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Does Spectre actually make any sense?
Page 1 - For Your Eyes Only
Page 4 - Dr No
Page 6 - GoldenEye
Page 8 - Spectre
I recently posted this on a different thread. I am wondering whether I have missed anything but it seems that the plot of FYEO does not hold water.
the plot makes zero sense when you stop to think about it. The priority is to retrieve the ATAC. Yet instead of sending Bond and others to Havelock's boat (where info about his progress would be) and searching for the wreck, they send Bond to Gonzales. Huh?
For that matter why the hell is Kristartos in Cortina, and why hasn't he sent people to discreetly search Havelocks boat and search for the wreck?
His plan seems to be: kill the havelocks, chill out in Cortina for a bit, wait until the British sends one guy to retrieve the ATAC and then steal it from him. If MI6 had gone for the ATAC straightaway, his plan would be toast. The plot seems to have been written for an object whose whereabouts was completely unknown.
Also this is slightly separate but why does Kriegler and Loque try to kill Bond in Cortina when Kristatos is trying to trick Bond into killing Columbo?
I believe people may be blinded by the more ahem 'grounded' nature of FYEO after MR that they do not question the logic of the plot. Either that, or I deserve to put on the dunces cap.
Page 4 - Dr No
Page 6 - GoldenEye
Page 8 - Spectre
I recently posted this on a different thread. I am wondering whether I have missed anything but it seems that the plot of FYEO does not hold water.
the plot makes zero sense when you stop to think about it. The priority is to retrieve the ATAC. Yet instead of sending Bond and others to Havelock's boat (where info about his progress would be) and searching for the wreck, they send Bond to Gonzales. Huh?
For that matter why the hell is Kristartos in Cortina, and why hasn't he sent people to discreetly search Havelocks boat and search for the wreck?
His plan seems to be: kill the havelocks, chill out in Cortina for a bit, wait until the British sends one guy to retrieve the ATAC and then steal it from him. If MI6 had gone for the ATAC straightaway, his plan would be toast. The plot seems to have been written for an object whose whereabouts was completely unknown.
Also this is slightly separate but why does Kriegler and Loque try to kill Bond in Cortina when Kristatos is trying to trick Bond into killing Columbo?
I believe people may be blinded by the more ahem 'grounded' nature of FYEO after MR that they do not question the logic of the plot. Either that, or I deserve to put on the dunces cap.
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Comments
No one - neither Kristatos nor MI6 thinks to check Havelock's notes. It's as if his cabin has not been disturbed till Bond and Melina fetch up.
Presumably when he is shot MI6 someone down to have a look around? Didn't that guy report back 'There's a load of notes written in shorthand'?
At which point someone interviews Melina and says 'Don't suppose you can translate this for us love?'
And if MI6 are too incompetent to spot this then why doesn't Kristatos go over Havelock's notes and when he finds the shorthand kidnap Melina and say 'Don't suppose you can translate this for us or we'll kill you love?'
It's common knowledge the St George's sank somewhere in the area Havelock's boat was but instead of concentrating on this area Bond and Tanner seem obsessed with finding out who paid to kill Havelock (I blame M for going on leave - without him the place falls apart). Who cares? SMERSH, SPECTRE, Lee Harvey Oswald - once you have the answer how are you closer to finding the ATAC?
Also, apart from anything else, the moment the ATAC is compromised then either all its frequencies/settings would be changed or the entire ATAC system scrapped so that if someone does get hold of it it is useless. The Germans used to do that every time a cipher machine got stolen but this thing can launch nuclear missiles FFS.
P&W I apologise. Seems you get stick when many others don't for writing similarly shoddy stuff.
I'm tempted to start a new thread called 'Lay off P&W - Bond Films Have Always Been Poorly Written'.
Good to know you agree. I regard you as the most incisive poster on here.
Well actually it makes more sense than going to the factory where they were built.
'Hello police - someone's nicked my car. It's a black BMW.'
'Very good Sir. We'll send an officer over to Munich to snoop around the factory first thing in the morning.'
How very astute of you.
Well he wouldn't have been sent to the crash site since the Moonraker wasn't there.
It's true that most of the films have small (and sometimes not so small) plot holes. But FYEO is one giant plot hole & gets a free pass as the serious Moore adventure.
Hmm I'm not sure what you mean here. It's true he stumbles on zorin's earthquake scheme by accident but that's not a plot hole as far as I can see.
Despite all that, I still love FYEO. I wouldn't say it gets a free pass. I've read quite a few negative comments on here about the film and some people are just indifferent towards it. Which I can respect, as all of our members here usually provide us with some intelligent insight behind their opinions.
