Who should/could be a Bond actor?

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  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    QBranch wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Below is an image of the stuntman with a prosthetic head for SF.

    5091804eecad04c25400001d-1136-669.jpg
    When you can't afford the real thing...

    EAc4SyW.png
    I've just been reviewing Bon's tests. It seems you've past... by the skin of you're face.
    Your back on active service. Congratulations, Bon.

    Thank you, Emma.
  • edited July 2018 Posts: 12,837
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'm surprised how Cavill seems popular. It wasn't the case say a year ago from what I remember.

    I was thinking that as well. The MI hype is probably the main reason but I also think that the general negativity around the Craig era we have at the minute (bought on by a divisive film followed by a long gap for fans to dwell on it) has made a difference. It's made some fans pine for something different to what we have at the minute and Cavill seems like the perfect guy to deliver a return to old fashioned formula driven Bond.

    The problem I think is he isn't perfect at all, for any sort of Bond. Just don't get what people see in him outside of looking the part. Could anyone tell me what's so great about him with words instead of just posting pictures and videos? Because yeah we get it he looks like Bond. But why would he be good, what would he be bringing to the table. Or even pointing me to something he's in where he shows some real presence, charm and charisma would be helpful. Someone said above that his role MI is a nice audition for Bond so to be fair I'll have to check that out, but I feel like UNCLE was his perfect opportunity to do just that and he blew it in my eyes. The guy was like a robot. He'd be a really boring, bland choice I think.

    I really do think that this thread has devolved into being more about looks than anything else. I've seen some cool, interesting names immediately shot down by members who I'm pretty sure haven't seen them in anything because they don't look like a generic Bond actor, even though Craig broke the mould there years ago. Meanwhile we're apparently sold on Cavill based on some gifs and photos of him in a tux.

    And yeah I'm well aware that I'm being a miserable bastard and ruining the fun but there's been plenty of negativity (direct or backhanded, e.g. using praise of MI as an opportunity to shit on the current era of Bond) from the other side on various threads too.

    To be fair the recent crop of Bond films deserve to be crapped on because complacency has set in incredibly deep and other films; and supposedly lesser films are doing a much better job at what Bond used to and should be the BEST at.

    Also I don't think it's so much the long gaps or Craig being too long in the role that have people frustrated. The MI films in 22 years only have 6 films with the same leading actor who does more and more and MORE with each subsequent film and they're brining that all important x factor. Just look at the last 3 Bond films; I don't care how much money they each made but with the talent and money invested into these films a better job should have been done. MI:Fallout alone imo just obliterated if any the modicum of credibility those films may have had. The Bond films need to be better. Much better and it's not a big ask.

    The last two have been great as far as I'm concerned. And even ignoring the money it made SF got great reviews, award nominations and had most of us raving at the time. There was such a buzz around it. I know everyone has their opinion and it's all subjective but surely that kind of success is indicative of at least some sort of quality or entertainment value.

    I think the long gap has definitely played a part, coupled with how SP went down. I liked it but a lot of people didn't, and instead of a film that acts as a course correction getting people back on side, we've had a long gap giving those who didn't like it nothing but time to dwell on it. People loved Skyfall. Fans loved it. Critics loved it. The public went out in droves to go and see it. If they'd capitalised on that success more and produced a couple of follow ups that were better recieved than SP was, or if Bond 25 was out last year and was better recieved than SP was, then I genuinely don't think we'd be seeing half the negativity we are now.

    But at the end of the day that negativity is just the mark left by the latest film (made worse by there being a gap instead of another film to get people back on side), and there have always been good and bad Bond films. I don't think it means that the series as a whole is in any real trouble, that the Craig era as a whole hasn't been good or that EON are complacent.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    I throughly enjoyed Skyfall and left the theater so pumped following the The last scene in M’s office. Bond was recharged, recommitted and ready for action.
    I left SPECTRE trying to convince myself that I liked it, but in fact felt empty.
  • edited July 2018 Posts: 12,837
    talos7 wrote: »
    I throughly enjoyed Skyfall and left the theater so pumped following the The last scene in M’s office. Bond was recharged, recommitted and ready for action.
    I left SPECTRE trying to convince myself that I liked it, but in fact felt empty.

