A question to those who care not for Brosnan's Bond

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    I'm going to watch Pierce along with Salma Hayek tonight (love that woman) in 2004's "After The Sunset" where they star as 2 retired jewel thieves.
    The definition of 'guilty pleasure.' I own it; I love it!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,219
    I thought Brosnan gave his best performance as Bond since TND in After The Sunset.
  • Posts: 6,396
    I'd say The Matador is my fav performance of his.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I thought Brosnan gave his best performance as Bond since TND in After The Sunset.
    I cannot refute this.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,298
    I'd say The Matador is my fav performance of his.

    Indeed. Very effective. He is a great actor, no denying that, though many would try to, of course!
  • Posts: 2,402
    I'm going to watch Pierce long with Salma Hayek tonight (love that woman) in 2004's "After The Sunset" where they star as 2 retired jewel thieves.

    HENRY YOU'RE A YOUNG MAN, DON'T DO IT!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,298
    I'm going to watch Pierce long with Salma Hayek tonight (love that woman) in 2004's "After The Sunset" where they star as 2 retired jewel thieves.

    HENRY YOU'RE A YOUNG MAN, DON'T DO IT!

    I've not seen it myself, though I remember its being discussed over on CBn at the time.
  • Posts: 2,402
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I'm going to watch Pierce long with Salma Hayek tonight (love that woman) in 2004's "After The Sunset" where they star as 2 retired jewel thieves.

    HENRY YOU'RE A YOUNG MAN, DON'T DO IT!

    I've not seen it myself, though I remember its being discussed over on CBn at the time.

    Oh it's bad. It's been years since I saw it but I think even DAD might've put it to shame.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,298
    Dragonpol wrote:
    I'm going to watch Pierce long with Salma Hayek tonight (love that woman) in 2004's "After The Sunset" where they star as 2 retired jewel thieves.

    HENRY YOU'RE A YOUNG MAN, DON'T DO IT!

    I've not seen it myself, though I remember its being discussed over on CBn at the time.

    Oh it's bad. It's been years since I saw it but I think even DAD might've put it to shame.

    Oh, I see. One to avoid then? I've seen very few films Pierce Brosnan did outside of Bond, I'm shamed to say.
  • Posts: 15,159
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    With regard to the title, it's not about 'not caring'. I care about any actor that has the great honor of playing James Bond, regardless of how good or bad a job they make of it. Brosnan was, and is, a well recognized and established actor of caliber, but I just never really took to him as Bond. Just didn't have the feel of Bond, as License to Kill doesn't have the feel of a real Bond movie. I don't hate Brosnan as Bond, I don't hate any Bond actor, there's no real distaste, just at times, you watch the Irishman in the part, and you think to yourself "Shouldn't you be somewhere else and not portraying this iconic figure"

    Brosnan enthusiasts won't be pleased to hear it, but can never really change that thinking

    "Oh, right I get you now, it's because he's Irish is it?"
    Taken from a Northern Ireland sketch show and spouted by a little male character dressed as a leprechaun (though of course he said "...because I'm Irish..."), but very true, as all good comedy ultimately is in the end.

    In all seriousness, I do think Pierce Brosnan WAS James Bond - the man was born to play the part, for sure. At times, he was a little strangely off as an actor (he was otherwise great) I did feel - especially in some of his confrontational scenes with Elektra King, though I rate TWINE very highly as a Bond film and general precursor to what they did in CR. There, I said it and will defend it to my last man.

    Funny, I too consider TWINE a precursor of CR, however flawed it was. It was like the series was at a cross road, being utterly undecided where to go, and then took the wrong route with DAD.

    I thank you for your agreement and support. I think it is an outstanding film, possibly even Brosnan's best but it gets little love on Bond forums for some reason. There is definitely a "connect" with CR there, but just whisper it for the minute while I hold off the wolves.

    Oh I don't think it is outstanding, in fact an interview with Michael Apted when he came up as quite arrogant towards it made me see it in a new, negative light. That said with all its flaws it does show the roots of CR.
    Am I one of those wolves per chance?

    Sorry fellas, but I can't agree with TWINE (a bottom fiver for me) and would like to hear what the connect is with CR past another round of corpse kissing. And please don't try to convince me that the ham fisted melodrama that was Bond's romance with Elektra even began to approach what we saw in CR. I honestly laughed so hard yesterday that my gut still hurts.

