No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    Getafix wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    The DB5 in SF was a case in point. The overall movie took a new and fresh approach. Too far off the Bond template for some but obvioulsy it did very well. But they could not resist bringing the DB5 back. It's lazy IMHO. Thing is, on first watch, it brought a massive smile to my face. It's a cheap trick (which I fell for) but does not help the series in the long run. The only up side (I thought so at the time) was to use the blowing up of the DB5 as a message to fans -" right, thats definately it, it's over, lets move on" but they did not have the guts to do that and it comes back yet again.
    If the series is not strong enough to move forward without the DB5, then it's in trouble.

    The DB5 was both nostalgic AND symbolic in SF. When we see it get blown to bits, at the end of the film, that was a definite allusion to a destruction of "old" Bond and "old ways." It worked.

    @TripAces But then, at the end, they bring the old office back? :-/

    As @RC7 says, it worked great in SF.

    SP then ripped it up, as it did to a lot that happened in the previous three films.



    boldfinger wrote: »
    Oh I see, that´s why they re-introduced the old M office at the end of SF, right?
    SF is a textbook example of pretentiousness.

    The old M office demonstrated that the old ways had indeed won out. It's why Silva died with a knife in his back.

    SF was a brilliant film. You say "pretentious," I say, "By far the most Intelligent Bond film ever made." I'm sorry you didn't appreciate it.

    There’s intelligence and then there’s “using lots of big words”, if you know what I mean? I put SF in the big words category. Literally, with its clunking references and not so subtle thematic sign posting.

    SF is frankly a dumb person’s idea of a clever movie.

    I never called SF clever. I called it "intelligent." There is a big difference between the two.

    To @bondjames point about the DB5. I should have been clearer: the destruction of the car didn't mean Bond and "old ways" had been defeated; just that it suggested a cynical view of the past, of sentimental value (remember Mallory's line about sentimenality). the car's destruction represented one (dramatic) piece of an ongoing battle. I'll admit: seeing that car getting blown to bits tugged at me.

    I agree with @patb: Mendes & co took a lot of what worked in SF (the issue of technology, duality, Bond's psyche) and went too far with it. But I am not going to let SP affect my enjoyment of SF any more than Temple of Doom affect my enjoyment of ROTLA.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @marketto007 — love it. That’s the DC I would very much like to see. Dangerous...
  • Posts: 11,425
    I feel Mendes stole DC from us in his prime and substituted this prosthetic dummy. Can the DC of CR and QoS make one final appearance?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Yes, @Getafix ; I also feel like SM defanged DC (although I very much enjoy SF). I think DC could return to form, depending on script and director. He’s a fantastic actor, a physical actor, but it’s up to the script and director to “release the beast”...
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes please! One final angry blast of early DC Bond would be awesome.
  • edited December 2017 Posts: 11,425
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
    Rage, against the dying of the light.

    I know DC’s Bond loves a bit of poetry. Not a bad leaping off point for B25 actually. Please don’t have someone read it out though in the middle of the film - that would be really sh*t.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Reading from the same page, my friend!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    Waltz could be telling the truth , he would know by now if he were castes & filming in 10-11 months by now

    But he was the first to say he won't be playing Blofeld in SP. There's no reason to ever assume actors are telling the truth with this sort of thing.

    Waltz was kind of telling the truth though; whoever that was he was playing in SP sure wasn't the Blofeld we know and recognise.
    In all seriousness I think EoN should dispense with their ever-growing unnecessary secrecy when it comes to certain aspects of their future Bond films. Trying to keep Blofeld a secret in a film called SP was beyond daft and pointless...and I still can't get over how Brofeld made it through the scrpt's QC. How did they genuinely believe that nonsense was a good idea? Urgh!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    They should've known that twist was more suited for Goldmember.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    Waltz could be telling the truth , he would know by now if he were castes & filming in 10-11 months by now

    But he was the first to say he won't be playing Blofeld in SP. There's no reason to ever assume actors are telling the truth with this sort of thing.

    Waltz was kind of telling the truth though; whoever that was he was playing in SP sure wasn't the Blofeld we know and recognise.
    In all seriousness I think EoN should dispense with their ever-growing unnecessary secrecy when it comes to certain aspects of their future Bond films. Trying to keep Blofeld a secret in a film called SP was beyond daft and pointless...and I still can't get over how Brofeld made it through the scrpt's QC. How did they genuinely believe that nonsense was a good idea? Urgh!
    I agree on all points.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    Waltz could be telling the truth , he would know by now if he were castes & filming in 10-11 months by now

    But he was the first to say he won't be playing Blofeld in SP. There's no reason to ever assume actors are telling the truth with this sort of thing.

