SPECTRE - Press reviews and personal reviews (BEWARE! Spoiler reviews allowed)

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  • I watched "Premium Bond" the other night BBC Four, Mark Gatiss made an interesting point that he believed problems with scripting started way back with L&LD, when the producers started following trends instead of setting them, I thought he had a point, but then again there are still some great Bond's after that time.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Yes, the World of Bond had little to do with Shaft etc but they followed that trend and lead him in that direction. Its a good point IMHO (Premium Bond was very good IMHO, Bond for grownups) and shows he knows his stuff. Gatiss has done other docs on other genres and is thoughtful and perceptive:
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I've tried to think of this as a stand alone movie, ie: no previous knowledge of Bond (Not easy as I've been watching the series for over 45 years). How would it have been reviewed if it was a stand alone movie, I think it would have gotten around 59% on rotten tomatoes instead of the current 76%. I think that far too many are cutting this film too much slack, it's got a couple of great bits, a few more good bits but a hell of a lot of medioctrity, end of term report, could do better.

    This has been the year of the spy film & so far IMHO there have been 2 films much better than SP, kingsman for one & MI Rougue Nation for two.

    Rubbish.

    Why don't you say what you really think, those who can't expand & resort to one word responses IMO have already lost the argument....

    Really? Not in this case I assure you. I thought your perspective on this matter was and is rubbish. Nothing more and nothing less.

    That's personal, I could attack your opinion by saying it's rubbish but I wouldn't, because it's below me, I would just say that you have that opinion, I disagree but you have the right to hold by it. Opinions can never be rubbish because everyone's view can be different & as such there are many angles, that's democracy & free speech old boy.

    Opinions can certainly be rubbish and in this case I and the good Doctor @doubleoego agree that yours fits the bill. Again, feel free to explain where the number 59 comes from.

    Add me to your swelling ranks old chap because I'm sorry SpectreNumberTwo but the assertion that Kingsman was a better film than SP is farcical.

    I'd bigged Vaughan up as a potential Bond director on the strength of the superb Kick Ass but repeating the same trick he did with that film but for the spy genre was beyond him.

    Kingsman had its moments but the car chase alone in SP encapsulated everything Kingsman tried to achieve with more class and panache.

    Yes I would admit to being a tad disappointed with SP but don't for one moment think anybody out there does it better than Bond. SP delivers all the spy genre clichés people expect and films like MI and Kingsman try to ape but it does them better and with more style. Non of the three films mentioned had stunning plots. The difference is when the story stutters SP is still a James Bond film at the end of the day and that counts for a hell of a lot when your name is merely Ethan Hunt or some chav scrote whose name eludes me.

    To me this illustrates the great problem with fan sites, I've probably been watching Bond longer than all of you, my first taste was a double bill in 1968 of FRWL & GF & I was hocked from then on, I've seen every single film on it's release since OHMSS (Still one of the best for a lot of fans), I read most of the flemming material during my time at school, because I love Bond it means I don't just accept every installment as the best thing since frozen pizza, I look at each one including novels with a critical eye, always insisting that they meet a high standard & if they don't I'm not robotic enough to accept sub-standard without comment, I believe that both MI & Kingsman were better paced & plotted which is an OPINION nothing more.
    After all the comments I've read this evening, I wonder if all you guys would think Bond was wonderful if it was a camp carry on movie, if you never question or criticise then you may as well be a robotic zombie. So to paraphrase Gerrad Butler in Olympus has fallen lets play a game of F**k Off, you go first.

    I'll take you seriously when you spell Fleming correctly.

    BEST COMEBACK LINE EVER POSTED ON THE BOARD =)) X_X =D>
  • RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I've tried to think of this as a stand alone movie, ie: no previous knowledge of Bond (Not easy as I've been watching the series for over 45 years). How would it have been reviewed if it was a stand alone movie, I think it would have gotten around 59% on rotten tomatoes instead of the current 76%. I think that far too many are cutting this film too much slack, it's got a couple of great bits, a few more good bits but a hell of a lot of medioctrity, end of term report, could do better.

    This has been the year of the spy film & so far IMHO there have been 2 films much better than SP, kingsman for one & MI Rougue Nation for two.

    Rubbish.