    TWINE I will always remember for the beautiful Sophie (her in that red casino dress is the stuff of erotic dreams for men of all ages), the return of Robbie Coltrane as Zukovsky, and sadly the last film for the beloved Desmond Llewellyn as Q. Good PTS that got the movie off to a great start. That's about all that stood out as above average. I thought Pierce reached his pinnacle in TND and from there it was all mostly forgettable until CR for me became easily the best film released since the Dalton era.

    I am talking about the quality of the movie, but about certain similarities (terrorism as the backdrop, a terrorist villain, a Bond girl that ultimately betrays Bond as the center of the plot, etc.). That it was ham fisted is beside the point. YOLT, TSWLM and MR are pretty much the same movie, with cosmetic differences, heck one could even consider YOLT a bigger, dumber, bastardised DN.

    Oh and I am not saying CR is inspired by TWINE. But that they were then considering the same approach.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,298
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    With regard to the title, it's not about 'not caring'. I care about any actor that has the great honor of playing James Bond, regardless of how good or bad a job they make of it. Brosnan was, and is, a well recognized and established actor of caliber, but I just never really took to him as Bond. Just didn't have the feel of Bond, as License to Kill doesn't have the feel of a real Bond movie. I don't hate Brosnan as Bond, I don't hate any Bond actor, there's no real distaste, just at times, you watch the Irishman in the part, and you think to yourself "Shouldn't you be somewhere else and not portraying this iconic figure"

    Brosnan enthusiasts won't be pleased to hear it, but can never really change that thinking

    "Oh, right I get you now, it's because he's Irish is it?"
    Taken from a Northern Ireland sketch show and spouted by a little male character dressed as a leprechaun (though of course he said "...because I'm Irish..."), but very true, as all good comedy ultimately is in the end.

    In all seriousness, I do think Pierce Brosnan WAS James Bond - the man was born to play the part, for sure. At times, he was a little strangely off as an actor (he was otherwise great) I did feel - especially in some of his confrontational scenes with Elektra King, though I rate TWINE very highly as a Bond film and general precursor to what they did in CR. There, I said it and will defend it to my last man.

    Funny, I too consider TWINE a precursor of CR, however flawed it was. It was like the series was at a cross road, being utterly undecided where to go, and then took the wrong route with DAD.

    I thank you for your agreement and support. I think it is an outstanding film, possibly even Brosnan's best but it gets little love on Bond forums for some reason. There is definitely a "connect" with CR there, but just whisper it for the minute while I hold off the wolves.

    Oh I don't think it is outstanding, in fact an interview with Michael Apted when he came up as quite arrogant towards it made me see it in a new, negative light. That said with all its flaws it does show the roots of CR.
    Am I one of those wolves per chance?

    Sorry fellas, but I can't agree with TWINE (a bottom fiver for me) and would like to hear what the connect is with CR past another round of corpse kissing. And please don't try to convince me that the ham fisted melodrama that was Bond's romance with Elektra even began to approach what we saw in CR. I honestly laughed so hard yesterday that my gut still hurts.

    TWINE I will always remember for the beautiful Sophie (her in that red casino dress is the stuff of erotic dreams for men of all ages), the return of Robbie Coltrane as Zukovsky, and sadly the last film for the beloved Desmond Llewellyn as Q. Good PTS that got the movie off to a great start. That's about all that stood out as above average. I thought Pierce reached his pinnacle in TND and from there it was all mostly forgettable until CR for me became easily the best film released since the Dalton era.

    I am talking about the quality of the movie, but about certain similarities (terrorism as the backdrop, a terrorist villain, a Bond girl that ultimately betrays Bond as the center of the plot, etc.). That it was ham fisted is beside the point. YOLT, TSWLM and MR are pretty much the same movie, with cosmetic differences, heck one could even consider YOLT a bigger, dumber, bastardised DN.

    Oh and I am not saying CR is inspired by TWINE. But that they were then considering the same approach.

