No Time To Die: Production Diary

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  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    If not xXx, then similar films done in the same prospect had that influence on DAD. Yes, Austin Powers also played a part, but people here like to enlarge its role a bit too much and exaggerate its involvement with the impact left on Bond. It's the action-films with OTT flavours that did the trick for the most part, more than Austin Powers ever did. Yes, I dare say xXx also played a part.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    If not xXx, then similar films done in the same prospect had that influence on DAD. Yes, Austin Powers also played a part, but people here like to enlarge its role a bit too much and exaggerate its involvement with the impact left on Bond. It's the action-films with OTT flavours that did the trick for the most part, more than Austin Powers ever did. Yes, I dare say xXx also played a part.
    I honestly don't think that XXX played any part because it was released in the same year as DAD. The phenomenon of that time was Austin Powers, which was actually beating Bond at the box office in the US and rivalling it globally (an unheard of scenario). The only other franchise that was cleaning up at that time was Cruise's MI. Yes, the general tone was certainly lighter (until 9/11 changed things), but I can't remember any specific franchises other than those two that were making big money. Perhaps Lara Croft, Mummy and Rush Hour as well.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    If not xXx, then similar films done in the same prospect had that influence on DAD. Yes, Austin Powers also played a part, but people here like to enlarge its role a bit too much and exaggerate its involvement with the impact left on Bond. It's the action-films with OTT flavours that did the trick for the most part, more than Austin Powers ever did. Yes, I dare say xXx also played a part.
    I honestly don't think that XXX played any part because it was released in the same year as DAD. The phenomenon of that time was Austin Powers, which was actually beating Bond at the box office in the US and rivalling it globally (an unheard of scenario). The only other franchise that cleaning up at that time was Cruise's MI. Yes, the general tone was certainly lighter (until 911 changed things), but I can't remember any specific franchises other than those two that were making big money.
    Not franchises, but films. xXx may have been released the same year but it was shot largely in 2001 and even had an earlier release date as far as I remember reading before it got pushed back due to a fatal accident with a stuntman during the production. Word definitely got around of the film's style and they promoted it as "cooler than Bond" spy movie. There were several action films of the sort (and I dare say some of them being spy films) in the 90s and pre-9/11 early 2000s that the audience loved. DAD followed trends of action films, not solely Austin Powers.
  • I stand corrected on XXX. Thanks. But you can see that CGI wave going through films at the time. And there's noting wrong with it in the right amounts and the right execution. I didn't have an issue with the ending sequence on the plane as it fell apart but the wind sailing sequence was terrible (its inclusion in the film and its execution in CGI).

    I'd just like Bond to be the trendsetter again. The one everyone else wants to copy and does it so poorly in comparison. It can be done.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    If not xXx, then similar films done in the same prospect had that influence on DAD. Yes, Austin Powers also played a part, but people here like to enlarge its role a bit too much and exaggerate its involvement with the impact left on Bond. It's the action-films with OTT flavours that did the trick for the most part, more than Austin Powers ever did. Yes, I dare say xXx also played a part.
    I honestly don't think that XXX played any part because it was released in the same year as DAD. The phenomenon of that time was Austin Powers, which was actually beating Bond at the box office in the US and rivalling it globally (an unheard of scenario). The only other franchise that cleaning up at that time was Cruise's MI. Yes, the general tone was certainly lighter (until 911 changed things), but I can't remember any specific franchises other than those two that were making big money.
    Not franchises, but films. xXx may have been released the same year but it was shot largely in 2001 and even had an earlier release date as far as I remember reading before it got pushed back due to a fatal accident with a stuntman during the production. Word definitely got around of the film's style and they promoted it as "cooler than Bond" spy movie. There were several action films of the sort (and I dare say some of them being spy films) in the 90s and pre-9/11 early 2000s that the audience loved. DAD followed trends of action films, not solely Austin Powers.
    I agree that Austin Powers wasn't the sole influence. However, it was the most successful one by far, in addition to MI-2. There was no other franchise offering of that time that even came close to matching those two, except perhaps Rush Hour.

