the point of cleaning the slate when they would address it again 10 years later?
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,714
    I'm one of the two who put it at number six. It does exactly what it's sets out to do, it's very funny, and has terrific music and is brilliantly cast. Criticisms of it tend to boil down to "instead of making this kind of movie, they should have made a different kind of movie", and I just don't see why that should be the case.
  • Posts: 4,273
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    but I think it was best trying to wipe the slate as clean as possible with Connery's return.

    But that made it worst, because it's not until in 1981 where they've acknowledge Tracy again when no one's asking for it at the time in the first place, what's the point of cleaning the slate when they would address it again 10 years later?

    Well, technically she was referenced again in TSWLM in '77.

    Like I said, it's a soft reboot more than a completely wipe the slate clean film (hence why I added 'as much as possible'). I can very much see why they opted for that over a direct sequel/revenge flick.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,160
    Prior to my last viewing of DAF, I had it ranked somewhere between 15-20.
    But then I realized it’s a movie I would much rather watch than any of the Brosnan of Craig entries, anytime.
    Despite its campiness and silliness, I can’t find one thing I outright dislike about it (except maybe the lackluster oil rig sequence), and that has a lot to do with Hamilton’s penchant for quirkiness (both characters and situations).
    Enjoyment is also greatly enhanced by Mankiewicz’s witty dialogue and Barry’s outstanding score.
    Number 13 for me.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,007
    I dig the comedy and campiness to it as well. It's not a film I ever remotely take seriously, which makes it even more of a riotous blast whenever I revisit it.
  • Vinther1991Vinther1991 Denmark
    Posts: 64
    It may be campy and silly, but it is also really boring I think, there is no sense of stakes, danger or tension. The humor also mostly falls flat.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,800
    It may be campy and silly, but it is also really boring I think, there is no sense of stakes, danger or tension. The humor also mostly falls flat.

    The only danger in there was the scene of Bond being nearly cremated.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,007
    It may be campy and silly, but it is also really boring I think, there is no sense of stakes, danger or tension. The humor also mostly falls flat.

    This series has some boring duds in my opinion but DAF absolutely isn't one of them. I can see why the more comedic aspects wouldn't be for everyone though.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,247
    I thought about that the other day. Boredom is a bigger sin than silliness, IMO. Probably why I prefer DAD (which is silly but rarely boring) over TWINE (which has dull moments on top of silly ones, IMO), why I love MR (which is never boring), and why DAF is not the worst Bond film for me.

    Don't get me wrong. I won't approve of all silliness provided things never get boring. (The last film on my list may surprise some...) But take CR67. I'm not treating that one as a bonafide Bond film, evidently. And boy is . it . silly! And yet, every scene has something to offer that I don't find dull. That's probably why I can still enjoy watching it as a "non-Bond" Bond film.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,007
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I thought about that the other day. Boredom is a bigger sin than silliness, IMO. Probably why I prefer DAD (which is silly but rarely boring) over TWINE (which has dull moments on top of silly ones, IMO), why I love MR (which is never boring), and why DAF is not the worst Bond film for me.

    Don't get me wrong. I won't approve of all silliness provided things never get boring. (The last film on my list may surprise some...) But take CR67. I'm not treating that one as a bonafide Bond film, evidently. And boy is . it . silly! And yet, every scene has something to offer that I don't find dull. That's probably why I can still enjoy watching it as a "non-Bond" Bond film.

    I feel the same way. I don't want nonstop slapstick and general goofball antics, but the number one biggest sin for me in this series is being boring.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 1,036
    Suave, sophisticated, gentleman spy with exotic locations DAF is not. Dead last for me. A sleazy, low budget feel that dials the campiness up to 11 in all the wrong ways. I would gladly agree to never watch ever again.
  • Vinther1991Vinther1991 Denmark
    Posts: 64
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I thought about that the other day. Boredom is a bigger sin than silliness, IMO. Probably why I prefer DAD (which is silly but rarely boring) over TWINE (which has dull moments on top of silly ones, IMO), why I love MR (which is never boring), and why DAF is not the worst Bond film for me.

    Don't get me wrong. I won't approve of all silliness provided things never get boring. (The last film on my list may surprise some...) But take CR67. I'm not treating that one as a bonafide Bond film, evidently. And boy is . it . silly! And yet, every scene has something to offer that I don't find dull. That's probably why I can still enjoy watching it as a "non-Bond" Bond film.

