No Time To Die: Production Diary

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Comments

  • bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    My only question and it's kind of a big one considering Bond 25 would a vengeance ridden bond sleeping around be ok in others eyes... I don't have an issue (assuming we are mixing Ohmss and YOLT) in Bond 25 with 007 seeking solace in other women's arms as again many people do enjoy the opposite sex with a bit of abandonment after a traumatic experience (I know I did after my fall out with my ex gf) but others may find that behavior disingenuous... what is everyone's thoughts?

    Those 2 words are enough to put me off that idea,sorry matey,i cant face another film like that,Bond or not.
    +1.

    I don't think we'll see Bond sleeping around much. This is Craig after all, and he's commented negatively on the character's pursuits in that regard. If this is his self proclaimed 'high' I think he won't want that to be an essential part of the character's progress.

    Vengeance, solace and acceptance may be what they go for, but I think whatever they do the public will inevitably compare it to SF. Watch for that to be the discussion in two years time when the film is released.

    IF Bond #25 turns up as critically acclaimed as SF and CR, then by jolly the discussion will become interesting in here :-). I do think that Craig's confirmation that his 5th will be his final, could actually result in extra creativity and incentive, like when Bond actors do their very first film. Because let's face it, none of Craig's predecessors had a proper send-off.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    My only question and it's kind of a big one considering Bond 25 would a vengeance ridden bond sleeping around be ok in others eyes... I don't have an issue (assuming we are mixing Ohmss and YOLT) in Bond 25 with 007 seeking solace in other women's arms as again many people do enjoy the opposite sex with a bit of abandonment after a traumatic experience (I know I did after my fall out with my ex gf) but others may find that behavior disingenuous... what is everyone's thoughts?

    Those 2 words are enough to put me off that idea,sorry matey,i cant face another film like that,Bond or not.
    +1.

    I don't think we'll see Bond sleeping around much. This is Craig after all, and he's commented negatively on the character's pursuits in that regard. If this is his self proclaimed 'high' I think he won't want that to be an essential part of the character's progress.

    Vengeance, solace and acceptance may be what they go for, but I think whatever they do the public will inevitably compare it to SF. Watch for that to be the discussion in two years time when the film is released.

    IF Bond #25 turns up as critically acclaimed as SF and CR, then by jolly the discussion will become interesting in here :-). I do think that Craig's confirmation that his 5th will be his final, could actually result in extra creativity and incentive, like when Bond actors do their very first film. Because let's face it, none of Craig's predecessors had a proper send-off.
    Let's hope so. They told us that SP was going to rock the house too and look what happened there (I realize some still tout it as being great). It was discussed as being his last upon release too, based upon his comments.

    Sometimes these things are outside one's control. It's more a function of timing than egos and best intentions.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    edited September 2017 Posts: 1,756
    001 wrote: »
    Hopefully B25 will have better looking bonds girls than Spectre. Except for Stephanie Sigman who looks absolutely beautiful.

    https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/understanding-drug-use-addiction

  • edited September 2017 Posts: 4,619
    IF Bond #25 turns up as critically acclaimed as SF and CR, then
    ...then QOS and SP will be completely forgotten and CR+SF+Bond25 will be remembered as Craig's great Bond trilogy.
  • Posts: 19,339
    IF Bond #25 turns up as critically acclaimed as SF and CR, then
    ...then QOS and SP will be completely forgotten and CR+SF+Bond25 will be remembered as Craig's great Bond trilogy.

    No Bond film is forgotten by everyone.

  • edited September 2017 Posts: 9,848
    I am not saying vengeance is what I want either but since Spectre Boxed us into a corner well....

    The only way I can see this without the revenge angle is A) bond realizes he can't settle down and leaves swann sometime in the middle of the first act or B) she is secretly evil...

