Christoph Waltz as Blofeld - Hit or miss?

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Nothing wrong with the character or the acting.

    He just should have had more screen time to be properly developed, and as has been said, drop the childhood angle......it's rather irrelevant given the way it was mentioned and the way it played out, as if no one really gives a toss.

    They could have let the whole thing revolve around Madeleine's childhood (Blofeld's impact on her via her father's fear) rather than both Bond and Madeleine. That would have helped to forge more of a connection with her character by Bond as well, although it would retread the Camille story a bit.

    Blofeld could just be a mastermind who came after Bond because he interfered in his affairs, starting all the way back with LeChiffre and the bombmaker in CR.
  • EsotericEsoteric Poland
    Posts: 28
    As long as Waltz performed with cause and gave 70-80% of his skill, his big reveal and facial wound compensated all shortcomings.
  • edited November 2015 Posts: 2,483
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Waltz is not underused: Blofeld needs to stay in the shadows mostly, a presence that is difficult to perceive. He is, after all, a ghost. There was a risk of overusing him actually.

    Looking back at the previous three movies, it makes perfect sense than the shadowy organization that we had seen in CR and QOS (albeit with a different name) had a leader and was not merely run by a committee of villains. I suspect they wrote SP with a crypto-Blofeld in mind at first, then when they had the rights secured they decided to make him Blofeld.

    His up-front presence certainly didn't hurt OHMSS one bit. Then again, Telly's take was vastly superior.

    Blofeld was not upfront in OHMSS: he appears quite a while into the film (halfway?). He is referred to a long time before showing up. Same thing in the novel. It is early to tell which one I prefer over Savalas or Waltz, but Waltz is certainly a hit for me.

    I would wager Telly occupied a far higher percentage of OHMSS' running time than Waltz did SP's.

    Savalas benefitted from being in a seminal film. Objectively he's not really that close to Fleming's Blofeld. Waltz is.

    On the contrary, the grinning and simpering Nancy that is Waltz's Blofeld bears no resemblance whatsoever to Fleming's bulky, otherworldly, and ice cold monster. Rather, he looks like Bond's personal physician in Shrublands.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    On the contrary, the grinning Nancy that is Waltz's Blofeld bears no resemblance whatsoever to Fleming's bulky, otherworldly, and ice cold monster. Rather, he looks like Bond's personal physician in Shrublands.
    Blofeld as described in OHMSS novel.
    rYRqtZSm.jpg?1

    Blofeld as seen in SPECTRE.
    2AC31EB100000578-0-image-a-10_1437605938070.jpg
  • Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Waltz is not underused: Blofeld needs to stay in the shadows mostly, a presence that is difficult to perceive. He is, after all, a ghost. There was a risk of overusing him actually.

    Looking back at the previous three movies, it makes perfect sense than the shadowy organization that we had seen in CR and QOS (albeit with a different name) had a leader and was not merely run by a committee of villains. I suspect they wrote SP with a crypto-Blofeld in mind at first, then when they had the rights secured they decided to make him Blofeld.

    His up-front presence certainly didn't hurt OHMSS one bit. Then again, Telly's take was vastly superior.

    Blofeld was not upfront in OHMSS: he appears quite a while into the film (halfway?). He is referred to a long time before showing up. Same thing in the novel. It is early to tell which one I prefer over Savalas or Waltz, but Waltz is certainly a hit for me.

    I would wager Telly occupied a far higher percentage of OHMSS' running time than Waltz did SP's.

    That may be so but he is still unseen for the first half or so of the movie. Besides, that is beside the point: Dr No is only seen a few minutes before the end of the movie titled after him and it does serve him.
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Waltz is not underused: Blofeld needs to stay in the shadows mostly, a presence that is difficult to perceive. He is, after all, a ghost. There was a risk of overusing him actually.

    Looking back at the previous three movies, it makes perfect sense than the shadowy organization that we had seen in CR and QOS (albeit with a different name) had a leader and was not merely run by a committee of villains. I suspect they wrote SP with a crypto-Blofeld in mind at first, then when they had the rights secured they decided to make him Blofeld.

    His up-front presence certainly didn't hurt OHMSS one bit. Then again, Telly's take was vastly superior.

    Blofeld was not upfront in OHMSS: he appears quite a while into the film (halfway?). He is referred to a long time before showing up. Same thing in the novel. It is early to tell which one I prefer over Savalas or Waltz, but Waltz is certainly a hit for me.

