Time to get rid of Purvis and Wade?

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Comments

  • Posts: 11,189
    Doesn't Fleming talk about how, normally, Bond disliked the idea of seduction and romance. He considered it trivial and unnecessary. However with Vesper it was different. She caught him off guard and he was getting deeper feelings for her.
  • Posts: 297
    Yeah, true. But part of the deeper feelings was about whether his equipment was still left in working order after that night in LeChiffre's house. So the nature of the deeper feelings isn't entirely beyond doubt.
  • Posts: 1,497
    P & W: Love those guys!!! :-bd
  • Posts: 9,853
    He won't direct it, because he's American.

    It would be a shame to rule him out because of his nationality, no ?

    if so Fine Fincher to direct Batman post Nolan Mendes or Nolan to do bond 24..Agreed?

  • edited December 2011 Posts: 11,425
    Nolan would be awful for Bond. His films are usually humourless and too long. I'm not sure whether the whole recent 'big name' director trajectory is a good thing. The old journeyman hacks produced the best Bond movies. They were people who knew the trade inside out and understood how to craft an entertaining mix of the Bond 'ingredients'.
  • Posts: 1,894
    For all the flak Purvis and Wade take, it could be worse - Andre Nemec and Josh Applebaum produced one of the worst scripts that I've seen for a long time for GHOST PROTOCOL.
  • Posts: 1,497
    For all the flak Purvis and Wade take, it could be worse - Andre Nemec and Josh Applebaum produced one of the worst scripts that I've seen for a long time for GHOST PROTOCOL.

    A member said on here that Purvis and Wade are best as "ideas" guys; it's the execution that doesn't always deliver. TWINE is the most obvious example. I felt like they had a pretty interesting premise with the kidnapping schemes and Elektra's plans to expand the scope of her family's pipeline. Yet, the way the film actually plays out, the whole concept has the wind taken out of it. So with that being said, I find Purvis and Wade to be a valuable asset, it's just that we need someone like Logan to step in to steer things in the right direction. A good director helps too.
  • A lot of people on here are unfairly maligning the scriptwriters because they don't like the film. I agree with comments about TWINE and DAD, but I think others have covered pretty well how those scripts were changed by the director (which it is the Director's right to do - if you don't like a film its the Director's fault, because they have the ultimate say).

    Tamahori was reported to have come up with the whole ending to DAD, and although I think its one of the worst Bond films, the plotting is actually quite clever, and I love the first third of it (okay, surfing apart).

    I always thought Casino Royale was unfilmable, because all the action happens in the first third of the book. What P&W did [very cleverly I thought], was make that the second half of the film, by creating a well plotted and believable back story leading up to the Casino scenes. That shows the class of their abilities to me.

    It was also clear (and I saw them give a talk just after DAD came out) that they were very uncomfortable with Brosnan-era Bond films, the comic book gimmickry, and wanted to return to a more Fleming-esque story. They did that and the Series took off again.

    I trust them more with Bond at the moment than anyone else in the world (apart from Michael Wilson, who has commissioned them for every Bond film since TMD, because he knows that too).
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2012 Posts: 6,356
    Getafix wrote:
    Nolan would be awful for Bond. His films are usually humourless and too long. I'm not sure whether the whole recent 'big name' director trajectory is a good thing. The old journeyman hacks produced the best Bond movies. They were people who knew the trade inside out and understood how to craft an entertaining mix of the Bond 'ingredients'.

    I couldn't agree more.

    Nolan, frankly, would be too powerful for Wilson and Broccoli; he'd demand complete control in a way that other recent directors have not.

    In contrast, Mendes is hungry, looking for a career boost through Bond; his recent films have not done very well.
  • tqbtqb
    Posts: 1,022
    echo wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Nolan would be awful for Bond. His films are usually humourless and too long. I'm not sure whether the whole recent 'big name' director trajectory is a good thing. The old journeyman hacks produced the best Bond movies. They were people who knew the trade inside out and understood how to craft an entertaining mix of the Bond 'ingredients'.

    I couldn't agree more.

    Nolan, frankly, would be too powerful for Wilson and Broccoli; he'd demand complete control in a way that other recent directors have not.

    In contrast, Mendes is hungry, looking for a career boost through Bond; his recent films have not done very well.

    i agree with both of you- but i think Nolan could write a bond flick. Him and his brother. and have someone else direct.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    edited January 2012 Posts: 1,986
    Getafix wrote:
    Just been watching the excellent reviews of the Brosnan era films on haphazardstuff.com (http://haphazardstuff.com/DieAnotherDay.html) and have been further convinced that Purvis and Wade are the root cause of the attrocious stories and scripts that have afflicted the series since Goldeneye. Daniel Craig has benefited from some good script-doctoring, particularly on Casino Royal, which had the natural advantage of an original Fleming story, but otherwise Purvis and Wade produce utterly dire work. Hopefully John Logan will inject some life into Skyfall, but why tolerate such awful base material. To paraphrase Jeremy Clarkson, Purvis and Wade should be taken out and have their licenses revoked. Writing a Bond script is a huge responsibility and honour - one which this hopeless pair have shown on countless occassions that they are not capable of living up to.

