The What if thread...What if Quantum of Solace hadn’t been affected by the writers’ strike?

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  • Posts: 4,721
    Possible to triumph in one last mission despite having lost a step, a different type of hero, a different type of bravery. "Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will" Yes, some sadness at the end but positivity in a successful mission and career. Bittersweet and emotional but not sad. It would be a different style of Bond, I agree but, it does not involve anything silly...like killing him off.
  • edited March 20 Posts: 860
    patb wrote: »
    Possible to triumph in one last mission despite having lost a step, a different type of hero, a different type of bravery. "Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will" Yes, some sadness at the end but positivity in a successful mission and career. Bittersweet and emotional but not sad. It would be a different style of Bond, I agree but, it does not involve anything silly...like killing him off.

    I don’t think it was silly at all. It was a bold move. Craig wouldn’t have made the film otherwise
  • edited March 20 Posts: 5,004
    patb wrote: »
    @mtm yes, SF is so clever, it's multilayered so I agree with your comments but, at the same time, it does deal with Bond's age and his ability to operate ("It's a young man's game. Look, you've been seriously injured. There's no shame in saying you've lost a step.") . of course, due to the context of the Craig era, they have to reverse this (which is sort of weird) so he is up for the fight, ready for the next movie so they kind of quit on that theme. With a genuinely mature Bond, they could have carried that thread through with a Bond who really had lost a step and would not be getting it back (as would the actor not be getting the role back so we see a synergy between the arc of the actor and the character), leading to a better connection with the themes of age etc and possibly a greater level of empathy from the audience with the character. Ironically, PB was too young them to carry that theme (but too old now).

    To be honest, I think a lot of people overthink the whole age thing with SF. It's Bond in his early 40s (so mid-career as 007) after a really bad mission. It's pretty much Brosnan's Bond in GE (albeit with the injuries etc). He overcomes his injury and proves the new guard wrong/continues. I'm not sure why a Bond film wouldn't want Bond to overcome the fact that he's lost a step.

    Even NTTD gave us a Bond in his 50s. He wasn't young, but he was still physically capable. A Bond in his 70s is a completely different thing. I think it would have to touch upon something melancholic to work. Or be a sort of 'old man Bond' type thing, which I don't think many people really want to see in practice. I don't think it would work or get a good enough development.
  • edited March 21 Posts: 1,804
    An older Bond is possible but it would require a lot of stunt doubles and probably a young sidekick.

    You just have to make a lot of "I'm too old for this sh*t" jokes.

  • Posts: 11
    patb wrote: »
    Possible to triumph in one last mission despite having lost a step, a different type of hero, a different type of bravery. "Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will" Yes, some sadness at the end but positivity in a successful mission and career. Bittersweet and emotional but not sad. It would be a different style of Bond, I agree but, it does not involve anything silly...like killing him off.

    I don’t think it was silly at all. It was a bold move. Craig wouldn’t have made the film otherwise

    I feel like killing off Bond, if it had to happen, would only be acceptable if it was known if the movie was the series finale, which it doesn’t look like it was.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,712
    Too bad there isn't a loose end from the Dalton or Brosnan eras that could blow up and require Bond to come out of retirement to deal with it. Something like what they did in NTTD. Higher and clearer stakes.

    The only somewhat loose end was Koskov surviving at the end of TLD. Could he return or cause an issue that requires Bond to return?

    I like the idea of EON at least acknowledging the actor as he ages in the role. To ignore it or take it nowhere seems odd to me. If we do bring back Dalton or Brosnan please no "de-aging". I haven't seen a good one yet in film.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 21 Posts: 17,734
    I guess, to play devil's advocate for the idea (because I really don't want it!), if Brosnan's Bond came back then it would be quite fun to get Michelle Yeoh back to reprise Wai Lin, now in some sort of very senior role in the Chinese military or Secret Service- you could imagine her playing the role that Felix does in NTTD where she comes and finds the retired Bond to try and get him to help her with something or other (Monaco as a retirement location for BrosBond? Alps maybe?). Colin Salmon or Michael Kitchen as M- or even Samantha Bond actually, might make for a more interesting dynamic.
    It's really hard to imagine a version which wouldn't be a NTTD retread though. Maybe you go Bourne Supremacy route and have Bond being framed for something so he has to return to sort it out.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,306
    My longtime idea is the filmmakers should put together a short feature between cinema releases. More serious than the Olympics and "Happy and Glorious".

