EoN sells up - Amazon MGM to produce 007 going forwards (Heyman and Pascal confirmed as producers)

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  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,385
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Maybe better for second unit though.

    Yeah. I agree. I know James Bond is action-packed. But a full action director directing Bond, doesn't really excite me. Because he could just make it a standard action film, with lots of action scenes, but no "Wow" moments that Bond needs in action. Drama and thriller directors who take their time to create mood, tension, atmosphere and suspense, have a better chance at creating unusual and exciting action scenes.

    Yeah exactly. I enjoyed Extraction but as I recall they were long action scenes really, and the directors of Bond films traditionally don't even handle those bits. I don't recall anything in the non-action parts of Extraction which seemed to make him suitable for Bond, which is much more than just action. But he is very good at action, so maybe second unit.

    I don't think we can go with "traditionally this is how these films have been produced" anymore. On anything really. The pieces will still be there, but I don't think any of the things we know about the way production was run is still relevant. It's going to be run much closer to a normal international blockbuster.

    I'm saying this because I've been thinking about how they're going to choose an actor and a lot of m thoughts on that went along this "well they always do X" line and we just don't know if they are going to keep doing X.

    That being said. I think they are going to go with as safe bets as they can manage for script, direction and lead actor to get a score on the board. That's why I also don't think it's going to be Cuaron. Heyman may have talked to him about maybe doing a later film. The Skyfall of this run, if you will. But for the first one, I think they'll want someone to bring that baby in in time and in budget and with all the main pieces popping off. And while just compiling a list of directors Pascal/Heyman have worked with is a fool's errand and the names are sometimes uninspiring I think someone in the vein of Jon Watts, Lord/Miller, David Yates (yikes) or - yes, I made an April Fool's post about him, but only because I think he's an actual contender - Paul King. King of course would probably need a Second Unit Director to do the action.
  • Posts: 1,821
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Maybe better for second unit though.

    Yeah. I agree. I know James Bond is action-packed. But a full action director directing Bond, doesn't really excite me. Because he could just make it a standard action film, with lots of action scenes, but no "Wow" moments that Bond needs in action. Drama and thriller directors who take their time to create mood, tension, atmosphere and suspense, have a better chance at creating unusual and exciting action scenes.

    Yeah exactly. I enjoyed Extraction but as I recall they were long action scenes really, and the directors of Bond films traditionally don't even handle those bits. I don't recall anything in the non-action parts of Extraction which seemed to make him suitable for Bond, which is much more than just action. But he is very good at action, so maybe second unit.

    Now he's honing his directing skills, i doubt if he would revert to doing second unit.

    Personally i think he could handle the hugeness of a Bond production. John Glen started out as second unit and like him or not, made some great Bond films..

    The set pieces were great in the 80's.

    But it depends on the type of film you want to make. We certainly don't need Cuaron if he's only going to direct the scenes with M.
  • edited April 15 Posts: 5,036
    I certainly hope it’s not David Yates. That Bond film would be painfully average. I also agree about Hargrave - I’m not sure he’d bring anything special to Bond.

    At any rate, while I understand they might want to play certain things safe (ie. keep the Bond theme, the gunbarrel, all the iconic elements etc), I also think there’s little point in making a Bond film if they’re not trying to create the best movie they can. Arguably one of the worst things they can do is make this film underwhelming, average or even generic. It’d feel like a let down given the circumstances. Ultimately it’s in Amazon’s best interest for this film to make an impact.

    So I suppose a flip side to that perspective is they might well go for an established, bigger name like Cuaron - someone who has a very distinct visual style and will bring something unique to Bond story wise. A sort of ‘go big or go home’ mentality. Ultimately though we’ll have to see, and it could go either way or in practice be a combination of both mentalities.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,776
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Maybe better for second unit though.

