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Spectre Gunbarrel ***Spoilers***

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    fanbond123 wrote:
    Barbara Broccoli on Skyfall's gun barrel:

    "The gun barrel is at the end of the movie again. Is that the way it’s going to be from now on?

    BARBARA: It will vary from film to film. In this film there wasn’t really a place to put it at the beginning. I know that sounds kind of funny, but we looked at putting it at the beginning and we discussed it with Sam, and we just felt it was better suited for this particular film at the end. We also thought it would be a nice way to mark the fiftieth anniversary, by having our 50th anniversary logo up there, just to mark this extraordinary event of fifty years.

    So it’s not necessarily going to be at the end in all future Bond films?

    BARBARA: No."

    http://www.heyuguys.co.uk/2012/10/24/the-heyuguys-interview-skyfall-michael-g-wilson-barbara-broccolli/

    Personally I think this is a dumb decision (irrespective of it marking 50 years of the franchise). The gun barrel scene was designed for the start of the films, not the end. I don't think Cubby Broccoli would have approved of this 'change'.

    BARBARA: "It will vary from film to film."

    Changing it from the end then back to the beginning for future films makes it seem too messy and inconsistent. They should have left it at the beginning for all the films. Once you start mucking about with it you lose any consistency and it becomes a silly gimmick: "hey, let's stick it at the end! No, let's try the middle!" Whatever. I can imagine Babs and MG thinking about where to stick it in some clueless kind of way. Perhaps they chose the end at random? :P

    Just my opinion - the producers have their own opinion and they're in charge. But it doesn't mean fans have to respect their 'change'. This is a classic example of changing something that doesn't need changing.

    I agree with you entirely.

    As Partridge would put it 'Stop getting the gunbarrel wrong!'
  • fanbond123fanbond123
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,661
    I find this comment hard to believe.

    "In this film there wasn’t really a place to put it at the beginning"

    I do not believe her. 20 Bond films had the gun barrel at the beginning and yet two out three Craig Bond films - and she picked Craig, not Albert Broccoli or Harry Saltzman - have the gun barrel at the end? I think she's embarrassed sticking the barrel at the front because it reminds people of her father's films. I reckon that's the real reason. She's using every tactic to distance the Craig era - which is her era - from her father's films. This is why the gun barrel hasn't been at the start of the last three Bond films and I doubt it will ever return to the start, well, not while B Broccoli is calling the shots. It's also worth noting how the Craig Bond films use little of the Monty Norman/John Barry 'James Bond theme' - which is also B Broccoli trying to distance her Bond films from her father's.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    fanbond123 wrote:
    I find this comment hard to believe.

    "In this film there wasn’t really a place to put it at the beginning"

    I do not believe her. 20 Bond films had the gun barrel at the beginning and yet two out three Craig Bond films - and she picked Craig, not Albert Broccoli or Harry Saltzman - have the gun barrel at the end? I think she's embarrassed sticking the barrel at the front because it reminds people of her father's films. I reckon that's the real reason. She's using every tactic to distance the Craig era - which is her era - from her father's films. This is why the gun barrel hasn't been at the start of the last three Bond films and I doubt it will ever return to the start, well, not while B Broccoli is calling the shots. It's also worth noting how the Craig Bond films use little of the Monty Norman/John Barry 'James Bond theme' - which is also B Broccoli trying to distance her Bond films from her father's.

    You may well have a point. And for the 50th I would have quite liked 'Albert R Broccolis EON productions presents' across the GB a la DN. Would have been a nice nod to her old man.

    'There wasnt a place to put it at the beginning' is a ludicrous comment as well. Of course there was. The gunbarrel is the beginning FFS. Is everyone seriously saying that this decision was made just so that they didnt offend Deakins and ruin his shot?
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    edited October 2012 Posts: 4,619
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Is everyone seriously saying that this decision was made just so that they didnt offend Deakins and ruin his shot?

    What the hell are you smoking? The decision was made because Sam Mendes thought that the gunbarrel worked better at the end of the film. The decision has nothing to do with Deakins.

