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Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by Moore being an expressionistic actor? The differences in the acting styles of the Bonds interests me.
You don't understand, Bond, showing here that he's a human and not always as confident as he is, the man could've been caught and killed anytime soon.
He's making it close to the Bond of the books as much as possible, in terms of psychology.
It's the most realistic portrayal of the character, he showed fear and anxiety, that's natural because he's human, not a calculated killing machine, OHMSS was about feelings and emotions after all.
It's the same thing as falling in love and proposing to a woman, when he's a womanizer, it's a genuine feeling.
I liked that he could show emotions as raw as those, than some other Bond Girl out there who can't even do a facial expression when needed ;) (I won't give a name who), more like a mannequin or an AI robot reading script lines.
I could buy her 'serious' acting with some musicians in some film in 1984, because again, they're not actors either 😅, but anyway, that film is a flop (saving for one song that became a hit).
I don't get it either, personally, for me, he had played the character one note and often raised his eyebrows 😅 like what I'm always saying, he had a built in persona when playing a character in films or TV, he can't stray on that, and when he does, it's almost unconvincing and fake, don't get me wrong, I liked Moore as a human being, but not as an actor, and definitely not as Bond, the man was just playing himself and the same usual characteristics and personality, he's like a Dwayne Johnson type of acting: all the same, and people say that Connery was acting himself in films, while there's a truth to it, but not all films did he acted like himself, unlike Moore, where in every film, all I can see is Roger Moore.
Moore was a good Bond for the type of films made during his era. Light comedy with a bit of seriousness thrown in here and there. The occasional raised eyebrow and stern look, but nothing especially fearful or threatening. He was not the kind of Bond played by Connery, Lazenby, Dalton, and Craig. Brosnan, whom I did not care for as Bond, was in between. He had the potential to be a better Bond than he was. He was Remington Steele with a different name. Since Bond, he has become a more versatile actor.
I agree!
No, I get it well enough. Lazenby's a one note actor who can only do basic emotion at a time, little nuance. It's a very simplistic reaction and not really in line with the character.
Bond should be on his toes at that moment. Sure, he's on edge and afraid, certainly vulnerable, but he's not a petrified little boy. There'd be some sort of instinct that'd momentarily kick in if he thought he were in immediate danger. Dalton knew that well enough how to play that. I don't think Lazenby does. It's far too big.
Expressionistic doesn't mean better or worse compared to anyone else. Connery was a bit more reserved in how he showed emotion when he played Bond, keeping it a bit under the surface. Craig's the same, at least in his first four. Moore goes a bit bigger with his performance (you can see it in the eyebrow raises). Just a slightly different approach.
Personally I think he was a far more nuanced actor than even he made himself out to be. I can't imagine Connery playing some of his scenes as well as he did.
I think I know what you mean. And I agree with what you said before about Roger being good at showing fear. Despite his Bond's reputation as irreverent and unflappable, I think he brought an underrated humanity to the character.
I don't doubt Connery could've played Bond a bit more human, it's just his films rarely allowed him to do so, especially as they went on. Perhaps he wouldn't have become as bored with the role if he'd been allowed to stretch himself a bit more.
From how I've read it in the books, that's how literary Bond always does, he always thought that he can't make it, always afraid of the situations he's in and sometimes even agonizing if his decision of entering such a thing was right, acting frustrated and was even impulsive, sometimes, he's clearly naive and immature (again, psychology wise), and what Lazenby had shown was realism, not an emotion most paper cut movie characters do.
I know he's an agent, but he had also successfully balanced the fear of being a human being in a realistic way, I mean this is the same film where he had got married and proposed with a woman, emotions need to be felt.
Petrified Little Boy? I think what Bond (Moore) had shown in the swamp (jungle) in Octopussy with that snake is the perfect example of this phrase, along with his shaking, and at least Lazenby never showed any of that shaking, he's still calm while being anxious, hopeless (frustration) and thinking of a plan, for me, it's more of an introspective case.
He had shown vulnerability, not coolness that in situations like that would be unrealistic, and he had shown that instinct in the Ski Chase, especially when he had lost his ski blade and skid on one foot alone, so that instinct was still there.
