The Profession of the villain

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  • Posts: 12,526
    A powerful public figure politically maybe? Quantum have fingers in many pies! >-)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    A villain should be to the hero...

    A constant threat, and someone who knows every little thing about them down to the trifles (as they are the most important), like their favorite color and breakfast of choice. The villain is the hero's absolute equal, in every one of their faculties from the physical to the mental. The villain is the "arch-enemy", the end all-be all danger to the hero and will do anything to get their leverage against them, whether is attacking those they love or destroy their home turf; anything they find comfort and balance in. The villain challenges our hero in ways that other enemies fail to, and may have at times been a dear friend, ally or mentor to the hero. The villain will use everything the hero finds advantageous against them, leveling the field so that the game is easier for them to have for the taking, and to also cripple the hero and make the trials harder for them to surmount. Often, the villain is the hero's destined enemy, the one they were meant to face by fate. Their contentious fight with each other is often a long journey, where both have faced each other before and both know the other like the palm of their hand, making each subsequent battle more taxing and exhaustive for both of them. Oftentimes the only way the hero is able to defeat the villain is alone and face to face, where the likelihood is raised of the hero having to die with the villain to succeed. The hero is dedicated to their duty, and see their death as worthwhile, necessary and for the good of humanity if they take the villain down with them. So is the relationship between the hero and their villain.

  • Posts: 15,106
    A villain should be to the hero...

    A constant threat, and someone who knows every little thing about them down to the trifles (as they are the most important), like their favorite color and breakfast of choice. The villain is the hero's absolute equal, in every one of their faculties from the physical to the mental. The villain is the "arch-enemy", the end all-be all danger to the hero and will do anything to get their leverage against them, whether is attacking those they love or destroy their home turf; anything they find comfort and balance in. The villain challenges our hero in ways that other enemies fail to, and may have at times been a dear friend, ally or mentor to the hero. The villain will use everything the hero finds advantageous against them, leveling the field so that the game is easier for them to have for the taking, and to also cripple the hero and make the trials harder for them to surmount. Often, the villain is the hero's destined enemy, the one they were meant to face by fate. Their contentious fight with each other is often a long journey, where both have faced each other before and both know the other like the palm of their hand, making each subsequent battle more taxing and exhaustive for both of them. Oftentimes the only way the hero is able to defeat the villain is alone and face to face, where the likelihood is raised of the hero having to die with the villain to succeed. The hero is dedicated to their duty, and see their death as worthwhile, necessary and for the good of humanity if they take the villain down with them. So is the relationship between the hero and their villain.

    Okay so... What does the villain do for a living?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Ludovico wrote:
    A villain should be to the hero...

    A constant threat, and someone who knows every little thing about them down to the trifles (as they are the most important), like their favorite color and breakfast of choice. The villain is the hero's absolute equal, in every one of their faculties from the physical to the mental. The villain is the "arch-enemy", the end all-be all danger to the hero and will do anything to get their leverage against them, whether is attacking those they love or destroy their home turf; anything they find comfort and balance in. The villain challenges our hero in ways that other enemies fail to, and may have at times been a dear friend, ally or mentor to the hero. The villain will use everything the hero finds advantageous against them, leveling the field so that the game is easier for them to have for the taking, and to also cripple the hero and make the trials harder for them to surmount. Often, the villain is the hero's destined enemy, the one they were meant to face by fate. Their contentious fight with each other is often a long journey, where both have faced each other before and both know the other like the palm of their hand, making each subsequent battle more taxing and exhaustive for both of them. Oftentimes the only way the hero is able to defeat the villain is alone and face to face, where the likelihood is raised of the hero having to die with the villain to succeed. The hero is dedicated to their duty, and see their death as worthwhile, necessary and for the good of humanity if they take the villain down with them. So is the relationship between the hero and their villain.

    Okay so... What does the villain do for a living?

    Good question.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    It could be anything, true. But to come up with a twist to the usual is not easy.
    I like the master thief idea from @thelivingroyale.

    Other thoughts: I'd like it to be a scientist or researcher who is backed by big bucks from the pharmaceutical giants. Whatever profession, I want the villain to be truly menacing and clever and creepy.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited April 2013 Posts: 18,264
    How about a government scientist from Porton Down who's going to use his chemical warfare to deadly results or a Russian Federation version of this? It could be more than a retread of OHMSS!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Does it really matter?