    Waltz was kind of telling the truth though; whoever that was he was playing in SP sure wasn't the Blofeld we know and recognise.
    In all seriousness I think EoN should dispense with their ever-growing unnecessary secrecy when it comes to certain aspects of their future Bond films. Trying to keep Blofeld a secret in a film called SP was beyond daft and pointless...and I still can't get over how Brofeld made it through the scrpt's QC. How did they genuinely believe that nonsense was a good idea? Urgh!

    Damn good point. It seems SP spent too much time shrouding itself in secrecy and setting out to break Guinness World Records and earn Oscars, more so than it was attempting to craft a solid script to work off of.
  • 007Blofeld007Blofeld In the freedom of the West.
    Posts: 3,126
    Bros-cember
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    Bros-cember

    What does this dribble have to do with B25?
  • Posts: 4,044
    So, some of you also think that BOND 25 could go the LOGAN way? Well, I recently made this...

    bK9obV3.png

    Fantastic poster. Shouldn't that read - finally a mission.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    Bros-cember

    What does this dribble have to do with B25?

    That's the official teaser trailer for B25, so it goes here!
  • Posts: 5,767
    Revelator wrote: »
    boldfinger wrote: »
    Only when I watched the film several times I got the impression that, while clearly jumping on the fast-cut wagon, essentially the editing style is more like Peter Hunt than Paul Greengrass.

    Please don't insult Peter Hunt with such comparisons. OHMSS has lightning-speed editing that is immediately comprehensible to a first-time viewer. Only incompetent filmmakers create action sequences whose action isn't clear upon immediate viewing.
    I don´t believe Peter Hunt is insulted. His editing was at places awkward on first viewing and grew upon repeated viewing, which is why QoS reminded me of it. But never mind, I belong to those people who even think QoS looks pretty Bondian in a not-so-in-your-face way.

  • Posts: 5,767
    Getafix wrote: »
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
    Rage, against the dying of the light.

    I know DC’s Bond loves a bit of poetry. Not a bad leaping off point for B25 actually. Please don’t have someone read it out though in the middle of the film - that would be really sh*t.
    Judy Dench in a dream Bond has!

    What the F is going on all of a sudden with all this "Old Bond" nonsense again?

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    007Blofeld wrote: »
    Bros-cember

    What does this dribble have to do with B25?

    That's the official teaser trailer for B25, so it goes here!

    This is the shared universe that was mentioned before? Wow, that is brave.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    For the poster, seems an incomplete title. How about...

    ONE LAST MISSION: PART I

    Kind of in the Rambo: First Blood Part 2 ethos.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    For the poster, seems an incomplete title. How about...

    ONE LAST MISSION: PART I

    Kind of in the Rambo: First Blood Part 2 ethos.

    JIMBOMISSION: FIRST BLOND
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    How about 007 in America

    But in this film it’s centered around J. W. Pepper, who is not only Blofelds American brother, but also Bonds step brother. He is also undercover in the american police force.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I thought J.W. Pepper's brother was J.B. Weld. :))
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Murdock wrote: »
    I thought J.W. Pepper's brother was J.B. Weld. :))

    Really?
    I always thought it was G. W. Bush
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    TripAces wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    The DB5 in SF was a case in point. The overall movie took a new and fresh approach. Too far off the Bond template for some but obvioulsy it did very well. But they could not resist bringing the DB5 back. It's lazy IMHO. Thing is, on first watch, it brought a massive smile to my face. It's a cheap trick (which I fell for) but does not help the series in the long run. The only up side (I thought so at the time) was to use the blowing up of the DB5 as a message to fans -" right, thats definately it, it's over, lets move on" but they did not have the guts to do that and it comes back yet again.
    If the series is not strong enough to move forward without the DB5, then it's in trouble.

    The DB5 was both nostalgic AND symbolic in SF. When we see it get blown to bits, at the end of the film, that was a definite allusion to a destruction of "old" Bond and "old ways." It worked.

    @TripAces But then, at the end, they bring the old office back? :-/

    As @RC7 says, it worked great in SF.

    SP then ripped it up, as it did to a lot that happened in the previous three films.
    Well, I was alluding to the fact that within the same film, at the end, we get the old office back. I know Spectre goes against Skyfall's themes, but I was talking about Skyfall alone.

    TripAces wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    The DB5 in SF was a case in point. The overall movie took a new and fresh approach. Too far off the Bond template for some but obvioulsy it did very well. But they could not resist bringing the DB5 back. It's lazy IMHO. Thing is, on first watch, it brought a massive smile to my face. It's a cheap trick (which I fell for) but does not help the series in the long run. The only up side (I thought so at the time) was to use the blowing up of the DB5 as a message to fans -" right, thats definately it, it's over, lets move on" but they did not have the guts to do that and it comes back yet again.
    If the series is not strong enough to move forward without the DB5, then it's in trouble.

