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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,159
    peter wrote: »
    Ugh just caught up with some of the comments with the Vesper bashing/Bond-beach-romance disses.

    Too bad for you guys.

    I've always felt their romance was handled with adult gloves, from the script, to the actors, the music and the scenery.

    Sometimes I wonder if some on this site ever had a truly romantic relationship with someone? One that goes beyond skin-deep infatuation (although I also wonder if some of the readers ever had anyone reciprocate their infatuations? That would explain a lot of the pseudo-macho talk some revert to while discussing Vesper, or the other bond girls).

    Whatever the case may be-- different strokes, I guess. As for me-- love everything about Vesper and Bond.

    Same here.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    jobo wrote: »
    Btw: Why is it that Bach seems to be always overlooked when examples of bad actresses in Bond are being listed? Ekland, Richards, Roberts, Hatcher and even Berry are commonly mentioned as the horror examples of terrible Bond girl performances (and rightly so...). But why is Bach given a pass? Honestly, I would be so blunt to claim that if you put any of those names mentioned in the role of Triple X, the result would have been better! They might have been bad and annoying in their roles, but at least they were occationaly capable of reading a line with a minimum level of confidence, and at least attempt some minor acting. Bach is incapable of that through out the entire film!

    Are people actually being fooled by the script writers' minor attempt to give the character some superficioul importance? Are people just aware that it's a nonsensical fantasy story to begin with, so they don't care? Or are they so blinded by nostalgia towards Spy that they cannot come around to see it's obvious flaws?

    Well, Triple X is an obvious candidate for the worst Bond girl in my book. The character is completely useless! Remove her from the plot and it would make absolutely no difference (well, Bond wouldn't have to risk his life to save her at the end of the film...). The attempt, however serious it was, to make her seem like a competent agent is an hilarious joke! To make matters worse she has absolutely no charm or charisma either.

    I cant argue with that,at least Jinx could hold her own and was shown to do so in a few scenes.

    Triple X did Jack shit when you look at it properly.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Well then, I suppose my controversial opinion is that I actually like Barbara's performance!

    I certainly don't think of her as a great actress, but I think she plays the role with a certain detachment and coldness that I would expect from a Soviet agent. Perhaps her limitations as an actress actually helped her in this regard.

    Anyway, it's part of the charm of TSWLM (for me) and I couldn't imagine anyone else as XXX, but I do understand how some might feel differently.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Roadphill wrote: »
    I rather liked the romance between Bond and XXX in TSWLM too, it was subtle, but they seemed to have a stronger 'bond' than in most of the films. At least until she questions him about her dead lover.
    Agreed.
    pachazo wrote: »
    Well then, I suppose my controversial opinion is that I actually like Barbara's performance!

    I certainly don't think of her as a great actress, but I think she plays the role with a certain detachment and coldness that I would expect from a Soviet agent. Perhaps her limitations as an actress actually helped her in this regard.

    Anyway, it's part of the charm of TSWLM (for me) and I couldn't imagine anyone else as XXX, but I do understand how some might feel differently.
    This is precisely how I feel about it. I think her limitations actually work very well in this case, and help her portray that icy coldness which they allude to metaphorically in the film. Glad I enjoy her performance, because it's one of my favourite films (and not just Bond films).
  • MooreFunMooreFun
    Posts: 385
    People miss Barbara Bach because there’s a far more handsome craft in Spy. One with such lovely lines.


    Personally, I feel like Yeoh gets missed in the critiques, perhaps because people focus on Hatcher. I get the feeling she liked the action part of her role, but not the romance side; to me, there is zero chemistry from her toward Brosnan. It’s very flat and almost contemptuous.


