Dr. No versus the field: Skyfall

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  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Except of course for Craig portraying Bond like a working class Everyman.

    Mmmm. I totally disagree...............................

    Daniel Craig is the ideal Bond. He encapsulates everything that Bond is and has evolved to be since 007 first emerged into existence from the smoky Royale-les-Eaux casino in Ian Fleming’s 1953 novel Casino Royale. Craig’s portrayal of Bond is not only the closest representation of Fleming’s literary super-operator (minus the 60-a-day smoking habit and blonde hair), but he has created the Bond for the 21st century. Craig entered the Bond legacy in his own hard-hitting, back-to-basics style.

    The Cold War-esque elimination of the secret-selling Dryden in the opening sequence of Casino Royale, marking Bond’s second 00-qualifying kill, shows Craig can deliver the smooth operator side of Bond, quipping immediately after firing a single, lethal round into the traitor’s head. Mixed in with this scene is Bond’s brutal assassination of Dryden’s contact in a toilet. This is the hard-edged warrior side of Bond that was not as apparent in the other portrayals; and in one opening sequence of a Bond film.

    Craig’s Bond portrayal is nothing short of a renaissance for the series, which had become somewhat tired and hackneyed after Brosnan’s spate of wielding the Walther. The references had become overbearing, Q was a member of Monty Python, and the plots Bond found himself involved with were on par with the most ludicrous of the Moore era. Bond was just a brand which was wheeled out every two years for some popcorn-munching blockbusting fun. The true meaning of Bond had been lost to poor scripts, silly fights and daft gadgets. Craig’s Bond would blow away, in just one film, all the tropes and criticisms levelled at the 007 series since On Her Majesty’s Secret Service.

    What puts Craig ahead of some of his predecessors is that his portrayal stands up not just in cinematic terms, but also when looking at Bond’s literary history. Craig captures the essence of Fleming’s Bond, a hot war fighter battling in the shadows where the lines between friend and foe are not clear-cut. Fleming’s Bond is not an Übermensch, capable of withstanding anything thrown at him. There is a vulnerable and emotional side to the character, a certain fragility hidden behind the armour he shrouds himself in, the same armour that is stripped away by Vesper in Casino Royale.

    What makes Craig unique is that his Bond is a human being. Admittedly, he is an exceptional human being, trained to high standards and exacting tastes (caviar, champagne, martini's, tailored suits are still all there) – but he can still bleed, and that is what we see. Brosnan’s Bond hurt his shoulder, but no Bond except for Craig had been tortured to the point of castration before the machinations of organised crime ironically saved his life *this is also straight from Fleming's novel). Craig’s Bond is the pinnacle of physical ability, trained to drive and shoot to the elite levels, but he’s also just a man alone, isolated. Twice in Casino Royale, Bond nearly dies except for fortuitously timed interventions by others (Vesper with the defibrillator and Mr White killing Le Chiffre). This also mirrors Fleming.

    And no matter how hard he fights, how fast he drives or accurately he shoots, he can’t totally protect the ones he truly loves, as we see in Casino Royale and Skyfall, and it’s that haunting loss and fear of failure that runs deep through both Fleming’s and Craig’s Bond – more so than any other Bond to date.

    What sets Craig apart from the rest of the Bond actors is that he draws on the best elements of his predecessors, and then makes the character his own through his portrayal, adding in the supreme physicality combined with the armoured yet still vulnerable humanity. He has the coolness/ screen presence of Connery, the emotion of Lazenby, the smoothness of Moore, the hardness of Dalton and the charm of Brosnan. But most of all, Craig has Fleming’s Bond at the core of his performance. Even in Quantum of Solace, one of the least critically-acclaimed of all the Bond films, he embodies the cold cruelness at the heart of the original short story, a novella that barely even featured Bond. Though the film was ravaged with production issues (including a writer’s strike), Craig plays the character correctly, as a man whose soul has been hardened by betrayal.

    Craig is a Bond for all ages, appealing to all demographics, and has created some of the most iconic moments of the series. Yet he still embodies the military officer, public school boy persona within a well tailored suit.

    His portrayal is not only the (arguably - I favour Connery) best cinematically but also, when matched with Fleming’s original creation, he is the closest to embodying the Commander’s vision of the ultimate intelligence agent.
  • Posts: 654
    That’s an excellent analysis of Craig’s Bond, but you gotta ask yourself one question... where is the raised eyebrow? I take points off if that is missing. That’s quintessential Bond, as brilliantly exemplified by the late great Sir Roger Moore.