    Apart from Russians, SPECTRE and various criminal types we have had: Goldfinger a metallurgist, Zorin a businessman, Sanchez a drug dealer, Carver a newspaper magnate, Elektra an oil heiress. And what?

    Isn't it all about the caper?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    It is all about the caper and a good script. And we need a strong enough villain - no matter that the profession - to help the film be great.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited April 2013 Posts: 18,264
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Yes, but we've got David Dratgonpol to use, make better if need be - the template's there at least. Would you be opposed to a film version of Never Send Flowers at all? I know Eon won't touch Gardner with a ten foot barge pole, of course.

    Dragonpol - I find a lot of your posts interesting but please do stop banging on about Never Send Flowers.

    EON are not going to make any of the Gardner books anytime soon and if they did there are far better Gardner stories than this which came in the post Win Lose or Die era of Gardner when he had long since run out of interest and inspiration.

    Ain't never going to happen old son and frankly thank Christ for that.

    You know I can't keep stoom about it. Look at my username for heaven's sake! I'm writing a monograph on this novel to be published in July 2013 for the Anniversary of the publication of the novel on 15 July 1993. See The Bondologist Blog in time. I may make a believer out of you yet, Ice, if not a belieber!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Oooooh don't say "belieber" ! That hurts. I haven't eaten breakfast yet. ;)

    I will check out your blog again; there are many interesting articles in it. I'll get around to reading more of the continuation novels later this year.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Oooooh don't say "belieber" ! That hurts. I haven't eaten breakfast yet. ;)

    I will check out your blog again; there are many interesting articles in it. I'll get around to reading more of the continuation novels later this year.

    Yes, I hope to get some new content up on the blog soon - I plan 60 or so articles by 2013-2014 period. I'm quite ambitious, shall we say?! The believer bit was a joke - he even thought Anne Frank was a fan?!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Ludovico wrote:
    A villain should be to the hero...

    A constant threat, and someone who knows every little thing about them down to the trifles (as they are the most important), like their favorite color and breakfast of choice. The villain is the hero's absolute equal, in every one of their faculties from the physical to the mental. The villain is the "arch-enemy", the end all-be all danger to the hero and will do anything to get their leverage against them, whether is attacking those they love or destroy their home turf; anything they find comfort and balance in. The villain challenges our hero in ways that other enemies fail to, and may have at times been a dear friend, ally or mentor to the hero. The villain will use everything the hero finds advantageous against them, leveling the field so that the game is easier for them to have for the taking, and to also cripple the hero and make the trials harder for them to surmount. Often, the villain is the hero's destined enemy, the one they were meant to face by fate. Their contentious fight with each other is often a long journey, where both have faced each other before and both know the other like the palm of their hand, making each subsequent battle more taxing and exhaustive for both of them. Oftentimes the only way the hero is able to defeat the villain is alone and face to face, where the likelihood is raised of the hero having to die with the villain to succeed. The hero is dedicated to their duty, and see their death as worthwhile, necessary and for the good of humanity if they take the villain down with them. So is the relationship between the hero and their villain.

    Okay so... What does the villain do for a living?

    I was simply stating my view of what a villain should be, but in fact they can be anything and everything I you wish to know. Often their jobs and possible credentials keep suspicions away from their villainy and allow them to commit their crimes unrestricted.

    Think Moriarty and his mathematical talents that he teaches as a professor and author in the world of Holmes.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Oooooh don't say "belieber" ! That hurts. I haven't eaten breakfast yet. ;)

    I will check out your blog again; there are many interesting articles in it. I'll get around to reading more of the continuation novels later this year.

    Yes, I hope to get some new content up on the blog soon - I plan 60 or so articles by 2013-2014 period. I'm quite ambitious, shall we say?! The believer bit was a joke - he even thought Anne Frank was a fan?!

    I got it that the Belieber bit was a joke. (he is such a jerk; the Anne Frank comment is illuminating).

    The Bond villain is important and I am all for him having a different profession. How about an archaeologist? (An evil version of Indy??)
  • Posts: 15,106
    Does it really matter?