    I realize that people made comparisons between Cage and Bond when XXX came out, but I don't see any influence whatsoever. The characters are quite different and the stunts and concept behind DAD is more 'Bond' than 'XXX'. They just dialed everything up to parodic levels, including the characterizations and crude humour. I contend that this is more on account of Powers than XXX.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    If not xXx, then similar films done in the same prospect had that influence on DAD. Yes, Austin Powers also played a part, but people here like to enlarge its role a bit too much and exaggerate its involvement with the impact left on Bond. It's the action-films with OTT flavours that did the trick for the most part, more than Austin Powers ever did. Yes, I dare say xXx also played a part.
    I honestly don't think that XXX played any part because it was released in the same year as DAD. The phenomenon of that time was Austin Powers, which was actually beating Bond at the box office in the US and rivalling it globally (an unheard of scenario). The only other franchise that cleaning up at that time was Cruise's MI. Yes, the general tone was certainly lighter (until 911 changed things), but I can't remember any specific franchises other than those two that were making big money.
    Not franchises, but films. xXx may have been released the same year but it was shot largely in 2001 and even had an earlier release date as far as I remember reading before it got pushed back due to a fatal accident with a stuntman during the production. Word definitely got around of the film's style and they promoted it as "cooler than Bond" spy movie. There were several action films of the sort (and I dare say some of them being spy films) in the 90s and pre-9/11 early 2000s that the audience loved. DAD followed trends of action films, not solely Austin Powers.
    I agree that Austin Powers wasn't the sole influence. However, it was the most successful one by far, in addition to MI-2. There was no other franchise offering of that time that even came close to matching those two, except perhaps Rush Hour.

    I realize that people made comparisons between Cage and Bond when XXX came out, but I don't see any influence whatsoever. The characters are quite different and the stunts and concept behind DAD is more 'Bond' than 'XXX'. They just dialed everything up to parodic levels, including the characterizations and crude humour. I contend that this is more on account of Powers than XXX.
    But, there were no contender franchises back then, as that somewhat died down with the eighties until they were revived in the 2000s again. It was the general action films with lots of CGI and whatnot that were the cultural influences in cinema, back then. So, it's not a case of Mission: Impossible or Austin Powers alone. M:I even to a lesser extent than Powers. I'll even include The Matrix as an example. Its overuse of techno, "cool moments", "cool-looking characters" in leather and whatever, cameras closing in with speed then slowing down the motion, etc, you get my point. In result, DAD was an updated Derek Flint film with a lot of the 1960s Avengers-type spymania making into its heart and soul minus the comedy. Parodic it may have been, but not comedic.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    If not xXx, then similar films done in the same prospect had that influence on DAD. Yes, Austin Powers also played a part, but people here like to enlarge its role a bit too much and exaggerate its involvement with the impact left on Bond. It's the action-films with OTT flavours that did the trick for the most part, more than Austin Powers ever did. Yes, I dare say xXx also played a part.
    I honestly don't think that XXX played any part because it was released in the same year as DAD. The phenomenon of that time was Austin Powers, which was actually beating Bond at the box office in the US and rivalling it globally (an unheard of scenario). The only other franchise that cleaning up at that time was Cruise's MI. Yes, the general tone was certainly lighter (until 911 changed things), but I can't remember any specific franchises other than those two that were making big money.
    Not franchises, but films. xXx may have been released the same year but it was shot largely in 2001 and even had an earlier release date as far as I remember reading before it got pushed back due to a fatal accident with a stuntman during the production. Word definitely got around of the film's style and they promoted it as "cooler than Bond" spy movie. There were several action films of the sort (and I dare say some of them being spy films) in the 90s and pre-9/11 early 2000s that the audience loved. DAD followed trends of action films, not solely Austin Powers.
    I agree that Austin Powers wasn't the sole influence. However, it was the most successful one by far, in addition to MI-2. There was no other franchise offering of that time that even came close to matching those two, except perhaps Rush Hour.

    I realize that people made comparisons between Cage and Bond when XXX came out, but I don't see any influence whatsoever. The characters are quite different and the stunts and concept behind DAD is more 'Bond' than 'XXX'. They just dialed everything up to parodic levels, including the characterizations and crude humour. I contend that this is more on account of Powers than XXX.
    But, there were no contender franchises back then, as that somewhat died down with the eighties until they were revived in the 2000s again. It was the general action films with lots of CGI and whatnot that were the cultural influences in cinema, back then. So, it's not a case of Mission: Impossible or Austin Powers alone. M:I even to a lesser extent than Powers. I'll even include The Matrix as an example. Its overuse of techno, "cool moments", "cool-looking characters" in leather and whatever, cameras closing in with speed then slowing down the motion, etc, you get my point. In result, DAD was an updated Derek Flint film with a lot of the 1960s Avengers-type spymania making into its heart and soul minus the comedy. Parodic it may have been, but not comedic.
    I think we're in agreement. I'm not saying that the other series like Matrix and Rush Hour etc, didn't have an influence. DAD is still Bond first and foremost and that is its clearest influence.

