EoN sells up - Amazon MGM to produce 007 going forwards (Heyman and Pascal confirmed as producers)

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,792
    007HallY wrote: »
    My first film in theater was DIE ANOTHER DAY.

    But the film that truly elevated me from a casual fan to a hardcore fan was FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE on New Years 2004. I remember watching that on DVD for the first time with a nice set up, I found it so engrossing. I realized then that that was the kind of Bond film I wanted, and CASINO ROYALE eventually scratched that itch.

    So, I basically would be welcoming of a Bond film right there with FRWL/OHMSS/FYEO/TLD/CR.

    I think if the next Bond film was, very broadly, a ‘back to basics’ adventure with a good splash of espionage, danger, a cat and mouse element seen in DN/FRWL/TLD, and some good action sequences along with some good old Bondian humour, villains, women etc. there’s every chance it’d do well. I suspect if it did require Bond to be faced with something more ‘personal’ (I don’t know - perhaps something like TLD where he’s hesitant to assassinate someone for whatever reason, or maybe something like in the books where he’s uneasy about being sent to kill on M’s orders, or perhaps he falls for a woman) I doubt a majority of general audiences would moan.

    I don’t see why they shouldn’t do any of that either, at least if the story they want to tell best suits all that. There’s no reason to be chained to making a ‘lighter’ film with goofy humour that rehashes the grander Bond films (not that there’s anything wrong with that in and of itself, and you could argue that describes TSWLM to some extent, but let’s be honest, all Bond films have degrees of light and dark anyway, as well as generally big scales to them). They may as well try to make the best Bond film they can.

    I think repetition and staleness is the main reason they should avoid such an approach. At the end of the day Bond films are action thrillers with a dash of suspense and romance, if serious drama is present its most likely going to take a few forms. Either Bond is going to lose someone he cares about, or there's going to be some kind of quite obvious theme or message ("the old ways are the best", "the shadows", "trust", familial connections) and both of these have been well and truly explored in recent films. To do it again, especially with a new actor will just seem like treading water IMO.

    That's your imagination being the limiting factor there, not what the filmmakers can make.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,669
    delfloria wrote: »
    Curious............ those people wanting a Craig style film..................what was the first Bond film you ever saw................in a theater?

    Goldeneye for me, at 15.

    But I think it's incorrect to see the Craig era as one. For me, CR and QoS were one direction (which I loved), but from Skyfall on, they are tonally different and drifting further and further away in a sort of melodramatic way. In CR and QQoS Bond is confronted with personal loss because of his job, in Skyfall and further on, his personal hardship becomes the job.

    I like the films with Bond beeing a profssional whom pushes through no matter what is thrown at him. I don't really like Craig's Bond in NTTD. Already in SP he becomes far too arrogant. In NTTD he's actually just a prick half the time.

    So, preferably a straight-on mission in which MI6 suspect something is off, and send 007 to investigate what's going on. Or, like TB, be confronted with an international situation, and beeing send in to thwart whatever it is.

    I like a bit of understated humour, a bit of swagger and confidence. But the focus should be on the mission, not on Bond. That, after all, was Fleming's propsition: a rather dull person (hence the dull name of James Bond(yes, I know, we don't see the name as dull anymore))who's resilliant, inventive, and gets the job done, whilst beeing put in peril.

    We've had that in many films, more or less, and i think that's what keeps Bond going. Every time the films make it too personal, it detracts from the experience. Take 'Mrs Carver'. Of course, the casting was off as well, but the story didn't need a personal angle. And what was that bending over Elektra? Were we really supposed to think that this time he really cared, even though he now knew she was the one behind the plot? That's not Bond. His sense of duty and rightiousness comes first. Personal sensitivities are pushed out of the window as soon as they hamper him. He's not a super hero, he's a man on a mission. A dedicated man. That's why we can (at least partly) relate to him, and why we can fantasize to be (slightly) like him. We don't do that with Superman, Batman, Thor, etc. Or even Ethan Hunt, who is too infallible.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,385
    I think the one thing that I love the Craig era for, that I don't need anymore of at the outset, is the delving into the trauma that created and changed the character. Like I said, I love that they did it with Craig. He was the right actor for it. I don't need it anymore. Also, to a degree, because I think we are moving away from that as a dominating storytelling trope in culture overall.

    I'm not saying make him a stone man. I'm not saying he cant't evolve. He should. It just doesn't have to be this trauma focus, of "this personal loss is specifically explaining the actions he is taking here". He's not a normal, well-adjusted guy. Stuff happened to him. We spend the last 20 years looking into these things. We get it.