    As well, where is the double-taking pigeon in the Craig films?? We sorely miss him. Danny Boyle, please bring him back. Pleeeeaaaase!!!
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 654
    Here are some pics from my Key West summer trip 2 years ago:

    This is the famous Seven Mile Bridge which I'm sure you'll recognize from LTK, as well as from TRUE LIES.
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    This is the hotel where we stayed
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    Here is Sanchez's iguana (sans the diamond necklace) crawling up the tree outside our hotel balcony. These rascals are all over the place! (sorry for the sideways pic)
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    Here's the Barrelhead Bar where Pam saves Bond's bacon from Dario and goons
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    Felix Leiter residence at 707 South Street (being renovated during my visit) - notice the 007 logo above the doorway!
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    Here's a glimpse of the rear and pool area (also being renovated)
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    Here is the property as of March 2017, fully renovated, sold for 5 million!! Check out the Bond posters on the wall in one of those rooms!
    https://miami.curbed.com/2017/3/23/15036752/key-west-home-james-bond-licence-to-kill

    St. Mary Star of the Sea Church, over which Bond and Felix parachuted for the wedding
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    (sorry for sideways pic)
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    Key West Lighthouse (I made my way up there, no active shooters spotted)
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    Ernest Hemingway House - where Bond meets M (across the street from the lighthouse)
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    Somewhere about here M revokes 007's licence - "God help you, commander"
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    The grounds contain an incredible variety of breeds of cats, some looking like lions!! Benign bizarre indeed LOL!
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    Of all the places at Key West I enjoyed the Hemingway House the most. It's a historic landmark and their guided tour was very informative. You really learn a lot about Hemingway, his lifestyle, and what drove the man. I also enjoyed exploring the grounds, looking at the weird cats lol, and just relaxing in that shady, tranquil place. The other place I would highly recommend is the Harry Truman White House which was basically his tropical getaway - his home away from home at the White House in DC. It's also a historic landmark and their guided tour (by a huge Truman fan who even shook his hand as a little boy!!) was VERY informative and interesting.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Great photos @ringfire211 .
  • Posts: 4,044
    NicNac wrote: »
    Great photos @ringfire211 .

    Yes, thanks a lot for sharing
  • Posts: 654
    You're welcome, guys! Hope you enjoyed them :)
  • Another solid round folks, as we come to an end of another era of Bond. This time, Dr. No was able to hold on for the win against Licence to Kill, by a margin of 265-171-6. It won the number of games pretty solidly as well, winning 17-8-1. Now Bond takes a bold leap into the 1990's, and Dr. No faces off against Pierce Brosnan's GoldenEye.

    Title Track: GE
    Title Credits: GE (One of the absolute best in the series. You try representing the end of the Cold War with hot girls gyrating.)
    Main Villain: GE (Razor close, sorry Julius.)
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE (She strangles people with her thighs!)
    Overall Plot: GE (You can't beat "Bond's best friend is the villain.")
    Dialogue: GE (Another close one, but I just had to go with my gut.)
    Score: DN (Finally, it scrapes a win.)
    Settings: GE (DN just keeps eating these close losses.)
    Action: GE (You're not beating his dive off the dam, or the tank chase.)
    Humour: DN (Sure.)
    Cinematography: GE
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE (The movie's secret weapon, and I believe the best of any Bond.)
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    A 12-5 win for GoldenEye! It's only two spots above Dr. No in the old Bond rankings, but I do love that movie. Let's see how much you love them...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited June 2018 Posts: 45,489

    Title Track: GE
    Title Credits: GE
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: DN
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters:DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    15-2 for DN.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    edited June 2018 Posts: 538
    Title Track: DN (never was a fan of the GE song)
    Title Credits: GE
    Main Villain: GE (close, good villains)
    Main Bond Girl: DN (Honey's my No. 3 behind Vesper and Tracy)
    Henchman: GE (Xenia and Ourumov ... good tandem)
    Overall Plot: GE (Pretty weak scheme for a good villain in DN)
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: GE
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE (all of Bros' movies have good action. Tough to beat)
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: GE
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: DN (does way more with less in building tension...the spider alone does it)
    Minor Characters: DN (some really memorable characters (Trench, Quarrel, no Q though)
    Glamour: DN (easy)
    Bond Performance: DN (easy.. No. 1 did his No. 1 better than No. 5 did his No. 1)

    GE: 10
    DN: 7
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited June 2018 Posts: 2,722
    Title Track: DN (bond theme wins it. None of Brosnan era title songs standout to me. Although GE is the best of them. Turner is an iconic voice and the opening bars are great but the song never really soars.)

    Title Credits: GE (while the visuals have dated, they tell a great story.)

    Main Villain: DN (Alec Trevelyan is solid but DN is top shelf Bond villain.)