    The DB5 was both nostalgic AND symbolic in SF. When we see it get blown to bits, at the end of the film, that was a definite allusion to a destruction of "old" Bond and "old ways." It worked.

    @TripAces But then, at the end, they bring the old office back? :-/

    As @RC7 says, it worked great in SF.

    SP then ripped it up, as it did to a lot that happened in the previous three films.



    boldfinger wrote: »
    Oh I see, that´s why they re-introduced the old M office at the end of SF, right?
    SF is a textbook example of pretentiousness.

    The old M office demonstrated that the old ways had indeed won out. It's why Silva died with a knife in his back.

    SF was a brilliant film. You say "pretentious," I say, "By far the most Intelligent Bond film ever made." I'm sorry you didn't appreciate it.

    There’s intelligence and then there’s “using lots of big words”, if you know what I mean? I put SF in the big words category. Literally, with its clunking references and not so subtle thematic sign posting.

    SF is frankly a dumb person’s idea of a clever movie.

    To @bondjames point about the DB5. I should have been clearer: the destruction of the car didn't mean Bond and "old ways" had been defeated; just that it suggested a cynical view of the past, of sentimental value (remember Mallory's line about sentimenality). the car's destruction represented one (dramatic) piece of an ongoing battle. I'll admit: seeing that car getting blown to bits tugged at me.
    Yeah. For me, the destruction of the car is in line with the fact Bond gets a mere gun and a radio from Q, the fact MI6 HQ gets blown up and they have to move to another place, the fact Q still has spots, the fact the villains are stated to be in the shadows, the fact the world "is not more transparent now, it's more opaque." Through all these things the film is saying the world has changed, and I think it aims to analyze or shine a light on what Bond is about in its essence, beyond all those secondary, transient, "sentimental" things. The explosion of the car is a way of getting a rise out of the audience (and Bond), but I think it's also meant to imply Bond the character and Bond the franchise can't expect to rely too much on it in the future. "Old dog, new tricks."

    I definitely don't see it as a mere fan service moment.

    @TripAces What I was trying to say about the office at the end is that to me, it goes against the "anti-sentimentality" theme of the film. If anything, it would've made more sense for the briefing scene to have taken place in the bunker or in an entirely new, different government building, not unlike Spectre's. Bond still being Bond, but in a "brave new world."

    I think that's what the movie is trying to convey. Having said all that, it seems to me Skyfall's deconstruction of Bond was perhaps ill-advised, at least in certain respects. The gadgets, the car, are all secondary things. We can have and in fact we've had films without gadgets and without cars before, but that doesn't mean they are not a big part of Bond. There is no need to "shed that skin." That skin is part of Bond, as Spectre demonstrates. Furthermore, both of Skyfall's predecessors, Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, had little in the way of gadgets, and nothing too extravagant in terms of cars, unlike say, The Spy Who Loved Me, so Skyfall's "anti-gadget" statement seems a tad... unnecessary.

    I admit I could be off-base here so I'd welcome any responses to these thoughts, whether here or in a more appropriate thread.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,534
    mattjoes wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    The DB5 in SF was a case in point. The overall movie took a new and fresh approach. Too far off the Bond template for some but obvioulsy it did very well. But they could not resist bringing the DB5 back. It's lazy IMHO. Thing is, on first watch, it brought a massive smile to my face. It's a cheap trick (which I fell for) but does not help the series in the long run. The only up side (I thought so at the time) was to use the blowing up of the DB5 as a message to fans -" right, thats definately it, it's over, lets move on" but they did not have the guts to do that and it comes back yet again.
    If the series is not strong enough to move forward without the DB5, then it's in trouble.

    The DB5 was both nostalgic AND symbolic in SF. When we see it get blown to bits, at the end of the film, that was a definite allusion to a destruction of "old" Bond and "old ways." It worked.

    @TripAces But then, at the end, they bring the old office back? :-/

    As @RC7 says, it worked great in SF.

    SP then ripped it up, as it did to a lot that happened in the previous three films.
    Well, I was alluding to the fact that within the same film, at the end, we get the old office back. I know Spectre goes against Skyfall's themes, but I was talking about Skyfall alone.

    TripAces wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    mattjoes wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    The DB5 in SF was a case in point. The overall movie took a new and fresh approach. Too far off the Bond template for some but obvioulsy it did very well. But they could not resist bringing the DB5 back. It's lazy IMHO. Thing is, on first watch, it brought a massive smile to my face. It's a cheap trick (which I fell for) but does not help the series in the long run. The only up side (I thought so at the time) was to use the blowing up of the DB5 as a message to fans -" right, thats definately it, it's over, lets move on" but they did not have the guts to do that and it comes back yet again.
    If the series is not strong enough to move forward without the DB5, then it's in trouble.

