The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Trump's fighting a classic asymmetric disrupter battle, but in the political field. The old rules are out the door as far as he's concerned, and the sooner his opposition figure that out (they still appear not to have from the way they are attempting to take him on) the faster they will be able to save their careers.

    Regarding Sanders: His movement is bigger than him and includes a lot of independents. Party unity means nothing to them. His message meant everything....more than him....and I don't think he knows how to control it now because it's bigger than him. Having said that, I applaud him for at least trying.

    On the RNC side the movement is with the nominee. On the DNC side it's the opposite.

    There are so many struggles facing Hillary at the moment. She has been dragged to the left by sanders, and given little opportunity to pivot thus far. She is suffering from death by a thousand leaks, which don't help her favourables. And most of all she has to somehow fight the biggest populist uprising this century. I won't rule Clinton out yet, but in the current climate its hard for any establishment candidate to survive, let alone win. She will have a serious fight on her hands.
    Agreed. It's an anti-establishment year. They should not have fielded Clinton this year and anyone should have been able to see that. She's yesterday's news. Sadly, hubris kicked in. They have so many competent candidates who could have done an excellent job, and some were on the stage yesterday.

    Trump is his worst enemy though, and is more than likely to take the knife out and start jabbing himself at any moment.

    Watch for the media to pile it on between the Convention end and the first debate to get the numbers back on a more favourable footing. Watch the markets as well (we're getting an unlikely summer bump precisely in order to showcase the 'rosey' scenarios for the economy, but I'd strongly advise being out of equities this fall, particularly if Trump is close).
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I love Sanders. I love that he tapped into such ferocious energies! Passion rocks. Complacency darns socks.

    I respect him, but he should have stuck by his supporters instead of abandoning them to tow the party line.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I love Sanders. I love that he tapped into such ferocious energies! Passion rocks. Complacency darns socks.

    I respect him, but he should have stuck by his supporters instead of abandoning them to tow the party line.

    Sanders doesn't technically belong to the Democratic Party. This has been the under-reported aspect of the campaign. Those who say the DNC screwed him are forgetting that they were under no obligation to ever help him.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,264
    Must say the Michelle speach was quite impressive. Far better then anything i've seen up to date.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    TripAces wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I love Sanders. I love that he tapped into such ferocious energies! Passion rocks. Complacency darns socks.

    I respect him, but he should have stuck by his supporters instead of abandoning them to tow the party line.

    Sanders doesn't technically belong to the Democratic Party. This has been the under-reported aspect of the campaign. Those who say the DNC screwed him are forgetting that they were under no obligation to ever help him.

    I know this, its just an expression. After touring the country to get people to support his message, he abondons the supporters and the message and joins forces with the reptilians.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    TripAces wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I love Sanders. I love that he tapped into such ferocious energies! Passion rocks. Complacency darns socks.

    I respect him, but he should have stuck by his supporters instead of abandoning them to tow the party line.

    Sanders doesn't technically belong to the Democratic Party. This has been the under-reported aspect of the campaign. Those who say the DNC screwed him are forgetting that they were under no obligation to ever help him.
    No, but they shouldn't have sabotaged him either.
  • Posts: 11,119
    TripAces wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I love Sanders. I love that he tapped into such ferocious energies! Passion rocks. Complacency darns socks.

    I respect him, but he should have stuck by his supporters instead of abandoning them to tow the party line.

    Sanders doesn't technically belong to the Democratic Party. This has been the under-reported aspect of the campaign. Those who say the DNC screwed him are forgetting that they were under no obligation to ever help him.

    The thing is.......1968 seems to be on repeat. Eating out an establishment party from the inside out is much easier and effective in American politics. Just look at the Tea Party...and Donald Trump. The Sanders-supporters know how unfair the Electoral College would be for Bernie Sanders if he would have founded a 'Socialist Democratic Party' or if he would be on a ticket for the Green Party. Because then he wouldn't stand a chance. The USA has a strict 2-party system, and not, like The Netherlands, a multi-party system.

    So Sanders thought he could do a similar upset like Donald Trump did. But people forget that ultra-right-wing revolt within the Republican Party has been going on since 2010, whereas ultra-left-wing-ers and progressives within the Democratic Party have only been organizing themselves since Bernie Sanders started his campaign. Hence why populist Trump simply had a better chance to 'eat the establishment party from the inside out' than Bernie Sanders.

  • Posts: 11,119
    Must say the Michelle speach was quite impressive. Far better then anything i've seen up to date.

