Is DAF the most flawed and most entertaining Bond film?

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  • DAF was probably one of, if not the first Bond film I ever saw parts of when they played it on one of the alphabet networks i.e ABC, CBS, NBC, etc, in the late '80s/early '90s and that was when I must have been about three years old or so and it's actually one of my earliest memories. I remember the PTS with Blofeld being fed into the boiling mud which at the time I thought was lava lol. I only remember up to the crematorium sequence of my first viewing.

    That scene really stood out and still does as one of the most tenses "snake pit"/deathtrap scenes in the entire franchise. When I would finally get a chance to watch DAF again on TBS when they were doing their "James Bond Wednesdays" in the early '90s, I remember running away from the TV whenever the film approached the crematorium scene because it scared me as a child and I had my grandmother, who would record the Bond films for me on VHS, actually stop the recording and resume only after the sequence had passed. It wasn't until we bought the VHS tape that I finally forced myself to watch it and actually found that I really enjoyed the sequence.

    It really is one of those scenes that Bond really had no escape. He would have been ashes if not for Shady Tree. It also makes Wint and Kidd in my opinion in spite of their campy nature, among the scariest and most evil henchmen from the franchise. Leaving Bond to burn alive trapped in a coffin has to be one of the worst ways for someone to die. It's just plain evil. The only other snake pit scene that had me on the edge of my seat was the cocaine grinder in LTK.

    For me DAF is a memorable Bond film. It has it moments, and yes while it's kinda lighthearted(a glowing tribute haha) it does have a very dark sequence in it, and also we get the great fight scene with Franks in the elevator, which is my favorite Connery brawl after Grant on the train in FRWL. And yes I'll echo what others have said that Barry's score here is top notch.

    That's one of DAF's flaws I think. What's the point of putting Bond in something inescapable if it's a complete deux ex machina that gets him out??? Far worse than the much maligned use of gadgets. All the tension in that scene was resolved so unsatisfactorily.


    It's also pure Fleming. In Casino Royale the novel he was pretty much dead until the soviet assassin came to execute Le Chiffre and it was only by luck that the killer had no orders to kill Bond also. The same thing also happens in LALD the novel with the limpet mine being perfectly timed to go off before Bond and Solitaire are raked over the reefs. They are probably some more instances that I'm forgetting but the whole Bond being saved by a "deux ex machina" is pretty much a part of the character. Bond isn't a superhuman. Sometimes it all comes down to having them lucky stars.

    Yes I agree. But it's all in execution. It was executed brilliantly in CR. Not so in DAF. In DAF it really just felt like a cheat.
  • DAF was probably one of, if not the first Bond film I ever saw parts of when they played it on one of the alphabet networks i.e ABC, CBS, NBC, etc, in the late '80s/early '90s and that was when I must have been about three years old or so and it's actually one of my earliest memories. I remember the PTS with Blofeld being fed into the boiling mud which at the time I thought was lava lol. I only remember up to the crematorium sequence of my first viewing.

    That scene really stood out and still does as one of the most tenses "snake pit"/deathtrap scenes in the entire franchise. When I would finally get a chance to watch DAF again on TBS when they were doing their "James Bond Wednesdays" in the early '90s, I remember running away from the TV whenever the film approached the crematorium scene because it scared me as a child and I had my grandmother, who would record the Bond films for me on VHS, actually stop the recording and resume only after the sequence had passed. It wasn't until we bought the VHS tape that I finally forced myself to watch it and actually found that I really enjoyed the sequence.

    It really is one of those scenes that Bond really had no escape. He would have been ashes if not for Shady Tree. It also makes Wint and Kidd in my opinion in spite of their campy nature, among the scariest and most evil henchmen from the franchise. Leaving Bond to burn alive trapped in a coffin has to be one of the worst ways for someone to die. It's just plain evil. The only other snake pit scene that had me on the edge of my seat was the cocaine grinder in LTK.

    For me DAF is a memorable Bond film. It has it moments, and yes while it's kinda lighthearted(a glowing tribute haha) it does have a very dark sequence in it, and also we get the great fight scene with Franks in the elevator, which is my favorite Connery brawl after Grant on the train in FRWL. And yes I'll echo what others have said that Barry's score here is top notch.

    That's one of DAF's flaws I think. What's the point of putting Bond in something inescapable if it's a complete deux ex machina that gets him out??? Far worse than the much maligned use of gadgets. All the tension in that scene was resolved so unsatisfactorily.


    It's also pure Fleming. In Casino Royale the novel he was pretty much dead until the soviet assassin came to execute Le Chiffre and it was only by luck that the killer had no orders to kill Bond also. The same thing also happens in LALD the novel with the limpet mine being perfectly timed to go off before Bond and Solitaire are raked over the reefs. They are probably some more instances that I'm forgetting but the whole Bond being saved by a "deux ex machina" is pretty much a part of the character. Bond isn't a superhuman. Sometimes it all comes down to having them lucky stars.

    Yes I agree. But it's all in execution. It was executed brilliantly in CR. Not so in DAF. In DAF it really just felt like a cheat.