    I would wager Telly occupied a far higher percentage of OHMSS' running time than Waltz did SP's.

    Savalas benefitted from being in a seminal film. Objectively he's not really that close to Fleming's Blofeld. Waltz is.

    Indeed. Savalas does have something of Blofeld's look in the novel TB, but his attitude is different in many aspects: he is more active, for one, he also seems to have a certain attraction towards women. Waltz's Blofeld is far more cerebral and may be asexual... Just like the novel's Blofeld. He is certainly a puritan: I need to watch the movie, but do we see him smoke or drink at all?

    But I'm afraid Dr. No's minuscule screen time does hurt him and the film. He was such a captivating presence this viewer always feels a bit deprived at the end. DN would have benefited from having Joseph Wiseman on screen considerably more. But that's not a problem with Waltz-Blofeld because he's largely a cipher who doesn't possess an ounce of the proper Blofeld malevolence to begin with, so nothing lost really. Given, however, Waltz's lack of screen time, I fail entirely to see how you can conclude that he is a cerebral, asexual puritan.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Waltz is not underused: Blofeld needs to stay in the shadows mostly, a presence that is difficult to perceive. He is, after all, a ghost. There was a risk of overusing him actually.

    Looking back at the previous three movies, it makes perfect sense than the shadowy organization that we had seen in CR and QOS (albeit with a different name) had a leader and was not merely run by a committee of villains. I suspect they wrote SP with a crypto-Blofeld in mind at first, then when they had the rights secured they decided to make him Blofeld.

    His up-front presence certainly didn't hurt OHMSS one bit. Then again, Telly's take was vastly superior.

    Blofeld was not upfront in OHMSS: he appears quite a while into the film (halfway?). He is referred to a long time before showing up. Same thing in the novel. It is early to tell which one I prefer over Savalas or Waltz, but Waltz is certainly a hit for me.

    I would wager Telly occupied a far higher percentage of OHMSS' running time than Waltz did SP's.

    Savalas benefitted from being in a seminal film. Objectively he's not really that close to Fleming's Blofeld. Waltz is.

    On the contrary, the grinning and simpering Nancy that is Waltz's Blofeld bears no resemblance whatsoever to Fleming's bulky, otherworldly, and ice cold monster. Rather, he looks like Bond's personal physician in Shrublands.

    Grinning Nancy. Brilliant.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with the character or the acting.

    He just should have had more screen time to be properly developed, and as has been said, drop the childhood angle......it's rather irrelevant given the way it was mentioned and the way it played out, as if no one really gives a toss.

    They could have let the whole thing revolve around Madeleine's childhood (Blofeld's impact on her via her father's fear) rather than both Bond and Madeleine. That would have helped to forge more of a connection with her character by Bond as well, although it would retread the Camille story a bit.

    Blofeld could just be a mastermind who came after Bond because he interfered in his affairs, starting all the way back with LeChiffre and the bombmaker in CR.

    The best Bond villains to me, always have the nicest openings, and have relatively short screentime.

    Same with certain Bond girls. I don't get the criticism about 'screen time'. Sometimes it's entirely necessary to introduce a villain fairly late, or to kill off a secondary Bond-girl early on, for the sake of keeping the story going.....and to create 'memorable/gritty moments'.

    Personally, I LOVED how Severine was killed off early, because it gave more gravita to the character of Silva. Blofeld in "SPECTRE" had actually two introductions, downtown Rome, at the Bilderberg-table, and then again in "Dr No"-esque fashion in his lair in Morocco.

    Call me a bit psychotic :-P....but I loved the way Hinx killed off that inefficient Spanish SPECTRE-member :-P. I was even thinking.....push deeper with your nails Hinx! Right into his brains 8-X
  • RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Waltz is not underused: Blofeld needs to stay in the shadows mostly, a presence that is difficult to perceive. He is, after all, a ghost. There was a risk of overusing him actually.

    Looking back at the previous three movies, it makes perfect sense than the shadowy organization that we had seen in CR and QOS (albeit with a different name) had a leader and was not merely run by a committee of villains. I suspect they wrote SP with a crypto-Blofeld in mind at first, then when they had the rights secured they decided to make him Blofeld.

    His up-front presence certainly didn't hurt OHMSS one bit. Then again, Telly's take was vastly superior.