  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    The way I look at it,i would say overall the balance between good Bond girls and bad ones is probably only about 60/40 in favour of good,not a big difference.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    What amazes me is the image of Bond girls vs. what I see as the reality. They have a bad reputation in general due to when these films were introduced to the public and the imagery, but I think some of that reputation is unfounded. Many of the early 'girls' have grit and are quite brave. Those are attributes that are sometimes forgotten. Sure there are also some silly ones, but after 50 + years I think we've had quite a lot of decent variety, which is how it is in life as well.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    The way I look at it,i would say overall the balance between good Bond girls and bad ones is probably only about 60/40 in favour of good,not a big difference.
    I'd say even higher. I like most of them personally.
    MooreFun wrote: »
    Personally, I feel like Yeoh gets missed in the critiques, perhaps because people focus on Hatcher. I get the feeling she liked the action part of her role, but not the romance side; to me, there is zero chemistry from her toward Brosnan. It’s very flat and almost contemptuous.
    That's one of my major criticisms of that film. It's seems to be far more action oriented on the balance scale and I would have preferred just a little more of a romantic flavour. The Hatcher thing didn't work for me, and perhaps that's why they de-emphasized Yeoh, because they didn't want it to conflict with Paris's importance to Bond.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    edited January 2019 Posts: 16,182
    pachazo wrote: »
    Well then, I suppose my controversial opinion is that I actually like Barbara's performance!

    I certainly don't think of her as a great actress, but I think she plays the role with a certain detachment and coldness that I would expect from a Soviet agent. Perhaps her limitations as an actress actually helped her in this regard.

    Anyway, it's part of the charm of TSWLM (for me) and I couldn't imagine anyone else as XXX, but I do understand how some might feel differently.

    Well said. Barbara Bach easily ranks in my top 5 favorite leading Bond girls. Easily.
    She icy and detached enough to make her intriguing. I wouldn't want agent XXX to have a warm personality of someone like, say Kara.
    I also think her performance during the scene where Bond confesses to probably having killed Sergei spot on. I don't think it would have been necessary to have her go into hysterics or start screaming like Stacey. In this case less was more.
  • BT3366BT3366
    Posts: 1,921
    bondjames wrote: »
    What amazes me is the image of Bond girls vs. what I see as the reality. They have a bad reputation in general due to when these films were introduced to the public and the imagery, but I think some of that reputation is unfounded. Many of the early 'girls' have grit and are quite brave. Those are attributes that are sometimes forgotten. Sure there are also some silly ones, but after 50 + years I think we've had quite a lot of decent variety, which is how it is in life as well.
    Right. There's often a very narrow view of these women based on a few examples from a different time in the world. But how does one overlook a Honey Ryder, who overcame things in her life that there are movements against now and pulls a knife on Bond right in the first film?

    You have a tough, independent women in GF who don't just give in to Bond, although Pussy's easy switch of allegiances in both the film and book are flawed. It's Tatiana and Domino who save Bond at the end of their films. Kissy and Aki are competent agents first and Bond girls second. Fiona goes without saying.

    It's interesting that it's in the early-mid '70s, when films introduced stronger female parts, that the women's roles get worse in Bond in my view. Tiffany goes from tough to daffy, Solitare is a helpless heroine with a few touches of independence and Goodnight is like somebody from a Benny Hill skit.

    By the same token, the "These are Bond women, not girls" of the past 3 decades became a new cliché in itself. One of my least favorite examples is Pam Bouvier going from hard-as-nails tough girl to jealous high schooler throughout LTK. Do I have to mention Christmas Jones?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2019 Posts: 23,883
    BT3366 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What amazes me is the image of Bond girls vs. what I see as the reality. They have a bad reputation in general due to when these films were introduced to the public and the imagery, but I think some of that reputation is unfounded. Many of the early 'girls' have grit and are quite brave. Those are attributes that are sometimes forgotten. Sure there are also some silly ones, but after 50 + years I think we've had quite a lot of decent variety, which is how it is in life as well.
    Right. There's often a very narrow view of these women based on a few examples from a different time in the world. But how does one overlook a Honey Ryder, who overcame things in her life that there are movements against now and pulls a knife on Bond right in the first film?