    Main Bond Girl: GE Natalya is one of the most underrated female leads in series. She is a n intelligent, resourceful character who propels the plot forward and contributes to the climax.)

    Henchman: GE (Within the series Xenia is fairly iconic and she's a fun, maniacal character.)

    Overall Plot: DN

    Dialogue: DN (GE can't compete with the deadly dialogue of DN.)

    Score: DN (not a fan of Serra's score)

    Settings: DN (I adore the way DN presents Fleming's Jamaica.)

    Action: GE (Dam dive, PTS, tank chase, climatic fight)

    Humour: DN (I like the deadpan, gallows humour of DN)

    Cinematography: DN

    Benign Bizarre: DN

    Suspense: GE

    Minor Characters: DN (as much as I like Zukovsky DN wins it with Quarrel, Leiter, Moneypenny and Bernard Lee as M.)

    Glamour: DN

    Bond Performance: DN

    DN : 12

    GE : 5


    I really enjoy GE. My favourite Brosnan film and highly rewatchable. Natalya is excellent, Campbell directs well and the story is bookended with two great action sequences. But DN wins this.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Title Track: GE
    Title Credits: GE
    Main Villain: GE (close)
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Overall Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE (both are quite good)
    Score: DN (both are bad though)
    Settings: GE (very diferent so they are difficult to compare, but GE is a bit more interesting to me)
    Action: GE (well there is no action in DN, is there?)
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: GE
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    GE wins over DN 13:4
  • Posts: 1,596
    Dr. No vs. Goldeneye

    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: GE
    Main Villain: tie
    Main Bond Girl: DN (barely, this could switch, I like Natalya)
    Henchman: GE
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: GE
    Settings: DN
    Action: GE
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: GE
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: tie (both great, imo)
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    Lots of difficult ones here. Couple ties where I couldn't really decide. Here's how it shook out:

    10 - 5 - 2 in favor of Dr. No, which is odd, as I think they're neck and neck in my most recent rankings. Both easily top 10.
  • DoctorNoDoctorNo USA-Maryland
    Posts: 755
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN (considered giving it to GE, but no)
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: DN (that's right; again considered GE, but the OTT bits poison it for me)
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters:DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN:17
    GE: 0

    DN is a classic. GE not even close.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: GE
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Overall Plot: GE
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: GE
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters:GE
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN:9
    GE: 8

  • NSGWNSGW London
    Posts: 299
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: GE
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters:DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 14
    GE: 3
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: GE
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: GE
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: GE
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters:DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 14
    GE: 3
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Title Track: GE
    Title Credits: GE
    Main Villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Overall Plot: GE
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: GE
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 4
    GE: 13
  • Posts: 3,336
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: GE
    Main Villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: GE
    Overall Plot: GE
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: GE
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 9
    GE: 8
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Title Track: DN - If it's the Bond theme it wins. If it's Underneath the Mango Tree it doesn't.

    Title Credits: GE - So refreshing to have the new blood of Kleinman after the stagnation of Binder's later years.

    Main Villain: DN - The perfect Bond villain template and Sean ventures into ham a bit too often for my liking.

    Main Bond Girl: GE - Honey just wears a bikini whereas Natalya is intelligent, resourceful, contributes to the story and wears a bikini.

    Henchman: GE - Professor Dent is suitably slimy, if a bit of a buffoon but Xenia is deliciously over the top fun and dies far too early.

    Overall Plot: DN - Solid adaption of Fleming is always difficult to beat and GE's script is serviceable but no more.

    Dialogue: DN - Just compare the two casino scenes. One is effortlessly cool and timeless. One is forced and cheesy.

    Score: DN - Not a massive Monty fan, but the Bond theme, Mango Tree and Jump Up Jamaica enough to see him home. Monty's mining disaster music is certainly bad but reaches nowhere near the depths plumbed with the someone-banging- two-pans-together version of the Bond theme used over the first GB in 6 years, the 70s porn music car chase and the musical version of Rory Kinnear with the end credits dirge. Awful.

    Settings: DN - Good to see Bond in Russia finally but the fact that it seems as if Pierce never left the back lot at Pinewood is quite apparent and jars when compared with DN's fabulous location work.

    Action: GE - DN badly outclassed here. GE has it beaten within 30 seconds.

    Humour: DN - I like 'How original' and the tie straightening is as wonderful here as it is awful in TWINE but there's just one too many cheesy lines whereas DN just nails the tone a Bond film should take with humour.

    Cinematography: DN - GE hasn't aged well but DN just keeps getting better.

    Benign Bizarre: DN - GE tries it's best - Xenia, Alec's face - but DN wins this as it is one of Fleming's weirder tales.