    I actually preferred Spectre but I definitely think you're in the majority. After Skyfall came out there seemed to be a proper buzz on here, that ending in M's office promised this whole new exciting era. Instead we've just had one divisive follow up.

    In the end though I think Bond is fine. I think the current atmosphere on this site is just because the last one wasn't very popular with fans and that reaction has just sort of been left lingering for the last couple of years. But the next one is looking really promising (Danny Boyle can do no wrong). I think Bond 25 will be a much more well recieved film, which should calm things down a bit on here.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    +1
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited July 2018 Posts: 5,185
    talos7 wrote: »
    I throughly enjoyed Skyfall and left the theater so pumped following the The last scene in M’s office. Bond was recharged, recommitted and ready for action.
    I left SPECTRE trying to convince myself that I liked it, but in fact felt empty.

    +1 Thats exactly how i felt too.
    I left Skyfall with a huge grin on my face that stayed there for days.
    After Spectre though i was scratching my head for a week... "wtf was that?" i really wanted to like it, i hyped myself for a year in advance, flew to Rome and London for the first time JUST to visit the shooting locations.
    I was thinking this MUST be better than Skyfall, or at least AS good, all the same people are involved, how could it not be? I am fairly certain that B25 will be better though. There will be no rehashs this time. I am expecting something completely different.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I'm surprised how Cavill seems popular. It wasn't the case say a year ago from what I remember.

    I was thinking that as well. The MI hype is probably the main reason but I also think that the general negativity around the Craig era we have at the minute (bought on by a divisive film followed by a long gap for fans to dwell on it) has made a difference. It's made some fans pine for something different to what we have at the minute and Cavill seems like the perfect guy to deliver a return to old fashioned formula driven Bond.

    The problem I think is he isn't perfect at all, for any sort of Bond. Just don't get what people see in him outside of looking the part. Could anyone tell me what's so great about him with words instead of just posting pictures and videos? Because yeah we get it he looks like Bond. But why would he be good, what would he be bringing to the table. Or even pointing me to something he's in where he shows some real presence, charm and charisma would be helpful. Someone said above that his role MI is a nice audition for Bond so to be fair I'll have to check that out, but I feel like UNCLE was his perfect opportunity to do just that and he blew it in my eyes. The guy was like a robot. He'd be a really boring, bland choice I think.

    I really do think that this thread has devolved into being more about looks than anything else. I've seen some cool, interesting names immediately shot down by members who I'm pretty sure haven't seen them in anything because they don't look like a generic Bond actor, even though Craig broke the mould there years ago. Meanwhile we're apparently sold on Cavill based on some gifs and photos of him in a tux.

    And yeah I'm well aware that I'm being a miserable bastard and ruining the fun but there's been plenty of negativity (direct or backhanded, e.g. using praise of MI as an opportunity to shit on the current era of Bond) from the other side on various threads too.

    To be fair the recent crop of Bond films deserve to be crapped on because complacency has set in incredibly deep and other films; and supposedly lesser films are doing a much better job at what Bond used to and should be the BEST at.

    Also I don't think it's so much the long gaps or Craig being too long in the role that have people frustrated. The MI films in 22 years only have 6 films with the same leading actor who does more and more and MORE with each subsequent film and they're brining that all important x factor. Just look at the last 3 Bond films; I don't care how much money they each made but with the talent and money invested into these films a better job should have been done. MI:Fallout alone imo just obliterated if any the modicum of credibility those films may have had. The Bond films need to be better. Much better and it's not a big ask.

    The last two have been great as far as I'm concerned. And even ignoring the money it made SF got great reviews, award nominations and had most of us raving at the time. There was such a buzz around it. I know everyone has their opinion and it's all subjective but surely that kind of success is indicative of at least some sort of quality or entertainment value.