    Blofeld was not upfront in OHMSS: he appears quite a while into the film (halfway?). He is referred to a long time before showing up. Same thing in the novel. It is early to tell which one I prefer over Savalas or Waltz, but Waltz is certainly a hit for me.

    I would wager Telly occupied a far higher percentage of OHMSS' running time than Waltz did SP's.

    Savalas benefitted from being in a seminal film. Objectively he's not really that close to Fleming's Blofeld. Waltz is.

    On the contrary, the grinning and simpering Nancy that is Waltz's Blofeld bears no resemblance whatsoever to Fleming's bulky, otherworldly, and ice cold monster. Rather, he looks like Bond's personal physician in Shrublands.

    A physician who drills dentist equipment in one's skull. A physician who coldly watches how the previous head of SPECTRE is being violently blinded (How would that feel actually...emptying eyeballs from its fluids?). A physician who takes pleasure in showing a video of Mr White's suicide to Madeleine Swann. A physician who takes pride in discovering when the soul actually leaves the body before death (Blofeld: "It was done after his eyes were popped out. He was physically perhaps still alive, but you felt that his soul already left.")

    You can call him a nancy now, but let me drill some holes in your skull instead >:)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    The amount of screen time for Waltz was absolutely right.

    He appeared early in the movie which was really good.
    His scene in the darkly lit meteor room was so brilliant. One of many instant classic scenes.

    Silva was introduced after 75 minutes!! and then he said this:

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://youtube.com/embed/inPk9M0v320" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    could be out of an Austin Powers movie.
  • Posts: 2,491
    The amount of screen time for Waltz was absolutely right.

    He appeared early in the movie which was really good.
    His scene in the darkly lit meteor room was so brilliant. One of many instant classic scenes.

    Silva was introduced after 75 minutes!! and then he said this:

    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://youtube.com/embed/inPk9M0v320" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

    could be out of an Austin Powers movie.


    :)) This is totally taken out of context as I like the line but I appreciate the humour in your post :D
    Murdock wrote: »
    On the contrary, the grinning Nancy that is Waltz's Blofeld bears no resemblance whatsoever to Fleming's bulky, otherworldly, and ice cold monster. Rather, he looks like Bond's personal physician in Shrublands.
    Blofeld as described in OHMSS novel.
    rYRqtZSm.jpg?1

    Blofeld as seen in SPECTRE.
    2AC31EB100000578-0-image-a-10_1437605938070.jpg
    For those that want to know how Blofeld is described in other novels

    blofelds.jpg
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    That's a brilliant scene @BondJasonBond006. I don't know what you mean....
  • Hmmmm, I think Silva's introduction was a masterpiece. So I really don't mind his very late introduction. It gives the movie more mystery at the start.

    One thing I am absolutely certain now, is that the four Craig-films have way way better Bond villains than the four Brosnan films.

    --> Le Chiffre
    --> Mr White
    --> Silva
    --> Hinx
    --> Oberhauser/Blofeld

    In comparison I think....

    --> Gustav Graves
    --> Elliot Carver
    --> Alec Trevelyan
    --> Renard

    ...all lacked something real sinister. They were just 'there' most of the time. Only exception for me would be Elektra King. Delightful female villain.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Why are you forgetting snakey Greene? He was brilliant imho. Almaric nailed the greasiness of the character.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Hmmmm, I think Silva's introduction was a masterpiece. So I really don't mind his very late introduction. It gives the movie more mystery at the start.

    One thing I am absolutely certain now, is that the four Craig-films have way way better Bond villains than the four Brosnan films.

    --> Le Chiffre
    --> Mr White
    --> Silva
    --> Hinx
    --> Oberhauser/Blofeld

    In comparison I think....

    --> Gustav Graves
    --> Elliot Carver
    --> Alec Trevelyan
    --> Renard

    ...all lacked something real sinister. They were just 'there' most of the time. Only exception for me would be Elektra King. Delightful female villain.

    Incomplete dear Gustav!

    and Hinx doesn't count otherwise you have to put Onatopp and Stamper into the list as well.

    For main villains my ranking:

    1. Trevelyan
    2. Le Chiffre
    3. Carver
    4. Greene
    5. Graves
    6. Renard
    7. Silva
  • Posts: 16
    Waltz was great! Loved the Movie.
  • Posts: 1,680
    Oberhauser had the perfect amount of screen time. Fear was his theme. His entrance is better than Silvas IMO, Oberhauser has more layers to him.

