Controversial opinions about Bond films

1239240242244245707

Comments

  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    I was watching Mi3 not long ago and QoS practically nicked the scene when Hunt is taken away by agents but then escapes by knocking them all out in a lift.

    I get your point about the generic feel in places.
  • LordBrettSinclairLordBrettSinclair Greensleeves
    Posts: 167
    Maybe should not comment on QOS/DAD/SF/TWINE.

    I dislike much those. For SF/TWINE I even feel disgust.

    This is controversial I guess. Will it make me enemy here if I admit that?

    I love 20 Bond movies. 4 I could do without entirely. Hope is not too controversial :)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    For SF/TWINE I even feel disgust.

    This is controversial I guess. Will it make me enemy here if I admit that?
    Dislike for SF could put you in harm's way. Your view on TWINE actually has won you at least one friend for life. Me.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,967
    @LordBrettSinclair, you're really grasping for straws there in an attempt to mark QoS as unoriginal. By that logic, then, CR is unoriginal and dull because it doesn't have any MP/Q scenes, either.
  • LordBrettSinclairLordBrettSinclair Greensleeves
    Posts: 167
    @Creasy47 then turn around things and explain what makes QOS original.
    I am always willing to learn. Years ago I disliked DAF as well, then learned to love it.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited January 2017 Posts: 40,967
    @Creasy47 then turn around things and explain what makes QOS original.
    I am always willing to learn. Years ago I disliked DAF as well, then learned to love it.

    A direct, purely action-driven sequel that deals with Bond on a semi-related mission while subsequently battling the loss of Vesper and finding his own sense of revenge or closure. Olga is one of the more original Bond girls in the series (she helps Bond, Bond helps her, it doesn't go overboard with the whole "Bond's equal in feminine form" angle, and they share a beautiful kiss at the end, that says to me that they could've been lovers under different circumstances, but their reasons for working together were fueled by revenge for their loved ones. No other 007/Bond girl relationship works in such a way.)

    Add in the four natural elements shaping a lot of the locales, action sequences, and set pieces, and I'd say you have a cracking, fun, and original installment. It's an original story as a sequel to a Fleming novel, and it deserves infinitely more credit than it gets for being in the shape it's in, considering the writer's strike and the fact that they were writing the script/coming up with new ideas as filming went along. The movie should've been a massive trainwreck in that regard, but it's not.

    If you feel it's unoriginal, then that's your opinion, but I'd enjoy a bit more reasoning than the choreography is akin to Bourne, or a lack of MP and Q makes it feel un-Bondian. Is MR unoriginal because it can be compared to 'Star Wars'? Is SF unoriginal because it borrows so heavily from other successful films, both new and old (at the time)? Is LTK unoriginal because it's basically an extended episode of 'Miami Vice'?
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    The editing in QoS was original for Bond (at that time) but certainly wasn't original for the action film genre. As has been mentioned, it had Bourne (which had already completed its initial 3 film run by this time) written all over it. I'll give Forster & Co. credit for injecting some glamour and class into the action proceedings though. The scenes are filled with atmosphere, which is generally missing from Taken, Bourne & the like. That's where SP has more in common with them, with its generic & cheap monotone palette.

    @acoppola, yes I acknowledge that Dalton did a great job with what he was served. We can't take that away from him. I may have problems with his delivery in instances, but I think he had screen presence (as I've said, the only actor I feel was short in this dept. was Brosnan - I noticed it right away in GE where his co-stars were chewing the scenery compared to him. Craig on the other hand held his own with the formidable Green & Co. in CR, which is no small feat) and could have been far more impressive with a different director.

    Thanks @bondjames Dalton indeed had screen presence. It was his seriousness that annoyed audiences who were not accustomed to it following 25 years of films.

    He achieved a lot in 2 films. He created a sub-genre for the series. And 20 years later, they took it to a new level.

    No small feat.





  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Personally I don't think Dalts has a strong enough presence onscreen but hey ho.

    I like the seriousness Dalton brought to the role but I think Craig takes it a step further and seems genuinely tougher.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @BAIN123, when I think of screen presence, I ask whether the actor in question holds or commands the screen, irrespective of his performance. In that respect, I think Dalton succeeded. I didn't like his performance in quite a few instances, but he is the one I look at when he's in the frame. With Brosnan, I find I'm usually looking at the other actors for some reason. It was reassuring to be engrossed by Bond again once Craig came along.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    i'm the opposite. As tall as Dalton is physically, I don't think he commands the screen.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Personally I don't think Dalts has a strong enough presence onscreen but hey ho.