    It really was the only way Bond could have escaped, and I think the filmmakers even subtly reference and acknowledge the whole deux ex machina troupe with Bond referring to Shady Tree as St. Peter i.e saved by help from the heavens. The whole execution of the sequence works for me because of the whole build up with the music score and the shots of the coffin entering the cremation chamber, the hiss and roar of the rising flames. It's also the sense of urgency in the scene that makes it exciting, Bond wouldn't have lasted another 30 seconds in the oven. A real crematorium reaches temperatures in excess of 1600 degrees rather quickly and would have burned up all his oxygen rather fast. He was basically toast. It's all very tense and terrifying at least for me and that's what makes it so memorable.

    Another blatant deux ex machina is the cocaine grinder in LTK and again when Pam arrives we even get a slight ethereal moment when Dario says "You're dead" thinking he had already shot her but it could also be read as Bond is saved by Pam who appears almost angelic in her white robes, help sent from the heavens, again a blatant reference to the whole devine intervention and luck from above. If Pam didn't show up when she did Dario could have easily sent Bond into the blades with a couple of kicks to the face. You could easily say the Bond films feature some classic textbook examples of the deux ex machina plot device. That could be a whole thread in and of itself.


  • DAF was probably one of, if not the first Bond film I ever saw parts of when they played it on one of the alphabet networks i.e ABC, CBS, NBC, etc, in the late '80s/early '90s and that was when I must have been about three years old or so and it's actually one of my earliest memories. I remember the PTS with Blofeld being fed into the boiling mud which at the time I thought was lava lol. I only remember up to the crematorium sequence of my first viewing.

    That scene really stood out and still does as one of the most tenses "snake pit"/deathtrap scenes in the entire franchise. When I would finally get a chance to watch DAF again on TBS when they were doing their "James Bond Wednesdays" in the early '90s, I remember running away from the TV whenever the film approached the crematorium scene because it scared me as a child and I had my grandmother, who would record the Bond films for me on VHS, actually stop the recording and resume only after the sequence had passed. It wasn't until we bought the VHS tape that I finally forced myself to watch it and actually found that I really enjoyed the sequence.

    It really is one of those scenes that Bond really had no escape. He would have been ashes if not for Shady Tree. It also makes Wint and Kidd in my opinion in spite of their campy nature, among the scariest and most evil henchmen from the franchise. Leaving Bond to burn alive trapped in a coffin has to be one of the worst ways for someone to die. It's just plain evil. The only other snake pit scene that had me on the edge of my seat was the cocaine grinder in LTK.

    For me DAF is a memorable Bond film. It has it moments, and yes while it's kinda lighthearted(a glowing tribute haha) it does have a very dark sequence in it, and also we get the great fight scene with Franks in the elevator, which is my favorite Connery brawl after Grant on the train in FRWL. And yes I'll echo what others have said that Barry's score here is top notch.

    That's one of DAF's flaws I think. What's the point of putting Bond in something inescapable if it's a complete deux ex machina that gets him out??? Far worse than the much maligned use of gadgets. All the tension in that scene was resolved so unsatisfactorily.


    It's also pure Fleming. In Casino Royale the novel he was pretty much dead until the soviet assassin came to execute Le Chiffre and it was only by luck that the killer had no orders to kill Bond also. The same thing also happens in LALD the novel with the limpet mine being perfectly timed to go off before Bond and Solitaire are raked over the reefs. They are probably some more instances that I'm forgetting but the whole Bond being saved by a "deux ex machina" is pretty much a part of the character. Bond isn't a superhuman. Sometimes it all comes down to having them lucky stars.

    Yes I agree. But it's all in execution. It was executed brilliantly in CR. Not so in DAF. In DAF it really just felt like a cheat.

    It really was the only way Bond could have escaped, and I think the filmmakers even subtly reference and acknowledge the whole deux ex machina troupe with Bond referring to Shady Tree as St. Peter i.e saved by help from the heavens. The whole execution of the sequence works for me because of the whole build up with the music score and the shots of the coffin entering the cremation chamber, the hiss and roar of the rising flames. It's also the sense of urgency in the scene that makes it exciting, Bond wouldn't have lasted another 30 seconds in the oven. A real crematorium reaches temperatures in excess of 1600 degrees rather quickly and would have burned up all his oxygen rather fast. He was basically toast. It's all very tense and terrifying at least for me and that's what makes it so memorable.

    Another blatant deux ex machina is the cocaine grinder in LTK and again when Pam arrives we even get a slight ethereal moment when Dario says "You're dead" thinking he had already shot her but it could also be read as Bond is saved by Pam who appears almost angelic in her white robes, help sent from the heavens, again a blatant reference to the whole devine intervention and luck from above. If Pam didn't show up when she did Dario could have easily sent Bond into the blades with a couple of kicks to the face. You could easily say the Bond films feature some classic textbook examples of the deux ex machina plot device. That could be a whole thread in and of itself.


    You are right about the urgency in the scene. But I think that in the example you bring up, whilst Pam does save Bond, there is still agency on Bond's part since he's the one pulling Dario into the grinder. In the crematorium he just waits to die.