    I suggest you read my thoughts on DAD ;) 4th review down.

    http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/movies/dad_reviews.php3?t=dad&s=dad

    As for P&W, or as I like to call them, Dumb and Dumber, I'd rather have my building's janitor write it, I hear he once had a "C" in Grade 6 English literature.
  • Posts: 5,745
    tqb wrote:
    echo wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Nolan would be awful for Bond. His films are usually humourless and too long. I'm not sure whether the whole recent 'big name' director trajectory is a good thing. The old journeyman hacks produced the best Bond movies. They were people who knew the trade inside out and understood how to craft an entertaining mix of the Bond 'ingredients'.

    I couldn't agree more.

    Nolan, frankly, would be too powerful for Wilson and Broccoli; he'd demand complete control in a way that other recent directors have not.

    In contrast, Mendes is hungry, looking for a career boost through Bond; his recent films have not done very well.

    i agree with both of you- but i think Nolan could write a bond flick. Him and his brother. and have someone else direct.

    First: Nolan does have some humor. Page's character in Inception, as well as Tom Hardy's character. Notable "don't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling *pulls out grenade launcher*"

    Second: Complete control (pretty much) has been given to Mendes and Craig together, so why not the Nolan crew and Craig/whoever. I mean I'd like to think if there was ever a point to say no, Babs and Michael could say 'no' but DAD doesn't back that up :P

    Third: Mendes 'recent' films, first, aren't that recent. He doesn't have a large track record, and for someone with so few films, he's quite the big hitter in both the critics eyes and in the viewers' wallets. What films of his 'as of late' haven't done well?

    Fourth: Nolan could definitely provide an intelligent, suspenseful, even thrilling plot. His action scenes would be beautiful. But Nolan is a man who writes the images in his head, so I think he'd have trouble writing and not directing.

    Fifth: I would LOVE for the producers to let a writer/director on board, like Nolan. Often the best pictures are made as a result. Both the Nolan Crew and Quentin Tarantino can create pure entertainment, because everything comes straight from them. It flows easier when writing and directing is done by the same person. That rumor of one of the writers directing Quantum of Solace would have been interesting if it fleshed out.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Nolan could not do a worse job than P+W.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,722
    Getafix wrote:
    Nolan could not do a worse job than P+W.

    then again, who could ?
  • Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote:
    Nolan could not do a worse job than P+W.

    then again, who could ?

    Harsh but true!

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited June 2012 Posts: 6,356
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Third: Mendes 'recent' films, first, aren't that recent. He doesn't have a large track record, and for someone with so few films, he's quite the big hitter in both the critics eyes and in the viewers' wallets. What films of his 'as of late' haven't done well?

    In Hollywood, you're only as bankable as your last film, and Mendes' last was Away We Go.
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Fourth: Nolan could definitely provide an intelligent, suspenseful, even thrilling plot. His action scenes would be beautiful. But Nolan is a man who writes the images in his head, so I think he'd have trouble writing and not directing.

    I liked Inception but thought that, in terms of excitement, his OHMSS homage scenes paled in comparison to the original.
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Fifth: I would LOVE for the producers to let a writer/director on board, like Nolan. Often the best pictures are made as a result. Both the Nolan Crew and Quentin Tarantino can create pure entertainment, because everything comes straight from them. It flows easier when writing and directing is done by the same person. That rumor of one of the writers directing Quantum of Solace would have been interesting if it fleshed out.

    I still feel that, at the end of the day, the Bond films are more producer-driven than writer- or director-driven. And note that Nolan uses his wife as his producer. I doubt there's room for a third producer on Eon films (McClory is the exception, but Eon was trying to stave off a lawsuit at the time.)

    Babs and MGW are protecting their families' nest egg. They knew better than to allow Haggis (widely praised for CR, rightly or wrongly) to go with the "Vesper's child" storyline in QoS, for instance.
  • Posts: 11,425
    They are prducer led but need decent scripts to work. Obviously Nolan would have to accept a different arrangement if he wrote and or directed Bond 24
  • Posts: 3,333
    I've never been a fan of P&W, but having read some of the older posts here there appears to be another offender in the form of Michael G. Wilson and his poorly conceived plot outlines. Of course none of this is helped by the intolerable one-liners and poor structuring from the Brothers Grim (DUD anyone?) but it does show that Bond would be far better off without Michael G. Wilson's tinkering and personal belief that he's a gifted storyteller when he simply is not.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    If you're going to blame Wilson, blame Maibaum as well. During the 80's they worked together.
  • A lot of the dreck that was in DAD was from Lee Tamahori...cgi surfing for example. God knows how much more stuff he injected into the screenplay by P&W. If however they did come up with the invisible car then I say fire them now...I might have to listen to the audio commentary again just to find out for sure!
  • Posts: 11,425
    Samuel001 wrote:
    If you're going to blame Wilson, blame Maibaum as well. During the 80's they worked together.

    Maibaum produced some good stories and entertaining scripts. Fans of 'dour' Bond may not like them, but by comparison with the Brosnan scripts they were works of art.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Samuel001 wrote:
    If you're going to blame Wilson, blame Maibaum as well. During the 80's they worked together.