It's just in that situation, he had no escape, he's almost cornered, he had nothing to rely into, he had no idea where to go, he didn't trust any of the people around him because one of them could be one of Blofeld's men, his mind was in complete shambles, he's in panic, which showed Bond's limitations that he like any other human being, there are times where he couldn't keep his cool, and he's not that much fearful so it's not out of character either, actually Moore's fear in that Octopussy is more of an out of character, he's like a scared little child and even shaking when he's in an environment where he could hide and he could use some things to match his resourcefulness, and had some gadgets he could rely himself into.
I get Dalton, but again, the scenarios were different, he had never been in such a cautious and dangerous scenario like Lazenby does, it's almost as dangerous as like stepping on a land mine, he had never been cornered by the villains, where the villains had an upper hand against him, where he's frustrated and nothing could he rely on, Dalton's Bond had never been put in that case before, I'd argue.
Again, the portrayal of emotions depends upon a scenario or a scene, there are different scenarios where the emotions needs to be shown varies (there are different types of emotional portrayal), in this case, the emotions portrayed by Lazenby was needed and fits in with the scene, it depends upon a scene, the emotional portrayal can't be generalized by different scenes, because each scene demanded different types of showing emotions, there are scenes where the emotions should be suppressed, there are scenes where the emotions needed were subtle, and there are scenes where one needs to show an appropriate emotion, feeling or action, and in that scene in OHMSS, it's appropriate and fits in with the scenario.
Yeah completely agree: if you look at the Battle of the Bonds in ‘83, Connery is playing a superman Bond who isn’t affected or worried by anything, whereas Moore’s has moments of fear and tension as well as a surprisingly warm romantic side. It’s not a hugely deep portrayal of course, but there are more elements of depth there than Connery’s.
Which is a shame: as you say, Connery was more than capable of that but got rather stuck on the cool, superman side of things.
That’s not quite how the literary Bond thinks (and even then there’s a difference in what a character thinks and what they show). He could be out of his element, unsure of himself, or on edge, but usually there’s a ‘grit your teeth and keep going’ element to the character in those situations.
Lazenby’s acting in the scene isn’t realistic either I’d argue. It’s way too big - the open mouth, the wide eyes. His Bond literally s*its himself. It’s how a bad actor would show fear. It’s not how Bond often shows fear either. Again, he comes off as a scared child, not a man trying to run for his life in that moment.
Not saying Bond shouldn’t come off as desperate in that scene (it’s a tense scene after all), but I think a better actor wouldn’t have exaggerated that moment to that extent. I think with Connery, Moore, or Dalton there’d have been that ‘grit your teeth and keep going’ element I described. But no, I’ve always found it one of those weird moments with Lazenby’s performance that never quite worked.
It may not work for you, but it worked for me and for some people, really, it's a matter of subjectiveness, like what I've said, emotions was needed in this film, and that particular scene demanded something like that (Peter Hunt directed him that way), so, it's needed, they wanted to show Bond as a desperate man in that scene, for the danger to work, and of course, to make us buy the relationship of Bond and Tracy, us she saved Bond's bacon, and out of desperation, Bond found hope, if Bond was at his little cool, then Tracy saving Bond wouldn't sound as strong as it is, because he could get out of that situation without even her help, because he could still keep his cool without any hint of anxiousness, as that emotion and feeling worked as Bond would propose later to Tracy which was out of character for him, so it needs to work, and for it to work, Bond needs to be in a situation where the relationship could peak (which is the skating rink scene).
For me, Lazenby played it realistically, in my view, and it's not exaggeration, again, it's a tense scene and also, the climate in that film was cold (it's winter) and Irma Bunt along with Blofeld's men were anywhere and almost closer in the same circle where Bond was, it's an urgent situation, actually, put any person in there and they would feel the same the feelings and showed same emotions that Lazenby showed in that scene, I don't see him exaggerating in that scene, if anything, it's what a man could show if given in real life situations, they would be scared and nervous, but to a right amount, just like what Lazenby does, and remember, he'd also came from skiing and escaping Blofeld's lair was difficult and took a toll on him, physically, so he's literally tired along with anxiousness, desperation and frustration without no one to rely into and nowhere to go, he's almost cornered, he came from a strenuous activity then being chased then gone hiding, that's such a dangerous scene, and yes, this is coming from someone who disliked Moore's scared acting in Octopussy in that jungle with a snake scene, and for me, that's the real silly acting, he's shaking and looking paranoid while leaning on the ground, that's really out of character for Bond (but again, there are many out of character moments in that film), Lazenby could still keep his calm while showing a hint of scare, fear and anxiety, and act like a man, Moore failed to do it in that Octopussy jungle scene, he looked like immature boy got scared and hid under the bed from his angry parents, now that's exaggeration.
