The SPECTRE vs Skyfall battle! (simple question)

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  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    We're two of a kind!
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 2,483
    royale65 wrote: »
    We're two of a kind!

    But hopefully not working on a full house.

    ;)

    PS--I've got SF at No. 2 and SP at No. 12, so I'd say I rate both of them fairly highly.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    It seems there are more of us than I imagined.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I prefer SP to the other Three Craig Bonds combined, IMO the best Bond films since DAD. So...SP wins for me.

    I'd take SP over CR-QOS-SF as well, that's a no-brainer.

    And I'm glad I finally see someone on this forum that likes DAD!
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,817
    Just updating my opinion - I do believe SF is markedly better than SP. Unlike SP it succeeds at what it sets out to do and is more well-made. It is technically speaking almost flawless, IMO.

    Oh and DAD isn't the worst film of course. Swordfight is thrilling and there are quite a few good scenes. But it definitely suffers from Tamahori's direction.
  • SatoriousSatorious Brushing up on a little Danish
    Posts: 233
    I feel CR is still the Daniel Craig movie to beat (especially after revisiting them all recently). The stripped back approach works really well, I don't appreciate "shoehorning".

    In this regard, SF is streets ahead of by the numbers" SP. SF was fresher and more invigorating with a better a story (ignoring the obvious "convenience" plot devices and similarities to TDK). It also had superior cinematography/grading, editing/pacing, performances. SP suffered from a hackneyed script (a case of "too many cooks" + familiar tropes). Curious to see what a solo Jez Butterworth might bring however. I do enjoy SP's pre-title sequence (let's choose to ignore that pretentious opening quote), the opening shot is amazing - but it is mostly downhill after this. Some of the humour is nice - particular M/Q banter. Hinx had potential to be an excellent henchman - sadly not fully realised. I can't shake the feeling that Mendes/Craig/Waltz were all a bit bored or perhaps distracted. I also think the marketing of the film (in particular Waltz's blatant denial of playing "that" role and Daniel's comments around the time) didn't help much. Would love to see a real shake-up for Bond 25!
  • Posts: 1,082
    I prefer SP to the other Three Craig Bonds combined, IMO the best Bond films since DAD. So...SP wins for me.

    I'd take SP over CR-QOS-SF as well, that's a no-brainer.

    And I'm glad I finally see someone on this forum that likes DAD!

    I especially like the second half (believe it or not). The car chase is especially awesome. Graves' Robocop suit might a little to outlandish, but as a whole I find DAD to be a very good blockbuster type of Bond Movie. And to me it's very clearly still a Bond MOVIE (in style), contrary to for instance SF.

    I got blasted a couple of years back when I claimed that CR and QOS were not very Bondian, as others countered that they actually were in the style that Fleming described in his novels. Well, now that I've read the novels I still don't agree. Ok, CR's plot is similar to its source novel if you keep in mind that it was made 50 years afterwards. But the style/tone of these Movies (and SF)? is IMO not similar to Fleming at all, which of course DAD isn't either. However, DAD atleast feels like a slice of the cinematic Bond, something Craig's Three first Movies fails at IMO. This is one thing that SP excels at in comparision. And like the other Craig Bonds, it is also a very good Action Movie.
  • I prefer SP to the other Three Craig Bonds combined, IMO the best Bond films since DAD. So...SP wins for me.

    I'd take SP over CR-QOS-SF as well, that's a no-brainer.

    And I'm glad I finally see someone on this forum that likes DAD!

    I especially like the second half (believe it or not). The car chase is especially awesome. Graves' Robocop suit might a little to outlandish, but as a whole I find DAD to be a very good blockbuster type of Bond Movie. And to me it's very clearly still a Bond MOVIE (in style), contrary to for instance SF.

    I got blasted a couple of years back when I claimed that CR and QOS were not very Bondian, as others countered that they actually were in the style that Fleming described in his novels. Well, now that I've read the novels I still don't agree. Ok, CR's plot is similar to its source novel if you keep in mind that it was made 50 years afterwards. But the style/tone of these Movies (and SF)? is IMO not similar to Fleming at all, which of course DAD isn't either. However, DAD atleast feels like a slice of the cinematic Bond, something Craig's Three first Movies fails at IMO. This is one thing that SP excels at in comparision. And like the other Craig Bonds, it is also a very good Action Movie.

    CR and QOS are probably closer to Fleming though than DAD... Bond spinning around in a gadget-laden invisible car being chased by a gadget-laden Jaguar through an ice palace that is collapsing from the laser of an outerspace satellite might be the complete antithesis of Fleming.
  • Posts: 1,082
    [quote="IncompetentHenchman;569904
    CR and QOS are probably closer to Fleming though than DAD... Bond spinning around in a gadget-laden invisible car being chased by a gadget-laden Jaguar through an ice palace that is collapsing from the laser of an outerspace satellite might be the complete antithesis of Fleming.[/quote]

    I think neither is close to Fleming. DAD sure is far from "Flemingesque", but antithesis...no. Many of Fleming's novels have a distinct Over The Top Fantasy element to them, so in that regard it atleast isn't the antithesis.

