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So I feel fairly assured in suggesting that, at least during the tenures of Connery, Lazenby, Moore and even Dalton, spoilers weren’t really much of an issue. When I saw Kristatos and Colombo in FYEO, I knew right away which one was going to be the bad guy. And when Felix Leiter was hauled before the villains at the Ouroborous Trading Company, I wasn’t at all surprised to find that he was about to be eaten by something that disagreed with him. (Spoiler warning: shame about Della, though!) Even during Brosnan‘s tenure as Bond, I wasn’t at all surprised to find that Gustav Graves hadn’t appeared out of nowhere with a zillion dollars and a space laser without developing a little bit of a past history that he was trying to hide.
My question to you all, then is: how and when did spoilers become such a big issue for this franchise? Is it simply the emergence of the internet that is the Big Bad Villain of this story? Can we add the Henchman of the rise of Fan Culture as the Oddjob to our little tale? Or is the Femme Fatale of the Sony Leaks largely the cause of our sexy/naughty moralistic reaction to the dastardly plot embodied in these spoilers? What say you all?
I'm allergic to spoilers, well to the Bond films anyway. I don't really care about any other film being spoiled for me, as I'm not invested in the way that I am about the Bond universe. Each Bond film is the same routine - I read the official synopsis, and see each new trailer, but that's it. Ideally I would not hear the theme song beforehand, and have it revealed to me during the main titles. I like to be surprised when entering the fabulous world of James Bond. Be that bad surprised Die Another Day, pleasantly surprised Casino Royale or just good surprised Skyfall.
I think @Birdleson summed it up, and I experienced the same spoiler in another thread -
It's gotten so bad, that I didn't want to hear other peoples opinions about Spectre, until I watched the movie.
But why is that? @Beatles hypothesized about the possible reasons above.
I blame the internet. If we didn't have such resources at our fingertips, regrading plotlines etc. As such, we all exclaim loudly at the merest hint of a spoiler.
I should imagine pre-internet days, that one would scoop up any morsel of information re. Bond. Sans the movies based on Fleming works of course. Although, I would be thrilled to see the keel hauling scene in For Your Eyes Only or the elements in Licence to Kill from Fleming's Live and Let Die. I wouldn't want that ruined for me I don't think.
Well, I've run out off puff. I hope that made sense!
For me, I enjoy seeing a Bond film as fresh as I can, without knowing much ahead of time. That has not changed. Even when very young, I did not like to know much about films before seeing them - certainly not main plot points or twists. I was happy to know the main actors. For a Bond film that is more so and always has been for me. I want it be unfolded to me when I see it on the screen for the 1st time.
What has changed is the media blitz of details everywhere - tv and especially the internet. I don't have tv here, which is helpful. But I am online every day. The blizzard of available details and discussions that go on about them - as soon as a film is previewed even, let alone open to the general public - is a million times more than in the past. So specific details, photos, plot twists are all far more saturated in our world now. It was much, much easier to remain spoiler free in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and even the 90s.
Sure I know basically how a Bond films goes in broad terms (there is a villain, there is a beautiful woman, Bond is not going to die, etc.) and I've read all the Fleming stories. But as @chrisisall mentioned, the small surprises are great. So I don't want to know everything before seeing a Bond film. I don't mind know some things. The trailers have not ruined it for me. So far, I am about where I was for Skyfall; fairly unspoiled. Looking forward to enjoying seeing SPECTRE unfold, not knowing where its going really, not having seen too many scenes in photos or videos, and it will be an exciting, interesting experience that I can be fully drawn into. I won't be clocking mentally the scenes I have already seen or when something happens think about how that was discussed beforehand. I mainly do not want to know main plot points OR plot twists.
You can use spoiler tags here if needed; I don't look into them. I'm perfectly happy with everything that is discussed here. And @Beatles has raised a good question. Maybe I am a little different in that I have not changed my attitude about being spoiled for an upcoming film ... I've always felt that way ... but it is harder these days not to be, for sure.
The Sony leaks are definitely a factor. That has made this time much more difficult and the danger of real spoilers is stronger. We have been on high alert now since December, basically. That is different this time.
And I still want my small surprises. I want this to be a fun, immersive experience for me. That's my point.