    Suspense: GE - Going to give GE the nod here for the pen scene with Boris at the end.

    Minor Characters: GE - A fantastic array of larger than life characters here who are all memorable.

    Glamour: DN - Again it's the casino scenes that decide it and I'm sorry but saying 'Bond, James Bond' is just cooler with a fag in your hand.

    Bond Performance: DN - Pierce makes a decent stab at being a Sean/Rog composite but there's no shame in losing to Sean at the peak of his powers (which contrary to what some might think is DN, FRWL and GF and not FRWL, GF and TB).

    DN: 11
    GE: 6

    GE lands a few decent blows but DN pretty comfortable in the end.
  • Posts: 230
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: GE
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Overall Plot: GE
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: GE
    Settings: GE
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 8
    GE: 9
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Title Track: DN (GE has a great song but the Bond theme....?)
    Title Credits: GE ( Best for many years)
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: GE (Xenia was a delicious villain)
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN 13

    GE 4

  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,097
    Title Track: DN
    Title Credits: DN
    Main Villain: DN
    Main Bond Girl: DN
    Henchman: DN
    Overall Plot: GE
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN
    Action: GE
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 15
    GE: 2
  • Posts: 4,044
    Title Track: GE
    Title Credits: GE
    Main Villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Overall Plot: GE
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: GE
    Settings: DN
    Action: GE
    Humour: DN
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: DN
    Minor Characters: DN
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 9
    GE: 8
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,118
    Massive GE fan but a 60’s Bond film always does the trick too. Let’s have a look.

    Title Track: GE
    Title Credits: GE
    Main Villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: DN
    Score: GE
    Settings: DN
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 7
    GE: 10
  • Posts: 654
    What exactly does "benign bizarre" mean? I've been giving it to DN because of things like mechanical dragons, metallic hands, tarantulas, 3 blind mice, Sisters Lily and Rose, etc. All these things are bizarre but hardly benign. GE has a truly bizarre character in Xenia but she is most certainly NOT benign!

    So why benign? Why not just bizarre? That seems more apt when it comes to Bond films. Even the smiling granny with the machine gun in GF isn't benign lol.
  • Still time for some final entries, everyone.
  • Posts: 654
    Any thoughts on my benign bizarre question?
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,571
    Title Track: GE (best one from the Broz era)
    Title Credits: GE (one of the best; a perfect update on classic Binder)
    Main Villain: DN (I like Alec, but No is the classic villain template for later films)
    Main Bond Girl: GE (hate to say it, but I never rated Honey. Natalya gets a lot to do, and must be in the Top 3 finest women in the entire series)
    Henchman: DN (I like my henchmen sinister, and Dent's as sinister as they come, despite lack of physicality)
    Overall Plot: GE (still, I like the simplicity of DN's plot- something we could use for B25)
    Dialogue: GE (only just)
    Score: DN
    Settings: DN (I prefer Bond globetrotting, but the Jamaican locales are used so well, you forget the entire mission is set there)
    Action: GE (bungee jump action; skydiving off bike into plane action; tank action; end fight action; inner thigh action...)
    Humour: GE (Zukovsky; handling Q's lunch)
    Cinematography: GE
    Benign Bizarre: DN (No's appearance; dragon tank)
    Suspense: DN (spider scene/s; hiding underwater from guards w/ dogs; Dent arriving at Taro's)
    Minor Characters: GE (seriously close here)
    Glamour: DN (Le Cercle; No's lair)
    Bond Performance: DN (not to say I dislike Pierce's performance, but we're talking Connery Bond here)

    DN: 8
    GE: 9

    That looks right. GE is a top 5 and DN easily top 10.
  • Posts: 3,336
    What exactly does "benign bizarre" mean? I've been giving it to DN because of things like mechanical dragons, metallic hands, tarantulas, 3 blind mice, Sisters Lily and Rose, etc. All these things are bizarre but hardly benign. GE has a truly bizarre character in Xenia but she is most certainly NOT benign!

    So why benign? Why not just bizarre? That seems more apt when it comes to Bond films. Even the smiling granny with the machine gun in GF isn't benign lol.

    Lame category in my opinion.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    Title Track: GE
    Title Credits: GE
    Main Villain: GE
    Main Bond Girl: GE
    Henchman: GE
    Overall Plot: DN
    Dialogue: GE
    Score: GE
    Settings: DN
    Action: GE
    Humour: GE
    Cinematography: DN
    Benign Bizarre: DN
    Suspense: GE
    Minor Characters: GE
    Glamour: DN
    Bond Performance: DN

    DN: 6
    GE: 11
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