    Furthermore the scene just stands on its own better. You can get a sense of thrill and unsettled pleasure from it despite Pam coming to save the day. I just sighed after Bond got out of the coffin but I suppose that it must be someone else's cup of tea.
  • DAF was probably one of, if not the first Bond film I ever saw parts of when they played it on one of the alphabet networks i.e ABC, CBS, NBC, etc, in the late '80s/early '90s and that was when I must have been about three years old or so and it's actually one of my earliest memories. I remember the PTS with Blofeld being fed into the boiling mud which at the time I thought was lava lol. I only remember up to the crematorium sequence of my first viewing.

    That scene really stood out and still does as one of the most tenses "snake pit"/deathtrap scenes in the entire franchise. When I would finally get a chance to watch DAF again on TBS when they were doing their "James Bond Wednesdays" in the early '90s, I remember running away from the TV whenever the film approached the crematorium scene because it scared me as a child and I had my grandmother, who would record the Bond films for me on VHS, actually stop the recording and resume only after the sequence had passed. It wasn't until we bought the VHS tape that I finally forced myself to watch it and actually found that I really enjoyed the sequence.

    It really is one of those scenes that Bond really had no escape. He would have been ashes if not for Shady Tree. It also makes Wint and Kidd in my opinion in spite of their campy nature, among the scariest and most evil henchmen from the franchise. Leaving Bond to burn alive trapped in a coffin has to be one of the worst ways for someone to die. It's just plain evil. The only other snake pit scene that had me on the edge of my seat was the cocaine grinder in LTK.

    For me DAF is a memorable Bond film. It has it moments, and yes while it's kinda lighthearted(a glowing tribute haha) it does have a very dark sequence in it, and also we get the great fight scene with Franks in the elevator, which is my favorite Connery brawl after Grant on the train in FRWL. And yes I'll echo what others have said that Barry's score here is top notch.

    That's one of DAF's flaws I think. What's the point of putting Bond in something inescapable if it's a complete deux ex machina that gets him out??? Far worse than the much maligned use of gadgets. All the tension in that scene was resolved so unsatisfactorily.


    It's also pure Fleming. In Casino Royale the novel he was pretty much dead until the soviet assassin came to execute Le Chiffre and it was only by luck that the killer had no orders to kill Bond also. The same thing also happens in LALD the novel with the limpet mine being perfectly timed to go off before Bond and Solitaire are raked over the reefs. They are probably some more instances that I'm forgetting but the whole Bond being saved by a "deux ex machina" is pretty much a part of the character. Bond isn't a superhuman. Sometimes it all comes down to having them lucky stars.

    Yes I agree. But it's all in execution. It was executed brilliantly in CR. Not so in DAF. In DAF it really just felt like a cheat.

    It really was the only way Bond could have escaped, and I think the filmmakers even subtly reference and acknowledge the whole deux ex machina troupe with Bond referring to Shady Tree as St. Peter i.e saved by help from the heavens. The whole execution of the sequence works for me because of the whole build up with the music score and the shots of the coffin entering the cremation chamber, the hiss and roar of the rising flames. It's also the sense of urgency in the scene that makes it exciting, Bond wouldn't have lasted another 30 seconds in the oven. A real crematorium reaches temperatures in excess of 1600 degrees rather quickly and would have burned up all his oxygen rather fast. He was basically toast. It's all very tense and terrifying at least for me and that's what makes it so memorable.

    Another blatant deux ex machina is the cocaine grinder in LTK and again when Pam arrives we even get a slight ethereal moment when Dario says "You're dead" thinking he had already shot her but it could also be read as Bond is saved by Pam who appears almost angelic in her white robes, help sent from the heavens, again a blatant reference to the whole devine intervention and luck from above. If Pam didn't show up when she did Dario could have easily sent Bond into the blades with a couple of kicks to the face. You could easily say the Bond films feature some classic textbook examples of the deux ex machina plot device. That could be a whole thread in and of itself.


    You are right about the urgency in the scene. But I think that in the example you bring up, whilst Pam does save Bond, there is still agency on Bond's part since he's the one pulling Dario into the grinder. In the crematorium he just waits to die.

    Furthermore the scene just stands on its own better. You can get a sense of thrill and unsettled pleasure from it despite Pam coming to save the day. I just sighed after Bond got out of the coffin but I suppose that it must be someone else's cup of tea.

    Which is what makes the scene so tense and almost hopeless from Bond's perspective which for me makes the scene all the more terrifying. I too sighed when Bond exits the coffin but for me it was a sigh of relief. For me the crematorium death trap is still the most terrifying of all the death traps/snake pits scenes in the franchise and a lot of that has to do with Barry's ominous and scary score for the scene and also the method of execution, being cremated alive is just so horrible a fate.

    I wonder if they got the crematorium idea from the tales of the soviets filming executions of traitors, allegedly including Oleg Penkovsky, being fed alive and screaming into crematoriums to ensure loyalty to the organization. I know Gardner's novel No Deals, Mr. Bond has a brief reference to the GRU cremating agents alive who had betrayed the organization. Supposedly the KGB used to shows this "film" to all recurits. I think even the Tom Clancy novels also reference the cremated alive story. A kinda creepy real world angle to the whole idea now.