    Neither is compelling or interesting
  • NSGWNSGW London
    Posts: 299
    Despite the increasing levels of continuity in this era, I would still be surprised if Swann comes back given SP's mixed success, even though I thought she was a decent enough Bond girl. The only way I can see it happening is if, like many others have suggested, they do a OHMSS/YOLT approach where she is killed off early on. I would actually be fine with them going down the route of vengeance one last time as it suits Craig's Bond and he gave such a great performance in QoS. Now we've had four films from him and SP was such a different approach they've really had the chance to figure what works for Craig and what doesn't, lets hope the team involved have learnt from that and give Craig the send off he deserves.

    Although CR is my favourite Craig film, I'd prefer to Bond 25 to be closer to QoS in terms of the themes and how it explored Bond's character but more noticeably Bondian in terms of style and execution.
  • Posts: 2,107
    I bet they will do a little character rewrite and make Swann be Brofeld's daughter who masqueraded as White's daughter in SP.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    B25 pulls an Oldboy and it turns out Swann is Bond's daughter.

    VAT A TWEEEEEST!
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,540
    'Film Stars Don't Die in Liverpool' will have its European premiere at the BFI London Film Festival.

  • Posts: 4,619
    @Red_Snow Telluride, Toronto, London. Hopefully Barabra Broccoli will attend at least one of these film festivals and hopefully someone will ask her about Bond 25 and the rumors about them wanting to sell the franchise.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    SharkBait wrote: »
    I bet they will do a little character rewrite and make Swann be Brofeld's daughter who masqueraded as White's daughter in SP.
    Minion wrote: »
    B25 pulls an Oldboy and it turns out Swann is Bond's daughter.

    VAT A TWEEEEEST!

    I'm glad P&W don't come on here. Otherwise both of you should be asking for credit and writing royalties
  • Posts: 2,107
    But "we" are the pervert and waste. Oh, never mind about all that. We would't pretend to act as someone, who's first language isn't english. We promise!
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    Posts: 2,540
    @Red_Snow Telluride, Toronto, London. Hopefully Barabra Broccoli will attend at least one of these film festivals and hopefully someone will ask her about Bond 25 and the rumors about them wanting to sell the franchise.

    She's currently not listed among the attendees at London or Toronto, not sure about Telluride.
  • SharkBait wrote: »
    But "we" are the pervert and waste. Oh, never mind about all that. We would't pretend to act as someone, who's first language isn't english. We promise!

    This almost sounds....neo-nationalist. My first language is Dutch for instance. But because of that we.....don't understand certain things that you do :-)?
  • Posts: 2,107
    SharkBait wrote: »
    But "we" are the pervert and waste. Oh, never mind about all that. We would't pretend to act as someone, who's first language isn't english. We promise!

    This almost sounds....neo-nationalist. My first language is Dutch for instance. But because of that we.....don't understand certain things that you do :-)?

    You are correct, sir. Carry on. Nothing to see here.
  • 001001
    edited September 2017 Posts: 1,575
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    My only question and it's kind of a big one considering Bond 25 would a vengeance ridden bond sleeping around be ok in others eyes... I don't have an issue (assuming we are mixing Ohmss and YOLT) in Bond 25 with 007 seeking solace in other women's arms as again many people do enjoy the opposite sex with a bit of abandonment after a traumatic experience (I know I did after my fall out with my ex gf) but others may find that behavior disingenuous... what is everyone's thoughts?

    Those 2 words are enough to put me off that idea,sorry matey,i cant face another film like that,Bond or not.
    +1.

    I don't think we'll see Bond sleeping around much. This is Craig after all, and he's commented negatively on the character's pursuits in that regard. If this is his self proclaimed 'high' I think he won't want that to be an essential part of the character's progress.

    Vengeance, solace and acceptance may be what they go for, but I think whatever they do the public will inevitably compare it to SF. Watch for that to be the discussion in two years time when the film is released.

    Fleming's Bond had Sex for Breakfast. :) The majority of Bond movie watches want bond girls and the charm that Beds them.

    I don't care if Craig doesn't like his Bond sleeping around.IMO
    Does he think Fleming's bond wrong in that respect ?