    I like the seriousness Dalton brought to the role but I think Craig takes it a step further and seems genuinely tougher.




    Dalton's presence is strong.

    Funny enough, Dalton did say Craig took it further. He thought CR was in some parts the best he had seen in a Bond movie.

    He wished he got scripts like that, but, EON were not ready for that.

    The Bourne film kicked EON in the arse to up their game.


  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    Is it? I'm looking at Desmond more than I am Dalton in that scene.

    Like I've said before Dalton works far better on the small screen.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Desmond? What about Carey in that dress!
  • Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    Desmond? What about Carey in that dress!

    and her too ;)
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Is it? I'm looking at Desmond more than I am Dalton in that scene.

    Like I've said before Dalton works far better on the small screen.

    He stands out like a sore thumb. And Dalton is giving space for Desmond to shine.

    Actors would disagree with you. And like all opinions, it is subjective.

    Where is the presence when Craig is with the Queen? He hardly is noticeable with the furniture around him.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    acoppola wrote: »
    Where is the presence when Craig is with the Queen? He hardly is noticeable with the furniture around him.
    I'll be perfectly honest (and I like Craig a lot), but I remember cringing a little when I saw that scene, and thought to myself how it could have been with a previous actor.

    That's not Craig's game though. He's not a catalogue model and is much better when he's actually acting as Bond. I also thought he didn't want to overshadow the Queen. So I cut him some slack despite not being impressed.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Obviously it is all opinion but it is a fact that much of Dalton's filmography consists of predominantly television work. His film work is few and far between. He works in scene stealing supporting roles (Hot Fuzz and Rocketeer) but less as a lead.

    Craig has a presence and, to be fair, ANY actor would be upstaged by the Queen.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Obviously it is all opinion but it is a fact that much of Dalton's filmography consists of predominantly television work. His film work is few and far between. He works in scene stealing supporting roles (Hot Fuzz and Rocketeer) but less as a lead.

    Craig has a presence and, to be fair, ANY actor would be upstaged by the Queen.




    By your definition, I have to say neither does Craig.

    Dalton is not A list, but I value his talent and sincerity. He should have done more films as a younger man.

    And Brosnan's post Bond work like November Man is an old Bond doing Bourne. Dalton chooses his roles more fussily.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Obviously it is all opinion but it is a fact that much of Dalton's filmography consists of predominantly television work. His film work is few and far between. He works in scene stealing supporting roles (Hot Fuzz and Rocketeer) but less as a lead.

    Craig has a presence and, to be fair, ANY actor would be upstaged by the Queen.

    Disagree. He had equal opportunity. Is the Queen a better actress than Eva Green?

    Shots of Craig alone walking to the camera where he is the only object of attention.


    Dalton with his dark features would have done better. Younger of course.

    I felt any past Bond would have done better with the Queen.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Broz has certainly done his fair share of light-weight, "Bond-esque" films and I don't consider him the best of actors himself, but he's also done the more meaty roles (Love is all you Need is very good as is The Ghost Writer).

    He's also doing an Ernest Hemingway adaptation directed by Martin Campbell.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    Where is the presence when Craig is with the Queen? He hardly is noticeable with the furniture around him.
    I'll be perfectly honest (and I like Craig a lot), but I remember cringing a little when I saw that scene, and thought to myself how it could have been with a previous actor.

    That's not Craig's game though. He's not a catalogue model and is much better when he's actually acting as Bond. I also thought he didn't want to overshadow the Queen. So I cut him some slack despite not being impressed.

    Although he was supposed to be playing Bond in that scene. He knew the character.

    But, I was making a point how presence opens a can of worms @bondjames. @bain123

  • Posts: 11,189
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Obviously it is all opinion but it is a fact that much of Dalton's filmography consists of predominantly television work. His film work is few and far between. He works in scene stealing supporting roles (Hot Fuzz and Rocketeer) but less as a lead.

    Craig has a presence and, to be fair, ANY actor would be upstaged by the Queen.

    Disagree. He had equal opportunity. Is the Queen a better actress than Eva Green?

