The June 2016 UK Referendum on EU Membership: [UPDATE] What kind of BREXIT do YOU want?

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Comments

  • TigerTigerTigerTiger Stateside
    Posts: 21
    stag wrote: »
    I suggest you do some reading on the subject. As another poster has - perhaps facetiously - just pointed out 52% of the population was clamouring for it.

    I suggest you do some reading of a dictionary to see what "clamoring" means. Was anyone CLAMORING for this before it was raised as an issue by powerplaying Tories? Did anyone wake up in the morning thinking, "WOW, the EU is the reason my life is a misery, I think we should leave it!"

    Did YOU?

    I'd wager most UKers didn't even know they were in an EU until the referendum.

  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,053
    TigerTiger wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    I suggest you do some reading on the subject. As another poster has - perhaps facetiously - just pointed out 52% of the population was clamouring for it.

    I suggest you do some reading of a dictionary to see what "clamoring" means. Was anyone CLAMORING for this before it was raised as an issue by powerplaying Tories? Did anyone wake up in the morning thinking, "WOW, the EU is the reason my life is a misery, I think we should leave it!"

    Did YOU?

    I'd wager most UKers didn't even know they were in an EU until the referendum.

    This doesn't warrant the courtesy of a reply. The only reason I do so is to point out that it only reinforces the point I made about your earlier post.

    If I can offer five quids worth of free advice it is this. Please do not embarrass yourself further on subjects which are so obviously beyond your grasp.

  • TigerTigerTigerTiger Stateside
    Posts: 21
    Like all Brexiters, there's no response of any substance.

    Did you think about leaving the EU every day? What was on your wishlist? Loss of employee protections? Loss of revenue? fewer qualified doctors? Collapsed pound?

    Not sure why I'd expect anything of value from a Bond forum fan. Even the PM can't muster anything more meaningful than "Brexit means Brexit".

    Meanwhile, the government is determined to conduct negotiations in secret, because any actual open discussion would reveal that it's a pointless, expensive exercise and that nobody has any clue what to do or what's going to happen.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,053
    My reply in bold.
    TigerTiger wrote: »
    Like all Brexiters, there's no response of any substance.
    To be frank, nothing you have posted thus far has warranted a response of any substance.

    Did you think about leaving the EU every day? Yes and I wasn't alone. I didn't just think about it but actively campaignedWhat was on your wishlist? . Loss of employee protections? Loss of revenue? fewer qualified doctors? Collapsed pound?
    Not sure where you are gleaning your information but I can assure you you are misinformed. I could not only go into detail about my own motives but the expectations of those who I spoke to during the campaign but I reckon it would be an exercise in futility.

    Not sure why I'd expect anything of value from a Bond forum fan. Even the PM can't muster anything more meaningful than "Brexit means Brexit".
    Honestly, and going by your previous posts, I am completely sure why I could expect anything of value. This conversation is an exercise in futility as your grasp on the actual mechanics of the subject is so tenuous as to be none existent. I am being serious when I advise you that you are embarrassing yourself here. Best that you stick to Bond subjects or American politics, or some topic in which you are at least able to engage with a modicum of knowledge.

    Meanwhile, the government is determined to conduct negotiations in secret, because any actual open discussion would reveal that it's a pointless, expensive exercise and that nobody has any clue what to do or what's going to happen.

    Yawn

    I have a theory about the recent US election. I believe that Trump and Obama were in cahoots to rid American politics of the Clintons. The US voters were so stupid that they did not realise what was going on - indeed the vast majority are not even aware that they live in the USA.

    Sound ridiculous? No more so than your appraisal of Brexit.


  • Posts: 11,119
    There's one thing we can tell for sure: What the long-term results of Brexit are for the UK. How the UK functions in 5 years from now for example. Sadly, I am not that optimistic.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    You know for "sure" ? .... You couldn't give me this weeks Lottery numbers too. :))
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    There's one thing we can tell for sure: What the long-term results of Brexit are for the UK. How the UK functions in 5 years from now for example. Sadly, I am not that optimistic.

    Please expand Gustav as I am interested to hear what you forecast - I won't agree of course but I value your opinion nonetheless as at least you can speak on the subject intelligently.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    There's one thing we can tell for sure: What the long-term results of Brexit are for the UK.
    Freedom and explosive future growth?
    How the UK functions in 5 years from now for example.
    With a government that listens to and is accountable to its populace that elected them?