    I think the long gap has definitely played a part, coupled with how SP went down. I liked it but a lot of people didn't, and instead of a film that acts as a course correction getting people back on side, we've had a long gap giving those who didn't like it nothing but time to dwell on it. People loved Skyfall. Fans loved it. Critics loved it. The public went out in droves to go and see it. If they'd capitalised on that success more and produced a couple of follow ups that were better recieved than SP was, or if Bond 25 was out last year and was better recieved than SP was, then I genuinely don't think we'd be seeing half the negativity we are now.

    I don't doubt the last 2 Bond films has it's fans and SF was definitely a huge event but again, EoN always get complacent when they see a bit of success and then drop the ball. Ghost Protocol came out in 2011, Rogue Nation in 2015 and now Fallout in 2018...look at those gaps for the latest 3 MI films alone. The quality and creativity is consistently high despite the gaps and I just can't excuse Bond for his comparative lack and overall uninspired execution. Compare the plane and car chase in SP OR ANY VEHICULAR CHASE In a Bond film to the vehicular chases in Fallout...Bond doesn't come remotely close to being able to compete and there's no reason for this to be happening. I'm obviously only speaking for myself but if EoN dont feel inspired or feel shaken and stirred by Fallout then nothing will and we're left to just talking about how great Bond is because of irate long cinematic legacy. Screw that, it's a case of, what have you done for me lately?

    I'm seeing Fallout again tomorrow.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Whilst he's not the greatest actor, I do feel Henry Cavill has the right look and can pull off the charm for Bond. He's certainly fit enough and the perfect age.
    After getting down to the final contenders for CR you'd have to think he's remained on EONs radar. Similar to Moore, Dalton and Brosnan in the past.

    Depending in which direction the series goes in with the next actor, it could (and probably would) be tailored to the actors strengths.
    I'll take Cavill over many of the so called candidates, Turner, Hardy, Norton, Elba, et al.
    I'd still be happy with Hiddleston as Bond or Matthew Goode, but I fear the latter is maybe a little old to debut now.
    I'd be surprised if Cavill isn't at least on EON's short list. Time will tell.

  • edited July 2018 Posts: 3,333
    talos7 wrote: »
    Ford played Indiana Jones and Han Solo and Jack Ryan.

    Stallone played Rocky and Rambo.

    Cruise is doing Ethan Hunt and Maverick

    Of course an actor can successfully portray yup Ivonic characters. That is a non-issue

    Sadly, you are wrong.

    Ford played Indiana Jones and Han Solo and Jack Ryan.
    Both Indy and Solo were original characters that Ford played originated. There was no expectation that the roles would become iconic. It's not as though someone else played those roles first and Ford is another actor playing the role.

    Stallone played Rocky and Rambo.
    Once again, both are ogrinial characters that became iconic due to Stallone's performances

    Cruise is doing Ethan Hunt and Maverick
    Hunt was an original character in the Mission Impossible films and Maverick was an original character that became iconic as a result of Cruise.

    The question here is entirely different. Both Bond and Superman are well-established characters.

    By your logic, we could have had Harrison Ford play Bond.

    So where does it say an actor that’s played a previously established “iconic” role cannot play another? Is it the 11th Commandment that Moses The Lawgiver forgot to deliver, or maybe it’s chiselled in stone somewhere in the hallowed Hollywood hills? You must point me to your source.