    Apart from Russians, SPECTRE and various criminal types we have had: Goldfinger a metallurgist, Zorin a businessman, Sanchez a drug dealer, Carver a newspaper magnate, Elektra an oil heiress. And what?

    Isn't it all about the caper?

    Well, it does matter. Because Bond will run against certain types of criminals. If I am a bank robber or a con artist, I have little chance to interest MI6, however good I am. If I am a weapon dealer selling to terrorist organizations, or a specialist in explosives paid to blow up Royal Navy ships, it is another matter entirely. It is about the caper, yes, but also about how to create motivations.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Ludovico wrote:
    A villain should be to the hero...

    A constant threat, and someone who knows every little thing about them down to the trifles (as they are the most important), like their favorite color and breakfast of choice. The villain is the hero's absolute equal, in every one of their faculties from the physical to the mental. The villain is the "arch-enemy", the end all-be all danger to the hero and will do anything to get their leverage against them, whether is attacking those they love or destroy their home turf; anything they find comfort and balance in. The villain challenges our hero in ways that other enemies fail to, and may have at times been a dear friend, ally or mentor to the hero. The villain will use everything the hero finds advantageous against them, leveling the field so that the game is easier for them to have for the taking, and to also cripple the hero and make the trials harder for them to surmount. Often, the villain is the hero's destined enemy, the one they were meant to face by fate. Their contentious fight with each other is often a long journey, where both have faced each other before and both know the other like the palm of their hand, making each subsequent battle more taxing and exhaustive for both of them. Oftentimes the only way the hero is able to defeat the villain is alone and face to face, where the likelihood is raised of the hero having to die with the villain to succeed. The hero is dedicated to their duty, and see their death as worthwhile, necessary and for the good of humanity if they take the villain down with them. So is the relationship between the hero and their villain.

    Okay so... What does the villain do for a living?

    I was simply stating my view of what a villain should be, but in fact they can be anything and everything I you wish to know. Often their jobs and possible credentials keep suspicions away from their villainy and allow them to commit their crimes unrestricted.

    Think Moriarty and his mathematical talents that he teaches as a professor and author in the world of Holmes.

    Oh I dream of a Moriarty type of villain in Bond movies! Other than Blofeld, I mean. Who shares a few things with Moriarty.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Ludovico wrote:
    Does it really matter?

    Apart from Russians, SPECTRE and various criminal types we have had: Goldfinger a metallurgist, Zorin a businessman, Sanchez a drug dealer, Carver a newspaper magnate, Elektra an oil heiress. And what?

    Isn't it all about the caper?

    Well, it does matter. Because Bond will run against certain types of criminals. If I am a bank robber or a con artist, I have little chance to interest MI6, however good I am. If I am a weapon dealer selling to terrorist organizations, or a specialist in explosives paid to blow up Royal Navy ships, it is another matter entirely. It is about the caper, yes, but also about how to create motivations.

    Very true, my good sir. A good point well made. You've hit the nail firmly on the head, there.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Ludovico wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    A villain should be to the hero...

    A constant threat, and someone who knows every little thing about them down to the trifles (as they are the most important), like their favorite color and breakfast of choice. The villain is the hero's absolute equal, in every one of their faculties from the physical to the mental. The villain is the "arch-enemy", the end all-be all danger to the hero and will do anything to get their leverage against them, whether is attacking those they love or destroy their home turf; anything they find comfort and balance in. The villain challenges our hero in ways that other enemies fail to, and may have at times been a dear friend, ally or mentor to the hero. The villain will use everything the hero finds advantageous against them, leveling the field so that the game is easier for them to have for the taking, and to also cripple the hero and make the trials harder for them to surmount. Often, the villain is the hero's destined enemy, the one they were meant to face by fate. Their contentious fight with each other is often a long journey, where both have faced each other before and both know the other like the palm of their hand, making each subsequent battle more taxing and exhaustive for both of them. Oftentimes the only way the hero is able to defeat the villain is alone and face to face, where the likelihood is raised of the hero having to die with the villain to succeed. The hero is dedicated to their duty, and see their death as worthwhile, necessary and for the good of humanity if they take the villain down with them. So is the relationship between the hero and their villain.

