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The Truth Behind Spectre and The Quantum Connection.
Eric_007
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Hello,
Evening my Fellow Agents. Today's Discussion is concerning the Recent Events that have spanned Craig's Bond for the Past Years.
I've been wanting to get down to the truth of the Connection Between the Quantum and Spectre Organizations. Being that 007 started out Taking on Le Chieffe and Successfully taking on Quantum and Greene Afterward. The Films State that Quantum was tied to Spectre but what was the True Role of Quantum.....
Was it A precursor or Subsidiary. I say Subsidiary being that Mr. Greene was in charge but Mr. White was a Liason and Overseer of it all. Going into Skyfall which was to me less interesting if it were a stand alone film because Silva's connections were way to big to operate solo as alot of people have pointed out. But pay close attention in Skyfall where Silva is always highlighting Bonds Childhood Trauma which we find out was caused by Franz Overhauser. He points it out in the first meeting and then again when he doesn't say a word and stares at Bonds Parents grave and Laughs as if he knows something we don't.
So why would an Ex Operative care about that when his Main Goal was to Kill M?
What was the Importance of showing us that Scene? It is because Silva has had previous encounters with Franz Oberhauser and a discussion was definitley had between the 2. Possibly Concerning a Common Enemy which was James and how they're 2 goals intertwined. Franz gave Resources to Silva in Exchange Silva would Murder M which he wanted to do anyway and Kill Or Wound James. Makes Perfect Sense. And Makes Skyfall so much more awesome. In Craig's Era there is no Stand Alone Film all of them are Connected. With the Exception of Bloodstone 007 the PS3 exclusive Game which served as a Canon Story that took place After Quantum of Solace and Before Skyfall. That Being Said in Quantum Of Solace Bond Stops the Terria Project and Greene is killed for leaked information about Quantum. But who would've ordered the hit? Surely not Any of the Quantum Members after being exposed by Bond at the Opera. Moshi sarov and Guy Haines definitely wouldn't make a move like that it would compromise they're respective positions. This order came from the top... Way above Quantum and they're Water Extortion Schemes. Fran's had Greene Murdered as All Spectre Members do when they fail.
Being that Quantum of Solace was a Short Story. I believe that is how the Movie should be viewed as a short story... A conclusion to Casino Royale which it truly was. After all it was still Year 1 in Bonds Career so he was Young.
Now I Want to Get into more Detail involving Skyfall and Spectre.
The List of Agents Being persued was used to expose MI6 to Compromise them and make them seem unreliable and outdated. Now that is the Overall Objective not for Silva because his Motive is Revenge on M. The Objective was that of Spectre's who would've been working with Max Denbe head of joint security. Perfect timing wouldn't you say after MI6 being exposed and beat down why not have it scrapped and replace with A Global intelligence Agency. So not only was Silva Equipped with tools to do both objectives but buy the time it was done Spectre was already putting the Next Phase into Place.
I'll continue my Exposition In a later Post.
I'd love to hear from you Guys.
0097
Evening my Fellow Agents. Today's Discussion is concerning the Recent Events that have spanned Craig's Bond for the Past Years.
I've been wanting to get down to the truth of the Connection Between the Quantum and Spectre Organizations. Being that 007 started out Taking on Le Chieffe and Successfully taking on Quantum and Greene Afterward. The Films State that Quantum was tied to Spectre but what was the True Role of Quantum.....
Was it A precursor or Subsidiary. I say Subsidiary being that Mr. Greene was in charge but Mr. White was a Liason and Overseer of it all. Going into Skyfall which was to me less interesting if it were a stand alone film because Silva's connections were way to big to operate solo as alot of people have pointed out. But pay close attention in Skyfall where Silva is always highlighting Bonds Childhood Trauma which we find out was caused by Franz Overhauser. He points it out in the first meeting and then again when he doesn't say a word and stares at Bonds Parents grave and Laughs as if he knows something we don't.