    You must’ve been been in a right tizz when Chris Evans was cast as Captain America, especially after him having already played the “iconic” Johnny Storm/The Human Torch in The Fantastic Four. I won’t even bother to mention Ben Affleck having played Daredevil before Batman. I’m sure that you’ve got a lame excuse up your sleeve as to why that’s entirely acceptable, though.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    @doubleoego you are completely correct in your current criticisms of Bond. I see many waving away Mission Impossible, thinking it is just a imitator, and making out like you're some kind of traitor for prefering MI right now, and feeling that Bond has to keep up. Well, you know what, I also prefer Bourne Identity to Die Another Day. I doubt few would disagree with that, and the whole basis of Craig's apparent genius in the role was that they saw they were on the back foot, that Bourne was giving the audience something fresh, and they reacted. Infact, every few years they've had to react when new (and old) challengers have stepped into the ring. Remember when they thought Diehard was a threat also, and Arnie films like "True Lies". Well Bond reacted back then and blew them out of the water with Goldeneye, right? So why are we supposed to bury our heads in the sand this time. Why are we supposed to keep treading over the same groundlike it's still 2006 and the era of gritty reboots and origin stories. Can't we just accept that the audience has moved on and that it's time Bond does the same. It really does feel like this four year gap could be quite damaging to the prospects of Bond 25, because it's becoming more and more obvious as time passes just how left behind Bond is becoming.
  • Posts: 15,124
    talos7 wrote: »
    I throughly enjoyed Skyfall and left the theater so pumped following the The last scene in M’s office. Bond was recharged, recommitted and ready for action.
    I left SPECTRE trying to convince myself that I liked it, but in fact felt empty.

    I actually preferred Spectre but I definitely think you're in the majority. After Skyfall came out there seemed to be a proper buzz on here, that ending in M's office promised this whole new exciting era. Instead we've just had one divisive follow up.

    In the end though I think Bond is fine. I think the current atmosphere on this site is just because the last one wasn't very popular with fans and that reaction has just sort of been left lingering for the last couple of years. But the next one is looking really promising (Danny Boyle can do no wrong). I think Bond 25 will be a much more well recieved film, which should calm things down a bit on here.

    I actually enjoyed SP more myself although I think SF is the better movie and I know it has its problems.

    People wishing a different direction with Boyle might be disappointed. I think we'll have a more careful Mendes (which I'm happy with) or a more reckless (which I'm worried about).
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Whilst I'm actually looking forward to having a new Bond in Bond26, I'm also happy to see Daniel Craig return for a fifth outing. He's been a very good Bond. He's very popular with the fans and the general audience alike. Proven by the box office from his four previous Bond films.
    Bond films are unlike any other franchise in cinema. We're approaching 60 years of the screen Bond, something now other series can match as far as regular basis within the same production team/family. Only six actors have played the role thus far. It's unique.
    I'm a huge fan of the Mission Impossible series, and many other series as well. But none of them work like Bond. Bond is an event, he's part of popular culture. You don't here real life villains or events being like something from a Mission Impossible film. But people, cars or situations are often referred to as being like something from a James Bond film.
    The imitators come and go, but Bond outlasts all of them.
  • Posts: 15,124
    RC7 wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I can understand those who think he is somewhat wooden and limited as an actor, I myself am not convinced he would be the right choice for Bond.

    However, the fact is that he was the only one beside Craig who was seriously considered for CR and ended up second out of 200 actors. Martin Campbell and the others obviously saw some potential in him, which is why I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    Looks-wise, he certainly is handsome, but perhaps too handsome. With that square jaw, he definitely looks more like Superman than Bond.

    When the time comes for a new Bond, I won't be surprised if they choose him since there aren't many good candidates out there.

    It's also very possible that Cavill was then seen as talented but inexperienced and did not develop his talent as years went. The reasons why he was a contender in 2005 may not exist anymore.

    This is exactly the case in my opinion. Spot on.

    I used to think Cavill would be the heir apparent after Craig. That he needed only a bit of experience and maturity he then lacked. I was also hoping he'd succeed Craig if he had been that promising so young. That was ten years ago or so. Now he's today's flavour in this thread but that's it.

    I suspect if the pool of candidates was good Craig would be done already.
  • edited July 2018 Posts: 1,661
    Superintendent wrote:
    Looks-wise, he certainly is handsome, but perhaps too handsome. With that square jaw, he definitely looks more like Superman than Bond.

    I think the earlier Bond actors were more handsome than Henry Cavill so I don't think he's too handsome for Bond. I think that's a silly comment.

    film-goldfinger-1964-sean-connery-on-location-james-bond-007_a-G-4157753-4990875.jpg

    Sean Connery was a classically attractive, rugged chap.