    Absolutely. Hence I posted it.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Mrs Trump will be using it tomorrow ! :D
  • Posts: 11,119
    Mrs Trump will be using it tomorrow ! :D

    Just for people who are interested: I am watching the roll call vote right now :-):
    http://www.zahitvstation.com/watch-cnn-usa-live
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Mrs Trump will be using it tomorrow ! :D

    Just for people who are interested: I am watching the roll call vote right now :-):
    http://www.zahitvstation.com/watch-cnn-usa-live

    Depressing.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 4,619
    I love the disdain for the man Stephen exudes.
    Colbert is a spineless fool and a hypocrite. He will NEVER attack Hillary like he attacks Trump, and don't tell me he wouldn't have enough material:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI
    that ultra-right-wing revolt within the Republican Party has been going on since 2010, whereas ultra-left-wing-ers and progressives within the Democratic Party have only been organizing themselves since Bernie Sanders started his campaign. Hence why populist Trump simply had a better chance to 'eat the establishment party from the inside out' than Bernie Sanders.

    Oh, no! Not this nonsense again... Trump is obviously left of the meanstream Republicans. Not only that, he is also more left-wing than the Democratic nominee when it comes to many significant issues (like trade). Before the primatries started, EVERYBODY thought that Trump would easily lose the evangelican vote to Cruz and others in the race, exactly because how left he is of most Republicans.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    I love the disdain for the man Stephen exudes.
    Colbert is a spineless fool and a hypocrite. He will NEVER attack Hillary like he attacks Trump, and don't tell me he wouldn't have enough material:


    Yeah, I'm all for people like Colbert, but they should to at least be honest with their audience.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Mrs Trump will be using it tomorrow ! :D

    Just for people who are interested: I am watching the roll call vote right now :-):
    http://www.zahitvstation.com/watch-cnn-usa-live

    Sanders ANNIHILATED Clinton is West-Virginia, yet she still got more delegates in the state thanks to those superdelegates. Sickening. I can't watch this...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    It's a troubling situation no doubt. Highly undemocratic imho.

    That Trump video is hilarious. The Donald in full swing is a late night comedian's gold.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    Mrs Trump will be using it tomorrow ! :D

    Just for people who are interested: I am watching the roll call vote right now :-):
    http://www.zahitvstation.com/watch-cnn-usa-live

    Sanders ANNIHILATED Clinton is West-Virginia, yet she still got more delegates in the state thanks to those superdelegates. Sickening. I can't watch this...

    And people wonder why Trump needs to use more extreme rhetoric...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Okay, the vote is in. Bernie is more politically savvy than I could ever be, so as per his wishes, I am bound to vote for Hillary. I will make it so. Here's hoping! :)>-
  • America thanks you, @chrisisall.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 725
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Okay, the vote is in. Bernie is more politically savvy than I could ever be, so as per his wishes, I am bound to vote for Hillary. I will make it so. Here's hoping! :)>-

    Props to you @chrisisall. I know you are putting your head above your heart. Bernie conducted himself with great dignity and decency during this convention, and the Clinton forces showed admirable sensitivity in supporting his prominent role at the convention. In watching the vote today, I felt like I was looking at America in all if it's extraordinary diversity. The genius of America, for all of it's problems, is how it integrates it's endlessly diverse populations into the mainstream. There are obviously very big problems, particularly with young black males, but only the Democrats seem to want to try to tackle the issues. Trump could have been a genuine candidate for change, but he has conducted himself badly as a petty bully, and demonstrated a temperament that is chillingly destructive. I would have liked a better candidate than Clinton, but the choice is binary. Not voting, or voting for the 2 independents is a vote for Trump.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    smitty wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Okay, the vote is in. Bernie is more politically savvy than I could ever be, so as per his wishes, I am bound to vote for Hillary. I will make it so. Here's hoping! :)>-

    Props to you @chrisisall. I know you are putting your head above your heart. Bernie conducted himself with great dignity and decency during this convention, and the Clinton forces showed admirable sensitivity in supporting his prominent role at the convention. In watching the vote today, I felt like I was looking at America in all if it's extraordinary diversity. The genius of America, for all of it's problems, is how it integrates it's endlessly diverse populations into the mainstream. There are obviously very big problems, particularly with young black males, but only the Democrats seem to want to try to tackle the issues. Trump could have been a genuine candidate for change, but he has conducted himself badly as a petty bully, and demonstrated a temperament that is chillingly destructive. I would have liked a better candidate than Clinton, but the choice is binary. Not voting, or voting for the 2 independents is a vote for Trump.

    Senator Sanders swallowed a bitter pill with dignity; I could & should do no less. And I bow to his political knowledge. The Bernie-or-busts tried their gambit and it didn't work. I went with it myself for show, but they KNEW Trump was their trump card. Lesser of two, once again. We will keep fighting the good fight AFTER littlerHittler is out of the way.
  • Posts: 1,631
    smitty wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Okay, the vote is in. Bernie is more politically savvy than I could ever be, so as per his wishes, I am bound to vote for Hillary. I will make it so. Here's hoping! :)>-

    Props to you @chrisisall. I know you are putting your head above your heart. Bernie conducted himself with great dignity and decency during this convention, and the Clinton forces showed admirable sensitivity in supporting his prominent role at the convention. In watching the vote today, I felt like I was looking at America in all if it's extraordinary diversity. The genius of America, for all of it's problems, is how it integrates it's endlessly diverse populations into the mainstream. There are obviously very big problems, particularly with young black males, but only the Democrats seem to want to try to tackle the issues. Trump could have been a genuine candidate for change, but he has conducted himself badly as a petty bully, and demonstrated a temperament that is chillingly destructive. I would have liked a better candidate than Clinton, but the choice is binary. Not voting, or voting for the 2 independents is a vote for Trump.

