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SPECTRE "car chase" - SPOILERS!!!!
OK, this seems to be a hot topic and, for me, is a focus point on why the tone of the movie does not work. Mods feel free to delete if felt to specific and already covered.
Many have pointed out that that the Bond series evolves and reflects the values and norms within the time frame it was made and this is a perfect example. He is driving a mega expensive prototype in Rome, chased by a guy who has just popped someones eyes out. Rather than focus all his skills and time on that task, he decides to phone a colleague (much like so many drivers on the roads these days), the topic of the call is not urgent in comparison the the car chase. (he could have put a call in to Q to find out what the buttons did?). Moneypenny takes the call and, whilst trying to deal with it, realises she is peckish and searches the fridge for a snack (working from home, flexibe hours, multi-tasking). Being a traditionalist, the car chase for me is an opportunity for exciting stunts, tension and for our characters to be stretched in their abilities (the French Connection school of car chases) so its a done deal that I would would at least raise an eyebrow to the phone call. But I fully realise that others would think that this fits in with the "Roger Moore" light tough, hence the opportunity to discuss.
Many have pointed out that that the Bond series evolves and reflects the values and norms within the time frame it was made and this is a perfect example. He is driving a mega expensive prototype in Rome, chased by a guy who has just popped someones eyes out. Rather than focus all his skills and time on that task, he decides to phone a colleague (much like so many drivers on the roads these days), the topic of the call is not urgent in comparison the the car chase. (he could have put a call in to Q to find out what the buttons did?). Moneypenny takes the call and, whilst trying to deal with it, realises she is peckish and searches the fridge for a snack (working from home, flexibe hours, multi-tasking). Being a traditionalist, the car chase for me is an opportunity for exciting stunts, tension and for our characters to be stretched in their abilities (the French Connection school of car chases) so its a done deal that I would would at least raise an eyebrow to the phone call. But I fully realise that others would think that this fits in with the "Roger Moore" light tough, hence the opportunity to discuss.
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Comments
But in the cold light of day and reading your comments it is quite difficult to defend the phone call.
I did remember thinking during the scene that it seemed more like they were just following each other round the city and I was watching a Top Gear segment rather than a high octane dramatic Bond chase.
I did like the bit where Bond smashes through the roof of a parked car and it did get better when they moved onto the river but overall I was expecting something much more like the QOS chase only on a bigger scale and with decent editing.
I actually think it fitted in perfectly with the Rome scenes - for me it shouldn't have been more action pumped - it was plenty. I loved the intercuts with MP. The music goes great for the chase.
But then we have Mexico and Austria which are really pumped with action.
Yes.............the car scene in Rome was fine, BUT it probably wasn't what most people were expecting.......thats all!
Without wishing to commit heresy here, I think that the car chase as a dramatic spectacle has become overused and done to the point where nothing really thrills or spills like it used to any more because almost every action/adventure movie since 1968's Bullitt has been there, done that and got the T shirt as far as car chases are concerned. At least in SP, they chose to gently send the car chase up without descending into burlesque (like they did with TMWTGG's slide whistle and MR's winking pigeon). For me, this made a refreshing change. We have Bond weaving his way through the expected motions of the chase while calmly carrying on a phone conversation with Moneypenny in a gesture that clearly says: "Ho-hum, just another day at the office".
And I have to say that whenever the inevitable car chase commences, this is exactly what I find myself thinking. I daresay the scriptwriters wept when they realised that there were no more car chase worlds left to conquer (without it becoming completely ridiculous), so they decided to satirise it rather than expect the audience to take it too seriously.
I think people's somewhat disappointment arises form the fact that so much was made of the Aston Martin DB10 by the media, in the months leading upto the films release.
I also remember quite a lot was made of the BMW in Goldeneye............but in the film itself, it was barely used!
Look upon it this way...he's just discovered his deceased foster brother is alive and well and running a terrorist organisation. Only natural he wants answers fast!
I also agree that most people probably got hyped up because the scene was really played up during the making of the film, especially since before they started filming when they introduced the DB10.
Red Bull Bond car chase.
All well and good but it undermines any threat that Hinx is meant to bring to the movie and when you start using such gestures (I don't think they did, I think is just badly done ), where do you draw the line? "Ho-hum, just another torture scene"
"Ho-hum, just another count down" etc etc. If Bond is blaze about the situation he finds himself in, then why should the audience not feel the same?
Excitement is a cornerstone of Bond and if you can't get excited about an Aston and Jag chasing around the streets of Rome, then when is the audience meant to get excited. I agree the car chase is a bit of a cliche so either do it in an unusual way (the tank in GE for example) or just don't have one. But trying to subvert cliches by being ironic is not the way to go as it undermines everything that Bond movies stand for.
the car chase, but in the second half. It gets a little more serious, no laughs on the
Train, or in the villains lair, or in the final showdown. Or at least a lot less humour.