    Why don't you say what you really think, those who can't expand & resort to one word responses IMO have already lost the argument....

    Really? Not in this case I assure you. I thought your perspective on this matter was and is rubbish. Nothing more and nothing less.

    That's personal, I could attack your opinion by saying it's rubbish but I wouldn't, because it's below me, I would just say that you have that opinion, I disagree but you have the right to hold by it. Opinions can never be rubbish because everyone's view can be different & as such there are many angles, that's democracy & free speech old boy.

    Opinions can certainly be rubbish and in this case I and the good Doctor @doubleoego agree that yours fits the bill. Again, feel free to explain where the number 59 comes from.

    Add me to your swelling ranks old chap because I'm sorry SpectreNumberTwo but the assertion that Kingsman was a better film than SP is farcical.

    I'd bigged Vaughan up as a potential Bond director on the strength of the superb Kick Ass but repeating the same trick he did with that film but for the spy genre was beyond him.

    Kingsman had its moments but the car chase alone in SP encapsulated everything Kingsman tried to achieve with more class and panache.

    Yes I would admit to being a tad disappointed with SP but don't for one moment think anybody out there does it better than Bond. SP delivers all the spy genre clichés people expect and films like MI and Kingsman try to ape but it does them better and with more style. Non of the three films mentioned had stunning plots. The difference is when the story stutters SP is still a James Bond film at the end of the day and that counts for a hell of a lot when your name is merely Ethan Hunt or some chav scrote whose name eludes me.

    To me this illustrates the great problem with fan sites, I've probably been watching Bond longer than all of you, my first taste was a double bill in 1968 of FRWL & GF & I was hocked from then on, I've seen every single film on it's release since OHMSS (Still one of the best for a lot of fans), I read most of the flemming material during my time at school, because I love Bond it means I don't just accept every installment as the best thing since frozen pizza, I look at each one including novels with a critical eye, always insisting that they meet a high standard & if they don't I'm not robotic enough to accept sub-standard without comment, I believe that both MI & Kingsman were better paced & plotted which is an OPINION nothing more.
    After all the comments I've read this evening, I wonder if all you guys would think Bond was wonderful if it was a camp carry on movie, if you never question or criticise then you may as well be a robotic zombie. So to paraphrase Gerrad Butler in Olympus has fallen lets play a game of F**k Off, you go first.

    I'll take you seriously when you spell Fleming correctly.

    BEST COMEBACK LINE EVER POSTED ON THE BOARD =)) X_X =D>

    You must not get out much, I suppose you've never hit a button twice by mistake, better watch yourself I have people everywhere. :D
  • Posts: 15,123
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Madeleine Swann does not have to die. She could be dumped in Bond 25 the way Bond and Tiffany Case broke up in the novels.

    Wait so Madeleine is a defenite return? In which case I hope they reveal she's a fembot in the very first minute of the new film and get rid of her. I loved her character and Seydoux played her well but I'm sick of Bond carrying heaps of weight from previous movies. It was one of the things I disliked in SPECTRE (all the references in the credits, White's lair, the SAW rooms, etc.). Obviously it'll be great if they elaborate on SPECTRE, but the evenly distributed action and lightness in tone are what made this movie brilliant to me.

    We don't know if she will return or not. Their breakup, might there be one, can be off screen. I think one of the strengths of the Craig era is an actual sense of continuity between movies. It changes from the villain of the week formula that makes every movie episodic.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 4,617
    Considering she declared her love for him and the cheesy set up with the DB5 "into the sunset" I think its very very hard, if not impossible for any writer to not have reference to her in the next screenplay. It's not a "clean sheet" scenario
    Sorry, just to contradict myself , somehow, it would be more possible to ignore her if it was a new actor playing Bond so it was as if DC's Bond had a happy ending and here is a new Bond.
  • Posts: 15,123
    patb wrote: »
    Considering she declared her love for him and the cheesy set up with the DB5 "into the sunset" I think its very very hard, if not impossible for any writer to not have reference to her in the next screenplay. It's not a "clean sheet" scenario
    Sorry, just to contradict myself , somehow, it would be more possible to ignore her if it was a new actor playing Bond so it was as if DC's Bond had a happy ending and here is a new Bond.