    Why would I do that? Maibaum has produced some wonderful scripts in the past, includuing Mel Gibson's Ransom which was all done without MGW's interference I might add.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, Sammy, but isn't Maibaum unable to contribute to anymore Bond storylines - especially the one's we've been talking about here - namely the Brosnan/Craig ones? I do think it's very churlish of you to want to lay the blame at such a brilliant and highly esteemed screenwriter especially when they're in their final resting place. How tacky.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,356
    Samuel001 wrote:
    If you're going to blame Wilson, blame Maibaum as well. During the 80's they worked together.

    I think their '80s track record was pretty great! Only one dud as far as I'm concerned.

    Maibaum was refreshingly honest about his scripts. I remember an interview where he was talking about AVTAK and how he may have overdone it with Zorin's backstory.

  • Posts: 147
    Getafix wrote:
    Just been watching the excellent reviews of the Brosnan era films on haphazardstuff.com (http://haphazardstuff.com/DieAnotherDay.html) and have been further convinced that Purvis and Wade are the root cause of the attrocious stories and scripts that have afflicted the series since Goldeneye. Daniel Craig has benefited from some good script-doctoring, particularly on Casino Royal, which had the natural advantage of an original Fleming story, but otherwise Purvis and Wade produce utterly dire work. Hopefully John Logan will inject some life into Skyfall, but why tolerate such awful base material. To paraphrase Jeremy Clarkson, Purvis and Wade should be taken out and have their licenses revoked. Writing a Bond script is a huge responsibility and honour - one which this hopeless pair have shown on countless occassions that they are not capable of living up to.

    Agree 100% with this! The only good job they did was Casino Royal and that was only because they stayed mostly true to the book.

    We need someone new and fresh.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,230
    WVPoef wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    Just been watching the excellent reviews of the Brosnan era films on haphazardstuff.com (http://haphazardstuff.com/DieAnotherDay.html) and have been further convinced that Purvis and Wade are the root cause of the attrocious stories and scripts that have afflicted the series since Goldeneye. Daniel Craig has benefited from some good script-doctoring, particularly on Casino Royal, which had the natural advantage of an original Fleming story, but otherwise Purvis and Wade produce utterly dire work. Hopefully John Logan will inject some life into Skyfall, but why tolerate such awful base material. To paraphrase Jeremy Clarkson, Purvis and Wade should be taken out and have their licenses revoked. Writing a Bond script is a huge responsibility and honour - one which this hopeless pair have shown on countless occassions that they are not capable of living up to.

    Agree 100% with this! The only good job they did was Casino Royal and that was only because they stayed mostly true to the book.

    We need someone new and fresh.


    ....but they didn't stay true to the book, apart from the basic outline of the story. There was a lot of new material they had to come up with for the film to be effectively updated. Like someone previously said, the first 50 minutes of Casino Royale is efffectively a brand new script.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,356
    If you filmed CR faithfully, wouldn't it be about an hour long?
  • Posts: 1,548
    Wouldn't mind seeing what Joel Schumacher could do with a Bond flick. Just kidding1
  • For some unknown reason why they did not get fired after DAD!!!!!! a awful movie and they were still kept for "reboot" was a big mistake....looking at their writing credits majority of their movies are mostly failures in terms of reviews......johnny english, TWINE, DAD, are NEGATIVE
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited June 2012 Posts: 13,356
    bondsum wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    If you're going to blame Wilson, blame Maibaum as well. During the 80's they worked together.

    Why would I do that? Maibaum has produced some wonderful scripts in the past, includuing Mel Gibson's Ransom which was all done without MGW's interference I might add.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, Sammy, but isn't Maibaum unable to contribute to anymore Bond storylines - especially the one's we've been talking about here - namely the Brosnan/Craig ones? I do think it's very churlish of you to want to lay the blame at such a brilliant and highly esteemed screenwriter especially when they're in their final resting place. How tacky.

    Wilson has had nothing to do with the stories of the recent Bond films or their scripts. His last film as you know, was Licence To Kill. He didn't write the Brosnan/Craig films, so why blame him?

    The point I was trying to make was, Wilson's "poorly conceived plot outlines" were done in collaboration with Maibaum as they worked together for five films. They're both responsible for the outcome as is everyone else who worked on those films. Maibaum's past films have nothing to do with it. Bond films are a team effort. From The Spy Who Loved Me on, Wilson has had his foot in the door.

    I personally believe he has a far better handle on Bond than Barbara Broccoli. What "tinkering" and "interference" do you think he has done that offends you? Unless, if it's anything from For Your Eyes Only - Licence To Kill, you may have a point but even then it was a joint effort, otherwise it's unfair to lay the blame at his door as he didn't write any of the other films in question, namely, as you said, the Brosnan and Craig films we're talking about.

    And come on, it's not like I'm the first person to speak ill of the dead. It's hardly that big of a crime and I bet you I won't be the last to do so, even if it's not the 'done' thing to do.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    LeChiffre wrote:
    Wouldn't mind seeing what Joel Schumacher could do with a Bond flick. Just kidding1
    Don't even joke about that.

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