    Yeah. I agree. I know James Bond is action-packed. But a full action director directing Bond, doesn't really excite me. Because he could just make it a standard action film, with lots of action scenes, but no "Wow" moments that Bond needs in action. Drama and thriller directors who take their time to create mood, tension, atmosphere and suspense, have a better chance at creating unusual and exciting action scenes.

    Yeah exactly. I enjoyed Extraction but as I recall they were long action scenes really, and the directors of Bond films traditionally don't even handle those bits. I don't recall anything in the non-action parts of Extraction which seemed to make him suitable for Bond, which is much more than just action. But he is very good at action, so maybe second unit.

    I don't think we can go with "traditionally this is how these films have been produced" anymore. On anything really. The pieces will still be there, but I don't think any of the things we know about the way production was run is still relevant. It's going to be run much closer to a normal international blockbuster.

    It's true that we can't stick to thinking about how they've traditionally been made, but I would think that would just mean they're likely to go with a director who has shown they can handle drama and comedy and action, rather than going with someone who has shown they can do great action and that's it.
    And while just compiling a list of directors Pascal/Heyman have worked with is a fool's errand and the names are sometimes uninspiring I think someone in the vein of Jon Watts, Lord/Miller, David Yates (yikes) or - yes, I made an April Fool's post about him, but only because I think he's an actual contender - Paul King. King of course would probably need a Second Unit Director to do the action.

    Yeah, sticking to the names they've already worked with is a bit silly, but I agree that of that list King is not a crazy idea. He's shown he can do drama and comedy and emotion, handle big set pieces, and make completely brilliant films for the family.
  • Posts: 8,113
    I still think David MacKenzie ( 'Hell or High Water' 'Outlaw King') is the right man!
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,748
    I was listening to the latest episode of the James Bond and Friends podcast this morning and it seems like the general consensus is fans want a lighter Brosnan style film. Is that the case?

    I personally want them to stick with the Craig era tone (CR/QOS) but make them less personal to Bond and more stand alone.
  • Posts: 5,036
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I was listening to the latest episode of the James Bond and Friends podcast this morning and it seems like the general consensus is fans want a lighter Brosnan style film. Is that the case?

    I personally want them to stick with the Craig era tone (CR/QOS) but make them less personal to Bond and more stand alone.

    I think it’s one of those things where no one knows what they want until they see it, and we’re very much at the vocal, but speculative part of this process.

    I think while a lot of fans would want ‘standalone’ films and perhaps a more traditional/formula based Bond film (and perhaps something ‘lighter’), I don’t think there’s much consensus when we get into specifics about what we want.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited April 15 Posts: 3,266
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    it seems like the general consensus is fans want a lighter Brosnan style film. Is that the case?
    Not for me, Jordo. Not even a vague step in that direction, tbh. I'm with you - CR/QOS is my preferred template too.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 2,459
    A Bond 26 announcement might just come out of the blue...any day now.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,840
    If that Sun article is correct about Amazon wanting the film released in 2027 then they'll have to announce something very soon.

    It took EON around 2 years to complete a film more or less from scratch, and that's with a loyal team following from film to film. Amazon literally have to start from nothing, on top of casting a new Bond (which is critically important to get right). There's A LOT of work to be done.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited April 15 Posts: 2,459
    If that Sun article is correct about Amazon wanting the film released in 2027 then they'll have to announce something very soon.

    It took EON around 2 years to complete a film more or less from scratch, and that's with a loyal team following from film to film. Amazon literally have to start from nothing, on top of casting a new Bond (which is critically important to get right). There's A LOT of work to be done.

    Yeah. An announcement doesn't mean the film is guaranteed for 2027. We're definitely going to hear new announcements, since Pascal & Heyman are already working on Bond 26, in an early development stage.
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    Posts: 1,828
    Groundhog day with this conversation
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,594
    Yeah, speaking of Refn visual style, this video never fails to get a chuckle out of me.