    You have a tough, independent women in GF who don't just give in to Bond, although Pussy's easy switch of allegiances in both the film and book are flawed. It's Tatiana and Domino who save Bond at the end of their films. Kissy and Aki are competent agents first and Bond girls second. Fiona goes without saying.

    It's interesting that it's in the early-mid '70s, when films introduced stronger female parts, that the women's roles get worse in Bond in my view. Tiffany goes from tough to daffy, Solitare is a helpless heroine with a few touches of independence and Goodnight is like somebody from a Benny Hill skit.

    By the same token, the "These are Bond women, not girls" of the past 3 decades became a new cliché in itself. One of my least favorite examples is Pam Bouvier going from hard-as-nails tough girl to jealous high schooler throughout LTK. Do I have to mention Christmas Jones?
    I agree with your points and observations.

    Honey is who came to my mind when I wrote my earlier post, but there's also Pussy as you noted. Sure they have these nutty names and some are revealed in bikinis, but they are strong characters in some ways.

    I also agree on the 70s. Hamilton's last few films in particular are where most of the silly 'girls' show up. Then going towards the late 70s they get more competent again - Anya/Holy are far ahead of their time and serve as a template for spy women in other series even today.

    Definitely agree on the women not girls, this time it's different cliche. It's annoying. Show me, and stop telling me over and over again.
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    pachazo wrote: »
    Well then, I suppose my controversial opinion is that I actually like Barbara's performance!

    I certainly don't think of her as a great actress, but I think she plays the role with a certain detachment and coldness that I would expect from a Soviet agent. Perhaps her limitations as an actress actually helped her in this regard.

    Anyway, it's part of the charm of TSWLM (for me) and I couldn't imagine anyone else as XXX, but I do understand how some might feel differently.

    Well said. Barbara Bach easily ranks in my top 5 favorite leading Bond girls. Easily.
    She icy and detached enough to make her intriguing. I wouldn't want agent XXX to have a warm personality of someone like, say Kara.
    I also think her performance during the scene where Bond confesses to probably having killed Sergei spot on. I don't think it would have been necessary to have her go into hysterics or start screaming like Stacey. In this case less was more.
    She has some very good moments.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,159
    bondjames wrote: »
    What amazes me is the image of Bond girls vs. what I see as the reality. They have a bad reputation in general due to when these films were introduced to the public and the imagery, but I think some of that reputation is unfounded. Many of the early 'girls' have grit and are quite brave. Those are attributes that are sometimes forgotten. Sure there are also some silly ones, but after 50 + years I think we've had quite a lot of decent variety, which is how it is in life as well.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    The way I look at it,i would say overall the balance between good Bond girls and bad ones is probably only about 60/40 in favour of good,not a big difference.
    I'd say even higher. I like most of them personally.
    MooreFun wrote: »
    Personally, I feel like Yeoh gets missed in the critiques, perhaps because people focus on Hatcher. I get the feeling she liked the action part of her role, but not the romance side; to me, there is zero chemistry from her toward Brosnan. It’s very flat and almost contemptuous.
    That's one of my major criticisms of that film. It's seems to be far more action oriented on the balance scale and I would have preferred just a little more of a romantic flavour. The Hatcher thing didn't work for me, and perhaps that's why they de-emphasized Yeoh, because they didn't want it to conflict with Paris's importance to Bond.