    How can Bond in Spectre fall in love with Swann who has no personality ? IMO
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    barryt007 wrote: »
    IF Bond #25 turns up as critically acclaimed as SF and CR, then
    ...then QOS and SP will be completely forgotten and CR+SF+Bond25 will be remembered as Craig's great Bond trilogy.

    No Bond film is forgotten by everyone.
    Except one. Can't remember what it's called though.

    Do you?

    Risico007 wrote: »
    I am not saying vengeance is what I want either but since Spectre Boxed us into a corner well....

    The only way I can see this without the revenge angle is A) bond realizes he can't settle down and leaves swann sometime in the middle of the first act or B) she is secretly evil...

    Neither is compelling or interesting
    Or Bond leaves Swann off-screen, before the film begins, and during the movie we come to understand why things didn't work out between them. At any rate, the way the character is handled does not necessarily have to be interesting; the goal could be merely to find a reasonable way of getting her out of the way for the new film (if that's what the filmmakers want).
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    By the time B25 is released, there will be a four year gap. If anyone remembers SP, 007 left with a girl, in his Aston Martin...

    Let's bring in a real woman the DC Bond could fall for; or bring back Camille, for B25...

    The two are brought together to bring down Blofeld, but feelings from QOS are reignited.

    At the mid-point mark, Bunt/blofeld assassinate Camille, then we can have the last half being an adaptation of YOLT...
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    peter wrote: »
    By the time B25 is released, there will be a four year gap. If anyone remembers SP, 007 left with a girl, in his Aston Martin...

    Let's bring in a real woman the DC Bond could fall for; or bring back Camille, for B25...

    The two are brought together to bring down Blofeld, but feelings from QOS are reignited.

    At the mid-point mark, Bunt/blofeld assassinate Camille, then we can have the last half being an adaptation of YOLT...

    Hmmm how could they effectively bring back camille and for what reason
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    What if Bond marries Camille. They are both damaged and perfect for each other only to have her murdered at the end of the film
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    What if Bond marries Camille. They are both damaged and perfect for each other only to have her murdered at the end of the film
    Lord, no.
  • Posts: 2,081
    @Red_Snow Telluride, Toronto, London. Hopefully Barabra Broccoli will attend at least one of these film festivals and hopefully someone will ask her about Bond 25 and the rumors about them wanting to sell the franchise.

    She's in Telluride.

  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @JamesBondKenya, remember, Camille is Bolivian Intelligence... she's in the spy game... That's what can bring them together again... I had written earlier, on this, or another thread, that, when B25 picks up, the film-time line will be seven years after the events of SP (SP, although released in '15, actually picked up from the events in SF mere months later (2012)).

    What's Bond been doing for six-seven years? Has he been out of the service for that long?... And if so, what would a man like that be doing?... Without mentioning Swann, DC Bond, like the literary one, would be gambling and drinking most hours away, while indulging in wealthy, married wives for some uncomplicated affairs.

    Meanwhile, what's Blofeld been doing for the six-to-seven years he's been incarcerated? I'd like to see that he's evolved into a wild, violent animal, as his megalomaniacal ambitions have grown to perverse levels. He's so dangerous, he's been locked in solitary.

    However, he's still been dripping out orders to his SP operatives, keeping the organization very much running, and biding his time... Solitary confinement gives a man like this time to plan "the Big One", down to the final "T".

    How does he get bust out of jail?... Perhaps there's a special hearing? The government is deciding to transfer him to another facility (a mental institution?)-- and this is when his break-out occurs.

    Once he escapes, he must strike back at the people responsible for his capture, including Bond. As he may explain at one point-- SPECTRE stands for SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion.

    He wants to go heavy on the revenge and plots some kind of ticking-time bomb event, to shake the bushes of his enemies, as it were...

    Bond, living on some far away island is living off the grid, but it's Camille that tracks him down. For whatever reason, she knows Bond can help her. She's the catalyst that pulls him into the bigger story.