    Timothy Dalton:

    a14d0741fc8821e08332d15e57c1fe25.jpg

    Same was true of Moore, Lazenby, Brosnan.

    The notion Bond isn't meant to be too handsome is seen through the prism of Craig's casting. Henry Cavill is not too handsome for Bond but his acting ability may be too limited for Bond. Anyway, as seen by the popularity of Craig's Bond, I doubt the audience care that much if Bond is Henry Cavill type handsome or previous Bond actor type handsome. The box office results prove that.

    People on forums get hung up about the look ("this guy is not handsome enough or tall enough!") because we like a degree of continuity but the average Joe Shmoe film goers couldn't care less. In some respects that is a sad reality but that's the way it is. Craig's casting broke that continuity so there's no reason to think Henry Cavill, a more conventionally handsome man, has a huge advantage over less attractive men up for the role of Bond. I can't see Barbara Broccoli swooning over the likes of Cavill or some other handsome new actor and rushing to give them the part. Could be wrong, of course!


  • Posts: 15,124
    I think what people mean is that other Bond were more manly. Cavill often appears handsome in a "pretty" way. And I'm not sagging off Cavill: back when he did The Tudors I thought he looked very manly for a man his age. Now he often looks like he's made of plastic. No idea why.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Compared to every other casting choice made thus far, Cavill does look manly and handsome in a manly way.
  • Posts: 1,548
    As long as we dont get Mr overrated Fassbender I will be happy.
  • 00Agent00Agent Any man who drinks Dom Perignon '52 can't be all bad.
    edited July 2018 Posts: 5,185
    LeChiffre wrote: »
    As long as we dont get Mr overrated Fassbender I will be happy.
    +1
    Great actor, good looks, but wrong for Bond imo.
    He would make the level of Drama you saw in the Craig films look tame in comparisson.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    G
    @doubleoego you are completely correct in your current criticisms of Bond. I see many waving away Mission Impossible, thinking it is just a imitator, and making out like you're some kind of traitor for prefering MI right now, and feeling that Bond has to keep up. Well, you know what, I also prefer Bourne Identity to Die Another Day. I doubt few would disagree with that, and the whole basis of Craig's apparent genius in the role was that they saw they were on the back foot, that Bourne was giving the audience something fresh, and they reacted. Infact, every few years they've had to react when new (and old) challengers have stepped into the ring. Remember when they thought Diehard was a threat also, and Arnie films like "True Lies". Well Bond reacted back then and blew them out of the water with Goldeneye, right? So why are we supposed to bury our heads in the sand this time. Why are we supposed to keep treading over the same groundlike it's still 2006 and the era of gritty reboots and origin stories. Can't we just accept that the audience has moved on and that it's time Bond does the same. It really does feel like this four year gap could be quite damaging to the prospects of Bond 25, because it's becoming more and more obvious as time passes just how left behind Bond is becoming.

    What can you do about it, though?

    As I see it there are two options.

    A) Draw some optimism from the hiring of a unique director, with a new raft of department heads and an enthused crew, or...

    B) Continue to bitch and moan about something you have zero control over.