    Given that Paris Carver was a glorified cameo, the result was maybe the weakest pool of Bond girls in the franchise. One that was too much of an action chick/Bond's equal and one who was quickly forgotten after her death. I wish the Danish teacher had had more screen time. She was the best of the three!
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,162
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What amazes me is the image of Bond girls vs. what I see as the reality. They have a bad reputation in general due to when these films were introduced to the public and the imagery, but I think some of that reputation is unfounded. Many of the early 'girls' have grit and are quite brave. Those are attributes that are sometimes forgotten. Sure there are also some silly ones, but after 50 + years I think we've had quite a lot of decent variety, which is how it is in life as well.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    The way I look at it,i would say overall the balance between good Bond girls and bad ones is probably only about 60/40 in favour of good,not a big difference.
    I'd say even higher. I like most of them personally.
    MooreFun wrote: »
    Personally, I feel like Yeoh gets missed in the critiques, perhaps because people focus on Hatcher. I get the feeling she liked the action part of her role, but not the romance side; to me, there is zero chemistry from her toward Brosnan. It’s very flat and almost contemptuous.
    That's one of my major criticisms of that film. It's seems to be far more action oriented on the balance scale and I would have preferred just a little more of a romantic flavour. The Hatcher thing didn't work for me, and perhaps that's why they de-emphasized Yeoh, because they didn't want it to conflict with Paris's importance to Bond.

    Given that Paris Carver was a glorified cameo, the result was maybe the weakest pool of Bond girls in the franchise. One that was too much of an action chick/Bond's equal and one who was quickly forgotten after her death. I wish the Danish teacher had had more screen time. She was the best of the three!

    I agree. The Danish teacher was a highlight of the film.

    I, for one, absolutely loved Pam in LTK. The jealous act was somewhat unnecessary but overall I thought she made one of the most competent Bond girls.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    pachazo wrote: »
    Well then, I suppose my controversial opinion is that I actually like Barbara's performance!

    I certainly don't think of her as a great actress, but I think she plays the role with a certain detachment and coldness that I would expect from a Soviet agent. Perhaps her limitations as an actress actually helped her in this regard.

    Anyway, it's part of the charm of TSWLM (for me) and I couldn't imagine anyone else as XXX, but I do understand how some might feel differently.

    Well said. Barbara Bach easily ranks in my top 5 favorite leading Bond girls. Easily.
    She icy and detached enough to make her intriguing. I wouldn't want agent XXX to have a warm personality of someone like, say Kara.
    I also think her performance during the scene where Bond confesses to probably having killed Sergei spot on. I don't think it would have been necessary to have her go into hysterics or start screaming like Stacey. In this case less was more.


    But acting "icy and detached" also requires a bare minimum of effort. One of the main challenges in any acting role is to look beliavable as the character you are supposed to portray. I have no issue with Triple X being portrayed coldly, the problem is that it comes off very unconvincingly and superficioul. Never is she credible as an intelligent, resourceful woman that could handle challenging situations on her own without Bond taking care of things. It is not helped either by the fact that she cries and screams like a helpless chicken whenever she is faced with any threat through out the film, be it real ones or simply running water...

    I am glad you mentioned the 'confession scene' with Moore. It is a good illustration of all the character's lackings (not solely acting related). It is all supposed to be a dramatic, tense moment. Yet I cannot help laughing out loud whenever I see it! That helpless damsel who has demonstrated absolutely no abilities or competence through out the film, and has basically needed Bond to baby sit her, is now pretending she could pose a real threat to him? It is an absolutely hilarious scene! If I was Bond I would laugh the whole thing off and offer to buy her an ice cream... ;))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What amazes me is the image of Bond girls vs. what I see as the reality. They have a bad reputation in general due to when these films were introduced to the public and the imagery, but I think some of that reputation is unfounded. Many of the early 'girls' have grit and are quite brave. Those are attributes that are sometimes forgotten. Sure there are also some silly ones, but after 50 + years I think we've had quite a lot of decent variety, which is how it is in life as well.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    The way I look at it,i would say overall the balance between good Bond girls and bad ones is probably only about 60/40 in favour of good,not a big difference.
    I'd say even higher. I like most of them personally.
    MooreFun wrote: »
    Personally, I feel like Yeoh gets missed in the critiques, perhaps because people focus on Hatcher. I get the feeling she liked the action part of her role, but not the romance side; to me, there is zero chemistry from her toward Brosnan. It’s very flat and almost contemptuous.
    That's one of my major criticisms of that film. It's seems to be far more action oriented on the balance scale and I would have preferred just a little more of a romantic flavour. The Hatcher thing didn't work for me, and perhaps that's why they de-emphasized Yeoh, because they didn't want it to conflict with Paris's importance to Bond.

