Multiple people killed by gunman in an American church

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  • Posts: 4,813
    Not trying to derail the thread here, but if the death penalty were used more, maybe some of these cowards might think twice before acting

    I'm not saying we kill every person who breaks the law or anything, but it should be used for people like this guy
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 15,117
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    His death would bring nothing.
    It would bring a savings in the cost of his continued incarceration...

    Nope. It would be more expensive actually.
    Not trying to derail the thread here, but if the death penalty were used more, maybe some of these cowards might think twice before acting

    I'm not saying we kill every person who breaks the law or anything, but it should be used for people like this guy

    Not trying to derail the thread either, but the death penalty is not a deterrent. In this particular case, this man went on a killing spree, you think previous executions made him think twice? You think a white supremacist would think twice about murdering blacks because he might get the chair, or lethal injections or whatever? If it was the case, then the USA would already be a peaceful haven.

    Maybe instead of executing him, or the next one like him, or the next one, if proper gun control laws were voted and implemented properly, such despicable crime could be avoided, or at least the number of massacres reduced. You want a madman to not kill? Don't try to scare him off, keep the guns away from him.
  • Posts: 1,548
    Is it just me or does this nutjob look a bit like as young Elvis from QOS?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Not trying to derail the thread here, but if the death penalty were used more, maybe some of these cowards might think twice before acting
    I don't think so; nuts do what they must, regardless of the consequences. He even told his friend he intended to kill himself. They just want to go out in a blaze of glory.
    It would be an act of mercy to free this soul from its tormented physical anchor.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    He looks like the kid from the omen all grown up
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I only see the bob cut as a similarity.

    To me, he looks a bit like the killer twerp that Michael Pitt played in Murder by Numbers.
    2002_Murder_by_Numbers_322.jpg
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    His death would bring nothing.
    What would allowing him to stay alive bring? If you kill an innocent person or persons, you deserve to die the same death. He did this out of hatred and evil. Putting him to death won't bring any of the victims back no, but it will forever instate that, If you break the law, you will be punished.
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 15,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    His death would bring nothing.
    What would allowing him to stay alive bring? If you kill an innocent person or persons, you deserve to die the same death. He did this out of hatred and evil. Putting him to death won't bring any of the victims back no, but it will forever instate that, If you break the law, you will be punished.

    What would it bring? Not sinking to their level for one. Other than this very little, but it is still something. There is no perfect punishment. It does not forever instate anything to execute someone. Death penalty is not an incentive, or else the USA would be a haven of peace. In any case, executing someone for a crime is like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted. By all means, lock him in and throw away the key. He deserves to be punished, however imperfect this punishment will be.

    But I will add again that proper gun control laws enforced in the US would help far more to actually avoid such heinous crime to be repeated than executing a thousand white supremacists.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Ludovico wrote: »
    proper gun control laws enforced in the US would help far more to actually avoid such heinous crime to be repeated than executing a thousand white supremacists.
    I agree, but in a country as diverse as this is, it's nearly impossible IMO. There is so much paranoia & fear ruling much of my fellow American's minds that there's clearly little room left for pure reason.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I don't think the US will ever give up its 2nd amendment rights. So even if there were gun control laws someone will find a way to get a gun into the hands of someone who wants to use it for nefarious purposes.
  • Posts: 686
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    I thought Obama summed it up when he said that as one of the most advanced, developed nations in the world, that sooner or later America needs to face up and man up to the problems of the gun culture there.

    Not saying that everywhere else has got it right, but America really does feature regularly on the news for these awful acts of violence and terror. Buy a car for someone's son or daughter, not a gun!

    Obama is a dumbshit. More people are killed by bicycles than are killed by guns. Cities which have Gun Control like Chicago, DC, and Baltimore have a high murder rates, and he does not even say anything about that.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited June 2015 Posts: 17,795
    Perdogg wrote: »
    More people are killed by bicycles than are killed by guns.
    LOL, care to post stats on that? No one EVER tried to kill me with a bicycle....

  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    edited June 2015 Posts: 1,138
    Perdogg wrote: »
    RogueAgent wrote: »
    I thought Obama summed it up when he said that as one of the most advanced, developed nations in the world, that sooner or later America needs to face up and man up to the problems of the gun culture there.

    Not saying that everywhere else has got it right, but America really does feature regularly on the news for these awful acts of violence and terror. Buy a car for someone's son or daughter, not a gun!

    Obama is a dumbshit. More people are killed by bicycles than are killed by guns. Cities which have Gun Control like Chicago, DC, and Baltimore have a high murder rates, and he does not even say anything about that.

    Hey, the mods get really touchy about adult language around here.

    Why do you talk about the cities that have implemented strict gun control laws and not the countries? It seems like an odd comparison. What works/doesn't work in a municipality has little bearing on what can work nationwide. For one thing transporting guns into New York or Chicago is very very easy. Just drive in. Transporting guns into another country becomes much more difficult. We should be asking ourselves "do strict gun control laws work in other similar countries (Western Europe, Canada, Australia etc)?"