    One of the false rumors I really liked before Skyfall came out was that Bond & Silvas fathers were 00s & Silvas father killed Bonds.

    How much do you want to bet in the next film its revealed Oberhauser killed Bonds parents.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    How much do you want to bet in the next film its revealed Oberhauser killed Bonds parents.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    bondjames wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    How much do you want to bet in the next film its revealed Oberhauser killed Bonds parents.

    =)) =))
  • Posts: 2,491
    bondjames wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    How much do you want to bet in the next film its revealed Oberhauser killed Bonds parents.

    Seconded. The adoptive brother angle is too much...but this ? Ooooh noo....please no...
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    LeChiffre and Greene, I definitely prefer over Silva. Sam Mendes has campy villains rather than just larger than life ones. It's a lot to ask any actor to take back Blofeld from Dr Evil when forced to where a Nehru jacket and a scar down your eye and face. I think a better solution for a rebooted modern take is to go for the Thunderball description and than make Dr Evil irrelevant.

    Having said that, Waltz is as always, awesome. If you're not paying attention, he phones it in. If you are, he nails every word, nuance, tilt of silhouetted head and never in a condescended actor fashion. I agree that he's never physically menacing, but there is definitely fear in the Rome mtg. His comic touches and craziness also underplay the fear factor in his lair, until he touches his tablet and the lights go dark and all the workers stand and face him in silence. It's about psychological control and he has it.

    I'm looking forward to seeing how he continues the role. I do hope they avoid the bald cliche though and p adopt Blofeld's willingness to change his appearance for anonymity sake.

    Also, was that Irma Bunt at the table?
  • EsotericEsoteric Poland
    Posts: 28
    Can someone quote what Oberhauser said on his reveal? I mean, i was so thrilled during that scene i thought my heart will explode or jump out of my chest - i knew it was coming and when it did i could only hear "Ernst Stavro Blofeld" and i reacted a bit loud :D And because of the emotions i've missed every other word prior to that name reveal.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Esoteric wrote: »
    Can someone quote what Oberhauser said on his reveal? I mean, i was so thrilled during that scene i thought my heart will explode or jump out of my chest - i knew it was coming and when it did i could only hear "Ernst Stavro Blofeld" and i reacted a bit loud :D And because of the emotions i've missed every other word prior to that name reveal.

    Franz Oberhauser died 20 years ago, in avalanche along with his father. The man you are now talking to, the man that is in your head is, Ernst Stavro Blofeld.

    Along those lines.
  • Posts: 387
    Miss. They tell us this guy killed is whole squadron so that he and Mr White can survive in the desert, and what we get is this smiling idiot in a Mao jacket, whi is angry because Bond stole his father affection. ie we get Mr Evil in Austin Powers. This is a joke, apart from the rome scene where we don't see him, he looks harmless, in a hand to hand fight, Bond would break him in a minute, or with one punch.
    Waltz is just cashing the check, and second, he is nothing without Tarantino. He is a bad vilain in Green Hornet too.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited November 2015 Posts: 1,731
    Better than Bardem's idiotic grinning innuendo, not quite as good as Mikkelson's subtle Le Chiffre though, imo.

    Overall I suppose a hit, as he made what could have been a very campy character work.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Waltz is not underused: Blofeld needs to stay in the shadows mostly, a presence that is difficult to perceive. He is, after all, a ghost. There was a risk of overusing him actually.

    Looking back at the previous three movies, it makes perfect sense than the shadowy organization that we had seen in CR and QOS (albeit with a different name) had a leader and was not merely run by a committee of villains. I suspect they wrote SP with a crypto-Blofeld in mind at first, then when they had the rights secured they decided to make him Blofeld.

    His up-front presence certainly didn't hurt OHMSS one bit. Then again, Telly's take was vastly superior.

    Blofeld was not upfront in OHMSS: he appears quite a while into the film (halfway?). He is referred to a long time before showing up. Same thing in the novel. It is early to tell which one I prefer over Savalas or Waltz, but Waltz is certainly a hit for me.

    I would wager Telly occupied a far higher percentage of OHMSS' running time than Waltz did SP's.

    That may be so but he is still unseen for the first half or so of the movie. Besides, that is beside the point: Dr No is only seen a few minutes before the end of the movie titled after him and it does serve him.
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Waltz is not underused: Blofeld needs to stay in the shadows mostly, a presence that is difficult to perceive. He is, after all, a ghost. There was a risk of overusing him actually.