    Shots of Craig alone walking to the camera where he is the only object of attention.


    Dalton with his dark features would have done better. Younger of course.

    I felt any past Bond would have done better with the Queen.

    I think whoever the Bond actor is, they are bound to be upstaged by a member of the royal family. Especially as, back then, we didn't know until we saw her that the Queen herself would appear in the Olympic film.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Obviously it is all opinion but it is a fact that much of Dalton's filmography consists of predominantly television work. His film work is few and far between. He works in scene stealing supporting roles (Hot Fuzz and Rocketeer) but less as a lead.

    Craig has a presence and, to be fair, ANY actor would be upstaged by the Queen.

    Disagree. He had equal opportunity.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Obviously it is all opinion but it is a fact that much of Dalton's filmography consists of predominantly television work. His film work is few and far between. He works in scene stealing supporting roles (Hot Fuzz and Rocketeer) but less as a lead.

    Craig has a presence and, to be fair, ANY actor would be upstaged by the Queen.

    Disagree. He had equal opportunity. Is the Queen a better actress than Eva Green?

    Shots of Craig alone walking to the camera where he is the only object of attention.


    Dalton with his dark features would have done better. Younger of course.

    I felt any past Bond would have done better with the Queen.

    I think whoever the Bond actor is, they are bound to be upstaged by a member of the royal family. Especially as, back then, we didn't know until we saw her that the Queen herself would appear in the Olympic film.


    Nope. The camera doesn't lie. The Queen was so nice about it. But you barely notice him with the butler as they approach the door.

    Even the dog had presence. Woof.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    i'm the opposite. As tall as Dalton is physically, I don't think he commands the screen.

    Completely. He's great, but he doesn't have that magneticism that the top tier of screen actors do. It's not a problem for me, TLD is without a doubt one of my favourites, but it's a blotch on his report.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    @bain123 both Craig and Dalton have presence. Magnetism? Watch Dalton in Framed. He should have done more of that in Bond
  • Posts: 11,189

    Craig has a presence and, to be fair, ANY actor would be upstaged by the
    Nope. The camera doesn't lie. The Queen was so nice about it. But you barely notice him with the butler as they approach the door.

    Even the dog had presence. Woof.

    I remember the attention that sketch got at the time and was watching it with a very vocal group of friends who were all waiting to see if it WAS actually the queen who would appear.

    In that scenario surely any actor would seem next important next to the Queen.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »

    Craig has a presence and, to be fair, ANY actor would be upstaged by the
    Nope. The camera doesn't lie. The Queen was so nice about it. But you barely notice him with the butler as they approach the door.

    Even the dog had presence. Woof.

    I remember the attention that sketch got at the time and was watching it with a very vocal group of friends who were all waiting to see if it WAS actually the queen who would appear.

    In that scenario surely any actor would seem next important next to the Queen.


    You must also remember that Bond is a massive British institution and as famous as the Queen.

    I actually think Dalton in some scenes is too present. In the car when he quips at Saunders about paragraph/section is an example.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited January 2017 Posts: 5,131
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Obviously it is all opinion but it is a fact that much of Dalton's filmography consists of predominantly television work. His film work is few and far between. He works in scene stealing supporting roles (Hot Fuzz and Rocketeer) but less as a lead.

    Craig has a presence and, to be fair, ANY actor would be upstaged by the Queen.

    Disagree. He had equal opportunity. Is the Queen a better actress than Eva Green?

    Shots of Craig alone walking to the camera where he is the only object of attention.


    Dalton with his dark features would have done better. Younger of course.

    I felt any past Bond would have done better with the Queen.

    I think whoever the Bond actor is, they are bound to be upstaged by a member of the royal family. Especially as, back then, we didn't know until we saw her that the Queen herself would appear in the Olympic film.

    The Royal are a tradition and I'd never want that to end. But what a load of bollocks....not one member of the Royal family have any charisma whatsoever. They are just an institution and symbol...but a bland one. Craig stole that scene. I met Princess Di when I was a child. Nice Lady, but 'royalty' means nothing really other than guaranteed affluence and public appearances.
  • Posts: 11,189
    That maybe so but nonetheless of whether the Queen would appear was the main focus of that sketch.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    acoppola wrote: »
    I actually think Dalton in some scenes is too present.

    X8graq.gif
Sign In or Register to comment.