I've read and observed the literary Bond many times (been envisioning the scenes from the books in my mind everytime I'm reading them), and the character could be in panic some times, sometimes showing his desperation and a bit naive and childish when facing danger, he can't even keep his cool in some scenes, I'm hearing his expressions or voice tones through the dialogues in my mind while reading, when he's at the sword's edge, he would be in panic, agonizing about his decisions and accepting death as it is, he's not the man whose holding his cool like in the films.
I never got the sense the literary Bond was quite like that in a dangerous situation. He’s not quite as unflappable as movie Bond is in some of the films, but he’s definitely a man who’s used to looking death in the face as it were.
Moore in OP works better for me. He’s desperate with little time to spare, but the way he confronts the General is quite firm. I agree that the scene in OHMSS isn’t that well directed in many ways. I think it’s a case where Bond would be trying not to show fear. Sometimes a moment like that is made more impactful by underplaying. For me, the best moments of that scene is seconds later when a tired Bond sits down and just tries not to be noticed before Tracy arrives.
That's not true. You only need to watch the fight scene.
A minor detail I know, but it irked me. And since LTK has many fans here, I think it's controversial.
I don't think that's particularly true. In the books, we're in Bond's head. His internal fears and doubts are very evident to us, but probably not as obvious to an external observer. For example, when Bond gets scared on a plane (twice), he's only really mentally contemplating death. There wouldn't be a physical sign a Bond showing fear in that moment: any portrayal of this in a film would be shown as over the top.
Same in OHMSS. Bond is mentally shattered after the ski chase, due to the mental stress of being undercover and then having to leave abruptly. Firstly, Lazenby shows no stresses of being undercover. He just sees it as a huge chance to have sex. Secondly, Bond in the novel is shattered as I say, but on Christmas Eve he just looks like a drunkard. That's something perhaps Roger Moore do with his sort of wide-eyed face, or even Dalton when he's shocked by the monkey but Lazenby maybe goes overboard on the shout.
Also, I'm not sure literary Bond never tries to keep his cool. He keeps his cool for Honey's sake in Dr. No. He enrages Drax in Moonraker with his insults with the goal of making him reckless. In Goldfinger, throughout his capture, he makes quips at Oddjob and treats him like a servant. In From Russia With Love, his only show of fear was sweaty palms. Otherwise he keeps very calm to Nash as he waves his cigarette about and enacts a plan. It just boils down to being in his head to not being in his head.
It's all subjective, I've read the books and that's how I see and hear Bond, especially in the later books, it depends upon our understanding and how we envision such scenes and how do we often hear it in our minds, his nervousness also got highlighted in some tense and dangerous scenes in the short stories.
And with regards to OHMSS, it's the way it's directed, that's how Hunt directed the scenes, just like what I've said above, it's in the way he envision or perceived the scenes in the book and Bond's reactions and expressions, he'd directed Bond that way, again, read my earlier posts.
Yes, those examples are where he's cool, but again, it's not a specific danger, in Goldfinger, when he's on the saw table, he'd cursed at Goldfinger and shouted at him, unlike Bond's reaction in the film when he's strapped on the laser table, the same in You Only Live Twice while confronting Blofeld in the Castle of Death, and in the middle of ski chase in OHMSS (book), the same for when he's aiming at the sniper in TLD short story.
I'm not sure what you mean by shaking. He shifts his weight slightly as the snake passes over him. Otherwise he's pretty much frozen in place.
Of course it probably wasn't Roger's legs in the snake shots, so we can't really attach credit or blame to him either way.
I mean it's upon him laying on the ground, when he'd just made the pose, before the snake entered in.
Bond is not shaking when the snake passes over his legs in OP.
At worst his expression changes briefly when he’s aware of its presence and turns to tell it to ‘hiss off!’
I wonder if some of your Bond collection are dodgy market rip offs 😂
Maybe I should rewatch it again, that's how my memory kept them, it's been a while since I've watched it.