    I really enjoyed the ending. And I am all for showing what happens after the credit rolls, between Bond and the Bond girl.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I'm more than happy for Swann to be ignored and have the story move on. If they need to reference her, then they can come up with any number of scenarios for why she's no longer around and then just let the movie get on with proceedings; I'm not bothered.
  • Posts: 1,068
    Second viewing and I'm more than impressed and comfortable now I've passed the anxiety of will it be a poor film or not that I took into the first viewing.

    I've taken more note if the additional nuances which have helped give me a better take on it and some of my doubts and criticisms I've read here aren't such a big deal now.

    The empty streets aren't as empty as they seem, nor the train or new intelligence building - there are bodies present but in the periphery to stay out of the focus of the key players.

    I'm even passed the tortute scene believability / I naturally just assumed it was needle drills into the brain as I flinched and gritted my teeth with that dentists drill sound. The entry points are jaw line and finer than I recall in the first outing. I imagine Bond was just desperate to get out of there to find somewhere with some codeine paracetamol?

    Madeleine got Hinx in the arm with her first shot! Missed that first time out.

    Mi6 building had plenty of real life Londoners on the bridge as it erupted - will have to check the embankment with the square ways on shot as the pulse detonations stress across it too.

    So. Out of all the talk about the poor plot / writing in some posts, my only observation that I cannot counter with an explanation are the grotto boats that someone has neglected to remove in the decommission of the Mi6 building? Maybe there's nowhere else to keep them in the Thames before the planned demolition in 3 weeks time?

    And what kind of knot did Bond tie on Hinx - looked like two full circumferences of the neck but no knot that I saw!?

    I'm going with family to see it again next week so will keep a lot out!

    Still love it and it gets my 5 stars even if some only struggle to offer 3
  • Posts: 1,068
    Oh, and I forgot to mention I totally agree with @RC7's points above!
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 1,098
    As others have stated..............you really need to see a film twice to really absorb what was going on, as you miss snippets of dialogue, and action on initial viewing, that would make the film more sense to you.
    Plus, if your a fan of a particular franchise, then you go into the cinema, sort of stressed, without actually knowing it...........because you so desperately want to enjoy the film.
    I for one want to go and see SP again, as i obviously missed some things, such as where did Bond get that bleedin plane from, in the Austrian chase scene?
  • Posts: 1,068
    The runway with shit loads of planes is shown in the film - you need to look - I missed it on first outing. Sure, it would've helped seeing Bond abseiling down a chairlift wire with his belt etc as it'd crank the tension and make you believe Bond was on it with a plan.
  • Posts: 15,123
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I'm more than happy for Swann to be ignored and have the story move on. If they need to reference her, then they can come up with any number of scenarios for why she's no longer around and then just let the movie get on with proceedings; I'm not bothered.

    She can still be referred to, if not appear in the movie briefly. Continuity has been working well since the beginning of the Craig era. Beside, it is inevitable that there will be more, with Blofeld alive and well.
  • Posts: 15,123
    My wife studied at Royal Holloway and she found the article by a Royal Holloway professor. And my thought when I read it: what a load of hogwash!

    https://www.royalholloway.ac.uk/aboutus/newsandevents/news/newsarticles/positivelyshockingjamesbondwomenandspectre.aspx

    Question: anybody else thinks Jinx is better than Madeleine Swann? If I had a girl, I know who I'd want for a positive role model.
  • Posts: 3,336
    Finally saw it, and i enjoyed it

    Liked it much better then my first viewing of Skyfall, which i though was just "ok".

    7,5-8/10


  • Posts: 1,068
    Wouldn't it have been really good to get a glimpse of. 009!? Maybe in silhouette of Mr Cumberbach or Elba? ;)
  • Posts: 3,336
    Was the priesthood quote removed? I didn't notice it
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    It was there
  • I'd have liked the train conversation to have been a bit more extended & sparky as the one with Vesper in CR was, however the entrance of Hinx was impessive with his destruction of the table, the fight was one of the best & bone crunchingly choreographed in recent memory.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Best fight since the stairwell fight in CR.
  • Maybe Gatiss could take over writing duties? He can't do Sherlock forever.