No, what MI6 was sent was not one of the Golden Bullets Scaramanga uses. They were sent a fake. What they needed was a real bulet, as used by Scaramanga.. It's obvious that what they received was a bigger caliber, for starters.
As for TMWTGG, a golden bullet was sent to Bond, hinting that Scaramanga had targeted him for a future hit. In reality, it was Scaramanga's mistress, Andrea Anders, had sent the bullet to Bond in order to encourage him to go after the assassin first. She wanted Scaramanga dead. While tracing the bullet, Bond had witnessed Scaramanga's hit on some British scientist and unexpectedly became involved in the Solex Agitator mission.
They'd get to grips with complicated movies! :))
It's amazing how some members NEVER post any positive comments on the film, always
Finding faults, then many of the same names jumping on to back up the original post. Very
Odd behaviour, for "lovers" of the films. :)) But I guess the love of knocking the movies is
A form of "Fandom"
This is bang on.
umm the point being that the first time anyone has searched Havelock's boat is the second part of the film when Bond and Melina search it. By all means hunt the killer of Havelocks but something needs to be done about the ATAC right, otherwise why all the fuss at the end?
@thunderpussy
All I ever see you do is clog up threads with inanities & emoticons. It's little more than spam. I'm not 'finding faults'. It's film discussion, which I find much more interesting than elimination games, or endless discussion of who will be Bond next.
You are indeed correct that Bond is only instructed to 'isolate' Gonzalez and 'apply the necessary pressure to find out who hired him'.
So once he works out Locque paid him on behalf of Kristatos and kicks Locque off the cliff isn't his mission complete? Does this mean when goes to retrieve the ATAC he has gone rogue? For despite what you state about him 'only then being ordered by MI6 to retrieve the ATAC' this is wishful thinking on your part and never actually happens.
Finding who paid to kill Havelock seems to be more important to MI6 than finding the ATAC for some strange reason.
Perhaps the orders come from M who is more concerned about bringing to book the Havelock's killers? The reason he is on leave is he is in mourning.
So Krisratos is pally with the KGB, knows who Havelock is and knows all about the ATAC but he wouldn't be able to find a random girl if she dropped of the grid? She's not Jason Bourne.
And of course he can find her because he sends the bikes to kill her in Cortina. Whereas if he'd done an elementary search of the Triana (no risk of exposing his cover as MI6 are only interested in who killed Gonzalez not finding the ATAC) he would have found the notebook and realise Melina is of use so he would be better off kidnapping and torturing her.
I think this is a good point and furthermore how could Kristatos even know if Havelock has already found the St Georges? The assassination of Havelock only makes sense if Kristatos asumed that Havelock has not already found the ATAC. If he had already found it and send the coordinations to the MI6, he had already completed his mission and his assassination would have been useless. So probably nobody broke in Havelock's office since they did not asume that there was anything to find.
So both sides simply do not know what the others know and try to avoid any false move. For both sides, it is better if the ATAC is still inside the sunk St. Georges than in the hands of their enemies. Therefore MI6 first tries to make clear who their enemy actually is instead of trying to raise the ATAC.
So Kristatos needed MI6 to find it because he couldn't defuse the explosive? Ok I can buy that (although no doubt Gogol could provide him with someone of sufficient expertise). So surely the thing to do is let Havelock get on with his job then and intercept him when he comes up with the ATAC (basically the same as they did with Bond). Why kill him?
I suppose that is moderately credible. Maybe after Gogol says 'I'll contact our usual friend in Greece' there's a missing scene with Kristatos where he finds out Havelock is in the area the ship sank and knows who Havelock is. He rings his diving crew and they and the nevessary equipment for the salvage are in another port and two days away so to avoid the risk of Havelock finding it first they top him?
But then with Havelock out of the way why does Kristatos sit around in Cortina rather than going full steam ahead to find the ATAC? I suppose maybe while all the Cortina stuff is happening he has his salvage crew working round the clock to find the St Georges?
Ok just about buying all that.
But why don't MI6 send anyone else to find the St Georges once Havelock is dead? Bond has been sent to find who killed Havelock so after he is killed MI6 just give up looking?
???
For the British it's fine if it lies on the seabed as its their secret technology and you assume they know how to build more (hence the 'How deep is the water there?' 'Not deep enough.' exchange).
But how is it better for the Russians if it just lies at the bottom of the sea? The whole point is that the Russians must not get the ATAC, hence when Bond lobs it off the cliff he succeeds in his mission.