    And one complaint I've seen about DAD is that it has too many Bond elements (cinematic Bond, mind you), almost being parodic because of them. That should tell you something about the Movie. Good or bad, DAD (atleast to me) is clearly a Bond Movie.

  • Yes DAD feels very Bond what I was saying is that it's not very Fleming. CR feels Bond in a modern unique way. QOS doesn't really feel very Bond. But SF feels even less Bond actually.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,082
    Yes DAD feels very Bond what I was saying is that it's not very Fleming. CR feels Bond in a modern unique way. QOS doesn't really feel very Bond. But SF feels even less Bond actually.

    Ok, then I agree with you, apart from CR being Bondian. Let's agree to disagree about that one. :)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I prefer SP to the other Three Craig Bonds combined, IMO the best Bond films since DAD. So...SP wins for me.

    I'd take SP over CR-QOS-SF as well, that's a no-brainer.

    And I'm glad I finally see someone on this forum that likes DAD!

    I especially like the second half (believe it or not). The car chase is especially awesome. Graves' Robocop suit might a little to outlandish, but as a whole I find DAD to be a very good blockbuster type of Bond Movie. And to me it's very clearly still a Bond MOVIE (in style), contrary to for instance SF.

    I got blasted a couple of years back when I claimed that CR and QOS were not very Bondian, as others countered that they actually were in the style that Fleming described in his novels. Well, now that I've read the novels I still don't agree. Ok, CR's plot is similar to its source novel if you keep in mind that it was made 50 years afterwards. But the style/tone of these Movies (and SF)? is IMO not similar to Fleming at all, which of course DAD isn't either. However, DAD atleast feels like a slice of the cinematic Bond, something Craig's Three first Movies fails at IMO. This is one thing that SP excels at in comparision. And like the other Craig Bonds, it is also a very good Action Movie.

    Well you haven't been around when I tried to explain to people why DAD isn't the evil thing they make it out to be.
    While I feel that CR somewhat feels like a Bond movie (but in many parts not), QOS simply isn't a Bond movie. Re-name the characters and nobody would even suspect it's Bond.
    SF was a one-off. A 50th Anniversary wanna-be artsy melodrama that took itself way too seriously, which is absolutely not Bond at all, if you think of it.

    Spectre is a triumph. Period. That's the way the Craig-era should have been since CR.
    At least EON gave the Bond back that worked so well for 40 years.
    On the other hand you can't blame them for doing SF, it worked and secured the longevity of the franchise.
    Not every Bond movie can suit the tastes of everyone.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 337
    To me, Skyfall is the better movie, but Spectre is the better Bond movie, mostly because it reminds me of the older Bonds which I enjoyed more than Craig's attempts at realism (except Casino Royale, which was excellently done).
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    To me, Skyfall is the better movie, but Spectre is the better Bond movie, mostly because it reminds me of the older Bonds which I enjoyed more than Craig's attempts at realism (except Casino Royale, which was excellently done).

    That's a very reasonable statement!
  • @BondJasonBond006 - Thanks! Skyfall was good but in a very different way to most Bonds. I left the cinema with a completely unprecedented feeling, and I wasn't quite sure if I had watched Bond or something else.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @BondJasonBond006 - Thanks! Skyfall was good but in a very different way to most Bonds. I left the cinema with a completely unprecedented feeling, and I wasn't quite sure if I had watched Bond or something else.

    That sums it up perfectly for me as well. I was disappointed that it was again (after QOS) not a real Bond movie. Even if I could see that it technically is one of the best Bonds.
    The cinematography, the sets, the atmosphere are just great. That's why it's not at the bottom of my list.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 337
    @BondJasonBond006 - Well, it definitely felt more like Bond than QoS, which was just too gritty. As an actual movie, I find it better because Craig comes off as more comfortable in the role in SF, and the cast in general is much better. And the theme song is so much better.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @BondJasonBond006 - Well, it definitely felt more like Bond than QoS, which was just too gritty. As an actual movie, I find it better because Craig comes off as more comfortable in the role in SF, and the cast in general is much better. And the theme song is so much better.

    Well, a screeching fork on a blackboard is better than the abominable Another Way Too Die :))
    Skyfall is a classic Bond song. Luckily.
    Craig was just bad-ass in QOS which I liked, even if it wasn't Bondesque at all.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    SF is an excellent Bond film imho, because it pushed the envelope and gave us something different for the 50th anniversary. Decidedly original and yet entertaining and suspenseful. It's precisely because it's atypical that I cherish it in the canon. For me, it's like FRWL in that respect and so it's an 'event' Bond for me for that very reason. I don't watch it all that often, but it's a special experience for me whenever I do.