    Somehow I suspect your views on this matter are quite different from mine.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Gustav, doesn't like the results of an election, so complains. Rather like
    A certain Mr Trump was claiming to do, if his election didn't go his way. :D
  • TigerTigerTigerTiger Stateside
    Posts: 21
    stag wrote: »
    What was on your wishlist? . Loss of employee protections? Loss of revenue? fewer qualified doctors? Collapsed pound?
    Not sure where you are gleaning your information but I can assure you you are misinformed. I could not only go into detail about my own motives but the expectations of those who I spoke to during the campaign but I reckon it would be an exercise in futility.

    The only point I made that you've refuted is that you were oblivious to the effects of living in the EU prior to BoJo making it a talking point, or to Farage making it a talking point because he's a grotesque private school racist. I stand corrected and apologise.

    As for the rest, it's just more vague "I know better than you do but can't be bothered explaining any of it!" which we see all to commonly with the populist right.

    Please tell me your reasons for wanting to leave the EU. And how it's shaping up so far.

    I wonder if Brexiteers or Trump voters will ever admit to themselves that they've been conned, or that they're the playthings of powerful idiots. You can do it privately if you like.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,053
    Again I reply in bold within the body of text.
    TigerTiger wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    What was on your wishlist? . Loss of employee protections? Loss of revenue? fewer qualified doctors? Collapsed pound?
    Not sure where you are gleaning your information but I can assure you you are misinformed. I could not only go into detail about my own motives but the expectations of those who I spoke to during the campaign but I reckon it would be an exercise in futility.

    The only point I made that you've refuted is that you were oblivious to the effects of living in the EU prior to BoJo making it a talking point, or to Farage making it a talking point because he's a grotesque private school racist. I stand corrected and apologise.
    Did I? You may expand your knowledge base by first googling (ah that great friend of the situationally illiterate!) 'The Referendum Party'. By doing so you may learn that the datum point for unrest with the EU cabal was set much earlier than whatever 'news/current affairs' outlets you are currently gleaning your 'information' from. I presume that you are actually being serious when you suggest that the whole EU in/outdebate didn't arise before BoJo?

    As for the rest, it's just more vague "I know better than you do but can't be bothered explaining any of it!" which we see all to commonly with the populist right.
    Yawn

    Please tell me your reasons for wanting to leave the EU. And how it's shaping up so far.

    My reasons are explained here (it's a long one)
    Membership of the European Union is undemocratic because the European Commission, which is unelected, has the monopoly of proposing all EU legislation which it does in secret. It also has the power to issue regulations which are automatically binding in all member states .Put simply, Europe cannot best be organised by deliberate design. From the Common Fisheries Policy to the common currency, being part of the EU means trying to do things according to some kind of “blue print” determined by a Brussels elite. It makes things more or less bound to go wrong. Indeed, the more insulated from public accountability the Euro System has become, the more inept it is.

    By withdrawing from the EU, we will make it possible to organise economic and social affairs in this country not by deliberate design from the top down, but more organically and spontaneously. From the bottom up. Instead of common financial service rules, we might instead allow competing exchanges to offer different approaches and see which one works. Rather than a Common Agricultural Policy for millions of farmers, we might, you know, allow millions of farmers to each have their own farm policy for their farm.

    In an increasingly networked and interdependent world, the more successful societies are those that allow more decentralised decision making, by harnessing and balancing opposing forces. Britain’s refusal to be reconciled to being in the EU is not ultimately anything to do with flags or anthems. It’s because we know in our bones that it is a daft way to run a whole continent. I suspect it is not only the Brits who will soon be demanding the freedom to opt out.

    Too early to say how things are shaping up and you know full well it is. That said given your own viewpoints I guess you would have been in favour of British Rule of the USA continuing?


    I wonder if Brexiteers or Trump voters will ever admit to themselves that they've been conned, or that they're the playthings of powerful idiots. You can do it privately if you like.
    I wonder when the leftist will admit they have lost their elections/referendums and stop chanting that well worn 'everyone is racist/morons/unable to understand what they are voting for' whenever those people do not vote they way said leftists say they should vote?

    Me conned? I don't think so. You people have lost your elections/referendums you should get over it. As I've already said your grasp on the subject of Brexit is as shaky as mine on the recent political developments in the USA. Best always to stick to what you know.


  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    Somehow I suspect your views on this matter are quite different from mine.

    Ooowh absolutely. Perhaps it's also because we have very different salaries :-). Perhaps you are one of the richer forummembers in here. If people see my bank account, they surely would wonder why I'm not living on the streets yet :-).
  • TigerTigerTigerTiger Stateside
    Posts: 21
    Thanks for the explanation - it was all news to me and you are not the bandwagon jumper I thought you were. Apologies.