    In advance of selecting the next Bond actor, that's also the case for Brosnan or Dalton, both could have their due. A clever story told with flashes of action, something that doesn't extend to a full movie or fit into one. It also wouldn't be a spinoff or extension of the Bondiverse. It would be Bond.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 14,123
    I... and this might come as a surprise, I wouldn't want to see Dalton back. That window has long since closed. His return should have been 1991-95. And as that didn't happen, I would rather think of Dalton as he was in TLD/LTK, not see an older Dalton:Bond. We all succumb to the ravages of time, and I simply wouldn't want it reflecting that strongly in Bond.

    Now a Reunion With Death videogame taking place in 1991, that would be different matter entirely.

    As for Brosnan coming back. No, because he had his four goes. Bond needs new blood.
  • Posts: 45
    I am 100% on board with Brosnan returning. Bond comes out of retirement for one last mission.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,508
    I'd love Brosnan if it comes to that.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 773
    I wouldn't want an old Bond movie for three reasons.
    1. We've already had three movies in a row about Bond being old and outdated.
    2. Dalton is 79, Brosnan is 71. That's simply too old to convincingly do action. By comparison, Old Connery was 52 in NSNA.
    3. I prefer to remember Dalton's and Brosnan's Bonds when they were in their prime, not as has-beens coming back for one last romp.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,477
    I don't think there's a shot of this happening or that it should, but if it were to happen I would be there on opening night.

    I think that the only option would be Brosnan; he has a broader appeal.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited March 25 Posts: 7,318
    I'd be more interested in seeing Brosnan return for one last go than a Moneypenny series. I wouldn't want it to interfere with Bond 26 though, so the timing would have to be just right. Perhaps make it a series so you could spend the right amount of time catching up with other characters from his tenure, although that could come off as bad fan fiction if not done right.

    And of course, you'd run the risk of the codename theory gaining more traction if you do this concurrently with the new Bond actor's run. Probably a bad idea all around, as others have said, but I can't claim that I wouldn't be watching.
  • Posts: 1,804
    talos7 wrote: »
    I don't think there's a shot of this happening or that it should, but if it were to happen I would be there on opening night.

    I think that the only option would be Brosnan; he has a broader appeal.

    A CGI Connery is more likely than Dalton's return.
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 708
    thedove wrote: »
    Too bad there isn't a loose end from the Dalton or Brosnan eras that could blow up and require Bond to come out of retirement to deal with it. Something like what they did in NTTD. Higher and clearer stakes.

    The only somewhat loose end was Koskov surviving at the end of TLD. Could he return or cause an issue that requires Bond to return?

    I like the idea of EON at least acknowledging the actor as he ages in the role. To ignore it or take it nowhere seems odd to me. If we do bring back Dalton or Brosnan please no "de-aging". I haven't seen a good one yet in film.

    Koskov is up to something... and the film is called "Death To Spies."

    If Tim was even five years younger, I'd be all over that.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,712
    Great discussion and thoughts around an elder actor playing Bond. Brosnan seems down for it, will Amazon be interested?

    Lets move back to the last film. The producers, at Craig's insistence, decided to kill the character at the end of NTTD. This was polarizing for the fans and resulted in some difficult creative choices for the producers. Turns out it is Amazon that is left to figure things out.

    But what if...what if Craig relented and Bond didn't perish at the end of NTTD?

    What if No Time To Die had ended with Bond surviving—how would you reboot from there?

    Would love to hear how things might change if Bond survived the end of NTTD. Would the new guy get references to Vesper? Like the previous Bonds got references to Tracy? Or would the reboot require a different tack?

    Share your ideas? What if James Bond didn't die at the end of NTTD?
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,477
    The same way it's going to be now; that incarnation is finished and the next one will have a clean slate. It's just easier because Bond died.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,306
    Yeah doesn't really change the franchise and a reboot. Bond being alive doesn't allow him to return to MI6 as an agent in the same timeline. He's still been retired five years. And now saddled with a family. So there's still been a death to 007. Long live James Bond.