    I have recently started re-reading the books (meaning, I'm towards the end of CR) and the psychological make-up of this guy is fascinating. He's such a rich character and such an interesting look at masculinity that is maybe more relevant now than it was 20 years ago. And at least in CR there's no need to tie that back to anything. Maybe it's because Fleming kind of takes as a given that this type of guy would have been shaped by the War and by the way society was and every reader immediatly understood that. I don't know. But I'm kind of blown away by how good the internality of Bond is and would love it if we somehow got that onto the screen without having to tie it all back to something we see or get explained in the film. It's there; we can understand the context.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 16 Posts: 17,792
    delfloria wrote: »
    Curious............ those people wanting a Craig style film..................what was the first Bond film you ever saw................in a theater?

    Goldeneye for me, at 15.

    About the same for me. I wanted to see TLD, but somehow never got around to it, and then was too young for LTK, and obviously had to wait a while for GE. So it was my first, but shouldn't have been!

    B

    I like a bit of understated humour, a bit of swagger and confidence. But the focus should be on the mission, not on Bond. That, after all, was Fleming's propsition: a rather dull person (hence the dull name of James Bond(yes, I know, we don't see the name as dull anymore))who's resilliant, inventive, and gets the job done, whilst beeing put in peril.

    A proposition he pretty much wrote off in the very first book with the Vesper storyline, and of course created a personal, evolving storyline for Bond which threaded through the later books.

    He's not a super hero, he's a man on a mission. A dedicated man. That's why we can (at least partly) relate to him, and why we can fantasize to be (slightly) like him. We don't do that with Superman, Batman, Thor, etc. Or even Ethan Hunt, who is too infallible.

    I'd say a fair slice of the films absolutely show him as pretty much a superhero: look at those Connerys- he's practically indestructible and never concerned by anything. That's where the fantasy comes from. Making him more of a believable person as the last few films have done is the way they make him more relatable. I don't relate to the Connery Bond, he's just a lot of fun to watch.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,748
    delfloria wrote: »
    Curious............ those people wanting a Craig style film..................what was the first Bond film you ever saw................in a theater?

    Casino Royale for me, I've been that blown away by any film in the cinema. It was everything I wanted and more
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,266
    delfloria wrote: »
    I think it's incorrect to see the Craig era as one. For me, CR and QoS were one direction (which I loved), but from Skyfall on, they are tonally different and drifting further and further away in a sort of melodramatic way.
    Yes, absolutely. That's why I'd want CR/QOS specifically to be the template, rather than 'the Craig era'.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,486
    Drawing from two films from different eras , I would like to se a hybrid of Thunderball and Casino Royale , a relatively grounded film with an epic scope and high stakes.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,688
    delfloria wrote: »
    Curious............ those people wanting a Craig style film..................what was the first Bond film you ever saw................in a theater?

    Die Another Day at 14. By the time I had become a Bond fan, TWINE was in theaters but didn't know enough to warrant a theater watch. Plus my dad wasn't a Brosnan fan, but he took me to see DAD and he enjoyed it for what it was worth. He grew up with the Connery films and absolutely had a blast seeing CR-SP with me. He loved the Craig films but was absolutely pissed that they killed him off.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 16 Posts: 8,842
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Maybe better for second unit though.

    Yeah. I agree. I know James Bond is action-packed. But a full action director directing Bond, doesn't really excite me. Because he could just make it a standard action film, with lots of action scenes, but no "Wow" moments that Bond needs in action. Drama and thriller directors who take their time to create mood, tension, atmosphere and suspense, have a better chance at creating unusual and exciting action scenes.

    Yeah exactly. I enjoyed Extraction but as I recall they were long action scenes really, and the directors of Bond films traditionally don't even handle those bits. I don't recall anything in the non-action parts of Extraction which seemed to make him suitable for Bond, which is much more than just action. But he is very good at action, so maybe second unit.

    I don't think we can go with "traditionally this is how these films have been produced" anymore. On anything really. The pieces will still be there, but I don't think any of the things we know about the way production was run is still relevant. It's going to be run much closer to a normal international blockbuster.

    I'm saying this because I've been thinking about how they're going to choose an actor and a lot of m thoughts on that went along this "well they always do X" line and we just don't know if they are going to keep doing X.