    The DB5 was both nostalgic AND symbolic in SF. When we see it get blown to bits, at the end of the film, that was a definite allusion to a destruction of "old" Bond and "old ways." It worked.

    @TripAces But then, at the end, they bring the old office back? :-/

    As @RC7 says, it worked great in SF.

    SP then ripped it up, as it did to a lot that happened in the previous three films.



    boldfinger wrote: »
    Oh I see, that´s why they re-introduced the old M office at the end of SF, right?
    SF is a textbook example of pretentiousness.

    The old M office demonstrated that the old ways had indeed won out. It's why Silva died with a knife in his back.

    SF was a brilliant film. You say "pretentious," I say, "By far the most Intelligent Bond film ever made." I'm sorry you didn't appreciate it.

    There’s intelligence and then there’s “using lots of big words”, if you know what I mean? I put SF in the big words category. Literally, with its clunking references and not so subtle thematic sign posting.

    SF is frankly a dumb person’s idea of a clever movie.

    To @bondjames point about the DB5. I should have been clearer: the destruction of the car didn't mean Bond and "old ways" had been defeated; just that it suggested a cynical view of the past, of sentimental value (remember Mallory's line about sentimenality). the car's destruction represented one (dramatic) piece of an ongoing battle. I'll admit: seeing that car getting blown to bits tugged at me.
    Yeah. For me, the destruction of the car is in line with the fact Bond gets a mere gun and a radio from Q, the fact MI6 HQ gets blown up and they have to move to another place, the fact Q still has spots, the fact the villains are stated to be in the shadows, the fact the world "is not more transparent now, it's more opaque." Through all these things the film is saying the world has changed, and I think it aims to analyze or shine a light on what Bond is about in its essence, beyond all those secondary, transient, "sentimental" things. The explosion of the car is a way of getting a rise out of the audience (and Bond), but I think it's also meant to imply Bond the character and Bond the franchise can't expect to rely too much on it in the future. "Old dog, new tricks."

    I definitely don't see it as a mere fan service moment.

    @TripAces What I was trying to say about the office at the end is that to me, it goes against the "anti-sentimentality" theme of the film. If anything, it would've made more sense for the briefing scene to have taken place in the bunker or in an entirely new, different government building, not unlike Spectre's. Bond still being Bond, but in a "brave new world."

    I think that's what the movie is trying to convey. Having said all that, it seems to me Skyfall's deconstruction of Bond was perhaps ill-advised, at least in certain respects. The gadgets, the car, are all secondary things. We can have and in fact we've had films without gadgets and without cars before, but that doesn't mean they are not a big part of Bond. There is no need to "shed that skin." That skin is part of Bond, as Spectre demonstrates. Furthermore, both of Skyfall's predecessors, Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, had little in the way of gadgets, and nothing too extravagant in terms of cars, unlike say, The Spy Who Loved Me, so Skyfall's "anti-gadget" statement seems a tad... unnecessary.

    I admit I could be off-base here so I'd welcome any responses to these thoughts, whether here or in a more appropriate thread.

    Very well said. Agree on everything.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @mattjoes, re: the DB5, I think there are two elements to it in SF. There is the car itself, which as I said represents an anachronism, like Bond in the film. Something old in a new world, but not necessarily something bad (after all, it can't be tracked unlike the new cars).

    Then we have the gadgets in the car (which surprised me, because I thought this was Bond's personal car rather than office equipment up to this film), which cause trouble for Silva's crew and lead to it being destroyed (would they have bothered to destroy it if it had not been used as an offensive weapon I wonder?). So I don't see the destruction of the DB5 in SF as being symbolic of the end of something. Just a car which Bond (and the audience) have a connection to being destroyed. Not only a 'fan service' moment as I said earlier, but also an 'emotional' moment for both Bond and the audience. Sure, the car returned in SP, but since it was a 'company car' (as evidenced by the machinery) that wasn't really unexpected. After all, this isn't the first time a Bond car has been 'put back together' (e.g. FYEO Lotus, albeit with a new paint job).

    I believe the old look office in SF is very symbolic and a direct and obvious contrast to the excessive tech at the start of the film which despite all its fanciness resulted in Bond getting shot. It's deliberate to once again play into the old ways (and old agents) are best theme of the film, while also signifying the obvious connection with the older Bond films. So it serves two purposes.

    Anyway, that's how I see it but it's interesting that we can both have quite different perceptions of these things. That's the sign of an interesting film in my opinion.

    EDIT: Sorry for going off topic.
  • Posts: 1,680
    I think the next one we wont see Bond until 10-15 minutes into the film, Bond will be unveiled or "revealed"
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'd like that. It would make a change from the recent past, and be a throwback to some of the reveals from the earlier days.
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