    Looking back at the previous three movies, it makes perfect sense than the shadowy organization that we had seen in CR and QOS (albeit with a different name) had a leader and was not merely run by a committee of villains. I suspect they wrote SP with a crypto-Blofeld in mind at first, then when they had the rights secured they decided to make him Blofeld.

    His up-front presence certainly didn't hurt OHMSS one bit. Then again, Telly's take was vastly superior.

    Blofeld was not upfront in OHMSS: he appears quite a while into the film (halfway?). He is referred to a long time before showing up. Same thing in the novel. It is early to tell which one I prefer over Savalas or Waltz, but Waltz is certainly a hit for me.

    I would wager Telly occupied a far higher percentage of OHMSS' running time than Waltz did SP's.

    Savalas benefitted from being in a seminal film. Objectively he's not really that close to Fleming's Blofeld. Waltz is.

    Indeed. Savalas does have something of Blofeld's look in the novel TB, but his attitude is different in many aspects: he is more active, for one, he also seems to have a certain attraction towards women. Waltz's Blofeld is far more cerebral and may be asexual... Just like the novel's Blofeld. He is certainly a puritan: I need to watch the movie, but do we see him smoke or drink at all?

    But I'm afraid Dr. No's minuscule screen time does hurt him and the film. He was such a captivating presence this viewer always feels a bit deprived at the end. DN would have benefited from having Joseph Wiseman on screen considerably more. But that's not a problem with Waltz-Blofeld because he's largely a cipher who doesn't possess an ounce of the proper Blofeld malevolence to begin with, so nothing lost really. Given, however, Waltz's lack of screen time, I fail entirely to see how you can conclude that he is a cerebral, asexual puritan.

    It's in the attitude, not so much what he does as what he doesn't do: we don't see him drinking or smoking, his voice is cold and drone like, there's something of the eunuch in him. He doesn't even seem to have homosexual desires like say Silva had. Or to a lesser extend Le Chiffre.
  • sunsanvilsunsanvil Somewhere in Canada....somewhere.
    Posts: 260
    On the whole, for me it was something of a miss. When he first entered the meeting, we were shown the fear and tension of everyone else in the room. That was perfect. But then later in the film he somehow looses that gravity and is just another vanilla "boss" antagonist character.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    sunsanvil wrote: »
    On the whole, for me it was something of a miss. When he first entered the meeting, we were shown the fear and tension of everyone else in the room. That was perfect. But then later in the film he somehow looses that gravity and is just another vanilla "boss" antagonist character.

    Precisely.........I agree completely.

    The SPECTRE meet and the funeral were great intro's. When he finally is revealed it reminded me a bit of Pleasance's intro in YOLT......a complete letdown. Maybe Blofeld should indeed always remain in the shadows because that's when he's best (including in the Connery films).

    Having said that, the threat of Bardem's Silva was also more menacing before he arrived ("What do you know about fear?") but I loved his OTT entrance.
  • Posts: 100
    Based on one viewing only (always a bad moment to make a judgement) I would have preferred Oberhauser and Blofeld to be separate entities. And if they insisted on merging them, I can't help feeling it would have seemed less contrived had the identity reveal been the other way around; i.e. Bond spends the majority of the film hunting down the mysterious Ernst Stavro Blofeld, only to find out when they meet that he had a personal link with him all along.

    That said, I thought Waltz gave a very accomplished performance and the film on the whole was great fun. But enough of the Bond backstory now, I think.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    blakewho wrote: »
    I can't help feeling it would have seemed less contrived had the identity reveal been the other way around; i.e. Bond spends the majority of the film hunting down the mysterious Ernst Stavro Blofeld, only to find out when they meet that he had a personal link with him all along.
    That's an interesting idea. If executed properly, it could have worked.
  • I've seen a lot from reviews and the GA who have seen it complaining that Waltz doesn't have a lot of screentime as the villain.

    Yet they seem to forget that even in Dr. No you didn't see Joseph Wiseman until near the very end of the movie, there was just this underlining sense of fear and mystery throughout, which I feel is exactly the same in SP.

    It's not about how much screentime the character has its about what they do when they are on screen and Waltz played it to perfection, a real sense of evil and insanity behind those eyes.

    Also how often is it that a Bond villain is left alive at the end of the movie?!

    I can assure you he will be back.
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