    I'm in agreement, apart from the ham-fisted part. I think TWINE both reflected many of the films that went before and many of those that came after too. I really don't get all of the bashing it receives on the Bond boards. The insertion of the action scenes is no less contrived than say TSWLM (see my article here on that: http://www.thebondologistblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/kingsley-amis-draxs-gambit-and-reform.html) and it certainly does show the roots of the later CR more than anything, even though I know full well it's not popular to say that nowadays.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 3,494
    I'm going to watch Pierce long with Salma Hayek tonight (love that woman) in 2004's "After The Sunset" where they star as 2 retired jewel thieves.

    HENRY YOU'RE A YOUNG MAN, DON'T DO IT!

    :)) too late for that, I'm afraid.

    Ok, TCA it was not. Really just an average theft caper kind of film, the way the theft of the 3rd Napoleon diamond was done was not as original as what was seen in TCA. It reminded me of something more out of "It Takes A Thief" but I like that stuff anyway so it was fine. Brosnan was not as good as he was in TCA, but still better for me than in his last two Bond films in this role. Woody Harrelson and Pierce were very funny together and worked well. Salma Hayek? In bathing suits and lingerie? She can call me "Sir Woody" :P


  • Posts: 6,396
    I'm going to watch Pierce long with Salma Hayek tonight (love that woman) in 2004's "After The Sunset" where they star as 2 retired jewel thieves.

    HENRY YOU'RE A YOUNG MAN, DON'T DO IT!

    :)) too late for that, I'm afraid.

    Ok, TCA it was not. Really just an average theft caper kind of film, the way the theft of the 3rd Napoleon diamond was done was not as original as the what was seen as TCA. It reminded me of something more out of "It Takes A Thief" but I like that stuff anyway so it was fine. Brosnan was not as good as he was in TCA, but still better for me than in his last two Bond films in this role. Woody Harrelson and Pierce were very funny together and worked well. Salma Hayek? In bathing suits and lingerie? She can call me "Sir Woody" :P


    There's a great clip of a prank played on Brosnan in this film but I can't find it on YouTube.
  • I really should have also mentioned our new Moneypenny in Naomie Harris was also in the film as a Bahamian cop and Harrelson's love interest, and did a fine job.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    It reminded me of something more out of "It Takes A Thief" but I like that stuff anyway so it was fine.
    I really, really should not like that movie so much.... but I do.
  • Posts: 135
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I thought Brosnan gave his best performance as Bond since TND in After The Sunset.
    Surely Mr. Brosnan plays another man in After the Sunset...
  • Every time I hear someone criticize Brosnan, I hurt a little.

    As such? that is how close I feel to his Bond when watching. He brings the empathy and pathos.

    James-Bond-James-Bond-agent-007-smiley-emoticon-001277-facebook.gif
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,298
    Every time I hear someone criticize Brosnan, I hurt a little.

    As such? that is how close I feel to his Bond when watching. He brings the empathy and pathos.

    James-Bond-James-Bond-agent-007-smiley-emoticon-001277-facebook.gif

    Yes, so do I in a way. Brosnan gets a lot of bashing on Bond sites these days. If it was all justified I wouldn't mind, but it's not.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 686
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Every time I hear someone criticize Brosnan, I hurt a little.

    As such? that is how close I feel to his Bond when watching. He brings the empathy and pathos.

    James-Bond-James-Bond-agent-007-smiley-emoticon-001277-facebook.gif

    Yes, so do I in a way. Brosnan gets a lot of bashing on Bond sites these days. If it was all justified I wouldn't mind, but it's not.

    I agree. I think the problem is that Bonds get blamed for things they had no control over. John Glen was responsible for most of short comings and overuse of humor doing the Moore-Bond era, which most of Moore-era, 80%, was good. Poor scriptwriting and PC, at the approval of Babs and Mikey, was the death of Broz-Bond and will be the undoing of Craig-Bond.
  • Perdogg wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Every time I hear someone criticize Brosnan, I hurt a little.

    As such? that is how close I feel to his Bond when watching. He brings the empathy and pathos.

    James-Bond-James-Bond-agent-007-smiley-emoticon-001277-facebook.gif

    Yes, so do I in a way. Brosnan gets a lot of bashing on Bond sites these days. If it was all justified I wouldn't mind, but it's not.