    Also the whole diamond smuggling angle works with the crematory angle because supposedly diamond smugglers have indeed smuggled diamonds in bodies and recovered them after cremation. For me the whole sequence works in the context of the film. The question from me would be was Morton Slumber in on it with Wint and Kidd, providing the coffin for Bond to be cremated in? If not it makes Bond's escape even more miraculous that they where able to figure out that he was in crematorium and they decided to pull him out when they did. Also had the diamonds not been phony then they wouldn't bothered at all. For me the crematorium is and will always be my favorite and most terrifying deathtrap in the franchise but like you said it's someone else's cup of tea.
  • Posts: 4,044
    I think that Guy Hamilton wanted to evoke the scenes from the 1930s serials with their cliffhanger endings. I think that the crematorium scene does capture this and still recall Fleming. Plus it does have logic. They were finished with Bond/Franks and so wanted to kill him, but then find Bond still has the real diamonds so need to keep him alive. So it is not really a cheat at all.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    vzok wrote: »
    I think that Guy Hamilton wanted to evoke the scenes from the 1930s serials with their cliffhanger endings. I think that the crematorium scene does capture this and still recall Fleming. Plus it does have logic. They were finished with Bond/Franks and so wanted to kill him, but then find Bond still has the real diamonds so need to keep him alive. So it is not really a cheat at all.

    Yes, he got out of the situation using his own foresight.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Slumber is in on it, no doubt about it.
  • Posts: 3,333
    I disagree that it's the "most flawed" Bond caper, especially when we've had the likes of TMWTGG, MR, FYEO, OP, AVTAK, to some degree LTK, and the whole Brosnan era that followed ending in the worst entry of the whole series - DAD. To a certain degree people are right about the way Connery escapes the burning coffin, but you forget that this made one hell of a movie clip back in 71. Imagine if you can, seeing this excerpt on a TV show without knowing the final outcome; it was a great cliffhanger must-see attraction talking-point upon the movie's original release. OK, so for once I'm in agreement that a Q-style gadget might have been the better outcome, but that doesn't diminish the tension on first viewing. Is the movie a classic in the same way as FRWL, GF, TB or OHMSS are? No, but then neither are a lot of the Bond movies.

    I also find the picking holes in past movies because today's special effects have improved baseless. Why not pick holes in the orginal Star Wars movie before Lucas improved the flaws with his CGI updates? And if you're the kind of person that does do this then you have no understanding of the epoch of time and the history of moviemaking, and maybe it's you that needs a lesson? At least DAF's effects looked good at the time of release, unlike DAD's which were lambasted from all quarters.
  • Posts: 2,483
    DAF was probably one of, if not the first Bond film I ever saw parts of when they played it on one of the alphabet networks i.e ABC, CBS, NBC, etc, in the late '80s/early '90s and that was when I must have been about three years old or so and it's actually one of my earliest memories. I remember the PTS with Blofeld being fed into the boiling mud which at the time I thought was lava lol. I only remember up to the crematorium sequence of my first viewing.

    That scene really stood out and still does as one of the most tenses "snake pit"/deathtrap scenes in the entire franchise. When I would finally get a chance to watch DAF again on TBS when they were doing their "James Bond Wednesdays" in the early '90s, I remember running away from the TV whenever the film approached the crematorium scene because it scared me as a child and I had my grandmother, who would record the Bond films for me on VHS, actually stop the recording and resume only after the sequence had passed. It wasn't until we bought the VHS tape that I finally forced myself to watch it and actually found that I really enjoyed the sequence.

    It really is one of those scenes that Bond really had no escape. He would have been ashes if not for Shady Tree. It also makes Wint and Kidd in my opinion in spite of their campy nature, among the scariest and most evil henchmen from the franchise. Leaving Bond to burn alive trapped in a coffin has to be one of the worst ways for someone to die. It's just plain evil. The only other snake pit scene that had me on the edge of my seat was the cocaine grinder in LTK.

    For me DAF is a memorable Bond film. It has it moments, and yes while it's kinda lighthearted(a glowing tribute haha) it does have a very dark sequence in it, and also we get the great fight scene with Franks in the elevator, which is my favorite Connery brawl after Grant on the train in FRWL. And yes I'll echo what others have said that Barry's score here is top notch.

    That's one of DAF's flaws I think. What's the point of putting Bond in something inescapable if it's a complete deux ex machina that gets him out??? Far worse than the much maligned use of gadgets. All the tension in that scene was resolved so unsatisfactorily.


    It's also pure Fleming. In Casino Royale the novel he was pretty much dead until the soviet assassin came to execute Le Chiffre and it was only by luck that the killer had no orders to kill Bond also. The same thing also happens in LALD the novel with the limpet mine being perfectly timed to go off before Bond and Solitaire are raked over the reefs. They are probably some more instances that I'm forgetting but the whole Bond being saved by a "deux ex machina" is pretty much a part of the character. Bond isn't a superhuman. Sometimes it all comes down to having them lucky stars.

    Yes I agree. But it's all in execution. It was executed brilliantly in CR. Not so in DAF. In DAF it really just felt like a cheat.