    Seeing that video, I started dreaming of a Jodorowski Bond film. :-D I truly love his films 'El Topo' and 'The Holy Mountain', and I wish his 'Dune' had become reality. But in all seriousness, a Jodorowski Bond film would play like a drug-induced trip -- not DAF but DAF to the power DAF.
  • Posts: 2,174
    Witty, not lighter. All lighter did for me was give me a Bond who never really felt he was in danger.
  • Posts: 1,980
    Curious............ those people wanting a Craig style film..................what was the first Bond film you ever saw................in a theater?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,545
    My first film in theater was DIE ANOTHER DAY.

    But the film that truly elevated me from a casual fan to a hardcore fan was FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE on New Years 2004. I remember watching that on DVD for the first time with a nice set up, I found it so engrossing. I realized then that that was the kind of Bond film I wanted, and CASINO ROYALE eventually scratched that itch.

    So, I basically would be welcoming of a Bond film right there with FRWL/OHMSS/FYEO/TLD/CR.
  • Posts: 1,980
    My first film in theater was DIE ANOTHER DAY.

    But the film that truly elevated me from a casual fan to a hardcore fan was FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE on New Years 2004. I remember watching that on DVD for the first time with a nice set up, I found it so engrossing. I realized then that that was the kind of Bond film I wanted, and CASINO ROYALE eventually scratched that itch.

    So, I basically would be welcoming of a Bond film right there with FRWL/OHMSS/FYEO/TLD/CR.

    Interesting that your first Bond film looks nothing like your favorite films.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,545
    I was 15. I’m sure if I saw GE in theaters at the more impressionable age of 8 years old that it would have imprinted on me like so many of my fellow millennial Bond fans. Brosnan may be my first Bond, but he never really was my Bond.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,840
    The problem with going back to a darker tone is Bond already cradled a dead or dying loved one in 4 out of 5 of his movies. Is that just going to become something that happens in single Bond every movie? I dunno, seems really uninspired and stale to me. I want Bond 26 to feel fresh with new ideas, not just rehashing the Craig era.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,545
    As long as it doesn’t rehash the Brosnan run.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,776
    Are we calling Mathis a loved one?
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,296
    delfloria wrote: »
    Curious............ those people wanting a Craig style film..................what was the first Bond film you ever saw................in a theater?

    Live And Let Die age 6.... But it was only after reading the books in my twenties and seeing TLD that i decided i liked my Bond more serious and down to Earth.

    Casino Royale was the apogee of what i want in a Bond film.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,840
    The Paddington films were great, especially 2, but Wonka seemed like corporate slop. I doubt we'd see a womaniser Bond from Paul King, not unless he was being chastised every few minutes, but again that's been done to death. I want Bond 26 to have fresh ideas, not retreading the same "Bond is a relic" motiff of late.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,545
    Nah, they should keep doing what’s been successful. Maybe even this time Bond doesn’t get to sleep with anyone.
  • edited April 16 Posts: 5,036
    My first film in theater was DIE ANOTHER DAY.

    But the film that truly elevated me from a casual fan to a hardcore fan was FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE on New Years 2004. I remember watching that on DVD for the first time with a nice set up, I found it so engrossing. I realized then that that was the kind of Bond film I wanted, and CASINO ROYALE eventually scratched that itch.

    So, I basically would be welcoming of a Bond film right there with FRWL/OHMSS/FYEO/TLD/CR.

    I think if the next Bond film was, very broadly, a ‘back to basics’ adventure with a good splash of espionage, danger, a cat and mouse element seen in DN/FRWL/TLD, and some good action sequences along with some good old Bondian humour, villains, women etc. there’s every chance it’d do well. I suspect if it did require Bond to be faced with something more ‘personal’ (I don’t know - perhaps something like TLD where he’s hesitant to assassinate someone for whatever reason, or maybe something like in the books where he’s uneasy about being sent to kill on M’s orders, or perhaps he falls for a woman) I doubt a majority of general audiences would moan.