    Given that Paris Carver was a glorified cameo, the result was maybe the weakest pool of Bond girls in the franchise. One that was too much of an action chick/Bond's equal and one who was quickly forgotten after her death. I wish the Danish teacher had had more screen time. She was the best of the three!

    I agree. The Danish teacher was a highlight of the film.
    The teacher was nice, even if a bit cliched. I'm at a loss to think of how they could have used her more in the film though, unless she was Brosnan's Trench who he came back to after the mission.
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I, for one, absolutely loved Pam in LTK. The jealous act was somewhat unnecessary but overall I thought she made one of the most competent Bond girls.
    I personally found both of Dalton's girls a bit whiny and annoying, but of the two I preferred Pam to Kara.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    jobo wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    pachazo wrote: »
    Well then, I suppose my controversial opinion is that I actually like Barbara's performance!

    I certainly don't think of her as a great actress, but I think she plays the role with a certain detachment and coldness that I would expect from a Soviet agent. Perhaps her limitations as an actress actually helped her in this regard.

    Anyway, it's part of the charm of TSWLM (for me) and I couldn't imagine anyone else as XXX, but I do understand how some might feel differently.

    Well said. Barbara Bach easily ranks in my top 5 favorite leading Bond girls. Easily.
    She icy and detached enough to make her intriguing. I wouldn't want agent XXX to have a warm personality of someone like, say Kara.
    I also think her performance during the scene where Bond confesses to probably having killed Sergei spot on. I don't think it would have been necessary to have her go into hysterics or start screaming like Stacey. In this case less was more.


    But acting "icy and detached" also requires a bare minimum of effort. One of the main challenges in any acting role is to look beliavable as the character you are supposed to portray. I have no issue with Triple X being portrayed coldly, the problem is that it comes off very unconvincingly and superficioul. Never is she credible as an intelligent, resourceful woman that could handle challenging situations on her own without Bond taking care of things. It is not helped either by the fact that she cries and screams like a helpless chicken whenever she is faced with any threat through out the film, be it real ones or simply running water...

    I am glad you mentioned the 'confession scene' with Moore. It is a good illustration of all the character's lackings (not solely acting related). It is all supposed to be a dramatic, tense moment. Yet I cannot help laughing out loud whenever I see it! That helpless damsel who has demonstrated absolutely no abilities or competence through out the film, and has basically needed Bond to baby sit her, is now pretending she could pose a real threat to him? It is an absolutely hilarious scene! If I was Bond I would laugh the whole thing off and offer to buy her an ice cream... ;))

    What’d you mean no abilities, @jobo? she makes a good looking karate-chop pose. I mean, it wasn’t threatening in the least, wasn’t even a proper combat stance, but it looked good in her evening dress.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Ah, now we know where the inspiration to the slappers only mode came from.
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,507
    peter wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    pachazo wrote: »
    Well then, I suppose my controversial opinion is that I actually like Barbara's performance!

    I certainly don't think of her as a great actress, but I think she plays the role with a certain detachment and coldness that I would expect from a Soviet agent. Perhaps her limitations as an actress actually helped her in this regard.

    Anyway, it's part of the charm of TSWLM (for me) and I couldn't imagine anyone else as XXX, but I do understand how some might feel differently.

    Well said. Barbara Bach easily ranks in my top 5 favorite leading Bond girls. Easily.
    She icy and detached enough to make her intriguing. I wouldn't want agent XXX to have a warm personality of someone like, say Kara.
    I also think her performance during the scene where Bond confesses to probably having killed Sergei spot on. I don't think it would have been necessary to have her go into hysterics or start screaming like Stacey. In this case less was more.