    THANK GOD the Bond films are NOT made by Bond fans!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    PanchitoPistoles wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Is everyone seriously saying that this decision was made just so that they didnt offend Deakins and ruin his shot?

    What the hell are you smoking? The decision was made because Sam Mendes thought that the gunbarrel worked better at the end of the film. The decision has nothing to do with Deakins.

    THANK GOD the Bond films are NOT made by Bond fans!

    Mendes has said the decision was made because he didnt see how he could go from that into the film without ruining Deakins opening shot. Well sorry Roger the gunbarrel starts the film - think of a new opening shot.

    The fact that it sort of works at the end because all the rebooted elements are now nicely in place doesnt get away from the fact that we want it up top to tell us 'You are now watching a BOND film FFS'.
  • fanbond123fanbond123
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,661
    The whole thing is sad and ludicrous.

    The Adele Skyfall video has the gun barrel at the start!



    So if the music video promoting Skyfall has the gun barrel at the start, why not the actual film?

    The producers must think the fans are idiots falling for their lies or nonsense about why it has to be at the end of the film. If the Skyfall video has the gun barrel at the start surely it's good enough for the ACTUAL FILM!!!!!!!!!!

    Eon Productions, you've been found out. No-one will believe your reason for sticking it at the end of the film.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    fanbond123 wrote:
    The whole thing is sad and ludicrous.

    The Adele Skyfall video has the gun barrel at the start!



    So if the music video promoting Skyfall has the gun barrel at the start, why not the actual film?

    The producers must think the fans are idiots falling for their lies or nonsense about why it has to be at the end of the film. If the Skyfall video has the gun barrel at the start surely it's good enough for the ACTUAL FILM!!!!!!!!!!

    Eon Productions, you've been found out.

    And why the shame shitty design as QOS when in all the posters and the video above they have used the classic Binder gunbarrel?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    fanbond123 wrote:
    If the Skyfall video has the gun barrel at the start surely it's good enough for the ACTUAL FILM!!!!!!!!!!

    Step away from the crack pipe.
  • dchantrydchantry
    Posts: 278
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    fanbond123 wrote:
    The whole thing is sad and ludicrous.

    The Adele Skyfall video has the gun barrel at the start!



    OMG, isn't that just the worst video ever for a Bond theme tune (which is brilliant BTW). Still, it will be OK for Karaoke.

    Back to the GB, in Sam we trust. Wait until you've seen the film and you will realise what people are saying with things coming full turn. It's pretty perfect the way its handled except the QOS GB design.

    Next people will be moaning because DC doesn't wear safari suits or a dodgy hair piece..........Hm.
  • Pierce2DanielPierce2Daniel
    Posts: 4,409
    dchantry wrote:
    So, I have it straight from the horses mouth (Asked him at the premiere) regarding the gunbarrel:
    According to Sam Mendes, he always intended to include the Gunbarrel at the start, but when he saw Roger Deakins opening shot, he decided that he couldn't open with the gunbarrel and make that shot, which he wanted to keep as it was so beautiful actually work and opening into an establishing shot of the Istanbul skyline and then going to that shot was too old fashioned, hence the reason this time to keep it the same as Marc Foster.
    I completely understand the logic behind this. The opening shot is great, had the film opened with the GB then a shot of Istanbul it would have been too typical and predictable. Plus there is a seriously cool shot of Craig walking on to the busy streets of Istanbul which works way better at creating a great atmosphere and energy than any establishing wide shot of the city.

  • bondsumbondsum
    Posts: 3,333
    I just want to remind people of a Cubby Broccoli quote:

    "You see the blank screen, the John Barry orchestra pounds out the Bond theme, then the familiar two white circles swing onto the screen until they converge, like the focusing of a camera, into the circle of a gun barrel. Bond walks into the circle and fires a shot. It works perfectly. By then, the audience's pulse rate is up a couple of beats."