    But the rest is baloney. What will the UK be able to do outside the EU that it can't already do? Wear down workers' rights even further? Negotiate less lucrative trade deals with other nations individually? Lose freedom of movement? Are you a farmer? Is the Common Agricultural Policy particularly oppressive?
  • TigerTigerTigerTiger Stateside
    Posts: 21
    bondjames wrote: »
    Somehow I suspect your views on this matter are quite different from mine.

    Ooowh absolutely. Perhaps it's also because we have very different salaries :-). Perhaps you are one of the richer forummembers in here. If people see my bank account, they surely would wonder why I'm not living on the streets yet :-).

    I am more than US$140,000 in debt and climbing everyday... with no assets to show for it.

    Finger crossed you are in a worse position... making me NOT the loser of the boards!

  • Posts: 11,425
    What's amazing really with the referendum is that despite decades of bullsh*t about the EU from the British press, 48.2% still voted to stay in. 51.8% voted for something (no one knows what) else.

    One thing we can be sure of - once we exit the EU and reach Brexit-land, a majority of the British electorate will be unhappy with where they find themsevles. And a significant chunk of the 51.8% who voted to leave will be seriously disappointed.

    As @TigerTiger said, Brexit is a pointless waste of time. At best we will be no worse off than we were before.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    it's amazing how many have the gift of fortune telling on this thread :D
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,282
    it's amazing how many have the gift of fortune telling on this thread :D

    Angela Merkel's looking into her crystal ball right now.

  • TigerTigerTigerTiger Stateside
    Posts: 21
    It's amazing how Brexiters really have nothing to add. Empty vessels.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    Christartos / Focas / ... is back...
    *sigh*
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Christartos / Focas / ... is back...
    *sigh*

    Oops, I seem to have hit the ban button.

    >:)
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,053
    Once again my replies in bold embedded within the body of text.
    TigerTiger wrote: »
    Thanks for the explanation - it was all news to me and you are not the bandwagon jumper I thought you were. Apologies.

    If you are being sincere then apology accepted

    But the rest is baloney. What will the UK be able to do outside the EU that it can't already do? Wear down workers' rights even further? Negotiate less lucrative trade deals with other nations individually? Lose freedom of movement? Are you a farmer? Is the Common Agricultural Policy particularly oppressive?

    Your opening line is again a demonstration of how little you know on this subject. I have already suggested you read up on the matter so am not going to provide further explanation until you can present something which has at least some bearing on the reality of the situation.


    TigerTiger wrote: »

    I am more than US$140,000 in debt and climbing everyday... with no assets to show for it.

    Finger crossed you are in a worse position... making me NOT the loser of the boards!

    I am unsure of the relevance of this nugget of information to this debate. Who are you blaming for your predicament, Trump? Brexit? The 'populists'?
    Getafix wrote: »
    What's amazing really with the referendum is that despite decades of bullsh*t about the EU from the British press, 48.2% still voted to stay in. 51.8% voted for something (no one knows what) else.

    May I ask if you actively campaigned during the referendum? Did you get out and about to speak to people about their reasons for wishing to leave or remain in the EU? Explain fully please the correlation between your campaigning experience and your notion that the people were somehow brainwashed as personally I'd be most interested to read it.

    One thing we can be sure of - once we exit the EU and reach Brexit-land, a majority of the British electorate will be unhappy with where they find themsevles. And a significant chunk of the 51.8% who voted to leave will be seriously disappointed.

    As @TigerTiger said, Brexit is a pointless waste of time. At best we will be no worse off than we were before.

    Tripe. Had the EU not morphed (deliberately I may add) from its roots as a trading block into the would be Federal 'United States of Europe' then we wouldn't be having this conversation. That said there is indeed a distinct possibility that we will be no better off - financially that is. I also agree there will be disappointment but such is life. You must know that whomever or whatever you vote for under any circumstances you will not be completely satisfied.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I find many of the remain campaigners arguments reminding me of the similar
    Discussions around the Y2K bug. :D Basically " We're all doomed" .... Stock up
    On canned goods, build a secure basement, " Protect and Survive"
    The UK will become a wasteland, as the EU becomes a Utopia ! :))
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @Thunderpussy
    :))
    +1
  • Posts: 11,119
    I'm just talking against a giant big pole here :-).
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I've never had any complaints about my big pole ;)
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,425
    stag wrote: »
    Once again my replies in bold embedded within the body of text.
    TigerTiger wrote: »
    Thanks for the explanation - it was all news to me and you are not the bandwagon jumper I thought you were. Apologies.

    If you are being sincere then apology accepted

    But the rest is baloney. What will the UK be able to do outside the EU that it can't already do? Wear down workers' rights even further? Negotiate less lucrative trade deals with other nations individually? Lose freedom of movement? Are you a farmer? Is the Common Agricultural Policy particularly oppressive?