    Okay so... What does the villain do for a living?

    I was simply stating my view of what a villain should be, but in fact they can be anything and everything I you wish to know. Often their jobs and possible credentials keep suspicions away from their villainy and allow them to commit their crimes unrestricted.

    Think Moriarty and his mathematical talents that he teaches as a professor and author in the world of Holmes.

    Oh I dream of a Moriarty type of villain in Bond movies! Other than Blofeld, I mean. Who shares a few things with Moriarty.

    And if only Bond hadn't faked his death so much already, we could have a Bond film end in a face to face fight where both Bond and the Moriarty-type villain appear to die.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Maybe a long way down the road they could do something like this. They can certainly do it for the villain.

    And, back on topic, this thing about Moriarty me thing that an academic villain could work beautifully.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    An evil academic archaeologist who has found something to terrorize the world with - maybe something buried in Antarctica or ... well somewhere else. Anyway, I hope the current writers are coming up with something worthwhile for the villain, I really do.
  • Posts: 15,106
    An evil academic archaeologist who has found something to terrorize the world with - maybe something buried in Antarctica or ... well somewhere else. Anyway, I hope the current writers are coming up with something worthwhile for the villain, I really do.

    Sounds like something from an Indiana Jones movie. I would rather think of a chemist, a biochemist, or even a mathematician.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    An evil academic archaeologist who has found something to terrorize the world with - maybe something buried in Antarctica or ... well somewhere else. Anyway, I hope the current writers are coming up with something worthwhile for the villain, I really do.
    Well, they brought us Silva, so I think we can be confident they will deliver again.
  • Posts: 15,106
    An evil academic archaeologist who has found something to terrorize the world with - maybe something buried in Antarctica or ... well somewhere else. Anyway, I hope the current writers are coming up with something worthwhile for the villain, I really do.
    Well, they brought us Silva, so I think we can be confident they will deliver again.

    The challenge here is to make the new villain great, but different from Silva. Matching, even topping it, yet not repeating it.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited April 2013 Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Yes, but we've got David Dratgonpol to use, make better if need be - the template's there at least. Would you be opposed to a film version of Never Send Flowers at all? I know Eon won't touch Gardner with a ten foot barge pole, of course.

    Dragonpol - I find a lot of your posts interesting but please do stop banging on about Never Send Flowers.

    EON are not going to make any of the Gardner books anytime soon and if they did there are far better Gardner stories than this which came in the post Win Lose or Die era of Gardner when he had long since run out of interest and inspiration.

    Ain't never going to happen old son and frankly thank Christ for that.

    You know I can't keep stoom about it. Look at my username for heaven's sake! I'm writing a monograph on this novel to be published in July 2013 for the Anniversary of the publication of the novel on 15 July 1993. See The Bondologist Blog in time. I may make a believer out of you yet, Ice, if not a belieber!

    I think you have a lot of good and interesting points to make about Bond but I worry this inexplicable obsession with NSF may turn you into something of a Nigel Farage figure - a one issue party with nothing to offer on much more important subjects.

    I like a lot of Gardners Bond novels but never going to be a believer here I'm afraid.
  • The villain could be a dictator of a fictional country. 006 talks about "toppling all those dictators", but we never saw Bond going against one. LALDs Dr Kananga came closest to that.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Yes, but we've got David Dragonpol to use, make better if need be - the template's there at least. Would you be opposed to a film version of Never Send Flowers at all? I know Eon won't touch Gardner with a ten foot barge pole, of course.

    Dragonpol - I find a lot of your posts interesting but please do stop banging on about Never Send Flowers.

    EON are not going to make any of the Gardner books anytime soon and if they did there are far better Gardner stories than this which came in the post Win Lose or Die era of Gardner when he had long since run out of interest and inspiration.

    Ain't never going to happen old son and frankly thank Christ for that.

    You know I can't keep stoom about it. Look at my username for heaven's sake! I'm writing a monograph on this novel to be published in July 2013 for the Anniversary of the publication of the novel on 15 July 1993. See The Bondologist Blog in time. I may make a believer out of you yet, Ice, if not a belieber!