    If they’d hired Mendes and announced B25 was to be the completion of a trilogy, I could understand the continued frustration. As it is, while I see several issues you and others have raised that I do actually understand, I see no reason, at this juncture, to be quite so down on everything.
  • Posts: 6,601
    He will be down on everything - unless Turner is cast.
  • Posts: 1,548
    Turner is too much of a pretty boy. Needs to be a man's man who looks like he can kill.
  • edited July 2018 Posts: 12,837
    RC7 wrote: »
    G
    @doubleoego you are completely correct in your current criticisms of Bond. I see many waving away Mission Impossible, thinking it is just a imitator, and making out like you're some kind of traitor for prefering MI right now, and feeling that Bond has to keep up. Well, you know what, I also prefer Bourne Identity to Die Another Day. I doubt few would disagree with that, and the whole basis of Craig's apparent genius in the role was that they saw they were on the back foot, that Bourne was giving the audience something fresh, and they reacted. Infact, every few years they've had to react when new (and old) challengers have stepped into the ring. Remember when they thought Diehard was a threat also, and Arnie films like "True Lies". Well Bond reacted back then and blew them out of the water with Goldeneye, right? So why are we supposed to bury our heads in the sand this time. Why are we supposed to keep treading over the same groundlike it's still 2006 and the era of gritty reboots and origin stories. Can't we just accept that the audience has moved on and that it's time Bond does the same. It really does feel like this four year gap could be quite damaging to the prospects of Bond 25, because it's becoming more and more obvious as time passes just how left behind Bond is becoming.

    What can you do about it, though?

    As I see it there are two options.

    A) Draw some optimism from the hiring of a unique director, with a new raft of department heads and an enthused crew, or...

    B) Continue to bitch and moan about something you have zero control over.

    If they’d hired Mendes and announced B25 was to be the completion of a trilogy, I could understand the continued frustration. As it is, while I see several issues you and others have raised that I do actually understand, I see no reason, at this juncture, to be quite so down on everything.

    Yeah I was firmly in the negative camp (loved the last two but was really hoping for a fresh start rather than another Craig film) but the Boyle announcement has won me round. I don't get why we're talking about how the Bond films need to be better when so far everything is shaping up nicely for the next one. Lets wait and see how 25 turns out before complaining about the current state of things.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I'm glad to read the positive comments on Henry Cavill on this thread. He was really good in MI: Fallout, which I just got back from. I'm sold on him after seeing that film, and think he could make a wonderful James Bond. He's the right age, has the right build, and seems to have developed as an actor. If EON choose to take us back to the lighter and more cinematic larger than life Bond films of yore (which I, perhaps more than anyone else, want them to after what we've endured over the past decade or so), then I think he could nail it. Having said that, I don't think they will cast him, as his profile is a bit high after Superman and now this, but one never knows. If by some off chance they do, he will have a supporter in me.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Having seen MI:Fallout last night, I feel Henry Cavill could be a potential Bond #7.
    He's got the ability to become Bond. Might not be the most fantastic actor, but Bond is Bond, it's not Shakespeare. He's got Bondian qualities, and is the right age as well.
    I'd be quite ok if Cavill was picked to be the next James Bond.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    Benny wrote: »
    He's got the ability to become Bond. Might not be the most fantastic actor, but Bond is Bond, it's not Shakespeare. He's got Bondian qualities, and is the right age as well.

    Well said, and I believe all of this to be true of Aidan Turner as well.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Benny wrote: »
    Having seen MI:Fallout last night, I feel Henry Cavill could be a potential Bond #7.
    He's got the ability to become Bond. Might not be the most fantastic actor, but Bond is Bond, it's not Shakespeare. He's got Bondian qualities, and is the right age as well.
    I'd be quite ok if Cavill was picked to be the next James Bond.
    +1. Glad to have you on board with us, Benny. Well said.
  • I said a few times that SP seemed like a good ending and that I wanted a fresh start, but if Cavill is a genuine contender then thank god we're getting another Craig film.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited August 2018 Posts: 8,216
    Actually, the ending of SP, Bond riding off with a beautiful woman, was a beautifully done; it’s a shame the rest of the film that preceded it was not.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited August 2018 Posts: 8,399
    talos7 wrote: »
    Actually, the ending of SP, Bond riding off with a beautiful woman, was a beautifully done; it’s a shame the rest of the film that preceded it was not.

    Yes, it would be a shame to throw away an ok ending in order to chase that "end on a high" mentality. I can't help but think that knowing this is the end for Craig, they will try too hard to drill home the sense finality, and forget to prioritize making a solid Bond flick.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Moving from Craig to Cavill is like Ferguson to Moyes. Count me as one of the few who thinks acting ability is actually reasonably important.
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