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Comments
He *is* overly traditional. The guy is 62, he may know one or two things about suits of the 70s and 80s, but he is clearly out of touch with recent developments in the world of fashion.
For now, I expect this thread back on course without the constant childishness of "Irma Bunt and Blofeld are..." when referring to other members.
I think thats the exact problem some have. The suit from Italy in particular is anything but sober.
Words that should never appear next to Bond: trendy and fashion-forward.
I like what I see Bond wearing in SPECTRE. For me it's both bold and classic and that is Bond.
I said exactly what needed to be said. End of.
If you're responding to me, I believe you've misunderstood what I've written. I have not said that Bond should be a time capsule, only wearing suits from the 60s or only wearing what Fleming put him in. I said that Bond should never be trendy or try to be on the cutting edge of fashion. I hope you can see the difference.
Earlier in this thread I suggested at test: if something has been considered to be in good taste for someone in Bond's position for a decade it should be adopted. This allows Bond to change with times but avoids the sort of sartorial mistakes we saw in Roger's tenure. I firmly believe that in 20 years time people will look on the suits from QoS much more favorably than the ones from SF.
Maybe it´s a gadget from Q? Kinda like Moore´s hat at the beginning of OP ;-)?
As a follower of this thread, I tend to very much agree with @Bentley, apart from the flame thrower idea, I think this is not the place for such tools.
I absolutely don´t get why some people think @Villiers53 is trying to shove something down their throat. If he´s being repetitive, dear me, most of us are, but hardly anyone in such an amusing fashion. In fact, I find this thread to be far more informative and entertaining than most of the other threads, because there are some individuals here who give the impression they are talking on a professional level, which is not very common on an internet forum.
I agree that the Irma-Blunt repetitiveness is neither clever nor appropriate. But I recall the first instance being a response to a pretty aggressive scolding by you, @Germanlady. Please correct me if I´m wrong!
It didn't strike me as outlandish though. And people should take a grip: you have a tight suit, it is too tight and Bond looks like a bodyguard or a security agent. You have a suit a bit loose and well, now he suddenly looks like a dwarf? Should the suit have two buttons, three buttons? How many holes in the buttons, two or four?
And he has many times expounded on some of the differences between fashion and style, stating his opinion (and naming it as such, not shoving it down anyone´s throat) that Bond should be more about style than about fashion.
I don´t believe such comments, from whichever side, justified or not, are constructive to this thread.
Not negative for its own sake, but sometimes nitpicking.
An honest question: what do people here think will be said about the very tight look of Craig's SF suits in 20 years time?
Really just very short, because I think, we are behind this now and only to answer you.
My first post addressing Villiers and his way of commenting:
Thank you. Consider me "well advided".
You see, my post was polite and respectful. His answer sarcastic. He has a way of hiding his aggression behind well phrased words. but its still there. If you care to have a look back, many of those posters are gone, most likely due to his lectures, that won't allow other opinions.
My next post was harmless, too.Then he started praising Mc.Queen for having elegance and whatnot and DC - NOT, which is just plein wrong,. I gave an example of his elegance and we went from there.
You say the way to judge a Bond film's outfits is how they stand the test of time, the only way of knowing that is to look back at them in the future, you can't judge how they'll be seen then, now.
Just an element of finesse when discussing the outfits that James Bond should be wearing. This is the thread for such discussion and I personally would be very surprised and disappointed if there wasn't such detailed & deliberate conversation about Bond's wear. Clothing and tailoring is all about the little details. Bond himself is all about details and finesse. That is what some fans enjoy about the man. He has taste. In clothes, in food, in drinks, and in women.
Kingsman made a whole issue out of the clothes thing for a reason while homaging Bond, and to a lesser degree, Avengers.
An English hero should have a sense of timeless understated style, to avoid being dated. He is first and foremost English and secondly timeless. That does not mean being old fashioned but it inevitably means avoiding being deliberately flamboyant or contemporary and 'of the moment'. @sark has made some very good comments as to how to determine what is appropriate for Bond.
I'm not complaining about what I've seen so far because he was in Italy at a funeral and may have been trying to fit (no pun intended) in. It seemed appropriate enough for the circumstance retrospectively, and actually very Italian (sort of an homage to the villains in the original Italian Job in a way, down to the gloves and glasses, - sans the hat). However, for scenes in London, I'd love a more English look.
Also, once everyone cools off and we get more photos to discuss, I would like to see @Villiers53 posting again.
Do you not see this as exhibiting double-standards on your part, though? You called out Villiers on confusing opinion with fact, when this is precisely what you're doing here? I personally agree with Villiers that stars such as McQueen possess an inherent élan, the way they move, the way they carry themselves and their clothes. I don't think Dan is in this strata of actors, only Connery is regard Bond actors. I would place Moore, Lazenby and Brosnan in a second strata, with Craig and Dalton below that. That's not having a pop at Dan. He's arguably the best actor of the bunch, that's his talent.
My sentiments exactly.
I always thought we were discussing and debating Bonds clothing, which I believe is the whole point of the thread.
I don't see it as having a pop at DC. Its just that - for me - part of my fascination comes from his way of moving, the swagger, the whole "moving package" and I never got the idea, other wouldn't see it. For proof I remembered the balústrade scene in QOS.
BTW - I am really surprised and pleased, how you and me can communicate on this pleasant level. For some time now.
Brilliantly put @bondjames. I too have enjoyed hearing @Villiers53's comments on a subject he clearly is an expert on and would be sad to see that stop.
I feel uneasy when I come to this thread. I don't blame either one side of the argument exclusively - both seem not interested enough in compromise to make this thread nice again. Maybe it's gone too far and now it's about standing your ground. I dunno.
As it is I think I'll lay off trying to post any opinions here. Not that anyone will mind. I'm new, I'm not a knowledgeable person when it comes to style (and fashion - but then I'm told fashion doesn't matter), and while I had a few nice and enlightening exchanges with some of you, I've not exactly contributed much. Maybe this thread just isn't for me. Maybe I shouldn't talk about what I know nothing about.
But there is this one thing I would like to explain to Villiers and his uncritical supporters, just maybe to make you think.
I'm a person who doesn't know much about Savile Row. I judge clothes on whether I like them on the person that is wearing them, on whether I like the color etc. When I first got here, I thought: "Cool, I can learn something, maybe contribute an opinion and find people agreeing or gently disagreeing."
Instead I was unsettled by unkind and/or sarcastic wording (whatever the knowledge behind them) and not-so-subtle barbs directed towards people who didn't meet your standards. I felt people were condescending and disrespectful. They seemed not to care to phrase things respectfully, since this was, obviously, their playground, and they dictated the rules of what was ok (like homophobia) and what was not (like fangirling over DC). It's as if some people feel that they (or their friends) are beyond reproach due to the superior knowledge they (and others) feel they possess. It's probably only due to a few people and remarks, but whenever I see the title of this tread now, I feel uneasy instead of excited.
I had hoped people would respect the broad masses, explain instead of judge, engage in friendly banter etc., but that didn't seem to be everyone's approach around here. And while both sides of the argument are involved in the volatile atmosphere, I always felt that the superior attitude mentioned above was where it all started. Whatever knowledge and elan you possess, in activley ridiculing less "informed" opinions you make me as a newby feel unwelcome.
Having said that: I do hope Villiers keeps commenting. Obviously he knows a few things. Just please, try to be a bit more open about other people's views and a little less disrespectful and sarcastic when talking to them. You may be the more knowledgeable person here, but would you talk like that to or about your colleagues at work (where they can hear you, no less)?