    It really was the only way Bond could have escaped, and I think the filmmakers even subtly reference and acknowledge the whole deux ex machina troupe with Bond referring to Shady Tree as St. Peter i.e saved by help from the heavens. The whole execution of the sequence works for me because of the whole build up with the music score and the shots of the coffin entering the cremation chamber, the hiss and roar of the rising flames. It's also the sense of urgency in the scene that makes it exciting, Bond wouldn't have lasted another 30 seconds in the oven. A real crematorium reaches temperatures in excess of 1600 degrees rather quickly and would have burned up all his oxygen rather fast. He was basically toast. It's all very tense and terrifying at least for me and that's what makes it so memorable.

    Another blatant deux ex machina is the cocaine grinder in LTK and again when Pam arrives we even get a slight ethereal moment when Dario says "You're dead" thinking he had already shot her but it could also be read as Bond is saved by Pam who appears almost angelic in her white robes, help sent from the heavens, again a blatant reference to the whole devine intervention and luck from above. If Pam didn't show up when she did Dario could have easily sent Bond into the blades with a couple of kicks to the face. You could easily say the Bond films feature some classic textbook examples of the deux ex machina plot device. That could be a whole thread in and of itself.


    You are right about the urgency in the scene. But I think that in the example you bring up, whilst Pam does save Bond, there is still agency on Bond's part since he's the one pulling Dario into the grinder. In the crematorium he just waits to die.

    Furthermore the scene just stands on its own better. You can get a sense of thrill and unsettled pleasure from it despite Pam coming to save the day. I just sighed after Bond got out of the coffin but I suppose that it must be someone else's cup of tea.

    But he doesn't just "wait to die." He struggles frantically to find some way out of the coffin. Fat lot of good it would have done him.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Connery refuses to be put in a box, or pigeonholed in any way, "I'm a
    Multifaceted actor !" ;)
  • Posts: 4,622
    I think I've seen DAF 50-100 times.
    No idea really. I watch it regularly. It's camp and dark. Perfect balance. Colourful, spooky in parts.
    The transition from pts to the eerie opening bits of the title song is my favourite part. Cat screech.
    Connery is at his relaxed understated best. He's not better than his previous masterworks, just more mature. He's a Bond whose seen it all, who is nearing proper mandatory retirement age of 45.
    I love the Bond Ernst banter. Ernst revels in their shared history. Bond plays along but all he wants to do is put the madman down once and for all.
    This is not the best Bond film,although it kind of is IMO, as there is no film in the whole world that I enjoy more.
    Barry's score can't be overstated. It does a real job of ratcheting up the suspense, and creating exciting mood.
    Connery delivers some of his best lines in the series.
    The first meeting with Tiffany is both Bond and Barry at their smoothest. The mood music here is perfect. Connery is droll as only he can be, yet maintains an ever present air of menace.
    Actually I could rave about every scene in this film, it's that good.
    Great commentary above btw regarding the crematorium scene.
    Harry Saltz had a thing with playing with Bond being dead, in the early run of films
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    DAF is one of the only Bond films in which I can always be in the mood for. I don't know how or why. Its just something about it in which I can never tire from it.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DAF is one of the only Bond films in which I can always be in the mood for. I don't know how or why. Its just something about it in which I can never tire from it.
    Is it that scene in the pipeline that does it?
  • KaijuDirectorOO7KaijuDirectorOO7 Once Upon a Time Somewhere...
    edited June 2016 Posts: 189
    DAF is hands-down my favorite Bond of all. I don't really know how to explain, but the score (especially the first half of the track "Airport Source/On The Road"), and the fact that Connery's facing against SPECTRE one last time (at least in THIS continuity) give it a feeling of, "Oh, it PERSONAL this time." Plus I found Charles Gray's Blofeld to be quite entertaining, and I do like the diamond-powered superlaser idea.

    Of course, there are some things I can't stand. Tiffany's character (I wish they'd made her a lot more competent towards the end, and part of me wishes they cast Faye Dunaway instead), Lana Wood's acting makes me cringe, and I really would have liked to see the planned ending they had. NOT the one where they chase Blofeld across Lake Meade with Marko Ramius declaring "Las Vegas expects every man to do his duty" (that's a job for Moore), the one where 007 fights in the mine after Blofeld escapes.

    To end, yes, DAF is a flawed film, but as I'm concerned, it's the King of the Bond Hill for me.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Sadly Tiffany in the film is a complete bimbo compared to the
    Femme fatale, lady of the book.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    No problem we all have different views, I'd just have been happier with a
    character closer to Fleming's creation, but bimbos are good too, whatever
    floats your boat.
  • Posts: 2,483
    Plenty is a complete riot. The perfect characterization of the brassy, goldbricking Vegas bimbo. And she may well have the funniest line in all of Bond: "You handle those cubes like a monkey handles coconuts!" Slays me every time.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Plenty is a complete riot. The perfect characterization of the brassy, goldbricking Vegas bimbo. And she may well have the funniest line in all of Bond: "You handle those cubes like a monkey handles coconuts!" Slays me every time.

    That is a good line.
  • DAF was probably one of, if not the first Bond film I ever saw parts of when they played it on one of the alphabet networks i.e ABC, CBS, NBC, etc, in the late '80s/early '90s and that was when I must have been about three years old or so and it's actually one of my earliest memories. I remember the PTS with Blofeld being fed into the boiling mud which at the time I thought was lava lol. I only remember up to the crematorium sequence of my first viewing.