    I agree with the Wiz, it belongs at the beginning and I just don't buy Mende's logic that it would spoil Deakins opening shot - change the opening shot so that it fits is my solution.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    bondsum wrote:
    I just want to remind people of a Cubby Broccoli quote:

    "You see the blank screen, the John Barry orchestra pounds out the Bond theme, then the familiar two white circles swing onto the screen until they converge, like the focusing of a camera, into the circle of a gun barrel. Bond walks into the circle and fires a shot. It works perfectly. By then, the audience's pulse rate is up a couple of beats."

    I agree with the Wiz, it belongs at the beginning and I just don't buy Mende's logic that it would spoil Deakins opening shot - change the opening shot so that it fits is my solution.

    Very well said. I think Cubby knows a thing or two more about making a Bond film than Mendes and Deakins no matter how many oscars they have or how nice their photography is.

    GE still has a pretty iconic shot when the camera lifts up over Bonds head on the edge of the dam. The fact that its not the first shot of the film and that we have also had the gunbarrel doesnt detract from how good it is.

    As I've said I can just about forgive it with the way things wrapped up at the end but there really is no excuse for Bond24.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    edited October 2012 Posts: 1,261
    wrong posting
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    With all this fuss this has caused and what the end of Skyfall promises we can only hope for the best next time. It's something to look forward to, right?
  • maxcraigmaxcraig
    Posts: 229
    fanbond123 wrote:
    The whole thing is sad and ludicrous.

    The Adele Skyfall video has the gun barrel at the start!



    So if the music video promoting Skyfall has the gun barrel at the start, why not the actual film?
    Maybe because the music video is actually not the film, and because the music video doesn't have that "shot" from Deakins ?
    :-))
  • bondsumbondsum
    edited October 2012 Posts: 3,333
    I'm not sure you can look forward to something that you're not 100% guaranteed is going to be there next time, @Samuel001. Besides, this discussion has evolved into the merits of moving the GB and whether it's for artistic reasons or simply transfiguration purposes only. I placed the Cubby quote above to remind people here as to why it worked in the first place and that Cubby understood its magical properties and its importance.

    I hope that the GB is back next time where it belongs... but then I had the same hopes for Skyfall so I won't hold my breath.
  • Gareth00789Gareth00789
    edited October 2012 Posts: 655
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    PanchitoPistoles wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Is everyone seriously saying that this decision was made just so that they didnt offend Deakins and ruin his shot?

    What the hell are you smoking? The decision was made because Sam Mendes thought that the gunbarrel worked better at the end of the film. The decision has nothing to do with Deakins.

    THANK GOD the Bond films are NOT made by Bond fans!

    Mendes has said the decision was made because he didnt see how he could go from that into the film without ruining Deakins opening shot. Well sorry Roger the gunbarrel starts the film - think of a new opening shot.

    The fact that it sort of works at the end because all the rebooted elements are now nicely in place doesnt get away from the fact that we want it up top to tell us 'You are now watching a BOND film FFS'.

    But the Gun Barrel is seperate to the film in a way, so it should open no matter how the film starts. Im not even bothered now if the gun barrel opens future films. For me personaly, it had to open with skyfall. Qos ended iwth it, so this ending with it feels messy. they made a mistake i feel, even though the film is great.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    bondsum wrote:
    I'm not sure you can look forward to something that you're not 100% guaranteed is going to be there next time, @Samuel001.

    I'll live in hope. It should open the next film but now three films without it, who knows what will happen next...
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Gareth00789 wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    PanchitoPistoles wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Is everyone seriously saying that this decision was made just so that they didnt offend Deakins and ruin his shot?

    What the hell are you smoking? The decision was made because Sam Mendes thought that the gunbarrel worked better at the end of the film. The decision has nothing to do with Deakins.

    THANK GOD the Bond films are NOT made by Bond fans!

    Mendes has said the decision was made because he didnt see how he could go from that into the film without ruining Deakins opening shot. Well sorry Roger the gunbarrel starts the film - think of a new opening shot.

    The fact that it sort of works at the end because all the rebooted elements are now nicely in place doesnt get away from the fact that we want it up top to tell us 'You are now watching a BOND film FFS'.