    Just my opinion, but SP on the other hand isn't an excellent Bond film. It is a predictable one, with elements that are quite typical for the genre and done many times before and better, within the series itself and by competitors. A remixed greatest hits package with a few songs thrown in by the band to show they've not totally lost it, and like these sort of packages, the remixes are decidely subpar in comparison to the original. A tired affair. I very much agree with a poster a while back who suggested SP is Craig's DAD. A 'kitchen sink' Bond.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @bondjames

    I get what you're saying. SF is an event movie, that's true.
    SP isn't Craig's DAD though, it's Craig's GE or TSWLM, definitely.
  • Posts: 2,483
    I prefer SP to the other Three Craig Bonds combined, IMO the best Bond films since DAD. So...SP wins for me.

    I'd take SP over CR-QOS-SF as well, that's a no-brainer.

    And I'm glad I finally see someone on this forum that likes DAD!

    I especially like the second half (believe it or not). The car chase is especially awesome. Graves' Robocop suit might a little to outlandish, but as a whole I find DAD to be a very good blockbuster type of Bond Movie. And to me it's very clearly still a Bond MOVIE (in style), contrary to for instance SF.

    I got blasted a couple of years back when I claimed that CR and QOS were not very Bondian, as others countered that they actually were in the style that Fleming described in his novels. Well, now that I've read the novels I still don't agree. Ok, CR's plot is similar to its source novel if you keep in mind that it was made 50 years afterwards. But the style/tone of these Movies (and SF)? is IMO not similar to Fleming at all, which of course DAD isn't either. However, DAD atleast feels like a slice of the cinematic Bond, something Craig's Three first Movies fails at IMO. This is one thing that SP excels at in comparision. And like the other Craig Bonds, it is also a very good Action Movie.

    CR and QOS are probably closer to Fleming though than DAD... Bond spinning around in a gadget-laden invisible car being chased by a gadget-laden Jaguar through an ice palace that is collapsing from the laser of an outerspace satellite might be the complete antithesis of Fleming.

    To say the very least!

  • In my opinion, they should've done something like SP for the 50th anniversary, because that would've been a much better time to recall some of the older Bonds.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    bondjames wrote: »
    I very much agree with a poster a while back who suggested SP is Craig's DAD. A 'kitchen sink' Bond.

    That would be me :)

    I really think that SP might be remembered as Craig's bomb in the future, other than QoS (which might receive more favorable views in retrospect).

  • bondjames wrote: »
    I very much agree with a poster a while back who suggested SP is Craig's DAD. A 'kitchen sink' Bond.

    That would be me :)

    I really think that SP might be remembered as Craig's bomb in the future, other than QoS (which might receive more favorable views in retrospect).

    QOS already looks a bit better than in retrospect. One finds a newfound appreciation for the general chaos and frenetic nature of the action scenes as opposed to a boring car chase, a badly written escape sequence and a boring finale - all things in SP.

    Maybe.
  • Posts: 2,483
    bondjames wrote: »
    I very much agree with a poster a while back who suggested SP is Craig's DAD. A 'kitchen sink' Bond.

    That would be me :)

    I really think that SP might be remembered as Craig's bomb in the future, other than QoS (which might receive more favorable views in retrospect).

    QOS already looks a bit better than in retrospect. One finds a newfound appreciation for the general chaos and frenetic nature of the action scenes as opposed to a boring car chase, a badly written escape sequence and a boring finale - all things in SP.

    Maybe.

    I think the Rome car chase is one of the better ones in series history. Beautifully shot, two wonderful automobiles, and I love that flamethrower.

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    The Rome car chase gets misunderstood on this forum.
    It's brilliant, a masterpiece of cinematography, score, lighting, editing, humour and a ending that couldn't have been done better in the heyday of Brosnan or Moore.

    People complaining it doesn't scream "danger" don't get the purpose of it.
  • Posts: 7,430
    I love that car chase, but Mendes made a mistake by cutting to the phone conversation with Moneypenny. it regains its mojo though whenthe cars descends the steps. The flamethrower is a cracking moment!
  • Posts: 2,483
    The Rome car chase gets misunderstood on this forum.
    It's brilliant, a masterpiece of cinematography, score, lighting, editing, humour and a ending that couldn't have been done better in the heyday of Brosnan or Moore.

    People complaining it doesn't scream "danger" don't get the purpose of it.

    Exactly. It's purpose is aesthetic, even artistic, more than it is a heart-palpitating engine of fear.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I love every minute of that Spectre car chase.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited March 2016 Posts: 5,080
    Why couldn't it have been both? Aesthetically pleasing and electrifying?
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