    That being said. I think they are going to go with as safe bets as they can manage for script, direction and lead actor to get a score on the board. That's why I also don't think it's going to be Cuaron. Heyman may have talked to him about maybe doing a later film. The Skyfall of this run, if you will. But for the first one, I think they'll want someone to bring that baby in in time and in budget and with all the main pieces popping off. And while just compiling a list of directors Pascal/Heyman have worked with is a fool's errand and the names are sometimes uninspiring I think someone in the vein of Jon Watts, Lord/Miller, David Yates (yikes) or - yes, I made an April Fool's post about him, but only because I think he's an actual contender - Paul King. King of course would probably need a Second Unit Director to do the action.

    In order for Paul King to be a serious contender we would have to be headed in a much more light hearted "popcorn flick" direction. It would basically mean a return to the breezy tongue-in-cheek fun of the 70's that some fans apparently hate so much.
  • Posts: 1,825
    Yes, TB is the way to do it.

    But I don't think it will happen. It takes self-confidence and self-control. It is easier to make a TSWLM or a GE.

  • edited April 16 Posts: 5,048
    From our perspective we have no concept of... well, the concept they'll go with for this film. No idea of story, how they'll execute the plot, what sort of characters or new situations they'll want. I suspect what the film will be like on a broad level will depend a lot on that. Otherwise we're just at a point where we're trying to use other Bond films to say what we'd like from a currently non-existent one.

    I will say though it shows just how many different things Bond fans want, and indeed how many different directions they can go in (not that the current producers would read what we're writing). It's not a given a 'lighter' film is to be expected. I think after Craig's films there's even a natural desire/instinct to want something more grounded and even keep a bit of that harder edge, at least in certain respects.
  • I think Goldeneye would be a good template going forward. It has a perfect blend of tones and styles and Pierce is great right from the start in it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 17,792
    A GoldenEye feels to me where they'd be vaguely aiming it, yes.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited April 16 Posts: 2,460
    Yes. GoldenEye, it is. We've been wanting that mixed with The Living Daylights for Bond 26.
  • Posts: 5,048
    Yeah, GE's pretty great. It's got things like standard Bond tropes but with original characters and personal stakes for Bond. There's even a touch of the old vs new in there and even an element of 'the shadows' or how spy work has changed in the modern world/with technology. It's a very conscious film about bringing Bond into a new decade that still feels Bondian. It's got its darker, grittier moments, but has a good bit of humour too. With a better score it'd be near perfect in my opinion.

    But again, it depends in part on what story they run with. But I certainly wouldn't mind a film that mixes those classic Bond ideas with more modern ones as GE does.
  • Or maybe the next Bond film can take influence from the likes of FRWL and FYEO, where he’s tasked with tracking down some sort of MacGuffin against enemy opposition. I’d like another down to earth thriller like that, seeing as how NTTD went pretty over the top in some places.
  • edited April 16 Posts: 5,048
    Or maybe the next Bond film can take influence from the likes of FRWL and FYEO, where he’s tasked with tracking down some sort of MacGuffin against enemy opposition. I’d like another down to earth thriller like that, seeing as how NTTD went pretty over the top in some places.

    I mean, GE takes the classic megalomaniac villain hell bent on destruction trope and does something new with it. So I have no doubt they could run with something like what you're describing and give it a similar modern twist with some new ideas, and of course some great action sequences etc.

    I must admit, my preference would be to have a story a bit more like that too. Not necessarily a McGuffin or a direct riff on FRWL/FYEO, but it doesn't not have to be either. I'd be very up for an otherwise simple premise for the next Bond film that integrates some new and modern ideas - I don't know, a fellow 00 or agent is killed and Bond has to investigate, Bond is sent to assassinate someone or seduce a woman for a very particular reason, retrieve some sort of McGuffin etc. Could even be something a bit more original than that, but ultimately something broadly familiar with enough creative room to do a lot. Give a bit of personal weight or conflict for Bond, give us the spectacle and scale of the recent Bond films, give us new and interesting villains and Bond girls, but also give more a sense that we're going back to basics and let the story/film get bigger as it unfolds. It'd be nice if Amazon could prove they can create a gripping story as well as something with spectacle for their first Bond adventure at any rate. Again something familiar but new. And ultimately I'm of the opinion if, first and foremost, the next Bond film is well crafted and exciting it'll do well regardless of what its story is (no doubt it'll be advertised to a great length anyway), but the more gripping the film, the better it can do.
  • Posts: 87
    Thinking back to when I was a teenager watching GoldenEye, I don’t recall the new era launching with a distinct logo, just the movie title as a wordmark. I’m proposing a new branding identity for the next age: the word 'BOND' as a standalone logo. Keep the 007 motif, but have this new 'stamp' front and centre.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,566
    It seems to me, especially with B25, that they started with where they wanted to leave their Bond and then worked backwards to figure out how to get him there.