    Bond knows now that his country needs him, and, after initially turning his back on everything Camille says, is dragged back into the service. This is his call to adventure, and he knows it could very well be his last (as the stakes have to be high; and he's been out of the service for far too long).

    He and Camille work together as spies, tracking down Blofeld and trying to stop whatever the Big Plan is, and, through this adventure, feelings from QoS bubble to the surface.

    Maybe by the beginning of ACT THREE, Bond and Camille actually thwart Blofeld's Big Plan, and the story, they think, is over. Celebrating by indulging in each other, they don't realize that Blofeld's lead assassin, Irma Bunt, has tracked them down and attempts to kill them.

    She successfully takes out Camille, with Bond barely escaping. This opens up a third act where Bond tracks down Blofeld to exact his revenge...

    I don't know, JBKenya, it's just a swirling idea, held together by very loose strings, that is beginning to sound like bad fan-lit! In the end, i'd love to NEVER hear about Maddy ever again, and, since I love Camille, I'd love to see her return, as I would Felix Leiter. I'd also like to see a massive plan coming from Blofeld, who's become sick and twisted from years in solitary, but his evil plans have only grown larger and more sophisticated, and more sadistic. A ticking time bomb-type of plan where every second has to count. And finally, DC Bond ends by taking out his nemesis once and for all, and, at the end, he may watch his own funeral, since everyone thought he did die in this last mission.

    MP, at the ceremony, feels eyes on her. Turning around, she catches a glimpse of a battered figure limping away and disappearing over a hill. She knows it's Bond, but lets him go.

    Close off the Craig era and move into the new era...

    Forget me saying fan-lit... This is more like fan-porn... Anyways, those are some things I'd like to see, but it also shows how bloody difficult it is to come up with a good story. So best of luck goes out to P&W and the script doctors that will surely be on board before too long!!
  • peter wrote: »
    @JamesBondKenya, remember, Camille is Bolivian Intelligence... she's in the spy game... That's what can bring them together again... I had written earlier, on this, or another thread, that, when B25 picks up, the film-time line will be seven years after the events of SP (SP, although released in '15, actually picked up from the events in SF mere months later (2012)).

    What's Bond been doing for six-seven years? Has he been out of the service for that long?... And if so, what would a man like that be doing?... Without mentioning Swann, DC Bond, like the literary one, would be gambling and drinking most hours away, while indulging in wealthy, married wives for some uncomplicated affairs.

    Meanwhile, what's Blofeld been doing for the six-to-seven years he's been incarcerated? I'd like to see that he's evolved into a wild, violent animal, as his megalomaniacal ambitions have grown to perverse levels. He's so dangerous, he's been locked in solitary.

    However, he's still been dripping out orders to his SP operatives, keeping the organization very much running, and biding his time... Solitary confinement gives a man like this time to plan "the Big One", down to the final "T".

    How does he get bust out of jail?... Perhaps there's a special hearing? The government is deciding to transfer him to another facility (a mental institution?)-- and this is when his break-out occurs.

    Once he escapes, he must strike back at the people responsible for his capture, including Bond. As he may explain at one point-- SPECTRE stands for SPecial Executive for Counterintelligence, Terrorism, Revenge and Extortion.

    He wants to go heavy on the revenge and plots some kind of ticking-time bomb event, to shake the bushes of his enemies, as it were...

    Bond, living on some far away island is living off the grid, but it's Camille that tracks him down. For whatever reason, she knows Bond can help her. She's the catalyst that pulls him into the bigger story.

    Bond knows now that his country needs him, and, after initially turning his back on everything Camille says, is dragged back into the service. This is his call to adventure, and he knows it could very well be his last (as the stakes have to be high; and he's been out of the service for far too long).

    He and Camille work together as spies, tracking down Blofeld and trying to stop whatever the Big Plan is, and, through this adventure, feelings from QoS bubble to the surface.