    However, when I saw the film for the first time, the impact of Austin Powers was painfully clear to me in the cheesy childish humour and in the overly caricatured villains. It just wasn't dialled up to that degree.

    The same thing exists with QoS. I know some who don't agree, but the deliberate influence of Bourne grafted onto a Bond template was clearly apparent to me in 2008.

    I don't want to see 'Logan' obviously grafted onto a Bond template in 2019.
  • Posts: 9,846
    Hmm this might be true interesting
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited February 2018 Posts: 15,423
    Ah, now I get your point. No arguments from me on the crude and cheesy humour.

    I'll be the first to vocally speak that QoS was a Bourne ripoff. I remember reading a lot of MI6 articles back in the day when I newly discovered the Bond news site that QoS had a lot of following to do with Bourne. Heck, even they even hired the same second unit team, as far as I know.

    I'll also state that I don't want a Logan-type Bond film, either. Because, I'm fed up with the tragedy and drama seen in the Bond films.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    Well, if the Boyle/Hodge rumor is true, at least we might get some fresh blood in the screenwriting department.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I'm still curious to know if the distributor has to sign off on the script and director. I'm assuming that they do, given they are the ultimate financier.

    If that is the case, then is it not logical to assume that either 1) an existing (but not yet announced) distributor has ok'd this 'dueling' script idea, or else 2) a prospective distributor has actually asked for it prior to signing off on a much delayed deal?

    If it's the latter, things are much more 'up in the air' than we know.
  • mattjoesmattjoes Julie T. and the M.G.'s
    Posts: 7,021
    I'm curious about this as well.
  • tqbtqb
    Posts: 1,022
    Am I the only one who feels Danny Boyle's style isn't appropriate for Bond? His movies (that i've seen) have all been rather quirky visually (and editing). Bond is more traditional.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 3,164
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm still curious to know if the distributor has to sign off on the script and director. I'm assuming that they do, given they are the ultimate financier.

    If that is the case, then is it not logical to assume that either 1) an existing (but not yet announced) distributor has ok'd this 'dueling' script idea, or else 2) a prospective distributor has actually asked for it prior to signing off on a much delayed deal?

    If it's the latter, things are much more 'up in the air' than we know.

    I don’t think so. Even if like Sony, whoever distributes international and/or AP (everyone in the film press is assuming Annapurna is a done deal for US) contribute, most of the budget as well as decision making power is MGM/EON. So at this early stage, it’s completely down to them.

    If anything, the initial reports from yesterday seem to hint that it may have actually been at Annapurna’s encouraging that they are still pursuing big names for this instead of locking in Démange.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    antovolk wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm still curious to know if the distributor has to sign off on the script and director. I'm assuming that they do, given they are the ultimate financier.

    If that is the case, then is it not logical to assume that either 1) an existing (but not yet announced) distributor has ok'd this 'dueling' script idea, or else 2) a prospective distributor has actually asked for it prior to signing off on a much delayed deal?

    If it's the latter, things are much more 'up in the air' than we know.

    I don’t think so. Even if like Sony, whoever distributes international and/or AP (everyone in the film press is assuming Annapurna is a done deal for US) contribute, most of the budget as well as decision making power is MGM/EON. So at this early stage, it’s completely down to them.

    If anything, the initial reports from yesterday seem to hint that it may have actually been at Annapurna’s encouraging that they are still pursuing big names for this instead of locking in Démange.
    Thanks for that. This wasn't my previous understanding so I've learned something today. I was previously under the impression that the bulk of the production and marketing dollars came from the distributor. I was also previously under the impression that while EON/MGM have veto power, the distributor's signoff is critical, particularly given the work they have to do to get the film out there in the global markets which are an increasing component of the Bond revenue stream.

    RE: Annapurna potentially asking them to look for big names - yes, I made that out from yesterday's post too. I can't say I'm excited by the prospect of their increased involvement given their 'arty' predisposition to date, but it certainly will fit in with the Broccoli/Craig modus operandi. Honestly, they are going to need a big name director to get traction in the US market.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 3,164
    bondjames wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm still curious to know if the distributor has to sign off on the script and director. I'm assuming that they do, given they are the ultimate financier.