    I agree. I think the problem is that Bonds get blamed for things they had no control over. John Glen was responsible for most of short comings and overuse of humor doing the Moore-Bond era, which most of Moore-era, 80%, was good. Poor scriptwriting and PC, at the approval of Babs and Mikey, was the death of Broz-Bond and will be the undoing of Craig-Bond.

    So you would obviously like to think. Hasn't happened yet Mr. Prophet. The scripts of the current era haven't been perfect, but they were far worse in the latter Brosnan era as far as I am concerned. Craig will never let that level of script ineptitude happen under his watch, you can argue he did for QOS but he isn't a writer and should have never been put in that position. That blame lies fully at the feet of Marc Forster for insisting the original script be scrapped and rewritten with the possibility of a writer's strike looming, and for EON in caving in to his demands. They've acknowledged the mistake and seem to be the sort who learn from those. Purvis and Wade are gone, hence their mistakes that included where SF went off the tracks after Silva was captured should be assumed to be gone as well. Now Logan is fully in charge and it's a whole new ballgame there. When we see different, then perhaps you will have a point.

  • Posts: 686
    Perdogg wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Every time I hear someone criticize Brosnan, I hurt a little.

    As such? that is how close I feel to his Bond when watching. He brings the empathy and pathos.

    James-Bond-James-Bond-agent-007-smiley-emoticon-001277-facebook.gif

    Yes, so do I in a way. Brosnan gets a lot of bashing on Bond sites these days. If it was all justified I wouldn't mind, but it's not.

    I agree. I think the problem is that Bonds get blamed for things they had no control over. John Glen was responsible for most of short comings and overuse of humor doing the Moore-Bond era, which most of Moore-era, 80%, was good. Poor scriptwriting and PC, at the approval of Babs and Mikey, was the death of Broz-Bond and will be the undoing of Craig-Bond.

    So you would obviously like to think. Hasn't happened yet Mr. Prophet. The scripts of the current era haven't been perfect, but they were far worse in the latter Brosnan era as far as I am concerned. Craig will never let that level of script ineptitude happen under his watch, you can argue he did for QOS but he isn't a writer and should have never been put in that position. That blame lies fully at the feet of Marc Forster for insisting the original script be scrapped and rewritten with the possibility of a writer's strike looming, and for EON in caving in to his demands. They've acknowledged the mistake and seem to be the sort who learn from those. Purvis and Wade are gone, hence their mistakes that included where SF went off the tracks after Silva was captured should be assumed to be gone as well. Now Logan is fully in charge and it's a whole new ballgame there. When we see different, then perhaps you will have a point.

    I do not have any hope for any future scripts for Bond movies: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2370820/Seen-The-2005-screenwriting-bible-caused-identical-movies.html
  • It appears that, although I put very little stock in anything I read in a tabloid, you feel this way about movie scriptwriting in general. Formulaic. I didn't see Bond movies mentioned in that article, but fair enough. For me, it's this simple- either you give Logan a chance to improve the storylines, which you appear to have already decided against doing without seeing the next product, or you stop bothering people around here who are still enjoying Bond. See the DCINB site for more information on how exactly you can attempt to do just that.
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 686
    It appears that, although I put very little stock in anything I read in a tabloid, you feel this way about movie scriptwriting in general. Formulaic. I didn't see Bond movies mentioned in that article, but fair enough. For me, it's this simple- either you give Logan a chance to improve the storylines, which you appear to have already decided against doing without seeing the next product, or you stop bothering people around here who are still enjoying Bond. See the DCINB site for more information on how exactly you can attempt to do just that.

    Actually the scene where Silva was captured was the same in which Loki was captured and the same scene where the Joker was captured. It was mentioned in the Slate or Salon coverage of this.

    (last statement withdrawn)
  • Posts: 908
    Perdogg wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Every time I hear someone criticize Brosnan, I hurt a little.

    As such? that is how close I feel to his Bond when watching. He brings the empathy and pathos.

    James-Bond-James-Bond-agent-007-smiley-emoticon-001277-facebook.gif

    Yes, so do I in a way. Brosnan gets a lot of bashing on Bond sites these days. If it was all justified I wouldn't mind, but it's not.