    I don’t see why they shouldn’t do any of that either, at least if the story they want to tell best suits all that. There’s no reason to be chained to making a ‘lighter’ film with goofy humour that rehashes the grander Bond films (not that there’s anything wrong with that in and of itself, and you could argue that describes TSWLM to some extent, but let’s be honest, all Bond films have degrees of light and dark anyway, as well as generally big scales to them). They may as well try to make the best Bond film they can.
  • Posts: 1,821
    A self-parody film can also work. You can use the tropes and the audience will accept them.

    I don't know what they're going to do, but I wouldn't rule out this so easily.
  • Posts: 5,036
    A self-parody film can also work. You can use the tropes and the audience will accept them.

    I don't know what they're going to do, but I wouldn't rule out this so easily.

    I wouldn’t call it parody, but arguably that self referentiality/subversions is something we got in the Craig era. And all Bond films are tongue in cheek to some extent.

    But I agree, it’s impossible to say what they’ll do at the moment. I think the only thing that applies is it’ll most likely be a ‘reinvention’ Bond film as EON used to say, and that’s only in the sense they’ll be introducing a brand new Bond and not continuing on from the previous few films plot wise.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,776
    007HallY wrote: »
    My first film in theater was DIE ANOTHER DAY.

    But the film that truly elevated me from a casual fan to a hardcore fan was FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE on New Years 2004. I remember watching that on DVD for the first time with a nice set up, I found it so engrossing. I realized then that that was the kind of Bond film I wanted, and CASINO ROYALE eventually scratched that itch.

    So, I basically would be welcoming of a Bond film right there with FRWL/OHMSS/FYEO/TLD/CR.

    I think if the next Bond film was, very broadly, a ‘back to basics’ adventure with a good splash of espionage, danger, a cat and mouse element seen in DN/FRWL/TLD, and some good action sequences along with some good old Bondian humour, villains, women etc. there’s every chance it’d do well. I suspect if it did require Bond to be faced with something more ‘personal’ (I don’t know - perhaps something like TLD where he’s hesitant to assassinate someone for whatever reason, or maybe something like in the books where he’s uneasy about being sent to kill on M’s orders, or perhaps he falls for a woman) I doubt a majority of general audiences would moan.

    If I had to bet, that's exactly what I'd say the next film will be like, yeah.
    I reckon Pascal's Holland Spider Man films are a good touchpoint. I don't think B26 will be anything like them on a surface level, but I think in terms of a family appeal with action and gags and drama, and yes, some 'personal' story (because it's a film, why wouldn't you give the main character an emotional storyline?) it will probably be in that ballpark.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 16 Posts: 8,840
    007HallY wrote: »
    My first film in theater was DIE ANOTHER DAY.

    But the film that truly elevated me from a casual fan to a hardcore fan was FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE on New Years 2004. I remember watching that on DVD for the first time with a nice set up, I found it so engrossing. I realized then that that was the kind of Bond film I wanted, and CASINO ROYALE eventually scratched that itch.

    So, I basically would be welcoming of a Bond film right there with FRWL/OHMSS/FYEO/TLD/CR.

    I think if the next Bond film was, very broadly, a ‘back to basics’ adventure with a good splash of espionage, danger, a cat and mouse element seen in DN/FRWL/TLD, and some good action sequences along with some good old Bondian humour, villains, women etc. there’s every chance it’d do well. I suspect if it did require Bond to be faced with something more ‘personal’ (I don’t know - perhaps something like TLD where he’s hesitant to assassinate someone for whatever reason, or maybe something like in the books where he’s uneasy about being sent to kill on M’s orders, or perhaps he falls for a woman) I doubt a majority of general audiences would moan.

    I don’t see why they shouldn’t do any of that either, at least if the story they want to tell best suits all that. There’s no reason to be chained to making a ‘lighter’ film with goofy humour that rehashes the grander Bond films (not that there’s anything wrong with that in and of itself, and you could argue that describes TSWLM to some extent, but let’s be honest, all Bond films have degrees of light and dark anyway, as well as generally big scales to them). They may as well try to make the best Bond film they can.