    Maybe by the beginning of ACT THREE, Bond and Camille actually thwart Blofeld's Big Plan, and the story, they think, is over. Celebrating by indulging in each other, they don't realize that Blofeld's lead assassin, Irma Bunt, has tracked them down and attempts to kill them.

    She successfully takes out Camille, with Bond barely escaping. This opens up a third act where Bond tracks down Blofeld to exact his revenge...

    I don't know, JBKenya, it's just a swirling idea, held together by very loose strings, that is beginning to sound like bad fan-lit! In the end, i'd love to NEVER hear about Maddy ever again, and, since I love Camille, I'd love to see her return, as I would Felix Leiter. I'd also like to see a massive plan coming from Blofeld, who's become sick and twisted from years in solitary, but his evil plans have only grown larger and more sophisticated, and more sadistic. A ticking time bomb-type of plan where every second has to count. And finally, DC Bond ends by taking out his nemesis once and for all, and, at the end, he may watch his own funeral, since everyone thought he did die in this last mission.

    MP, at the ceremony, feels eyes on her. Turning around, she catches a glimpse of a battered figure limping away and disappearing over a hill. She knows it's Bond, but lets him go.

    Close off the Craig era and move into the new era...

    Forget me saying fan-lit... This is more like fan-porn... Anyways, those are some things I'd like to see, but it also shows how bloody difficult it is to come up with a good story. So best of luck goes out to P&W and the script doctors that will surely be on board before too long!!

    Just three words: no personal angles!!!
    Fleming conceived Bond as a professional just doing his job. Coincidentally that's exactly the 007 I happen to like and even love.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @noSolaceleft, I understand where you're coming from. I just can't see DC's last Bond adventure not having some personal stake to it.

    In my fan-porn above, I try and steer away from personal stakes, but, there's an element to action-thrillers nowadays to have both external stakes and internal (personal stakes).

    The trick is how to weave these things into a great big story.

    I think DIE HARD does this best. McClane's big, personal stake, is that he's actually trying to save his marriage. By saving Holly, and himself, he can finally reconcile with his wife-- something he couldn't do until Hans Gruber came into his life. But, this angle is not over-wrought. It's part of the sub-text of an amazing action film.

    That's what B25 will have to do-- have the personal stakes, but weave it and embed it into the narrative where it adds layers to the story, not take us out of the story through melodrama.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    @peter

    I actually quite like what you've come up with there. I think anyone thinking that they are going to jettison the personal element from the final DC film is living in cloud cuckoo land, irregardless of whether they like the sound of it and are sick of it.

    It's been one of the hallmarks of the DC era since CR, to be honest a good percentage loved it me included that Bond good be seen as three dimensional character and not just a cool type spy who rarely bleeds etc.

    Though the personal element that the films started to explore in SF and then dive into with SPECTRE went too far.

    Bond 25 will I think acknowledge SP but not explicitly ( I hope not anyway) and what you put together there seems an option for DC to go out on.

    I'd be happy with Camile coming back as well much more than seeing Seydoux sleep walk through Swann again.

    I think they can acknowledge it didn't work and having Bond having gone off the grid and coming back I think is something that would make sense in the context of the last film, it happend off screen how Bond got to this point, we don't need to see it but return to him when he's at this moment.

    I think they will want to put a full stop on this era, no don't kill Bond but give the impression it's done like Nolan did in TDKR, don't ape that but in a way that says to the audience this time line is finished and then in big capital letters make it clear when the new Bond takes over that this is a new Bond, not an origin but possibly a recast of all the characters is in order.

    I don't think we'll get a standalone or a big battle finale like I would like to finish the DC era off and I can see some kind of YOLT element playing into this as well.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2017 Posts: 23,883
    001 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Risico007 wrote: »
    My only question and it's kind of a big one considering Bond 25 would a vengeance ridden bond sleeping around be ok in others eyes... I don't have an issue (assuming we are mixing Ohmss and YOLT) in Bond 25 with 007 seeking solace in other women's arms as again many people do enjoy the opposite sex with a bit of abandonment after a traumatic experience (I know I did after my fall out with my ex gf) but others may find that behavior disingenuous... what is everyone's thoughts?