    The new James Bond won't live the CR story with Vesper on screen, but it should be part of his history. It's what establishes the character, and was really there all along not dependent on the 2006 film.

    Tracy is different and would not be mentioned or appear until a time when the Bond character needs to be recharged and the Blofeld trilogy plays out again. Likely in a more coherent order.

  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,977
    As stated above, doesn't change how the next era might turn out, but if they're going young with Bond 7, then I wouldn't expect references to these two characters. In my opinion it should be a rule that both Tracy and Vesper are not explicitly mentioned by name going forward, and any nods to them be in the vein of how Bond's past marriage was handled in previous films.

    Best path ahead is to not blatantly reference anything unique to the Craig era and do it without an air of ignorance or contempt, like the exploding pen quip which didn't sit well with some fans. Some minor winks, like a line of dialogue or an object in the background are welcome, but otherwise just get on with creating a new world.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,645
    No, the new Bond will be a third, new continuity. No Vesper or Tracy exists in this continuity. Give him his own hopeless love interest at some point.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,277
    It makes no difference if Craig's era had ended with Spectre. The series would still need a reboot. This is what you can't get through to these FB dimwits who think Bond dying is literally the end of the character..
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 7 Posts: 17,734
    Even on that Rest is Entertainment podcast, Marina Hyde and Richard Osman, two very intelligent, showbiz-saavy people, were saying 'how do you bring him back after he's died?' as if it's hard to figure out. You just bring him back.
    When you see all of these tabloids doing stories about who the next Bond will be, none of them are confused by the idea of another Bond film happening. It's so weird that some folk are.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,277
    mtm wrote: »
    Even on that Rest is Entertainment podcast, Marina Hyde and Richard Osman, two very intelligent, showbiz-saavy people, were saying 'how do you bring him back after he's died?' as if it's hard to figure out. You just bring him back.
    When you see all of these tabloids doing stories about who the next Bond will be, none of them are confused by the idea of another Bond film happening. It's so weird that some folk are.

    It is tiresome. I try to use the Batman example, as in Michael Keaton and Christian Bale are not the same Batman, but they are both playing the Batman character. It's like trying to explain it to a 5 year old at times.... 8-|
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 7 Posts: 17,734
    mtm wrote: »
    Even on that Rest is Entertainment podcast, Marina Hyde and Richard Osman, two very intelligent, showbiz-saavy people, were saying 'how do you bring him back after he's died?' as if it's hard to figure out. You just bring him back.
    When you see all of these tabloids doing stories about who the next Bond will be, none of them are confused by the idea of another Bond film happening. It's so weird that some folk are.

    It is tiresome. I try to use the Batman example, as in Michael Keaton and Christian Bale are not the same Batman, but they are both playing the Batman character. It's like trying to explain it to a 5 year old at times.... 8-|

    The Batman example is a good one, because at the end of Dark Knight Rises (spoilers follow for anyone who hasn't seen it) the inhabitants of Gotham City see Batman 'die' for them- that is the end of Batman, Bruce Wayne fakes his death and disappears off to another country, never to be seen again. The End. But, whaddya know, four years later there's a new Batman film with a new bloke playing him, and the events of the previous films never happened. Literally every single person in the world who saw it was able to figure out what was going on.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,277
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Even on that Rest is Entertainment podcast, Marina Hyde and Richard Osman, two very intelligent, showbiz-saavy people, were saying 'how do you bring him back after he's died?' as if it's hard to figure out. You just bring him back.
    When you see all of these tabloids doing stories about who the next Bond will be, none of them are confused by the idea of another Bond film happening. It's so weird that some folk are.

    It is tiresome. I try to use the Batman example, as in Michael Keaton and Christian Bale are not the same Batman, but they are both playing the Batman character. It's like trying to explain it to a 5 year old at times.... 8-|

    The Batman example is a good one, because at the end of Dark Knight Rises (spoilers follow for anyone who hasn't seen it) the inhabitants of Gotham City see Batman 'die' for them- that is the end of Batman, Bruce Wayne fakes his death and disappears off to another country, never to be seen again. The End. But, whaddya know, four years later there's a new Batman film with a new bloke playing him, and the events of the previous films never happened. Literally every single person in the world who saw it was able to figure out what was going on.