I'm dying to have a further Bond car chase where he has a Bond Girl by his side to make quips to like GF, DAF, TSWLM. Probably haven't had this since TLD so him chatting to Moneypenny was a nice contrast to the QOS chase.
I didn't mean irony, as there isn't any in this sequence. I said satire, which is entirely different. At least it's not burlesque, like in MR and TSWLM.
Surely though, if Bond movies are about excitement, we can find other ways to achieve this without having to come up with different non-car vehicles to have the inevitable chase in. Take CR, for instance. This movie generates plenty of excitement (by means of sheer character conflict, tension and suspense) -- enough excitement, in fact, to make the top of many people's "Best of Bond" lists -- and yet it does not feature a car chase, except for a brief pursuit lasting scant seconds that is entirely essential to the plot and not merely thrown in gratuitously because it is expected.
What I am saying is that a car chase is not really exciting when it isn't really needed by the plot and the audience are aware that it is included just because it has become a staple ingredient.
Please don't think I am having a go at you personally Darius as I always respect and enjoy your posts. But this could be an example of fans wanting to enjoy the movie so much , they want it both ways. If the car chase had been fantastic and up in the same league as Ronin, Bulitt etc, SP fans rightly would have praised it. But rather than accept the fact that its just not in that league, it becomes "satirical" and , therefore was not even trying to be an exciting sequence within the movie. So it wins either way and is exempt from critique
PS (sorry) if the chase was between 2 fiat 500s or a couple of wrecks then I can see that, but when they are two serious supercars (that have been marketed to death) , they deserve a serious chase scene.
Likewise.
Yes, indeed, two wonderful supercars do need hyping, but it at least makes a change to see such hyping treated in a slightly different way.
At least in not going OTT for a car chase to rival or surpass Bullitt or Ronin, the naysayers can't accuse Bond of becoming a parody of itself.
Indeed. It felt more like watching the Stig trying to set a time round a Rome street circuit.
Even in Roger's comedy car chases with racist stereotyped Louisiana Sherrifs and French taxi drivers there were still some amazing stunts in there.
I know Remy Julienne must be on his last legs (is he even still alive?) but is L'Equipe Julienne still going in some way? They always came up with something original.
Bond would need to have some serious aftercare with Graham
:))
The best moments in this film weren't the dull set pieces at all, but rather, off the top of my head;
The PTS tracking shot - wonderful!
Bond snooping on Sciarra meeting and then shooting them.
Bond/Bellucci at her villa.
Bond/White scene - fantastic!
L'Americain scene.
The torture scene
Waltz showing Madelaine cctv footage of Bond and White's showdown.
Fight with Hinx on the train, which was the first time I actually thought Bond was going to lose - very well done and perhaps could have been longer.
The helicopter fight was bizarrely empty and fake looking, the car chase pointless, The plane/car chase bland, the morocco base escape easy - no sense of danger there - Bond just pinged them off like he was playing COD. The London finale was crap. There's alot to like about the film in parts but whatever tension and mystery Mendes built, however good Craig and Seydoux were, it was largely undone by a boring set piece that looked cheap anyway, or Mendes playing for laughs. If those moments were shorter or cut we could have had more interesting things like the ones mentioned, or more hand to hand combat scenes which are always a joy.
the car chase came directly after the SPECRE meeting scene which for me, was one of the best with genuine tension and fear (you can see it in Bonds face) so escaping that fear via the car chase could have carried on that tension etc instead of going for a lighter touch. This is an example of the variable tone that some , including myself, have struggled with
From Lucia arriving home to Bond making his escape and doing a running and jumping diving roll to get to his db10 was just spectacular stuff.
I actually really like the db10/jaguar chase and it's really more enjoyable after the 3rd viewing but still, like all things that can be improved, it would have been better for me had the chase had the same intensity as the PTS to QoS.
I might have preferred a clever little cat and mouse chase instead, but alas.
I also think it would have been so much better if we didn't know White was The Pale King before we got to the snowy cabin. I know we had already seen it in the trailer but it would still have built some anticipation for the following sequence.
Going back to the chase though - all in all, pretty pointless. I am not a fan of phonecalls during action sequences in general. An email with The Pale King's location would have been fine.
Well you got the mouse later on at least. What are you moaning about?
I do agree with most of your points in your earlier posts above regarding most of the action scenes. By far the best was the Hinx fight in which Craig's Bond for once looks in serious trouble. For me it spoiled it somewhat that it was Madeline that saved the day. I would have preferred it if Bond had some how dug himself out of it with his wits.
Better fight than FRWL? Not quite. Second best of the series? I'd need to see it a few more times yet. It might be but at the moment I still feel the bloody brutality of the CR stairwell fight just shades it into third. Despite taking a pasting Bond is not bleeding and quite fit to get stuck into Madeline 2 minutes afterwards. Probably better than the CR PTS, GE Alec v Bond and TLD Necros v Green 4 which are the other standout fights of the series for me.