    I can tolerate a bit of boredom. I think a bigger sin than being boring is just not being interesting in the first place. Elektra King is inherently interesting. DAF has nothing that interests me. On top of that I still find it kind of boring. It takes more than camp to keep me entertained, and DAF doesn't even contain the good kind of camp, unlike something as Moonraker does.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,163
    DAF placed at 24th for me. In a one off, bizarre entry where nothing is taken seriously and the humour is turned up as high as it possibly can in a Bond film, then DAF is unique. It's always a film I enjoy when I watch it, but I'm glad they only went this far once.
    Connery's return probably saved the series from descending into an abyss, after the lackluster reception of OHMSS, EON needed a hit, and DAF was a hit.
    The problem I have is that it's nothing like the early Connery hits, DN, FRWL, GF, this is almost a completely different character, but played by the same actor.
    Connery looks a lot older in this film, and has lost his physique, this is not James Bond that I know and love. The film is daft and preposterous, but it's supposed to be, like later entries like MR or DAD, if you can overlook the silliness and go along for the ride, it's really quite enjoyable. The humour of DAF whilst dated is still amusing to the juvenile in me. It's lack of feeling like a James Bond film and the silliness are what bring this film and others like it to be placed at the lower end of my ranking. They're still very entertaining, just not my idea of a great Bond film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,247
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I thought about that the other day. Boredom is a bigger sin than silliness, IMO. Probably why I prefer DAD (which is silly but rarely boring) over TWINE (which has dull moments on top of silly ones, IMO), why I love MR (which is never boring), and why DAF is not the worst Bond film for me.

    Don't get me wrong. I won't approve of all silliness provided things never get boring. (The last film on my list may surprise some...) But take CR67. I'm not treating that one as a bonafide Bond film, evidently. And boy is . it . silly! And yet, every scene has something to offer that I don't find dull. That's probably why I can still enjoy watching it as a "non-Bond" Bond film.

    I can tolerate a bit of boredom. I think a bigger sin than being boring is just not being interesting in the first place. Elektra King is inherently interesting. DAF has nothing that interests me. On top of that I still find it kind of boring. It takes more than camp to keep me entertained, and DAF doesn't even contain the good kind of camp, unlike something as Moonraker does.

    I don't find Elektra that interesting. They showered her with drama, but it never really converged. Issues with her dad and M, her relationship with Renard, her confused psyche, her ultimate goal, ... The parts are all there, but there's no whole.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited August 11 Posts: 7,197
    Sir Rog is the next 007 to lose an entry in this contest, his lowest ranked Bond adventure on average is our #22:

    A VIEW TO A KILL (1985)
    Directed by John Glen

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    "(...) still bungling in the dark."

    Another swansong that turns out to be the least-liked entry of an actor's tenure, AVTAK joins DAD as the only other entry that didn't make it into a single top 10.

    Unlike DAD though, this was a close call because Rog's final outing did receive one 11th spot. Additionally, there were also one 13th spot and two 15th's.

    Ten bottom 5's were counted, amongst which five 22nd places, but not a single last place. That makes AVTAK the lowest ranked participant without being someone's least favourite entry.

    No-one really seems to outright dislike it, but no-one really seems to consider it a top entry either.

    AVTAK received a total of 80 points.
  • Posts: 4,273
    First Bond movie I ever watched funnily enough. Again, it’s a film with its positives - Walken and Jones are great as Zorin and May Day (genuinely think Zorin has one of the best backstories of any Bond villain - it’s ridiculous but really works in the context of the film), the title song is a highlight, Macnee is good, and Moore as usual is great. I think the issue with it is it’s not a very energetic film. The action/fight sequences feel a bit subdued, the plot despite updating GF doesn’t feel very fresh, and there’s just a lack of creative vigour in the filmmaking. Moore’s age, while not major, is something felt given the use of obvious stunt doubles and him not being able to leap around as he could do even two years prior.

    Still, it’s a good watch. Not a top tier Bond movie for me, but I always get a lot out of it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,247
    I had this one at #22.