    That scene really stood out and still does as one of the most tenses "snake pit"/deathtrap scenes in the entire franchise. When I would finally get a chance to watch DAF again on TBS when they were doing their "James Bond Wednesdays" in the early '90s, I remember running away from the TV whenever the film approached the crematorium scene because it scared me as a child and I had my grandmother, who would record the Bond films for me on VHS, actually stop the recording and resume only after the sequence had passed. It wasn't until we bought the VHS tape that I finally forced myself to watch it and actually found that I really enjoyed the sequence.

    It really is one of those scenes that Bond really had no escape. He would have been ashes if not for Shady Tree. It also makes Wint and Kidd in my opinion in spite of their campy nature, among the scariest and most evil henchmen from the franchise. Leaving Bond to burn alive trapped in a coffin has to be one of the worst ways for someone to die. It's just plain evil. The only other snake pit scene that had me on the edge of my seat was the cocaine grinder in LTK.

    For me DAF is a memorable Bond film. It has it moments, and yes while it's kinda lighthearted(a glowing tribute haha) it does have a very dark sequence in it, and also we get the great fight scene with Franks in the elevator, which is my favorite Connery brawl after Grant on the train in FRWL. And yes I'll echo what others have said that Barry's score here is top notch.

    That's one of DAF's flaws I think. What's the point of putting Bond in something inescapable if it's a complete deux ex machina that gets him out??? Far worse than the much maligned use of gadgets. All the tension in that scene was resolved so unsatisfactorily.


    It's also pure Fleming. In Casino Royale the novel he was pretty much dead until the soviet assassin came to execute Le Chiffre and it was only by luck that the killer had no orders to kill Bond also. The same thing also happens in LALD the novel with the limpet mine being perfectly timed to go off before Bond and Solitaire are raked over the reefs. They are probably some more instances that I'm forgetting but the whole Bond being saved by a "deux ex machina" is pretty much a part of the character. Bond isn't a superhuman. Sometimes it all comes down to having them lucky stars.

    Yes I agree. But it's all in execution. It was executed brilliantly in CR. Not so in DAF. In DAF it really just felt like a cheat.

    It really was the only way Bond could have escaped, and I think the filmmakers even subtly reference and acknowledge the whole deux ex machina troupe with Bond referring to Shady Tree as St. Peter i.e saved by help from the heavens. The whole execution of the sequence works for me because of the whole build up with the music score and the shots of the coffin entering the cremation chamber, the hiss and roar of the rising flames. It's also the sense of urgency in the scene that makes it exciting, Bond wouldn't have lasted another 30 seconds in the oven. A real crematorium reaches temperatures in excess of 1600 degrees rather quickly and would have burned up all his oxygen rather fast. He was basically toast. It's all very tense and terrifying at least for me and that's what makes it so memorable.

    Another blatant deux ex machina is the cocaine grinder in LTK and again when Pam arrives we even get a slight ethereal moment when Dario says "You're dead" thinking he had already shot her but it could also be read as Bond is saved by Pam who appears almost angelic in her white robes, help sent from the heavens, again a blatant reference to the whole devine intervention and luck from above. If Pam didn't show up when she did Dario could have easily sent Bond into the blades with a couple of kicks to the face. You could easily say the Bond films feature some classic textbook examples of the deux ex machina plot device. That could be a whole thread in and of itself.


    You are right about the urgency in the scene. But I think that in the example you bring up, whilst Pam does save Bond, there is still agency on Bond's part since he's the one pulling Dario into the grinder. In the crematorium he just waits to die.

    Furthermore the scene just stands on its own better. You can get a sense of thrill and unsettled pleasure from it despite Pam coming to save the day. I just sighed after Bond got out of the coffin but I suppose that it must be someone else's cup of tea.

    But he doesn't just "wait to die." He struggles frantically to find some way out of the coffin. Fat lot of good it would have done him.

    Technically speaking you are right but nothing he does has agency. Shady Tree of all people wholly saves the day. In nearly all the other examples Bond has some sort of part to play in saving his skin. That's why it doesn't cut it for me. It's just a complete letdown. I see why some people can get a kick out of it but in terms of what he accomplishes he may as well done nothing and the same thing would have happened.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    edited June 2016 Posts: 4,589
    I watched some of it again last night. One thing had struck me. I feel that one of the reasons that Connery came back (outside of the large sum of money he got, as well as controlling when he did his scenes and having two more outside films of his choice) was the fact that he really didn't have to do much. He played the role of Bond, without actually having to be Bond. I can imagine Harry and Cubby meeting with him and saying. "We want you back, we'll pay you a boatload of money and all you have to do is strut around Las Vegas for two hours, while impersonating a diamond smuggler. You can sleep with any Bond girl you want off-set and hey...you don't even have to fire a gun, except for one scene where you shoot Fake Blofeld with a piton gun."
  • Posts: 2,483
    DAF was probably one of, if not the first Bond film I ever saw parts of when they played it on one of the alphabet networks i.e ABC, CBS, NBC, etc, in the late '80s/early '90s and that was when I must have been about three years old or so and it's actually one of my earliest memories. I remember the PTS with Blofeld being fed into the boiling mud which at the time I thought was lava lol. I only remember up to the crematorium sequence of my first viewing.