    But the Gun Barrel is seperate to the film in a way, so it should open no matter how the film starts. Im not even bothered now if the gun barrel opens future films. For me personaly, it had to open with skyfall. Qos ended iwth it, so this ending with it feels messy. they made a mistake i feel, even though the film is great.

    The only way it would all make any vague kind of sense is if QOS didnt have one at all and then at the end of SF Bond is fully rebooted and back to normal -
    we have a new M in the classic office, a new Moneypenny and a new Q -
    and we are ready for business as usual so we get it then but I really dont think they thought that far ahead and just stuck it in QOS because they thought people would moan without it at all. As it is it was so poorly executed that I would be quite happy without it in QOS.
  • ColonelSunColonelSun
    Posts: 1,493
    Wow there are some nutty comments here about the GB being at the end.

    Plainly Sam Mendes, Stuart Baird (the great and supreme editor), and the producers, all felt that the GB worked better at the end than at the start. This was an artistic decision, and it seems, from Mendes comments reported back from the premiere, that it was his original intention to start the film with the GB but he, and his team, felt that it didn't sit well with the film's opening shot. This is a perfectly reasonable explanation, and I strongly suspect (having not seen the film yet - IMAX tomorrow at 3pm - with a DOP mate of mine) that Mendes made the right choice. The man knows what he's doing.

    So, really, just accept the fact. It's done, and the GB was moved to the end for, what appears to be, a very good "artistic" reason.
  • PDJamesBondPDJamesBond
    Posts: 669
    I have to agree with ColonelSun on this one. Mendes is a passionate Bond fan, and he along with Deakins, Baird, et al, know what they are doing. If they put the gunbarrel at the end, it’s because it works better at the end.

    I was initially upset about this too, but with the reception this film is getting, are we really going to gripe about the placement of the GB? And surely there are more important things in the world to be on about?
  • robboadamrobboadam
    Posts: 224
    ColonelSun wrote:
    Wow there are some nutty comments here about the GB being at the end.

    Plainly Sam Mendes, Stuart Baird (the great and supreme editor), and the producers, all felt that the GB worked better at the end than at the start. This was an artistic decision, and it seems, from Mendes comments reported back from the premiere, that it was his original intention to start the film with the GB but he, and his team, felt that it didn't sit well with the film's opening shot. This is a perfectly reasonable explanation, and I strongly suspect (having not seen the film yet - IMAX tomorrow at 3pm - with a DOP mate of mine) that Mendes made the right choice. The man knows what he's doing.

    So, really, just accept the fact. It's done, and the GB was moved to the end for, what appears to be, a very good "artistic" reason.

    Good evening, Mr. Common Sense. I've been waiting for you....;)
  • MartinBondMartinBond Trying not to muck it up again
    Posts: 862
    The gunbarrel at the end was the icing on the ending scene. as good it could have been at the start, I don't have any problem with it being at the end now. In fact, this makes me wish that Quantum of Solace didn't have a GB, or better still, wasn't made.
  • pjtpjt
    edited October 2012 Posts: 18
    I hope that the Blu-ray and DVD will have a possibility to start the movie with or without the gunbarrel. This is the perfect fan-service media, like the 'Kiss Kiss Bang Bang' titles extra for TB.
    I saw a fan version of QoS starting with the GB and opening to the sea and cars, and it didn't take anything off the intensity (I still hate the car chase because the one second cuts make it a messy blur). It was actually very good.
    I haven't seen the film yet, so I want to decide for myself if the beginning shot was worth losing the GB, but so far I believe Mendes.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,497
    I thought DC was Bond ever since I saw him in CR?

    :\">
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    edited October 2012 Posts: 3,497
    PanchitoPistoles wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Is everyone seriously saying that this decision was made just so that they didnt offend Deakins and ruin his shot?

    What the hell are you smoking? The decision was made because Sam Mendes thought that the gunbarrel worked better at the end of the film. The decision has nothing to do with Deakins.

    THANK GOD the Bond films are NOT made by Bond fans!