    Hate to break it to you, @Mendes4Lyfe , a great many screenwriters start writing the script already knowing their ending. Then they go back to the beginning, the inciting incident, the plot points and midpoints, that will deliver them safely to their already conceptualized climax and resolution.

    Screenwriting 101.

    It's not advised to ever just start on page one and "wing it" to some kind of "exciting conclusion" (and that's not to mention all the outlines and character bios that go into the work before opening Final Draft).

  • Posts: 1,982
    It is an interesting idea that they might strive for a whole new way of visually branding and identifying the Amazon series. As fans were are VERY used to the EON iconography. Of course on the flip side is.............. did they pay billions for the property just to toss it all out and start from scratch?
  • Hitchcock would famously come up with ideas and work an entire film around one specific idea. Man gets chased by a Cropduster? That would become North by Northwest. A fight on the Statue of Liberty? That would form the basis for 1942’s Saboteur. If it worked for the Master of Suspense, why can’t it work for Bond?

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,842
    Hitchcock would famously come up with ideas and work an entire film around one specific idea. Man gets chased by a Cropduster? That would become North by Northwest. A fight on the Statue of Liberty? That would form the basis for 1942’s Saboteur. If it worked for the Master of Suspense, why can’t it work for Bond?

    Well in recent Bond films it usually means the villains scheme is left vague and poorly defined, more like wallpaper than an actual engrossing story. What are the real world stakes of the Nine Eyes program going online, and what's to stop M getting a warrant for Denbighs arrest and shutting it down 30 minutes or an hour after its already live?
  • edited April 16 Posts: 2,505
    Hitchcock would famously come up with ideas and work an entire film around one specific idea. Man gets chased by a Cropduster? That would become North by Northwest. A fight on the Statue of Liberty? That would form the basis for 1942’s Saboteur. If it worked for the Master of Suspense, why can’t it work for Bond?

    Well in recent Bond films it usually means the villains scheme is left vague and poorly defined, more like wallpaper than an actual engrossing story. What are the real world stakes of the Nine Eyes program going online, and what's to stop M getting a warrant for Denbighs arrest and shutting it down 30 minutes or an hour after its already live?

    What are the real world stakes of Goldfinger blowing up Fort Knox? What are the real world stakes of Blofeld releasing his virus causing infertility? What are the real world stakes of Drax releasing poisonous globes to take out the world population? None because these are all movies and nothing real is at stake. I have issues with SP too, but the Nine Eyes Program is actually an intriguing concept.
  • Posts: 5,048
    I'm not a fan of the Nine Eyes thing for what it's worth and think it could have been done better (I doubt that comes down to the writers planning the ending beforehand though). I thought the nanobots in NTTD was a massive improvement in the sense that it felt scary and dangerous.
  • 007HallY wrote: »
    I'm not a fan of the Nine Eyes thing for what it's worth and think it could have been done better (I doubt that comes down to the writers planning the ending beforehand though). I thought the nanobots in NTTD was a massive improvement in the sense that it felt scary and dangerous.

    I thought Nine Eyes was interesting and I agree it could’ve been much better. In a post Edward Snowden world, the idea of a real world “Nine Eyes” counterpart ran by nefarious people actually terrifies me somewhat.
  • Posts: 5,048
    007HallY wrote: »
    I'm not a fan of the Nine Eyes thing for what it's worth and think it could have been done better (I doubt that comes down to the writers planning the ending beforehand though). I thought the nanobots in NTTD was a massive improvement in the sense that it felt scary and dangerous.

    I thought Nine Eyes was interesting and I agree it could’ve been much better. In a post Edward Snowden world, the idea of a real world “Nine Eyes” counterpart ran by nefarious people actually terrifies me somewhat.

    There's something to it for sure. I suppose for me with SP I got a lot out of MI6 being taken over by nefarious people posing as bureaucrats trying to 'modernise' things (there's something about that idea which goes back to QOS and Quantum/SPECTRE operatives being high ranking people and playing a long game). I do prefer the nanbots as there's something much more tangible about seeing people actually die from it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,566
    007HallY wrote: »
    I'm not a fan of the Nine Eyes thing for what it's worth and think it could have been done better (I doubt that comes down to the writers planning the ending beforehand though). I thought the nanobots in NTTD was a massive improvement in the sense that it felt scary and dangerous.