    I liked the film very much when I was a young lad. I didn't need much to be excited back then. But I have since grown extremely frustrated with the poor script:

    - PTS: Bond finds something => ski action. That's it. Fun? Sure, but cheap.
    - A leak in Zorin's company => let's NOT focus on the microchips, let's focus on cheating at horse racing.
    - I repeat: the bad guy cheats at horse racing. Yes, MI6 has to get involved. Next time you illegally download a movie, the world's greatest intelligence services will send two of their best to investigate you as well. Just saying. Priorities.
    - Hey, we're in luck. By pure script coincidence, an investigation into steroids also leads to some microchips. Unrelated, but nice. I was worried about wasting my time here.
    - We meet a guy from San Francisco at Zorin's party. Naturally, that's our next lead.
    - So, we're finally going to focus on microchips? No, pumping sea water into pipes. Or something. Hey, the KGB is involved too.
    - Nice, we're now in GF. People pay Zorin money for Main Strike. One of them says no. He's gone. Meanwhile, Bond and the girl, still looking for clues about sea water pumping installations, once again accidentally return to the microchip plot. And some action ensues. And the movie is over.

    I think this plot is terrible! And for every good part in the film (Barry, the theme song, Walken, May Day), there's a horrible, poorly named French nasal stereotype of a P.I, a horribly cartoonish evil German scientist, the frustratingly bad names 'Zorin', 'Aubergine' and 'Scarpine', more police cars crashing into police cars, a cab driver straight out of a slapstick comedy, and so on.

    I actually like Tanya Roberts' appearance, I'm cool with Roger, and Patrick Mcnee is a fine addition as well. But this film doesn't have its [bleep] together. It needed a lot more work before it could be released.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,800
    A View To A Kill was ranked at #20 for me because one thing is for certain that this is the proof that a score can lift and improve the film despite of its quality, the San Francisco scenes, for how duff they were became tolerable to watch due to Barry's score.

    I can acknowledge the danger behind this film, I would say is an improvement over Octopussy, I can sense the danger that Bond was in, it's tense like when he's underwater recording Max Zorin and his Operation Mainstrike, Bond analyzing the cheque in Paris when he met Dr. Carl Mortner, or the elevator scenes and the Golden Gate Bridge Fight, it's a level up of tense and danger.

    The big elephant in the room were the writing of the characters and Moore's age, no problem about their acting, they did fine and did mostly what the script had demanded them to do, the problem was how their characters were written, I could make this case for Stacey Sutton and Max Zorin, both are over the top despite of the grounded intentions of the characters, Max Zorin's manic behaviour contradicts his intimidating persona (that laughing while machine gunning the people in the mine is the example), and of course, we know Stacey Sutton already, then there's Chuck Lee, I don't get the reason why Felix was not in this film? What's the reason?

    Then yes, most of the scenes that happened in the middle were quite forgettable and drab, the Beach Boys theme, and the fact that this film was almost not relevant in Bond or in MI6 for that matter, like it's an obvious CIA mission and Britain was not related to it in anyway? Why they've interfered? I know about the microchip found in the PTS, but the MI6 could've given it to the CIA as their job, it's almost an American mission, so I don't know why Bond should've been involved with it in the first place, it's the same as Felix Leiter and the CIA interfering in the British affairs.
  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    edited August 22 Posts: 2,160
    #19 for me.
    A great Barry score, Walken having the time of his life and not much else.
    Walken’s can’t believe I’m about to snuff it last laugh is brilliant acting, definitely the film’s highlight for me.
  • edited August 9 Posts: 4,273
    I'm kind of in two minds about the plot. It's utter nonsense when you really think about it. It at least goes on these weird tangents about Zorin cheating at horse racing (why poor Monsieur Aubergine - real name by the way - had to get murdered for conveying his suspicions about this to Bond in the context of the story I don't know). At the same time I kind of understand why it's structured like that. It's a very typical Bond villain thing to cheat at something in an unnecessary way, and it's often a means of getting Bond into the story more effectively and then build up to their dastardly scheme (ie. GF, the MR novel). Unfortunately poor Monsieur Aubergine has to die in order for May Day to conveniently recognise Bond later on (and of course it gives us an action sequence).

    It's also worth saying Bond plots can fall apart if you think about them too much... still, it's one of the more tenuous plots in Bond, but that's something not uncommon to the Moore films.
  • Vinther1991Vinther1991 Denmark
    Posts: 64
    This comes in at #22 for me too. I have been mostly agreeing with these placements so far, except TWINE. AVTAK is in a weird spot, it is not completely incompetent as the three films I rank below it, but it has very little to offer as well, it kind of drags a lot for most of the first 2/3, the action is let down by the obvious use of stunt double (there is a shot where Bond just runs through a crowd and they used an obvious stunt double, it is embarrassing). The tone of the film is also all over the place constantly jumping from campy and ridiculous to super serious and edgy. Highlights are Max Zorin, the Golden Gate finale, the soundtrack and especially the title track.
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