So why would an Ex Operative care about that when his Main Goal was to Kill M?
What was the Importance of showing us that Scene? It is because Silva has had previous encounters with Franz Oberhauser and a discussion was definitley had between the 2. Possibly Concerning a Common Enemy which was James and how they're 2 goals intertwined. Franz gave Resources to Silva in Exchange Silva would Murder M which he wanted to do anyway and Kill Or Wound James. Makes Perfect Sense. And Makes Skyfall so much more awesome. In Craig's Era there is no Stand Alone Film all of them are Connected. With the Exception of Bloodstone 007 the PS3 exclusive Game which served as a Canon Story that took place After Quantum of Solace and Before Skyfall. That Being Said in Quantum Of Solace Bond Stops the Terria Project and Greene is killed for leaked information about Quantum. But who would've ordered the hit? Surely not Any of the Quantum Members after being exposed by Bond at the Opera. Moshi sarov and Guy Haines definitely wouldn't make a move like that it would compromise they're respective positions. This order came from the top... Way above Quantum and they're Water Extortion Schemes. Fran's had Greene Murdered as All Spectre Members do when they fail.
Being that Quantum of Solace was a Short Story. I believe that is how the Movie should be viewed as a short story... A conclusion to Casino Royale which it truly was. After all it was still Year 1 in Bonds Career so he was Young.
Now I Want to Get into more Detail involving Skyfall and Spectre.
The List of Agents Being persued was used to expose MI6 to Compromise them and make them seem unreliable and outdated. Now that is the Overall Objective not for Silva because his Motive is Revenge on M. The Objective was that of Spectre's who would've been working with Max Denbe head of joint security. Perfect timing wouldn't you say after MI6 being exposed and beat down why not have it scrapped and replace with A Global intelligence Agency. So not only was Silva Equipped with tools to do both objectives but buy the time it was done Spectre was already putting the Next Phase into Place.
I'll continue my Exposition In a later Post.
I'd love to hear from you Guys.
0097
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Comments
Not sure they planned so much ahead, but you make some good points in the OP.
Some VIPs would have no problem working for an organization that uses shady/less than legal methods to ensure profitable business deals and attain geopolitical goals that the "little people" (and legal ethicists) just wouldn't understand (or approve of)... Those same business tycoons and politicians would NOT, however, join an organization which is heavily involved in, for example, sex trafficking-- which the Craig-era SPECTRE most definitely is.
I daresay that the majority of the VIPs whom Bond uncovers as Quantum members at the Bregenz opera in QOS probably don't even know that SPECTRE (and Blofeld) exists.
Silva: Gun-for-hire, financed by Blofeld to do the dirty deeds he commits in SKYFALL... with the added bonus that he wants personal revenge against M and MI6. Where do you think those mercenaries (and the attack helicopter) which feature in the climax of SF came from? Blofeld.
It's all really that simple.
It obviously wasn't planned in advance (if only they'd had the balls to commit to QoS fully as a title and keep the organisation nameless then there'd have been no retcon needed) but it works imo. I think the real issue lies with Le Chiffre and Silva being Spectre agents.
How much of a word of God it is I don't know but I've read it on various websites.
From Eric_007
Quantum was a cool organization - I still like the little "Q" pins - a wonderful nod to the Spectre rings in FRWL/TB/YOLT yet less silly by today's standards.