Besides, @Thunderfinger told me that
If Henny Youngman were a Bond villain, what would his trademark punchline be? "Take my life -- please, take my life!" (Badda-BUMP!) Thanks very much ladies & gentlemen, you've been a great audience. I'll be here all week, so tell your friends, tell your enemies, tell complete strangers. Try the veal & don't forget to tip your waitress -- you never know, she could turn out to be Tiffany Case.
I have to say, I find spoiler tags immensely irritating, simply because they hinder proper discourse on any given subject matter. Having to repeatedly click on spoiler tags breaks one's train of thought when reading a post and makes one less likely to respond for fear of inadvertently upsetting someone.
Okay, you may say, I don't want the movie spoiled before I've seen it.
I say back that you'd need to be living on another planet not to have the movie spoiled in one way or another. Even a five year old child watching all the SP trailers could easily piece together all the major "surprises" in this movie.
I daresay that spoilerphobes like to pretend they don't know the so-called "surprises" and get all upset and hot-under-the-collar when someone has the temerity to burst their bubble of denial, but is this not somewhat reminiscent of a child covering its ears and shouting "lalala, I can't hear you"?
And we're not children, are we?
Agreed. I was chastised on numerous occasions pre-UK release for either using, or asking for the use of tags, because apparently 'everyone knows that already' and of course it's such a f****** chore for the arseholes amongst us to click on a tag... well, that sort of presumption spoiled many things for many people and that's a fact @Darius. And it's not just a case of having things spoiled for one's self, I had various things spoiled by a number of bleating idiots and went out of my way to make sure the same didn't happen to others. If people haven't got the decency to stop and think about their comments they shouldn't be posting. Sometimes it's accidental, but on many occasions it's quite purposeful and moronic behaviour.
Funny you should mention The Empire Strikes Back…
In the ‘80s and early ‘90s, I was working in the low rungs of the comic book industry, as branch manager for a major distributor of comics. All the Marvel and DC Comics of that time (as well as those from Eclipse, First, Dark Horse and so forth) passed through my hands on their way to the shelves of comic book stores in the San Francisco Bay Area. The Marvel Comics’ adaptation of Empire, collected in one edition as a Marvel Comics Super-Special, was printed in upstate New York, put onto trucks and drop-shipped from the printer to the various distributors’ warehouses. Obviously, it arrived at warehouses on the East Coast several days before reaching the West Coast, and just as obviously, was distributed to comics shops in New York City before arriving anywhere else. As was then standard practice, it was also scheduled to be released a few weeks before the movie itself reached theatres, so that an eager first-night movie-goer could see the film, love it, and go straight to their local comics shop and buy the adaptation.
Now, my memories of this are several decades old, and they were hearsay at the time, but they go like this: SOMEbody connected with the film (my memory says Mark Hamill, but again: 30-plus year old memories of hearsay to begin with so maybe it wasn’t really him, maybe it was his agent or his hairdresser) happened to wander into a New York City comic book store, saw the full adaptation of Empire on the stands a week before the movie was due to be released… and the feces was introduced to the fan in a rather abrupt fashion. Lucasfilms hadn’t specified to Marvel, “Hey release this book after a certain day, willya, we’ve got some major plot twists in here and we don’t want the word getting out in advance of the film’s release.” Marvel had simply gone with standard industry practice at that time. Get the book on the stands just before the film is released. Remember, their adaptation of the original Star Wars film had come out in monthly installments beginning MONTHS before the release of that film (and concluding a few months after that release) and was a major factor in that movie finding a welcome reception among genre fans of the time. No real fault to Marvel here, just a few noses pushed out of joint. Still, this was a BIG HONKIN’ DEAL in a fairly small industry. The call went out to distributors throughout the country, days before most of us had received the book: if you’ve gotten it and already distributed it, ask your dealers to take it off sale until the day the movie is released. (I’m told that some East Coast dealers complied and a few didn’t.) If you haven’t gotten it yet, DON’T DISTRIBUTE IT. Not until the day the movie is released. Hide your copies somewhere safe, don’t even open the boxes to read the blessed thing yourself. Above all, if you’re distributing to the San Francisco Bay Area (and yes, this means YOU, young Mister Beatles) DON’T LET IT GET INTO A STORE IN YOUR NECK OF THE WOODS ahead of the newly-specified release date! God forbid George Lucas should walk into a comic book store in Marin County and find his Big Deal Film spoilered by those goofballs at Marvel who just thought they were doing their jobs, only to learn that the rules of the game had changed abruptly while the game was still in play.