    That scene really stood out and still does as one of the most tenses "snake pit"/deathtrap scenes in the entire franchise. When I would finally get a chance to watch DAF again on TBS when they were doing their "James Bond Wednesdays" in the early '90s, I remember running away from the TV whenever the film approached the crematorium scene because it scared me as a child and I had my grandmother, who would record the Bond films for me on VHS, actually stop the recording and resume only after the sequence had passed. It wasn't until we bought the VHS tape that I finally forced myself to watch it and actually found that I really enjoyed the sequence.

    It really is one of those scenes that Bond really had no escape. He would have been ashes if not for Shady Tree. It also makes Wint and Kidd in my opinion in spite of their campy nature, among the scariest and most evil henchmen from the franchise. Leaving Bond to burn alive trapped in a coffin has to be one of the worst ways for someone to die. It's just plain evil. The only other snake pit scene that had me on the edge of my seat was the cocaine grinder in LTK.

    For me DAF is a memorable Bond film. It has it moments, and yes while it's kinda lighthearted(a glowing tribute haha) it does have a very dark sequence in it, and also we get the great fight scene with Franks in the elevator, which is my favorite Connery brawl after Grant on the train in FRWL. And yes I'll echo what others have said that Barry's score here is top notch.

    That's one of DAF's flaws I think. What's the point of putting Bond in something inescapable if it's a complete deux ex machina that gets him out??? Far worse than the much maligned use of gadgets. All the tension in that scene was resolved so unsatisfactorily.


    It's also pure Fleming. In Casino Royale the novel he was pretty much dead until the soviet assassin came to execute Le Chiffre and it was only by luck that the killer had no orders to kill Bond also. The same thing also happens in LALD the novel with the limpet mine being perfectly timed to go off before Bond and Solitaire are raked over the reefs. They are probably some more instances that I'm forgetting but the whole Bond being saved by a "deux ex machina" is pretty much a part of the character. Bond isn't a superhuman. Sometimes it all comes down to having them lucky stars.

    Yes I agree. But it's all in execution. It was executed brilliantly in CR. Not so in DAF. In DAF it really just felt like a cheat.

    It really was the only way Bond could have escaped, and I think the filmmakers even subtly reference and acknowledge the whole deux ex machina troupe with Bond referring to Shady Tree as St. Peter i.e saved by help from the heavens. The whole execution of the sequence works for me because of the whole build up with the music score and the shots of the coffin entering the cremation chamber, the hiss and roar of the rising flames. It's also the sense of urgency in the scene that makes it exciting, Bond wouldn't have lasted another 30 seconds in the oven. A real crematorium reaches temperatures in excess of 1600 degrees rather quickly and would have burned up all his oxygen rather fast. He was basically toast. It's all very tense and terrifying at least for me and that's what makes it so memorable.

    Another blatant deux ex machina is the cocaine grinder in LTK and again when Pam arrives we even get a slight ethereal moment when Dario says "You're dead" thinking he had already shot her but it could also be read as Bond is saved by Pam who appears almost angelic in her white robes, help sent from the heavens, again a blatant reference to the whole devine intervention and luck from above. If Pam didn't show up when she did Dario could have easily sent Bond into the blades with a couple of kicks to the face. You could easily say the Bond films feature some classic textbook examples of the deux ex machina plot device. That could be a whole thread in and of itself.


    You are right about the urgency in the scene. But I think that in the example you bring up, whilst Pam does save Bond, there is still agency on Bond's part since he's the one pulling Dario into the grinder. In the crematorium he just waits to die.

    Furthermore the scene just stands on its own better. You can get a sense of thrill and unsettled pleasure from it despite Pam coming to save the day. I just sighed after Bond got out of the coffin but I suppose that it must be someone else's cup of tea.

    But he doesn't just "wait to die." He struggles frantically to find some way out of the coffin. Fat lot of good it would have done him.

    Technically speaking you are right but nothing he does has agency. Shady Tree of all people wholly saves the day. In nearly all the other examples Bond has some sort of part to play in saving his skin. That's why it doesn't cut it for me. It's just a complete letdown. I see why some people can get a kick out of it but in terms of what he accomplishes he may as well done nothing and the same thing would have happened.

    This is hardly unique to DAF. The first example that springs to mind is during the gypsy shootout in FRWL where Grant guns down a Bulgarian who is on the verge of killing Bond. No Bond agency at all. Grant saves Bond every bit as clearly as does Shady.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    There is a whole bunch of examples.
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 4,622
    Bond got lucky that Tree and Slumber pulled the. coffin out in the nick of time, but one does often create one's own luck in life by making full effort, planning etc.
    Bond had covered his flank by replacing the real diamonds with fakes.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    One of the very best minor Bond girls, imo!

    210lmhu.jpg
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Mr Osato would have approved he did like a healthy chest. :D
  • Posts: 2,483
    timmer wrote: »
    Bond got lucky that Tree and Slumber pulled the. coffin out in the nick of time, but one does often create one's own luck in life by making full effort, planning etc.
    Bond had covered his flank by replacing the real diamonds with fakes.

    Very good point, timmer. Bond certainly has covered many a flank in his day, some of them his own!