    @chrisisall I presume he's talking about accidental bicycle accidents. Which is a strange comparison, because bicycles have a lot of utility outside use as a murder weapon. Guns utility is much more limited. Not exactly 1001 uses.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    That's true @Sark, but I believe it's inherent in US culture.

    I don't think other countries have 'the right to bear arms' enshrined in their constitution. So no matter what gun control laws are in effect, if the constitution guarantees your right, someone will interpret it to mean that one should have that right no matter what. Keep in mind also that in the US a lot of laws are implemented on a state basis, and some states are more keen on guns than others.

    The culture is the issue. South Carolina is a perfect example because of the Confederacy and slavery etc.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    edited June 2015 Posts: 1,138
    I didn't say that Australian style gun control was politically or practically possible in the near time.
    This is a somewhat personal issue for me as I'm from Charleston, and at one time lived about 1 mile from the church in question. I've walked past that front door seen in the security footage 100 times.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Wow! Then this is definitely personal for you.

    How do people feel about gun control generally in South Carolina....are they for it?

    Do you think it can make a difference in that state?

    Definitely the access to guns is something that's most prevalent in the US. Guns are not so commonplace in other countries that I've lived in. Having said that, most other countries are not so based on the 'individual' as the US is, but rather based on the 'collective'. So again, I think it's a culture thing more than an access to guns thing, although definitely if there was less access and more restrictions on guns then it's likely there will be less violent incidents like this, but I wonder how much less..
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Sark wrote: »
    This is a somewhat personal issue for me as I'm from Charleston, and at one time lived about 1 mile from the church in question. I've walked past that front door seen in the security footage 100 times.
    As 9-11 was for me as I lived 30 minutes away from it & my brother in law was there that day. Terrorism sucks, be it from abroad or domestic. But we're seeing so much more domestic these days.... who needs ISIS when we have so many dedicated nuts with guns right here at home?
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    I would be utterly shocked if SC passed anything making gun control laws stricter. The Republican party controls every level of state government. The mayor of Charleston (since 1976) is a Democrat, but never particularly liberal. Personally I think state or local gun control laws are basically useless. The most effective thing would be limiting supply. If guns started at $1000 and not $200 a lot fewer nuts would get their hands on them. But that would hit a lot of people in the wallet so it's not realistic.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Sark wrote: »
    The most effective thing would be limiting supply. If guns started at $1000 and not $200 a lot fewer nuts would get their hands on them. But that would hit a lot of people in the wallet so it's not realistic.
    If owning a gun was as expensive as owning a car, yeah, it would cut down on the "nut" factor I guess...
  • Posts: 686
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Perdogg wrote: »
    More people are killed by bicycles than are killed by guns.
    LOL, care to post stats on that? No one EVER tried to kill me with a bicycle....

    Do the research yourself.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Perdogg wrote: »
    Do the research yourself.

    12,000 gun deaths vs. 700 + bicycle fatalities?
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 686
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Perdogg wrote: »
    Do the research yourself.

    12,000 gun deaths vs. 700 + bicycle fatalities?

    well let's ban them!!!

    33,000 were killed by autos, do you want to ban cars?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited June 2015 Posts: 17,795
    Perdogg wrote: »
    33,000 were killed by autos, do you want to ban cars?
    I also happen to believe it's WAAAAAY too easy to obtain a license to drive a two ton bullet, yes. But once again, it comes down to commerce. Good regulation would cut into profits.
  • Posts: 686
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Perdogg wrote: »
    33,000 were killed by autos, do you want to ban cars?
    I also happen to believe it's WAAAAAY too easy to obtain a license to drive a two ton bullet, yes. But once again, it comes down to commerce. Good regulation would cut into profits.

    Typical statist.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Perdogg wrote: »
    Typical statist.
    Then you are a typical Darwinist.
    :))
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    well let's ban them!!!

    33,000 were killed by autos, do you want to ban cars?

    Cars have massive utility beyond death, a modern economy cannot operate without them. Modern economies can and do operate without guns in large supply.
  • Posts: 686
    Sark wrote: »
    well let's ban them!!!

    33,000 were killed by autos, do you want to ban cars?

    Cars have massive utility beyond death, a modern economy cannot operate without them. Modern economies can and do operate without guns in large supply.

    There is something called the US Constitution and 2nd Amendment.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    edited June 2015 Posts: 1,138
    Please, tell me more about this 'constitution'. I've never heard of it. Are you implying that a modern economy and society cannot operate without it?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,795
    Perdogg wrote: »
    There is something called the US Constitution and 2nd Amendment.
    So, by extension, in the coming eras the 2nd Amendment will also apply to blasters & phasers-?
  • Posts: 686
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Perdogg wrote: »
    There is something called the US Constitution and 2nd Amendment.
    So, by extension, in the coming eras the 2nd Amendment will also apply to blasters & phasers-?

    So, by your question does the first amendment apply to computers?
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