So: when the boxes containing that particular issue of Marvel Super-Special arrived at my warehouse, they dutifully got stashed in the back unopened. A few folks inquired about it and were stonewalled. The film was released as scheduled with only a few folks in the New York City area spoilered, and with no internet to spread the information, the plot twist contained in that book was effectively kiboshed for a week or so. A few years later, when the adaptation for Return of the Jedi was released, everybody knew how to proceed: keep that puppy under wraps, away from prying eyes (and there were a few) until the film hits the theatres. Only one other film adaptation was similarly embargoed until the release date of the movie in question…the Marvel Comics Super-Special adaptation of Octopussy.
Surprisingly (to me, anyway)…nobody cared. Nobody even ASKED to see it in advance of the film’s release. And there was no Marvel Comics adaptation of Never Say Never Again.
I think trailers have something to do with it too. If I look at trailers from the sixties, they evidently focus on the story of the film. Take the 'Thomas Crown Affair'. You just get a feeling for the atmosphere of the movie, and an idea of what the story is about. These days they tend to show the most spectacular/funny/ dramatic (depending on the genre) parts of the film. How often do you see the trailer of a comedy, think it's going to be fun only to find out you've seen all the good jokes already?
And indeed, with the internet we get the possibility to share each nugget of information. Journalists want scoops and will do anything to find out everything regarding a movie, as long as it means reaching a large audience. So, in olden days a 'scoop' might've shown up in a local paper somewhere and dissapeared quite quickly. Now, it's shared through the internet and pops up everywhere.
The leaks made it even worse. But still, the question remains: why are 'spoilers' worse now then they were in the past? I think that's because they stay in front of you
all the time. If you'd read something in the past before a film started, you wouldn't have it ready when you went in. Or maybe you'd just wonder how they were going to do whatever was the spoiler. Now, it all gets explained in the smalles detail. Putting meaning to it, etc. etc.
I've stayed quite spoiler free until I saw the movie. The example given by @Darius is a good one. Yes, I could've worked it out beforehand, but as it was just a snippet of info I'd picked up, it wasn't in my mind at all going into the film. And, frankly, I preferred it that way. It was still an 'aha'moment for me in the first viewing. (@4Ever don't open the spoiler tags! ;-) ).
@Beatles fascinating story! It goes to show peope in the past stayed relatively spoiler free.
Until then, we were just going to have different Bond chat. You are welcome to bring up suggestions to @BeatlesSansEarmuffs (who is in charge at this time, in spite of my irritating habit of not staying off this thread!). ;) But nothing to do with SPECTRE (except brief, nonspoilerish opinion) until Dec. 6th.
That is in about two weeks, gentlemen. Till then, feel free to discuss many Bondian things. Have at it. I know you can do it. You are all superb Bond fans, have plenty to chew over regarding Bond, and this is a special thread. It is different. Within this 2 weeks waiting period, I feel you can chat about many things. Indeed, you can hone your thoughts on SPECTRE on other threads and then be ready to concisely slice and dice and wield your words on Dec. 6th with all of us here.
Be kind. There is a lot of crap in the world right now; heavy stuff indeed, tearing at our hearts and minds. This thread is our home away from home. This is SirHenry's place. Be friends. Lighten up a bit. Have fun!
See you soon ...
Pax :)>-
4EverBonded
I hadn't realised you had been appointed a moderator. No doubt the memo will filter down in due course.
You must, of course, be referring to what you consider to be my poor use of syntax and grammar. You can't be referring to any profanity in my posts, because there is none.
In future, please keep your admonishments to yourself unless they are warranted.
@Darius, as you may know I've been asked to be this thread's lead in @4EverBonded's brief absence. @CommanderRoss was only asking you to keep the sense of respect that I alluded to above in your postings. As you may have noted, various other posters took exception to your characterization of them as children. We can agree to disagree without being insulting to one another. @OHMSS, please edit your post re: Blofeld so that the spoiler embedded therein is no longer visible to all. Thanks for your co-operation, everybody! We'll be able to operate without regard to spoiler warnings in a few short weeks -- surely we can remain civilized until then!
I do not know how to do those cute "spoiler" tags and all those bells and whistles when it comes to anything tech. I am the most techno-deprived dinosaur on this board.
I will delete my posts since I got my question answered by a couple of my fellow originals.
Peace Out :)>-
But in a good way, right?