There is one thing (I did not find a proper thread to ask so feel free to move the question): Why for god's sake did they use that octopus symbol? I mean - the organization's name is SPECTRE and if I am not mistaken (english is not my native language) this is a "haunting ghost" so to speak and that was the symbol on the FRWL/TB/YOLT rings. Why the octopus? I found that extremely silly and the title sequence was soo ... disturbing. Please help me out to understand this nonsense (LOL) :-)
@Last_Rat_Standing To be Honest i was like 12 or 13 when i first saw Quantum of Solace
then i watched Casino Royale then proceeded to Watch every bond film from Connery to Brosnan and i noticed a familiar pattern. that there are 2 types of Bond. I call it classic bond and Modern bond. Classic Bond would be considered Sean,Lazenby because they took on Missions that were all related to SPECTRE I believe with the exception of Goldfinger. Modern Bond is Considered Moore,Bronson because they were all Solo Missions with Singular Villains. But when i got to Craig i didn't know what to classify him as because of Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace. I had no knowledge then of any other organization Bond encountered until then. Then i was lost when Skyfall came out because i didn't know whether it was a solo story or was it connected to Quantum and the first 2. Spectre cleared that up i had no clue they didn't have rights to SPECTRE.
People keep saying this, but that's not true at all.
The SPECTRE organisation was handled bad in SPECTRE because of several reasons, not because it was called Quantum.
Quantum or SPECTRE are just names.
Had Skyfall been lightly hinting at a larger power behind Silva, I could have bought the fact that he was in league with Blofeld. But there is none. The helicopter and mercenaries could be explained by Silva's connections. He could acquire wealth with ease through his expert "hacking" skills to pay for everything, even blackmail political/military figures.
Im sorry but that's ridiculous. 'Proof'? Wouldn't even be laughed out of court as it's so thin it would never come to court in the first place.
Anyone who thinks EON planned all this from the start needs to ask themselves 'So what would they have done had they not acquired the rights to SPECTRE in late 2013?'
Say the Mcclory estate had said 'We ain't selling to EON under any circumstances' then what happens to this grand story arc they have had in place since 06 and hinges on the reveal of Blofeld?
Also given what a shambles SP was I can just about let them off that it was a hamfisted retcon job. The thought that they might have had this whole thing planned for close on a decade would expose them as being shockingly inept on a Tory-party-Brexit-negotiations level.
As @Gettler rightly pointed out here : The helicopter and mercenaries could be explained by Silva's connections. He could acquire wealth with ease through his expert "hacking" skills to pay for everything, even blackmail political/military figures.
I look at SF as I look at GF...both are stand-alone ,non SPECTRE or QUANTUM films,for both Connery and Craig's 3rd outings.
That's how I view it too funnily enough. It's all there in Ian Fleming's chapters on Blofeld in Thunderball (1961).
I think it was Purvis and Wade who said that, something about Quantum being Spectre's UK branch? But that's overly complicated imo. To me it's simple. Spectre have people everywhere. White and Green were there "tentacles" inside Quantum just as they probably have agents in every other criminal organisation. Proto Spectre works too but I think with how they were exposed by the end of QoS it makes more sense that Blofeld wasn't directly involved, since he managed to remain hidden for the best part of a decade afterwards. Quantum were destroyed by Bond and Camille but there are a few loose ends, M looks into it and eventually traces a couple of the members back to a larger organisation (probably found them through White, Sciarro was meant to kill him so that could have been where she got his name).
It's still a bit contrived since Quantum were so similar in set up but I think it works since their overall goals were different (from the meeting it seems Spectre is more outright organised crime, Quantum were all about shadowy politics and business deals). No need for the organisations to actually be tied together outside of those men.
I just wish they hadn't named Quantum. It's only Green who names them at the end and to me that just seemed tacked on because of the backlash about the title. I would have much rather kept them as a nameless organisation until they got the rights back but to be fair I guess they didn't know that'd definitely happen.
I suppose one can find a meaning in the symbol by saying SPECTRE has many tentacles, it's far-reaching, it has a strong grip on people, etc. but that's not a metaphor that pops up anywhere except in the title sequence (which I actually like a lot) and the print on Madeleine's dress at Blofeld's HQ. If they really had to bring back the octopus symbol, it was a missed opportunity not to make more of it in the film. Hell I would have loved to see Blofeld literally own a pet octopus. It's a Bond movie, not everything has to be subtle metaphor. ;)