    But acting "icy and detached" also requires a bare minimum of effort. One of the main challenges in any acting role is to look beliavable as the character you are supposed to portray. I have no issue with Triple X being portrayed coldly, the problem is that it comes off very unconvincingly and superficioul. Never is she credible as an intelligent, resourceful woman that could handle challenging situations on her own without Bond taking care of things. It is not helped either by the fact that she cries and screams like a helpless chicken whenever she is faced with any threat through out the film, be it real ones or simply running water...

    I am glad you mentioned the 'confession scene' with Moore. It is a good illustration of all the character's lackings (not solely acting related). It is all supposed to be a dramatic, tense moment. Yet I cannot help laughing out loud whenever I see it! That helpless damsel who has demonstrated absolutely no abilities or competence through out the film, and has basically needed Bond to baby sit her, is now pretending she could pose a real threat to him? It is an absolutely hilarious scene! If I was Bond I would laugh the whole thing off and offer to buy her an ice cream... ;))

    What’d you mean no abilities, @jobo? she makes a good looking karate-chop pose. I mean, it wasn’t threatening in the least, wasn’t even a proper combat stance, but it looked good in her evening dress.


    Well, I suppose she has certain birth given qualities related to her sex, which, well, only women have... Which is probably the only reason Bond finds it worthwile dragging her with him ;)

    I find it very amusing that we have gone from debating wether Vesper was a worthy match for Bond to now accepting Triple X as USSR's top agent because she... ehm... has an 'icy and detached' demeanor and has... well... certain female qualities. The world of logic is funny sometimes... ;)
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,159
    bondjames wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What amazes me is the image of Bond girls vs. what I see as the reality. They have a bad reputation in general due to when these films were introduced to the public and the imagery, but I think some of that reputation is unfounded. Many of the early 'girls' have grit and are quite brave. Those are attributes that are sometimes forgotten. Sure there are also some silly ones, but after 50 + years I think we've had quite a lot of decent variety, which is how it is in life as well.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    The way I look at it,i would say overall the balance between good Bond girls and bad ones is probably only about 60/40 in favour of good,not a big difference.
    I'd say even higher. I like most of them personally.
    MooreFun wrote: »
    Personally, I feel like Yeoh gets missed in the critiques, perhaps because people focus on Hatcher. I get the feeling she liked the action part of her role, but not the romance side; to me, there is zero chemistry from her toward Brosnan. It’s very flat and almost contemptuous.
    That's one of my major criticisms of that film. It's seems to be far more action oriented on the balance scale and I would have preferred just a little more of a romantic flavour. The Hatcher thing didn't work for me, and perhaps that's why they de-emphasized Yeoh, because they didn't want it to conflict with Paris's importance to Bond.

    Given that Paris Carver was a glorified cameo, the result was maybe the weakest pool of Bond girls in the franchise. One that was too much of an action chick/Bond's equal and one who was quickly forgotten after her death. I wish the Danish teacher had had more screen time. She was the best of the three!

    I agree. The Danish teacher was a highlight of the film.
    The teacher was nice, even if a bit cliched. I'm at a loss to think of how they could have used her more in the film though, unless she was Brosnan's Trench who he came back to after the mission.
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I, for one, absolutely loved Pam in LTK. The jealous act was somewhat unnecessary but overall I thought she made one of the most competent Bond girls.
    I personally found both of Dalton's girls a bit whiny and annoying, but of the two I preferred Pam to Kara.

    They could have given TND five minutes or so of extra time so we could know the Danish teacher more. She could have been the Pat Fearing of TND.