  • edited June 2016 Posts: 4,044
    DAF was probably one of, if not the first Bond film I ever saw parts of when they played it on one of the alphabet networks i.e ABC, CBS, NBC, etc, in the late '80s/early '90s and that was when I must have been about three years old or so and it's actually one of my earliest memories. I remember the PTS with Blofeld being fed into the boiling mud which at the time I thought was lava lol. I only remember up to the crematorium sequence of my first viewing.

    That scene really stood out and still does as one of the most tenses "snake pit"/deathtrap scenes in the entire franchise. When I would finally get a chance to watch DAF again on TBS when they were doing their "James Bond Wednesdays" in the early '90s, I remember running away from the TV whenever the film approached the crematorium scene because it scared me as a child and I had my grandmother, who would record the Bond films for me on VHS, actually stop the recording and resume only after the sequence had passed. It wasn't until we bought the VHS tape that I finally forced myself to watch it and actually found that I really enjoyed the sequence.

    It really is one of those scenes that Bond really had no escape. He would have been ashes if not for Shady Tree. It also makes Wint and Kidd in my opinion in spite of their campy nature, among the scariest and most evil henchmen from the franchise. Leaving Bond to burn alive trapped in a coffin has to be one of the worst ways for someone to die. It's just plain evil. The only other snake pit scene that had me on the edge of my seat was the cocaine grinder in LTK.

    For me DAF is a memorable Bond film. It has it moments, and yes while it's kinda lighthearted(a glowing tribute haha) it does have a very dark sequence in it, and also we get the great fight scene with Franks in the elevator, which is my favorite Connery brawl after Grant on the train in FRWL. And yes I'll echo what others have said that Barry's score here is top notch.

    That's one of DAF's flaws I think. What's the point of putting Bond in something inescapable if it's a complete deux ex machina that gets him out??? Far worse than the much maligned use of gadgets. All the tension in that scene was resolved so unsatisfactorily.


    It's also pure Fleming. In Casino Royale the novel he was pretty much dead until the soviet assassin came to execute Le Chiffre and it was only by luck that the killer had no orders to kill Bond also. The same thing also happens in LALD the novel with the limpet mine being perfectly timed to go off before Bond and Solitaire are raked over the reefs. They are probably some more instances that I'm forgetting but the whole Bond being saved by a "deux ex machina" is pretty much a part of the character. Bond isn't a superhuman. Sometimes it all comes down to having them lucky stars.

    Yes I agree. But it's all in execution. It was executed brilliantly in CR. Not so in DAF. In DAF it really just felt like a cheat.

    It really was the only way Bond could have escaped, and I think the filmmakers even subtly reference and acknowledge the whole deux ex machina troupe with Bond referring to Shady Tree as St. Peter i.e saved by help from the heavens. The whole execution of the sequence works for me because of the whole build up with the music score and the shots of the coffin entering the cremation chamber, the hiss and roar of the rising flames. It's also the sense of urgency in the scene that makes it exciting, Bond wouldn't have lasted another 30 seconds in the oven. A real crematorium reaches temperatures in excess of 1600 degrees rather quickly and would have burned up all his oxygen rather fast. He was basically toast. It's all very tense and terrifying at least for me and that's what makes it so memorable.

    Another blatant deux ex machina is the cocaine grinder in LTK and again when Pam arrives we even get a slight ethereal moment when Dario says "You're dead" thinking he had already shot her but it could also be read as Bond is saved by Pam who appears almost angelic in her white robes, help sent from the heavens, again a blatant reference to the whole devine intervention and luck from above. If Pam didn't show up when she did Dario could have easily sent Bond into the blades with a couple of kicks to the face. You could easily say the Bond films feature some classic textbook examples of the deux ex machina plot device. That could be a whole thread in and of itself.


    You are right about the urgency in the scene. But I think that in the example you bring up, whilst Pam does save Bond, there is still agency on Bond's part since he's the one pulling Dario into the grinder. In the crematorium he just waits to die.

    Furthermore the scene just stands on its own better. You can get a sense of thrill and unsettled pleasure from it despite Pam coming to save the day. I just sighed after Bond got out of the coffin but I suppose that it must be someone else's cup of tea.

    But he doesn't just "wait to die." He struggles frantically to find some way out of the coffin. Fat lot of good it would have done him.

    Technically speaking you are right but nothing he does has agency. Shady Tree of all people wholly saves the day. In nearly all the other examples Bond has some sort of part to play in saving his skin. That's why it doesn't cut it for me. It's just a complete letdown. I see why some people can get a kick out of it but in terms of what he accomplishes he may as well done nothing and the same thing would have happened.

    Well he didn't do nothing. He switched the real diamonds for fakes, and that is what saved him. He made himself indispensable.

    Whereas in TWINE, for example, Bond is saved not by his own ingenuity, but by a massive inflatable suit, that then seems to be the size of a small cave.

    I know which "cliffhanger" I prefer.
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 4,622
    @khanners Yes Bond does get lucky sometimes but also does much tactical prep and Mission planning.
    That's made very clear in the books .
    That whole scene at crematorium with Slumber Wint Kidd and Tree is a hoot yet still drips with danger and tension.
    What makes DAF work to much degree is that Sean plays dangerous calm cool foil to the eccentric characters that surround him.

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