    I think you have a lot of good and interesting points to make about Bond but I worry this inexplicable obsession with NSF may turn you into something of a Nigel Farage figure - a one issue party with nothing to offer on much more important subjects.

    I like a lot of Gardners Bond novels but never going to be a believer here I'm afraid.

    I take your point, though a look at my topic list on The Bondologist Blog should tell you that I'm not a one-issue Bond fan by any means. NSF is just one of my Bondian interests - it's far from being my only one, but I'm guessing that you knew that already.
  • Posts: 15,106
    The villain could be a dictator of a fictional country. 006 talks about "toppling all those dictators", but we never saw Bond going against one. LALDs Dr Kananga came closest to that.

    I am not a big fan of fictitious countries in Bond movies (or in movies in general), but this could work depending of the motivations and modus operandi of the villain. If a dictator is a direct threat to the UK, they would go to war against him, Bond would not be involved, or very little, and this would be more politic fiction than actual spy fiction. But if say for some reason he needs to be removed quietly, then you may have a plot.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    RogueAgent wrote:
    A powerful public figure politically maybe? Quantum have fingers in many pies! >-)

    That's another good one. I love your smilie! I've always had a thing for an MP being a minor villain using his political acumen to frustate James Bond at every step of the way - he could be a rogue junior minister in the MoD or some such. I once wrote a (not very good) short story around the idea of a villainous MP. It all seems so fitting now after the 2009 Expenses Scandal here in the UK as well as the general dislike of politicians that resulted in the Hung Parliament Party winning the May 2010 General Election.
  • Posts: 15,106
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RogueAgent wrote:
    A powerful public figure politically maybe? Quantum have fingers in many pies! >-)

    That's another good one. I love your smilie! I've always had a thing for an MP being a minor villain using his political acumen to frustate James Bond at every step of the way - he could be a rogue junior minister in the MoD or some such. I once wrote a (not very good) short story around the idea of a villainous MP. It all seems so fitting now after the 2009 Expenses Scandal here in the UK as well as the general dislike of politicians that resulted in the Hung Parliament Party winning the May 2010 General Election.

    Guy Haines was a bit like this, not a politician but an important political advisor. He could of course show up again.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RogueAgent wrote:
    A powerful public figure politically maybe? Quantum have fingers in many pies! >-)

    That's another good one. I love your smilie! I've always had a thing for an MP being a minor villain using his political acumen to frustate James Bond at every step of the way - he could be a rogue junior minister in the MoD or some such. I once wrote a (not very good) short story around the idea of a villainous MP. It all seems so fitting now after the 2009 Expenses Scandal here in the UK as well as the general dislike of politicians that resulted in the Hung Parliament Party winning the May 2010 General Election.

    Guy Haines was a bit like this, not a politician but an important political advisor. He could of course show up again.

    Yes, I meant to mention him, he was a political advisor to the Prime Minister Gordon Brown (quite subversive at the time when you think about it). But an MP is new in terms of both the novels and films - and it's very rare to get that nowadays with a phenomenon so deep and broad as that of James Bond.

  • Posts: 15,106
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RogueAgent wrote:
    A powerful public figure politically maybe? Quantum have fingers in many pies! >-)

    That's another good one. I love your smilie! I've always had a thing for an MP being a minor villain using his political acumen to frustate James Bond at every step of the way - he could be a rogue junior minister in the MoD or some such. I once wrote a (not very good) short story around the idea of a villainous MP. It all seems so fitting now after the 2009 Expenses Scandal here in the UK as well as the general dislike of politicians that resulted in the Hung Parliament Party winning the May 2010 General Election.

    Guy Haines was a bit like this, not a politician but an important political advisor. He could of course show up again.

    Yes, I meant to mention him, he was a political advisor to the Prime Minister Gordon Brown (quite subversive at the time when you think about it). But an MP is new in terms of both the novels and films - and it's very rare to get that nowadays with a phenomenon so deep and broad as that of James Bond.

    Well, which particular PM is not mentioned, but yes Gordon Brown was PM at the time (given Haines's importance, he must have been there when Blair was in power, maybe even John Major). A MP would be different, but could bring all sorts of problems, his political affiliations for one. Guy Haines might very well be non partisan and have friends on both sides of the Parliament, which is the case of many high ranking civil servants.
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