    Or maybe easier: that presenter who got fired by Carver. Give her a few extra scenes when Bond ahem, interrogate her to learn more about Carver. Okay so she's just a presenter but they could have beefed her role and position up.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2019 Posts: 23,883
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    What amazes me is the image of Bond girls vs. what I see as the reality. They have a bad reputation in general due to when these films were introduced to the public and the imagery, but I think some of that reputation is unfounded. Many of the early 'girls' have grit and are quite brave. Those are attributes that are sometimes forgotten. Sure there are also some silly ones, but after 50 + years I think we've had quite a lot of decent variety, which is how it is in life as well.
    barryt007 wrote: »
    The way I look at it,i would say overall the balance between good Bond girls and bad ones is probably only about 60/40 in favour of good,not a big difference.
    I'd say even higher. I like most of them personally.
    MooreFun wrote: »
    Personally, I feel like Yeoh gets missed in the critiques, perhaps because people focus on Hatcher. I get the feeling she liked the action part of her role, but not the romance side; to me, there is zero chemistry from her toward Brosnan. It’s very flat and almost contemptuous.
    That's one of my major criticisms of that film. It's seems to be far more action oriented on the balance scale and I would have preferred just a little more of a romantic flavour. The Hatcher thing didn't work for me, and perhaps that's why they de-emphasized Yeoh, because they didn't want it to conflict with Paris's importance to Bond.

    Given that Paris Carver was a glorified cameo, the result was maybe the weakest pool of Bond girls in the franchise. One that was too much of an action chick/Bond's equal and one who was quickly forgotten after her death. I wish the Danish teacher had had more screen time. She was the best of the three!

    I agree. The Danish teacher was a highlight of the film.
    The teacher was nice, even if a bit cliched. I'm at a loss to think of how they could have used her more in the film though, unless she was Brosnan's Trench who he came back to after the mission.
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    I, for one, absolutely loved Pam in LTK. The jealous act was somewhat unnecessary but overall I thought she made one of the most competent Bond girls.
    I personally found both of Dalton's girls a bit whiny and annoying, but of the two I preferred Pam to Kara.

    They could have given TND five minutes or so of extra time so we could know the Danish teacher more. She could have been the Pat Fearing of TND.

    Or maybe easier: that presenter who got fired by Carver. Give her a few extra scenes when Bond ahem, interrogate her to learn more about Carver. Okay so she's just a presenter but they could have beefed her role and position up.
    I liked the presenter too. Highly competent imho, and I feel that Carver treated her disrespectfully and inappropriately.

    RE: a bit of Danish, yes a bit more time at Oxford could have perhaps worked, but maybe not in this film with its rush against the clock pacing.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,159
    The presenter is one of the almost Bond girls I wished he had bedded. A missed opportunity imo. TND is way too rushed and the Bond girls suffer from it. And they are overall poor imo.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    jobo wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    pachazo wrote: »
    Well then, I suppose my controversial opinion is that I actually like Barbara's performance!

    I certainly don't think of her as a great actress, but I think she plays the role with a certain detachment and coldness that I would expect from a Soviet agent. Perhaps her limitations as an actress actually helped her in this regard.

    Anyway, it's part of the charm of TSWLM (for me) and I couldn't imagine anyone else as XXX, but I do understand how some might feel differently.

    Well said. Barbara Bach easily ranks in my top 5 favorite leading Bond girls. Easily.
    She icy and detached enough to make her intriguing. I wouldn't want agent XXX to have a warm personality of someone like, say Kara.
    I also think her performance during the scene where Bond confesses to probably having killed Sergei spot on. I don't think it would have been necessary to have her go into hysterics or start screaming like Stacey. In this case less was more.


    But acting "icy and detached" also requires a bare minimum of effort. One of the main challenges in any acting role is to look beliavable as the character you are supposed to portray. I have no issue with Triple X being portrayed coldly, the problem is that it comes off very unconvincingly and superficioul. Never is she credible as an intelligent, resourceful woman that could handle challenging situations on her own without Bond taking care of things. It is not helped either by the fact that she cries and screams like a helpless chicken whenever she is faced with any threat through out the film, be it real ones or simply running water...

    I am glad you mentioned the 'confession scene' with Moore. It is a good illustration of all the character's lackings (not solely acting related). It is all supposed to be a dramatic, tense moment. Yet I cannot help laughing out loud whenever I see it! That helpless damsel who has demonstrated absolutely no abilities or competence through out the film, and has basically needed Bond to baby sit her, is now pretending she could pose a real threat to him? It is an absolutely hilarious scene! If I was Bond I would laugh the whole thing off and offer to buy her an ice cream... ;))

    What’d you mean no abilities, @jobo? she makes a good looking karate-chop pose. I mean, it wasn’t threatening in the least, wasn’t even a proper combat stance, but it looked good in her evening dress.