    Exactly. I did start off using the King Kong character as an example, but someone accused me of comparing James Bond to a giant Gorilla, therefore the Batman became the best example i could muster.. :D
  • Posts: 1,111
    It is tiresome. I try to use the Batman example, as in Michael Keaton and Christian Bale are not the same Batman, but they are both playing the Batman character. It's like trying to explain it to a 5 year old at times.... 8-|

    I don't think people are as confused about the idea of a 'reboot' as you guys think.
    I'm sure everyone understands what a reboot is - they just don't think it works with a real-world based* series like James Bond.
    It's like the Bobby shower scene in Dallas. Just because I thought it was a daft thing to do, didn't mean I was confused by it. I understand what they did.

    *and before people start giving examples of outlandish scenes in Bond films, what I mean is, it's not sci-fi.

  • edited April 7 Posts: 5,004
    Well, I'm not sure if it's possible to have a long running franchise like Bond - with multiple different actors playing said role and always set in the current time - and not reboot it at some point. Any logical semblance of continuity isn't really possible to maintain (and not overly important in the long run), and a lot of this comes down to telling new stories for the character which may require going back to an earlier point in Bond's career.

    I don't think there's any reason that can't work in a real world series like Bond. It's certainly easier than trying to get your head around different 'universes' in superhero films which draw attention to this and go into detail explaining these things.
  • edited April 7 Posts: 1,111
    I get all that. I just think calling people who didn't like the death/rebirth Bondverse thing "thickos" or five year olds is a little harsh. I think there's a lot of people who see Bond as a character in a series of long running thrillers/action films, who's never had an alternate universe before, and perhaps don't watch Marvel and sci-fi, (like me), and have a hard time with the alternate universe concept.
    Believe it of not, I don't like having Batman and King Kong used to explain James Bond. Yet I see on here, all the time . . "it's like Batman".
    Sod Batman! Sometimes I think some people won't be happy until Bond is flying round London in a cape.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 7 Posts: 17,734
    It is tiresome. I try to use the Batman example, as in Michael Keaton and Christian Bale are not the same Batman, but they are both playing the Batman character. It's like trying to explain it to a 5 year old at times.... 8-|

    I don't think people are as confused about the idea of a 'reboot' as you guys think.
    I'm sure everyone understands what a reboot is - they just don't think it works with a real-world based* series like James Bond.

    Why doesn't it, though? There's so many examples of the same role being played by different actors in different productions, I've never heard of anyone struggling with the concept before this.
    Folks can come up with all sorts of things like 'but it'll have the same theme tune which means it can't work'- someone even said that having the same producers would mean it can't work; which now obviously isn't even a problem. Just a couple of weeks ago there was a new version of Bergerac on the telly, yes, with the same theme tune: I did not see a single person questioning how he could possibly exist.
    I get all that. I just think calling people who didn't like the death/rebirth Bondverse thing "thickos" or five year olds is a little harsh. I think there's a lot of people who see Bond as a character in a series of long running thrillers/action films, who's never had an alternate universe before, and perhaps don't watch Marvel and sci-fi, (like me), and have a hard time with the alternate universe concept.
    Believe it of not, I don't like having Batman and King Kong used to explain James Bond. Yet I see on here, all the time . . "it's like Batman".
    Sod Batman! Sometimes I think some people won't be happy until Bond is flying round London in a cape.

    Have you seen Sherlock Holmes? There's loads of them, all in different versions of it. Or, I dunno, The Equalizer. The Saint. Haiwaii Five-O, Magnum PI, MacGyver, Poldark, Upstairs Downstairs, Matlock, Married With Children etc. etc. Not to mention other stories which get remade all the time like Hamlet. None of these are in a 'multiverse', they're just remakes or reinterpretations. You can find reasons as to why these are different to Bond, but it's the same mindset- if anyone can accept there can be different versions of them, who look different and don't hold the memories of the previous version of the character, then it's exactly the same process for Bond.
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