    Not sure that I agree with this.

    I think you're going to find a lot of disgruntled Republicans going for the Johnson/Weld ticket. While it might not seem that way, not all Republicans and/or conservatives are the blood-thirsty mob that just convened in Cleveland. There will be a good number that move over to Gary Johnson, especially if he can rise to 15% in the polls and secure his place in the presidential debates, thus giving his candidacy a legitimacy as the only quasi-conservative alternative to The Donald.

    If that happens, then Trump should start to get nervous. He won't take a massive number of Republican votes, but Johnson stands a chance to take enough to be a thorn in Trump's side.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 725
    Mostly agree. Many Republucans that can't stand Trump also cannot stand Clinton. I'm thinking mostly of the angry Sanders voters re the % that will vote for Johnson and Stein that take votes away from Clinton. I'd guess the Sanders voters that can't stomach Clinton will mostly vote for Stein as a protest vote. If enough do vote for Stein,then it could be a replay of Bush/Gore and just as happened with the Nader vote, they will elect Trump. But then maybe the Rep's that vote for Johnson will balance the protest votes for Stein.
  • Posts: 1,631
    smitty wrote: »
    Mostly agree. Many Republucans that can't stand Trump also cannot stand Clinton. I'm thinking mostly of the angry Sanders voters re the % that will vote for Johnson and Stein that take votes away from Clinton. I'd guess the Sanders voters that can't stomach Clinton will mostly vote for Stein as a protest vote. If enough do vote for Stein,then it could be a replay of Bush/Gore and just as happened with the Nader vote, they will elect Trump. But then maybe the Rep's that vote for Johnson will balance the protest votes for Stein.

    That's true. I was mainly looking at it from the other side. It's usually a case of the insurgent or third party candidates hurting the challenger, which in this case would be Trump (given that most view Clinton as another 4-8 years of Obama), but convention has been pretty much thrown out the window in this cycle.

    It could be a case of which third party candidate absorbs the most amount of disgruntled voters, but I'd tend to think that, in the long run, the progressives will mostly get behind Clinton. She's at least made an attempt (regardless of how much conviction one finds behind it) to bring the party together, whereas Trump just seems content to burn the Republican party to the ground. I think if there were Democratic equivalents of Jeb Bush and Mitt Romney coming out and supporting Jill Stein (which Bush and Romney are rumored to be doing for Johnson), then you might see two third parties really make a difference here. But, given that Johnson is said to be the only third party candidate who will be on the ballot in all 50 states, coupled with Trump's incredible unpopularity, I would guess that Johnson will have more of an effect on the Republicans than Stein on the Democrats. Just a guess, though.
  • I see the Johnson/Libertarian voter as this year's equivalent of the Perot voter from the Bill Clinton/George H.W. Bush tussle. Some folks claim that Perot drew mostly conservative voters, thereby swinging that election away from George Senior and over to Bill. If that's true I certainly hope history can repeat itself for Hillary & The Donald.
  • Posts: 1,631
    I see the Johnson/Libertarian voter as this year's equivalent of the Perot voter from the Bill Clinton/George H.W. Bush tussle. Some folks claim that Perot drew mostly conservative voters, thereby swinging that election away from George Senior and over to Bill. If that's true I certainly hope history can repeat itself for Hillary & The Donald.

    At this point, that's what it looks like it'll be. Thankfully, Johnson gives those of us on the right someone to vote for that isn't The Donald. Takes care of two birds with one stone: Trump doesn't get our vote and potentially help further destabilize the two-party structure.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    America thanks you, @chrisisall.
    I am just a Berniebot, doing as told.
    :))
  • Here's my in-the-moment DNC report: Bill Clinton just gave a truly touching tribute to the Hillary HE knows -- and I hope anybody who's wanting to hear why they should vote FOR Hillary (rather than against the cartoon character that Donald presents himself as) listens to it. Be ready to learn about somebody you've seldom heard of before...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2016 Posts: 17,800
    Emotional exposition means nothing to me; I am a Berniebot. B-) Voting for Hillary is an imperative.
  • smitty wrote: »
    Not voting, or voting for the 2 independents is a vote for Trump.

    I don't really agree. Only a vote for Trump is a vote for Trump. Voting for Stein or Johnson is not the mortal sin that a vote for Trump represents. :((

    I think Johnson will get the Republican voters that can't stand Trump and Stein will get the Democratic voters that can't stomach Hillary. Based on the way the Ds and the Rs have treated their apostate elements, I think Trump is going to lose a lot more voters to Johnson than Hillary loses to Stein.
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