    Well, I suppose she has certain birth given qualities related to her sex, which, well, only women have... Which is probably the only reason Bond finds it worthwile dragging her with him ;)

    I find it very amusing that we have gone from debating wether Vesper was a worthy match for Bond to now accepting Triple X as USSR's top agent because she... ehm... has an 'icy and detached' demeanor and has... well... certain female qualities. The world of logic is funny sometimes... ;)

    It’s called deflection @jobo

  • TracyTracy
    edited January 2019 Posts: 1,710
    "Honestly, I would be so blunt to claim that if you put any of those names mentioned in the role of Triple X, the result would have been better!"

    Streep wasn't known in '76 and her fee wouldve been reasonable for Cubby I guess

    If only Linda Evangelista was an actress , she couldve worked as a Bond bad girl back in the day imo

    "TLD jailer can't even be arsed and just plays him as a Scouser. Who does he think he is - Sean Connery?"

    Telly as a russian with american accent in Horror Express or Walken as Zorin.......Zorin would prolly had a german accent since he lived most of his life in Germany (perhaps Bowie wouldve played him with german accent , we will never know.......)
  • zb007zb007 UK
    edited January 2019 Posts: 87
    Tracy wrote: »
    "TLD jailer can't even be arsed and just plays him as a Scouser. Who does he think he is - Sean Connery?"

    I was watching TLD over the weekend and when that scene came on i did think could they not of dubbed the actor or something

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    zb007 wrote: »
    Tracy wrote: »
    "TLD jailer can't even be arsed and just plays him as a Scouser. Who does he think he is - Sean Connery?"

    I was watching TLD over the weekend and when that scene came on i did think could they not of dubbed the actor or something
    He's hilarious! Unintentionally funny. I quite like that entire sequence as a result.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    He was in a UK soap at the time based in Liverpool,Brookside,and he was crap in that as well.

    Of all the actors out there,why the hell did they cast this plank over others ?!
    Sometimes I wonder about EON's casting staff,i really do.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,054
    barryt007 wrote: »
    He was in a UK soap at the time based in Liverpool,Brookside,and he was crap in that as well.

    Of all the actors out there,why the hell did they cast this plank over others ?!
    Sometimes I wonder about EON's casting staff,i really do.

    The Bond films have always had excellent dubbing.

    This is one instance that would have benefited.

    Who knows, perhaps one day we'll get a special edition of Daylights with the awful accent rectified...

  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    LeonardPine wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    He was in a UK soap at the time based in Liverpool,Brookside,and he was crap in that as well.

    Of all the actors out there,why the hell did they cast this plank over others ?!
    Sometimes I wonder about EON's casting staff,i really do.

    The Bond films have always had excellent dubbing.

    This is one instance that would have benefited.

    Who knows, perhaps one day we'll get a special edition of Daylights with the awful accent rectified...

    Exactly !

    This character was screaming out loud to be dubbed !!
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    I must be the only person who can't hear a scouse accent. Never having seen the guy in Brookside this film is all I have to go on.

    " I did not tell you to get down!" Does that really sound scouse?
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited January 2019 Posts: 19,339
    NicNac wrote: »
    I must be the only person who can't hear a scouse accent. Never having seen the guy in Brookside this film is all I have to go on.

    " I did not tell you to get down!" Does that really sound scouse?

    Regarding your trip to Liverpool,Nackers,as M said to MooreBond in MR about Rio:

    "I think I can recall your missing it "

    59775-17221-0.jpg

    Or you can try a Stan Boardman box set to compare the accent he he .

    Alas,TLD jailor can never return for an encore :

    KenSharrockLE.jpg
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,584
    I did not tell you to get up, Bazza.
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