What's interesting is that while Moore's movies were mostly tongue-in-cheek fun, they sure have moments of pure seriousness, some of the most serious of the series. In particular, the way he killed Locke in FYEO was truly Bondian, but maybe not "Moore" Bondian. If I remember correctly, Moore didn't like that scene.
I also think of two scenes with Jaws: when Jaws followed and killed Fekkesh, and then (disguised for Carnival) when he followed Manuela into a dark alley.
I think those scenes (and maybe a few others, like Corrine's death) stand out so much because the rest of the tone of those movies doesn't fit. Not a complaint, just an observation.
I think we shouldn't underestimate Moore. Whenever I watch his later Bonds (TSWLM and onwards) closely, I'm always surprised by his range. Yes, he did the eye brow thing a lot, but he had his darker, angrier and so forth moments too, and I have never felt that he somehow didn't manage them.
Absolutely. I'd also say he showed more emotional range than Connery and I'm not sure how it'd be debatable.
DAD has several such neat moments scattered throughout the film. They are easily overlooked because we focus hard on the negatives, but I still believe that this film showed true potential in its first half. If it hadn't resorted to video game tactics in its second half, its good bits would have been able to shine a lot more.
Overall I disagree with the mentality that DAD hasn't a single redeeming element to it. I'm rather convinced it's a close-to-good Bond film. If only certain decisions, few in number but large in impact, hadn't been made.
Controversial statement over.
I never noticed that you make only one contribution per day :-).
I agree that the first half of DAD may not be perfect ("Saved by the bell" - CRINGE!!!), but I've always been saying that what makes the movie overall so bad is the fact that it totally falls apart after that somewhat promising first half. I don't know if "first half" is mathematically correct, but I'd include the scenes in Cuba/Los Organos in that better part of the movie. (PS: I also definitely LIKE the Jinx character, before anyone starts assigning blame.)
It starts going down the drain starting with Iceland. Everything there is simply ridiculous except the natural scenery. The cars (come on, who is crazy enough to bring a Ford Thunderbird to the island, not to mention equipping a Jaguar XK to use as a kind of battle tank there? Hell, no normal Icelander drives anything without heavy FWD capabilities!), the ice palace (it looks fake from beginning to end. Ken Adam would have been turning in his grave, had he been dead then - he wasn't). The stop-motion car fight on the ice. The use of the invisible car. The abysmal CGI surfing scene. The stupid use of the laser... you know where I'm going, so I'll stop here.
My damnation of DAD has always been caused by this deep disappointment that the almost fault-free "fist half" ended in such an idiotic disaster.
Personally I think most Bond films are close to great, but most also have a handful of questionable decisions which hold them back from achieving that for me
Only a few have more than that, and end up being crusified for not meeting that high standard, despite still being more entertaining than 90% of other action films
We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. When I read some peoples comments about DAD or Brosnan or DAF or Lazenby, I think "crucified" is a fair assessment of their attitude.
Anyones ideas on what constitutes a "perfect film" will obviously be very subjective, but, off the top of my head, ones I can think of where the film achieved everything I could expect of it within its genre
Shane, My Darling Clementine, Rio Bravo, Stagecoach, High Noon, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
The Good The Bad & The Ugly, Once Upon A Time In The West, A Fist Full Of Dynamite (restored, longer version)
Star Wars - A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back
Die Hard, True Lies, Mignight Run, Beverly Hills Cop, Crank, Robin Hood (Errol Flynn version)
Alien, Aliens, The Terminator, T2 Judgement Day, Mad Max, Mad Max - The Road Warrior, The Matrix
Rocky, The Fisher King, Kellys Heroes, Deliverance, Sleepy Hollow, Mr Roberts
Casablanca, Out of the Past, North By Northwest, Key Largo
The Avengers, Guardians of the Galaxy 1 & 3, Ironman 1
Groundhog Day, When Harry Met Sally, A Fish Called Wanda, Arsenic & Old Lace, Philadelphia Story, Four Weddings & A Funeral, The Wedding Crashers, The Return Of The Living Dead
Get Carter, Memento, The Godfather, Bonnie & Clyde, Jaws
Seven Samurai, Yojimbo, Harakiri, Samurai Rebellion, Three Outlaw Samurai, Fist of Fury
That Man From Rio, Leon - The Professional (longer European cut)
Oliver, My Fair Lady, The Sound Of Music, Fiddler On The Roof
And many more!