    I think repetition and staleness is the main reason they should avoid such an approach. At the end of the day Bond films are action thrillers with a dash of suspense and romance, if serious drama is present its most likely going to take a few forms. Either Bond is going to lose someone he cares about, or there's going to be some kind of quite obvious theme or message ("the old ways are the best", "the shadows", "trust", familial connections) and both of these have been well and truly explored in recent films. To do it again, especially with a new actor will just seem like treading water IMO. I think when there's a new Bond people want to see what's different - they want something new. Unless they have some crazy unique or novel concept that none of the other films touched on already, then I think the better option is to come up with a different approach, and shake things up creatively. I'd love them to come up with a really gripping intriguing story in the modern day which does not shy away from commenting on geopolitics (a bit like TLD/GE), and then once they have a clear story mapped out, then see if a obvious arc/stakes for the character present themselves. It seems to me, especially with B25, that they started with where they wanted to leave their Bond and then worked backwards to figure out how to get him there.
  • edited April 16 Posts: 5,036
    007HallY wrote: »
    My first film in theater was DIE ANOTHER DAY.

    But the film that truly elevated me from a casual fan to a hardcore fan was FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE on New Years 2004. I remember watching that on DVD for the first time with a nice set up, I found it so engrossing. I realized then that that was the kind of Bond film I wanted, and CASINO ROYALE eventually scratched that itch.

    So, I basically would be welcoming of a Bond film right there with FRWL/OHMSS/FYEO/TLD/CR.

    I think if the next Bond film was, very broadly, a ‘back to basics’ adventure with a good splash of espionage, danger, a cat and mouse element seen in DN/FRWL/TLD, and some good action sequences along with some good old Bondian humour, villains, women etc. there’s every chance it’d do well. I suspect if it did require Bond to be faced with something more ‘personal’ (I don’t know - perhaps something like TLD where he’s hesitant to assassinate someone for whatever reason, or maybe something like in the books where he’s uneasy about being sent to kill on M’s orders, or perhaps he falls for a woman) I doubt a majority of general audiences would moan.

    I don’t see why they shouldn’t do any of that either, at least if the story they want to tell best suits all that. There’s no reason to be chained to making a ‘lighter’ film with goofy humour that rehashes the grander Bond films (not that there’s anything wrong with that in and of itself, and you could argue that describes TSWLM to some extent, but let’s be honest, all Bond films have degrees of light and dark anyway, as well as generally big scales to them). They may as well try to make the best Bond film they can.

    I think repetition and staleness is the main reason they should avoid such an approach. At the end of the day Bond films are action thrillers with a dash of suspense and romance, if serious drama is present its most likely going to take a few forms. Either Bond is going to lose someone he cares about, or there's going to be some kind of quite obvious theme or message ("the old ways are the best", "the shadows", "trust", familial connections) and both of these have been well and truly explored in recent films. To do it again, especially with a new actor will just seem like treading water IMO. I think when there's a new Bond people want to see what's different - they want something new. Unless they have some crazy unique or novel concept that none of the other films touched on already, then I think the better option is to come up with a different approach, and shake things up creatively. I'd love them to come up with a really gripping intriguing story in the modern day which does not shy away from commenting on geopolitics (a bit like TLD/GE), and then once they have a clear story mapped out, then see if a obvious arc/stakes for the character present themselves. It seems to me, especially with B25, that they started with where they wanted to leave their Bond and then worked backwards to figure out how to get him there.

    I never said anything about rehashing the Craig era. In fact what I described, insofar as it’s very broad and describes no specific story, is less comparable to SP and NTTD and more akin to the early Connery films, and TLD etc.

    I don’t understand the claim that any personal conflict for Bond would automatically be the same as they were in the recent films either (or indeed how ideas like old vs new, or the idea of spy work changing in the modern world couldn’t be done very differently in a new film, or why those specific things aren’t desirable at all in a Bond film. Those two themes have cropped up at least since GE, if not before).
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