    I agree. I think the problem is that Bonds get blamed for things they had no control over. John Glen was responsible for most of short comings and overuse of humor doing the Moore-Bond era, which most of Moore-era, 80%, was good. Poor scriptwriting and PC, at the approval of Babs and Mikey, was the death of Broz-Bond and will be the undoing of Craig-Bond.

    Craig will never let that level of script ineptitude happen under his watch.

    Yeah,sure. The Guy is starring in a Film, that makes any of Grimms fairy tales look like being written by Descartes himself, but he sure as hell is a Cerberus when it comes to quality scripts. I really wonder how he managed to get all this Love for nothing. As Robert Palmer put it so Long ago: "some guys have all the luck"
  • You're right about the last part. I did reply and I don't have to respond to your posts. I don't disagree with your first statement, it is very similar. The only part of Skyfall that I have a genuine issue with is what happens in regard to Silva's escape and events that follow.The rest can be explained and seen in a different light. There are people who think films like MR and DAD are perfectly fine and entertaining too.

    However, the point of posting around here that you are missing is to engage in honest debate, not to be the winner at all costs like that worm VijayGalore WHO CALLED ME A LIAR just to try to win one. And only succeeded in making himself out to be a complete ass while doing so. If you have something to say here, then you should expect people to disagree and should be willing to accept other's opinions in a respectful manner like a grownup is expected to. If you can't accept that, you shouldn't post.

    @Matt_Helm- I know, I know, we all know how down you are on SF. I've been waiting to discuss that with you but it seems you got down 1-0 and moved on. The above that I bolded is also for your benefit in co-existing around here and also applies to you. I'm not an out and out defender of Skyfall nor blind to certain poor scriptwriting issues. I want it all to make sense and not all of it does, but at least I acknowledge when you make a good point, as I have with @Perdogg and others. No one's opinion is infallible nor factual, it is what it is and tolerance is a virtue sometimes too often lacking here in this site.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    Was it an instant dislike based on a perceived tonal change from Dalton's movies?
    Was it a reconsideration later after his movies had been around a while?
    Is it that you just don't like Brosnan as an actor?
    Yes.
    Yes,
    and yes!

    These are the only reasons people dislike him. Period! And they don't hold up in scrutiny, as the above comments prove.

    I don't care what people say. Yes, maybe Brosnan is bad.. but I like em bad... especially when their good ;)
  • edited August 2013 Posts: 23
    How shouldl I ever dis like the man who saved the world for Bond ?. ;;)
  • Posts: 107
    Too much M in the Brosnan era. Too many scenes where he is seated looking up at her making Bond look weak. All other Bonds stand up in M's office and look M in the eye.

    The creative dept. was at all time low during his run also. He got jobbed. Shame, because he seems like the coolest dude off camera. Weirdly, I like DAD the best.
  • Chang wrote:
    Too much M in the Brosnan era. Too many scenes where he is seated looking up at her making Bond look weak. All other Bonds stand up in M's office and look M in the eye.

    The creative dept. was at all time low during his run also. He got jobbed. Shame, because he seems like the coolest dude off camera. Weirdly, I like DAD the best.

    Does that apply to Craig, too, since M is even more active in his movies? I seem to remember Connery sitting at least once during his scenes with M, although that might just be me. Standing also seems to be a position of greater respect than sitting, which is more casual/comfortable.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    Was it an instant dislike based on a perceived tonal change from Dalton's movies?
    Was it a reconsideration later after his movies had been around a while?
    Is it that you just don't like Brosnan as an actor?

    I'm sincerely curious, because he used to be my favourite Bond actor, however since I've read the Fleming novels & re-discovered Dalton's work, Brosnan has moved down a notch for me, but he's still in 3 of my top 10 Bond movies...

    Was it Die Another Day? Is that what did it? ;)

    The problem I personally have with Brosnan's films is not because of him as an actor. I thought his portrayal of the character was done fairly well. My problem with his films, lies in the writing. I just don't feel that his films were very good story wise, they were really cheesy, Tomorrow Never Dies, The World Is Not Enough, and Die Another Day were just real stinkers but I loved Goldeneye so I don't dislike all of his films.

    I really liked Dalton in The Living Daylights, License to Kill was...well not as good but not horrible. I would have liked to have seen him do one more movie.
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