    Those 2 words are enough to put me off that idea,sorry matey,i cant face another film like that,Bond or not.
    +1.

    I don't think we'll see Bond sleeping around much. This is Craig after all, and he's commented negatively on the character's pursuits in that regard. If this is his self proclaimed 'high' I think he won't want that to be an essential part of the character's progress.

    Vengeance, solace and acceptance may be what they go for, but I think whatever they do the public will inevitably compare it to SF. Watch for that to be the discussion in two years time when the film is released.

    Fleming's Bond had Sex for Breakfast. :) The majority of Bond movie watches want bond girls and the charm that Beds them.

    I don't care if Craig doesn't like his Bond sleeping around.IMO
    Does he think Fleming's bond wrong in that respect ?

    How can Bond in Spectre fall in love with Swann who has no personality ? IMO
    Some have argued that it's Swann who does the falling in SP. Bond is just along for the ride and is using her as his ticket out of his miserable life. Sadly, Smith's pathetic wailing paints a different and contradictory narrative, so I can appreciate the confusion.

    I'm afraid that although I agree with you, we're going to have to wait for the recast before they get things back in order. B25 will continue with DC Bond's journey, including more introspection.
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I think they will want to put a full stop on this era, no don't kill Bond but give the impression it's done like Nolan did in TDKR, don't ape that but in a way that says to the audience this time line is finished and then in big capital letters make it clear when the new Bond takes over that this is a new Bond, not an origin but possibly a recast of all the characters is in order.
    Unfortunately, they already did that with SP. Many (including quite a few on this thread, myself included) felt that the SP ending mirrored the TDKR one, with Bond on his way out into the sunset for a life of peace with his intended. To go down that path again would just be a repeat. So I hope they take a different approach. I'd prefer a more inconclusive and downbeat ending. It would be fitting closure to this 'realistic' iteration.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    I agree @Shardlake , and you're right, when that changing of the guard happens for B26, i do hope that an entirely new cast is put in place.

    This has been a great run, with the hiccup being SP. However, they actually have a chance to right the wrongs and blow the doors off of Craig's last chapter. Going in, this must be creatively exciting for the team.

    Babs and Co are very sophisticated and intelligent people. If most of us realized that something was "off" about the last effort, then they certainly do, and moreso too. And they're in the business of making magic happen. My gut's saying they will put their best foot forward into making this happen.

    Of course, can't please everyone all of the time, and there will be people who won't like B25, right off the hop (as we're already seeing with some comments). But that's the business of movie-making: hopefully more people will like the film than not (and return for repeat viewings!)....
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043

    Shardlake wrote: »
    I think they will want to put a full stop on this era, no don't kill Bond but give the impression it's done like Nolan did in TDKR, don't ape that but in a way that says to the audience this time line is finished and then in big capital letters make it clear when the new Bond takes over that this is a new Bond, not an origin but possibly a recast of all the characters is in order.
    Unfortunately, they already did that with SP. Many (including quite a few on this thread, myself included) felt that the SP ending mirrored the TDKR one, with Bond on his way out into the sunset for a life of peace with his intended. To go down that path again would just be a repeat. So I hope they take a different approach. I'd prefer a more inconclusive and downbeat ending. It would be fitting closure to this 'realistic' iteration.[/quote]

    I think as you did some did get that idea but personally I did not see it has definitive as Nolan did with TDKR.

    A downbeat ending would be fine by me and like you say appropiate to this era.

    Something like @peter proposed, it's all ready better than the mess we got previously, I really like bringing Camile back as well.

    I am still keen on my idea of a tense dialogue heavy PTS with Bond visting Blofeld in prison though, something akin to CR in not being action heavy or epic, just both actors getting a chance to deliver on the promise that we expected with putting these 2 actors together.

    I think DC and CW will realise they've got something to prove this time round.

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