    If that is the case, then is it not logical to assume that either 1) an existing (but not yet announced) distributor has ok'd this 'dueling' script idea, or else 2) a prospective distributor has actually asked for it prior to signing off on a much delayed deal?

    If it's the latter, things are much more 'up in the air' than we know.

    I don’t think so. Even if like Sony, whoever distributes international and/or AP (everyone in the film press is assuming Annapurna is a done deal for US) contribute, most of the budget as well as decision making power is MGM/EON. So at this early stage, it’s completely down to them.

    If anything, the initial reports from yesterday seem to hint that it may have actually been at Annapurna’s encouraging that they are still pursuing big names for this instead of locking in Démange.
    Thanks for that. This wasn't my previous understanding so I've learned something today. I was previously under the impression that the bulk of the production and marketing dollars came from the distributor. I was also previously under the impression that while EON/MGM have veto power, the distributor's signoff is critical, particularly given the work they have to do to get the film out there in the global markets which are an increasing component of the Bond revenue stream.

    RE: Annapurna potentially asking them to look for big names - yes, I made that out from yesterday's post too. I can't say I'm excited by the prospect of their increased involvement given their 'arty' predisposition to date, but it certainly will fit in with the Broccoli/Craig modus operandi. Honestly, they are going to need a big name director to get traction in the US market.

    Marketing is always from the distributor, but the production budget is mostly MGM/EON, Sony contributed something like 25% of the budget on SF and SP so they had some input but very limited. In this way, Bond operates more like an independent film than a studio franchise (which is where obviously the majority of the budget is from the studio itself). And yeah, with Bond the distributor’s sign off is less crucial ultimately. It’s fully Barbara/MGW’s show.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    antovolk wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    antovolk wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'm still curious to know if the distributor has to sign off on the script and director. I'm assuming that they do, given they are the ultimate financier.

    If that is the case, then is it not logical to assume that either 1) an existing (but not yet announced) distributor has ok'd this 'dueling' script idea, or else 2) a prospective distributor has actually asked for it prior to signing off on a much delayed deal?

    If it's the latter, things are much more 'up in the air' than we know.

    I don’t think so. Even if like Sony, whoever distributes international and/or AP (everyone in the film press is assuming Annapurna is a done deal for US) contribute, most of the budget as well as decision making power is MGM/EON. So at this early stage, it’s completely down to them.

    If anything, the initial reports from yesterday seem to hint that it may have actually been at Annapurna’s encouraging that they are still pursuing big names for this instead of locking in Démange.
    Thanks for that. This wasn't my previous understanding so I've learned something today. I was previously under the impression that the bulk of the production and marketing dollars came from the distributor. I was also previously under the impression that while EON/MGM have veto power, the distributor's signoff is critical, particularly given the work they have to do to get the film out there in the global markets which are an increasing component of the Bond revenue stream.

    RE: Annapurna potentially asking them to look for big names - yes, I made that out from yesterday's post too. I can't say I'm excited by the prospect of their increased involvement given their 'arty' predisposition to date, but it certainly will fit in with the Broccoli/Craig modus operandi. Honestly, they are going to need a big name director to get traction in the US market.

    Marketing is always from the distributor, but the production budget is mostly MGM/EON, Sony contributed something like 25% of the budget on SF and SP so they had some input but very limited. In this way, Bond operates more like an independent film than a studio franchise (which is where obviously the majority of the budget is from the studio itself). And yeah, with Bond the distributor’s sign off is less crucial ultimately. It’s fully Barbara/MGW’s show.
    Thanks again. That explains a lot about what's been going (or not going) on actually.
  • Posts: 1,407
    Well we all wanted some news this week. This certainly qualifies. Very interesting. Even if P&W script turns out the winner because it's the better idea, I hope it wouldn't be judged as a "2nd choice" It should be an intriguing few months
  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    Posts: 3,277
    I'm sure Craig wouldn't sign on to do his final outing without having read a script and a director.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    I'm sure Craig wouldn't sign on to do his final outing without having read a script and a director.
    He claimed he signed on sometime in June (about two months prior to his announcement on Colbert). Your view would imply that they've had a director since at least then. P&W were officially hired in March. Is it plausible that they turned in a first draft by June that was sufficiently interesting to get Craig to come back? I'd say it's doubtful.
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    Did no one stop him or talk to him on the red carpet for the BAFTAS?
  • RC7RC7
    edited February 2018 Posts: 10,512
    It’s worth remembering Craig is likely co-producing again and for that reason it’s completely plausible that his signing on is on those terms as much as it is as an actor.