    Your opening line is again a demonstration of how little you know on this subject. I have already suggested you read up on the matter so am not going to provide further explanation until you can present something which has at least some bearing on the reality of the situation.


    TigerTiger wrote: »

    I am more than US$140,000 in debt and climbing everyday... with no assets to show for it.

    Finger crossed you are in a worse position... making me NOT the loser of the boards!

    I am unsure of the relevance of this nugget of information to this debate. Who are you blaming for your predicament, Trump? Brexit? The 'populists'?
    Getafix wrote: »
    What's amazing really with the referendum is that despite decades of bullsh*t about the EU from the British press, 48.2% still voted to stay in. 51.8% voted for something (no one knows what) else.

    May I ask if you actively campaigned during the referendum? Did you get out and about to speak to people about their reasons for wishing to leave or remain in the EU? Explain fully please the correlation between your campaigning experience and your notion that the people were somehow brainwashed as personally I'd be most interested to read it.

    One thing we can be sure of - once we exit the EU and reach Brexit-land, a majority of the British electorate will be unhappy with where they find themsevles. And a significant chunk of the 51.8% who voted to leave will be seriously disappointed.

    As @TigerTiger said, Brexit is a pointless waste of time. At best we will be no worse off than we were before.

    Tripe. Had the EU not morphed (deliberately I may add) from its roots as a trading block into the would be Federal 'United States of Europe' then we wouldn't be having this conversation. That said there is indeed a distinct possibility that we will be no better off - financially that is. I also agree there will be disappointment but such is life. You must know that whomever or whatever you vote for under any circumstances you will not be completely satisfied.

    You used the word brainwashed. I was just observing that most of what the British press 'reports' about the EU is and has been for years total nonsense.

    Anyway, given that 90% of the British press has been printing a tidal wave of misinformation about the EU for decades, it's pretty incredible that 48.2% of the electorate still voted to stay in.

    Given that in any non general election vote a significant number of people are just looking to give the government of the day a good kicking, irrespective of the policies on offer, the democratic mandate for Brexit is practically non existent.

    Add in the fact that we know a majority of young voters were pro remain but couldn't be bothered to vote, and the morality of leaving on such a waver thin 'majority' is frankly scandalous.

    Cameron will go down in history as one of those well intentioned but useless appeasers like Chamberlain.

    Brexit is a pointless distraction from what we should be doing. It's like picking a fight with your own team instead of playing the opposition. Utterly utterly self defeating and idiotic to the core.
  • Posts: 4,325
    Hard and soft with a cherry on top.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,282
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Hard and soft with a cherry on top.

    No doubt the fence-sitting position on Brexit. I like it!
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,053
    You all know the score now. My replies in bold text.
    Getafix wrote: »
    .

    You used the word brainwashed. I was just observing that most of what the British press 'reports' about the EU is and has been for years total nonsense.

    Anyway, given that 90% of the British press has been printing a tidal wave of misinformation about the EU for decades, it's pretty incredible that 48.2% of the electorate still voted to stay in.

    Given that in any non general election vote a significant number of people are just looking to give the government of the day a good kicking, irrespective of the policies on offer, the democratic mandate for Brexit is practically non existent.

    They did? Could you please elaborate by telling me from where you sourced this information.

    Add in the fact that we know a majority of young voters were pro remain but couldn't be bothered to vote, and the morality of leaving on such a waver thin 'majority' is frankly scandalous.

    They exersised their right not to vote as, I hazard a guess, did many 'leavers'. If they couldn't be bothered to vote why should they be bothered about the outcome? I'd wager that if you - the remainers - had carried the day then that 'wafer thin majority' would have taken on a whole new meaning.

    Cameron will go down in history as one of those well intentioned but useless appeasers like Chamberlain.

    Agreed (though for different reasons and definitions of who he appeased).

    Brexit is a pointless distraction from what we should be doing. It's like picking a fight with your own team instead of playing the opposition. Utterly utterly self defeating and idiotic to the core.

    Brexit is the single biggest opportunity this country has had to prosper in decades. How can we grow as both an economy and a nation when we are shackled at the wrists and ankles by the EU? If you are intimating that we can somehow negotiate with the EU while remaining a member then your answer has already been given by Cameron.


    Lastly I notice you avoided this one so I'll repeat myself.

    May I ask if you actively campaigned during the referendum? Did you get out and about to speak to people about their reasons for wishing to leave or remain in the EU? Explain fully please the correlation between your campaigning experience and your notion that the people were somehow brainwashed as personally I'd be most interested to read it.


  • Posts: 4,325
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Hard and soft with a cherry on top.

    No doubt the fence-sitting position on Brexit. I like it!

    Fence-sitting?
This discussion has been closed.