    Best.Post.Ever sir.
  • dchantrydchantry
    Posts: 278
    JamesCraig wrote:
    PanchitoPistoles wrote:
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    Is everyone seriously saying that this decision was made just so that they didnt offend Deakins and ruin his shot?

    What the hell are you smoking? The decision was made because Sam Mendes thought that the gunbarrel worked better at the end of the film. The decision has nothing to do with Deakins.

    THANK GOD the Bond films are NOT made by Bond fans!

    Best.Post.Ever sir.

    A Bond film created by fans.
    Gunbarrel opens with DC wearing a hat....Bang, blood.
    Fully opening into a scene of Bond relaxing sporting his 3rd different black wig in the last 3 films and a brand new safari suite up to his chest.
    Chase around europe on 8 different forms of transport ending with throwing the villain off a cliff, walking over to a random girl holding his Martini.
    Kiss
    Bed
    Credits

    ...............Arghhh, I cant take it any more.
    When you see Skyfall, you will understand why the decision is made about the gunbarrel and how the end of the film brings us almost 50 years around to Dr No's beginning, which makes the GB into the 50 years logo, a lot more appealing.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    robboadam wrote:
    ColonelSun wrote:
    Wow there are some nutty comments here about the GB being at the end.

    Plainly Sam Mendes, Stuart Baird (the great and supreme editor), and the producers, all felt that the GB worked better at the end than at the start. This was an artistic decision, and it seems, from Mendes comments reported back from the premiere, that it was his original intention to start the film with the GB but he, and his team, felt that it didn't sit well with the film's opening shot. This is a perfectly reasonable explanation, and I strongly suspect (having not seen the film yet - IMAX tomorrow at 3pm - with a DOP mate of mine) that Mendes made the right choice. The man knows what he's doing.

    So, really, just accept the fact. It's done, and the GB was moved to the end for, what appears to be, a very good "artistic" reason.

    Good evening, Mr. Common Sense. I've been waiting for you....;)

    Can someone just answer me this simple question then - why did Cubby put the GB as the opening shot for 33 years?
  • robboadamrobboadam
    Posts: 224
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    robboadam wrote:
    ColonelSun wrote:
    Wow there are some nutty comments here about the GB being at the end.

    Plainly Sam Mendes, Stuart Baird (the great and supreme editor), and the producers, all felt that the GB worked better at the end than at the start. This was an artistic decision, and it seems, from Mendes comments reported back from the premiere, that it was his original intention to start the film with the GB but he, and his team, felt that it didn't sit well with the film's opening shot. This is a perfectly reasonable explanation, and I strongly suspect (having not seen the film yet - IMAX tomorrow at 3pm - with a DOP mate of mine) that Mendes made the right choice. The man knows what he's doing.

    So, really, just accept the fact. It's done, and the GB was moved to the end for, what appears to be, a very good "artistic" reason.

    Good evening, Mr. Common Sense. I've been waiting for you....;)

    Can someone just answer me this simple question then - why did Cubby put the GB as the opening shot for 33 years?

    Just because it HAS always been done doesn't mean it SHOULD always be done.
  • maxcraigmaxcraig
    Posts: 229
    TheWizardOfIce wrote:
    robboadam wrote:
    ColonelSun wrote:
    Wow there are some nutty comments here about the GB being at the end.

    Plainly Sam Mendes, Stuart Baird (the great and supreme editor), and the producers, all felt that the GB worked better at the end than at the start. This was an artistic decision, and it seems, from Mendes comments reported back from the premiere, that it was his original intention to start the film with the GB but he, and his team, felt that it didn't sit well with the film's opening shot. This is a perfectly reasonable explanation, and I strongly suspect (having not seen the film yet - IMAX tomorrow at 3pm - with a DOP mate of mine) that Mendes made the right choice. The man knows what he's doing.

    So, really, just accept the fact. It's done, and the GB was moved to the end for, what appears to be, a very good "artistic" reason.

    Good evening, Mr. Common Sense. I've been waiting for you....;)

    Can someone just answer me this simple question then - why did Cubby put the GB as the opening shot for 33 years?
    Maybe because he wanted to play safe.
    You should ask him
    :D
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