    There was likely an initial concept in place when he agreed, but since that point he will have been across the development process to a certain extent. For that reason a completed script was never a deal breaker in my mind. After all, he has significant purchase when it comes to the creative decision making - including script/director.

  • What on Earth were BB and MGW doing in the last 27 months?!?!

    Film Stars Don't Die in Liverpool (BB's "dream project"), Nancy, The Rhythm Section.

  • edited February 2018 Posts: 2,115
    //Marketing is always from the distributor, but the production budget is mostly MGM/EON, Sony contributed something like 25% of the budget on SF and SP //

    No. Sony contributed HALF of the production budget. It only got 25 percent of the profits.

    Also, Eon contributes nothing to the final production budget. It fronts money for scripts and other costs. But it's reimbursed by the releasing studios. Eon, in the end, plays with the money of other people (not a bad place to be).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2018 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    It’s worth remembering Craig is likely co-producing again and for that reason it’s completely plausible that his signing on is on those terms as much as it is as an actor.

    There was likely an initial concept in place when he agreed, but since that point he will have been across the development process to a certain extent. For that reason a completed script was never a deal breaker in my mind. After all, he has significant purchase when it comes to the creative decision making - including script/director.
    Yes, I had forgotten about that. Good points.
    Also, Eon contributes nothing to the final production budget. It fronts money for scripts and other costs. But it's reimbursed by the releasing studios. Eon, in the end, plays with the money of other people (not a bad place to be).
    All this plus decision control on Bond actor casting and retention? I can appreciate that some studios wouldn't be too keen on such an arrangement.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    It’s worth remembering Craig is likely co-producing again and for that reason it’s completely plausible that his signing on is on those terms as much as it is as an actor.

    There was likely an initial concept in place when he agreed, but since that point he will have been across the development process to a certain extent. For that reason a completed script was never a deal breaker in my mind. After all, he has significant purchase when it comes to the creative decision making - including script/director.
    Yes, I had forgotten about that. Good points.
    Also, Eon contributes nothing to the final production budget. It fronts money for scripts and other costs. But it's reimbursed by the releasing studios. Eon, in the end, plays with the money of other people (not a bad place to be).
    All this plus decision control on Bond actor casting and retention? I can appreciate that some studios wouldn't be too keen on such an arrangement.

    It's a high income, low profit proposition.

    When MGM was coming out of bankruptcy, Sony clearly was desperate to keep Bond. That's why it agreed to such a bad deal.

    Also, according to Michael G. Wilson (in that 2015 video that's been referenced multiple times in this thread), Eon really does the marketing. (Which probably explains this recurring talking point among Bond actresses about how their characters aren't like those bimbos in the old Bond films). So if you're the distributor, you're responsible for the marketing costs (on top of the production costs) but you're letting Eon do the work.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    When MGM was coming out of bankruptcy, Sony clearly was desperate to keep Bond. That's why it agreed to such a bad deal.
    I feel sorry for them, given the crap deal played out over two of the highest grossing films in the franchise's history.
    Also, according to Michael G. Wilson (in that 2015 video that's been referenced multiple times in this thread), Eon really does the marketing. (Which probably explains this recurring talking point among Bond actresses about how their characters aren't like those bimbos in the old Bond films). So if you're the distributor, you're responsible for the marketing costs (on top of the production costs) but you're letting Eon do the work.
    Ah, I see. I think it might be time to pass that marketing task onto someone else then because I haven't been all that impressed with these actresses parroting that line each time there's a new release. Quite frankly, they sound like bimbos themselves.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    bondjames wrote: »
    Ah, I see. I think it might be time to pass that marketing task onto someone else then because I haven't been all that impressed with these actresses parroting that line each time there's a new release. Quite frankly, they sound like bimbos themselves.
    +1. Well said.
  • As an aside, might be time to update the title of this thread.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 2,115
    Posted before, but posting again.

    About the 1:40 mark: Wilson says, "We pretty much run the marketing ourselves....We create it, they execute it."

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