    I thought Nine Eyes was interesting and I agree it could’ve been much better. In a post Edward Snowden world, the idea of a real world “Nine Eyes” counterpart ran by nefarious people actually terrifies me somewhat.

    It was a solid concept that wasn’t well executed.

    I’d say that that plot got lost in all the drafts that were done when the various creatives weren’t liking the third act (but if they exorcised it from the final scripts/shooting draft(s), then many elements of Spectre would have collapsed. They didn’t want to delay shooting and kept polishing a deeply flawed script when, ideally, they should have scrapped the script, delayed shooting, and started on a page).
  • edited April 16 Posts: 2,505
    peter wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I'm not a fan of the Nine Eyes thing for what it's worth and think it could have been done better (I doubt that comes down to the writers planning the ending beforehand though). I thought the nanobots in NTTD was a massive improvement in the sense that it felt scary and dangerous.

    I thought Nine Eyes was interesting and I agree it could’ve been much better. In a post Edward Snowden world, the idea of a real world “Nine Eyes” counterpart ran by nefarious people actually terrifies me somewhat.

    It was a solid concept that wasn’t well executed.

    I’d say that that plot got lost in all the drafts that were done when the various creatives weren’t liking the third act (but if they exorcised it from the final scripts/shooting draft(s), then many elements of Spectre would have collapsed. They didn’t want to delay shooting and kept polishing a deeply flawed script when, ideally, they should have scrapped the script, delayed shooting, and started on a page).

    I don’t know much about the various rewrites but you’re more than likely on the ball with that one. It did feel as if the main scheme did take a back seat to everything else going in SPECTRE so yeah it’s not really memorable. I’d love for the idea to come back in a future film though - maybe have it fleshed out a bit more.

    On the subject of the rewrites, wasn’t Irma Bunt supposed to appear in the film at some stage in development?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 16 Posts: 17,792
    007HallY wrote: »
    I'm not a fan of the Nine Eyes thing for what it's worth and think it could have been done better (I doubt that comes down to the writers planning the ending beforehand though). I thought the nanobots in NTTD was a massive improvement in the sense that it felt scary and dangerous.

    I thought Nine Eyes was interesting and I agree it could’ve been much better. In a post Edward Snowden world, the idea of a real world “Nine Eyes” counterpart ran by nefarious people actually terrifies me somewhat.

    Yeah I think Nine Eyes could have been talked up a bit more. Basically it's Blofeld taking control of the intelligence network of the free world, and governments take action based on the information they receive, so if you control the information you can steer governments and basically control the world. With this one action Blofeld essentially takes control of everything, and exploits every country for his own aims: we already hear briefly about their exploitation of pharma, wars, sex trade etc. - it'll be more of that but on a scale unimagined, misery for all except the Spectre bosses making themselves richer. Y'know, there could be a really disturbing picture painted of a world under criminal Spectre control, a kind of global ghetto, but it's not really touched upon.
    Maybe make C into an actual believer -as Blofeld briefly mentions in the final film-, a zealot for some kind of ideology that believes in power going to those powerful enough to take it or surveilling the world or something like that.

    And intercepting information is really very faithful to the Blofeld in the books, that's how he started out.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited April 16 Posts: 8,842
    peter wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    I'm not a fan of the Nine Eyes thing for what it's worth and think it could have been done better (I doubt that comes down to the writers planning the ending beforehand though). I thought the nanobots in NTTD was a massive improvement in the sense that it felt scary and dangerous.

    I thought Nine Eyes was interesting and I agree it could’ve been much better. In a post Edward Snowden world, the idea of a real world “Nine Eyes” counterpart ran by nefarious people actually terrifies me somewhat.

    It was a solid concept that wasn’t well executed.

    I’d say that that plot got lost in all the drafts that were done when the various creatives weren’t liking the third act (but if they exorcised it from the final scripts/shooting draft(s), then many elements of Spectre would have collapsed. They didn’t want to delay shooting and kept polishing a deeply flawed script when, ideally, they should have scrapped the script, delayed shooting, and started on a page).

    I don’t know much about the various rewrites but you’re more than likely on the ball with that one. It did feel as if the main scheme did take a back seat to everything else going in SPECTRE so yeah it’s not really memorable.

    Which has been my point the whole time, thank you. :)>-
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