    I do think there should be big guy or strong figure in charge of Bond, not sure the current producers really have it though you can't argue with success. Someone to sit down and do a Hitchcock i.e. take the writer through the film, nit pick the plot holes so it hangs together. Instead the films just sort of evolves and falls into place, with the marketing and product placement and song being the main tropes, along with some kind of theme to underpin it. But not actually a strong and logical narrative grounded in reality.
  • Posts: 486
    Maybe Gatiss could take over writing duties? He can't do Sherlock forever.

    If it keeps him away from being the next show runner for Dr Who it might just be worth it!
    I do think there should be big guy or strong figure in charge of Bond, not sure the current producers really have it though you can't argue with success. Someone to sit down and do a Hitchcock i.e. take the writer through the film, nit pick the plot holes so it hangs together. Instead the films just sort of evolves and falls into place, with the marketing and product placement and song being the main tropes, along with some kind of theme to underpin it. But not actually a strong and logical narrative grounded in reality.

    I loved SPECTRE but yes it's not good for the future of the franchise to have another troubled script, following QOS and was it TND too?

    It really makes you realise what an unsung hero Maibaum was. The films have just never felt the same since the 1989 hiatus.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Funny how I consider TND the best of the Brosnan era and also really like QOS. May be 'script problems' are not such a bad thing when IT comes to Bond. Have a feeling FRWL and LTK also suffered similar issues.
  • JWPepperJWPepper You sit on it, but you can't take it with you.
    Posts: 512
    Where was the Michael G. Wilson cameo?
  • Posts: 3,276
    JWPepper wrote: »
    Where was the Michael G. Wilson cameo?
    Whitehall. Shaking hands with 'C'
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 3,333
    Getafix wrote: »
    Funny how I consider TND the best of the Brosnan era and also really like QOS. May be 'script problems' are not such a bad thing when IT comes to Bond. Have a feeling FRWL and LTK also suffered similar issues.

    I recall reading that FRWL was a straight forward affair. Firstly, Johanna Harwood was asked to produce the first screenplay. She insisted on keeping everything from the book and it was a straight adaption. When Richard Maibaum came onboard he added the PTS sequence and SPECTRE along with a few other flourishes. I have no idea what the uncredited Berkely Mather added to the screenplay though? Maybe the chess sequence? I read that Harwood started on the adaption immediately after Dr No was complete. No time was wasted.
  • bondsum wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Funny how I consider TND the best of the Brosnan era and also really like QOS. May be 'script problems' are not such a bad thing when IT comes to Bond. Have a feeling FRWL and LTK also suffered similar issues.

    I recall reading that FRWL was a straight forward affair. Firstly, Johanna Harwood was asked to produce the first screenplay. She insisted on keeping everything from the book and it was a straight adaption. When Richard Maibaum came onboard he added the PTS sequence and SPECTRE along with a few other flourishes. I have no idea what the uncredited Berkely Mather added to the screenplay though? Maybe the chess sequence? I read that Harwood started on the adaption immediately after Dr No was complete. No time was wasted.

    *Sigh* I wish they were still that efficient. Maybe Kathleen Kennedy over at Disney needs to produce these movies. They got the rights to Star Wars and she's already got five films lined up, one a year. Maybe she could give a few pointers to Babs...
  • JNOJNO Finland
    Posts: 137
    Well, now I´ve seen it.

    And yes, I liked it very, very much. I´m not going to write much more because I need to see it again, maybe two times at least. After that I can say where it lands in my charts.

    The PTS was absolutely fantastic, among the best in the series. The Rome-sequence (Spectre meeting) gave me chills. Cuckoo! The action was fantastic, especially the PTS and that train fight. I just need to see it again...

    And yes. Ernst Stavro Blofeld is back. Many people have been saying that Waltz was a bit lame or boring, maybe not so inspirational as usual. I don´t think so. His Blofeld gave me shivers down my spine. Can´t wait to see him again... and we will see him again, that´s for sure.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Many people didn't like Waltz as Blofeld? I sure haven't heard many negative comments about him. If any at all, actually.

    And I might be mean, but I cannot wait to see the face of those who advocated Scott as Blofeld. Actually I won't see their face, but figuratively speaking. What did I say? Jekyll & Hyde/Dracula twist.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I was expecting more from Waltz, so I was a little disappointed.
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